Fewer But More Difficult Enemies.

[ClockworkSpectre]

I really would love to see some work in this game on making enemies smarter and a somewhat more difficult.  In exchange the number of enemies you, or you and your team, must face at the same time would be reduced.  Right now it only feels like a constant zerg rush of enemies, even against Grineer and Corpus.  It would be awesome to see both Grineer and Corpus use some real tactics or team work (I won't say Infested since they should be a relatively mindless horde anyway).  Yes, some of the enemies do use cover, but that is about it.  Maybe we could get buffed enemies both in their behavior and their stats but with a reduction in numbers to balance them out.  I do see one issue with this though, and that is ammo drops.  The quantity of ammo per pickup may need to be increased if this was done, that or the frequency of ammo drops would need to increased to compensate for needing more ammo to kill the more basic enemies.

[Zareek]

I'm all for smarter AI, and more difficult enemies. I just don't support the idea of less enemies.

[--Sokol]

Yes! Smarter and more difficult enemies (not more armor but more complexity to their behaviour and attacks- weapons as well) and less number.

[ClockworkSpectre]

I'm all for smarter AI, and more difficult enemies. I just don't support the idea of less enemies.

The reason I suggest less enemies is that Corpus and Grineer feel like fighting the Infested except they have firearms.  The Grineer are supposed to be a trained military force but they usually just rush to their deaths, or huddle together to get easily picked off as group.  The Corpus are supposed to be using intelligent machines to fight for them with the crew members as backup, right now they act more like cannon fodder.  These two factions should be more effective with fewer numbers, not mindless.

 

I would like to see the same thing done with infested but at the same time I also realize it makes more sense for them to be an unintelligent horde, but some more variety in infested enemy types would be nice.  The differences in the current infested enemies is very minor. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by ClockworkSpectre

[Chronodroid]

Smarter AI - all the way.

 

Best example is Grineer (they have the teleporting melees, grappling hooks, shield wielders, snipers, heavies and the standart cannonfodder).

Have never seen a sniper work together with a shield guy, or similar tactics, while it wouldn't be quite far to think of such a thing.

[Mak_Gohae]

I said a long time ago that i didnt want this game to turn into Dynasty Warrior and is basically getting to that point.... or i guess Gungrave but Gungrave was really fun... anyway, it's fine if the Infested just pours enemies at you but the when the other two faction do this it gets less fun because game does turn into an AOE 4th ability-fest. With less more difficult enemies maybe other attacks will get to shine a bit more.

[ClockworkSpectre]

I said a long time ago that i didnt want this game to turn into Dynasty Warrior and is basically getting to that point.... or i guess Gungrave but Gungrave was really fun... anyway, it's fine if the Infested just pours enemies at you but the when the other two faction do this it gets less fun because game does turn into an AOE 4th ability-fest. With less more difficult enemies maybe other attacks will get to shine a bit more.

LOL you are right, the comparison didn't occur to me but you are right, it is starting to feel like a Dynasty warriors type game.

[ClockworkSpectre]

I was thinking more about it, and I feel like the hordes from all factions just zerging players is contributing to the unbalance between the 'usefulness' of frames.  The more and more you see mass quantities of enemies the more likely people are to use frames with room clearing capability rather than more than frames like Ash and Loki.  If there were some changes to the behavior of the enemies and a decrease in numbers the viability of frames without large AOE wipe skills would be much better.  

 

So the more I think about it, the more I am seeing it as not only a challenge/fun issue, but an overall game balance issue.  I think it would allow for more varied teams without decreasing the challenge of the game. 

Edited August 2, 2013 by ClockworkSpectre

[direcyphre]

Not sure how much 'smarter' an AI can get. We are purposefully more powerful than your average Grineer or Corpus crewman. They have little more than guns and the occasional grenade with which than can shoot or throw at. The only real variety comes with Osprey since Shield Osprey will seek out groups and those corpus seem to stick together in a small enough group while the Osprey tries to give as many things shields as possible.

 

A sniper work with a shield grineer? Sounds nice and all, except if they are shooting at you, they aren't in cover and can be shot. There really aren't any combos they can pull off, and they already do their best to flank and control areas. The Grakata definitely makes them more difficult foes when there are a few shooting at the same time.

 

With the exceptions of some of their cover mechanics (taking cover inside a box rather than behind it), they seem to work effectively as cannon fodder attempting to take on a space ninja. The number of unit types have increased considerably over time, so there are even Grineer who toss little grinders that stick to you and explode, and those annoying harpoon grineer. Even bumping the old Sawman Grineer (who use prods now) to have shields.

[RX3_Zero]

Not sure how much 'smarter' an AI can get. We are purposefully more powerful than your average Grineer or Corpus crewman. They have little more than guns and the occasional grenade with which than can shoot or throw at. The only real variety comes with Osprey since Shield Osprey will seek out groups and those corpus seem to stick together in a small enough group while the Osprey tries to give as many things shields as possible.

 

A sniper work with a shield grineer? Sounds nice and all, except if they are shooting at you, they aren't in cover and can be shot. There really aren't any combos they can pull off, and they already do their best to flank and control areas. The Grakata definitely makes them more difficult foes when there are a few shooting at the same time.

 

With the exceptions of some of their cover mechanics (taking cover inside a box rather than behind it), they seem to work effectively as cannon fodder attempting to take on a space ninja. The number of unit types have increased considerably over time, so there are even Grineer who toss little grinders that stick to you and explode, and those annoying harpoon grineer. Even bumping the old Sawman Grineer (who use prods now) to have shields.

I agree,all faction have possibilities to work more tactically(less the infested,they only act like zergs).

We need more Raligun and fusion MOAS and Shiled Osprey working togheter shooting player form distance and staggering then(aways works to kill newbies).

More scorpions grabbing player closer to  Scorch soldiers,nalpam and heavygunners,more hunters, rollers and captains talking player from cover,etc.

My malevolent mind have lots of ideias,we could create a topic just for that!!

Edited August 2, 2013 by RX3_Zero

[MJ12]

I said a long time ago that i didnt want this game to turn into Dynasty Warrior and is basically getting to that point.... or i guess Gungrave but Gungrave was really fun... anyway, it's fine if the Infested just pours enemies at you but the when the other two faction do this it gets less fun because game does turn into an AOE 4th ability-fest. With less more difficult enemies maybe other attacks will get to shine a bit more.

 

Outside of Defense (which is not balanced at all because it basically craps all over the basic tenets of the game, i.e. fast-paced aggressive run and gun) plenty of other attacks get to shine even with the game being 'Dynasty Warrior'. It's not all that common that you have multiple bunched up hordes of weak enemies back-to-back perfect for an AoE '4th-ability fest'.

 

The large number of enemies is awesome and should not change.

[RX3_Zero]

Outside of Defense (which is not balanced at all because it basically craps all over the basic tenets of the game, i.e. fast-paced aggressive run and gun) plenty of other attacks get to shine even with the game being 'Dynasty Warrior'. It's not all that common that you have multiple bunched up hordes of weak enemies back-to-back perfect for an AoE '4th-ability fest'.

 

The large number of enemies is awesome and should not change.

Yes but we are not playing Dynasty Warriors,i never seen a cooperative fps without any strategie or tactics before.

The game ll' still need use dozens of enimies to kill you even with a better AI.

Edited August 3, 2013 by RX3_Zero