Sentients need to die

[ACULonSeer]

I find it ironic that these creatures called "sentients" are the dumbest enemies in the game. Hit registration issues, absurd damage output, and the ability to become immortal to ALL damage means if you dont jump through this one tiny hoop (the operator) you should just abort mission. 

Jeez, now i know why Excalibur has a "Sentient-Slayer" Skin, the only way to efficiently kill these stupid bugs is to radial blind then whale on them with DPS. 

I can tolerate Bombards. Im fine with the absurd tracking of enemy grappling hooks and the annoyance of being teleswapped, because ive always had opportunities to outplay those enemies that made the game entertaining. I have never had a single fun moment fighting a sentient, ever. In fact, i have more than a few horror stories about them. 

The first time you fight a sentient, you dont even have your operator yet. The only tool that can reset Sentient resistances. You dont have that yet. That means, inevitably, the sentient becomes immortal to all your damage and youre left spamming Oberon's Smite over and over while bulletjumping like a madman because its the only stupid attack which still manages to barely SCRATCH them. 

Oh and earlier today i found my least favorite attack in the entire game, and surprise surprise, it belongs to a Sentient: The stupid instakilling disco laser that covers the ENTIRE room. I was doing Lua mobile defense earlier, and within 30 seconds a Sentient disco-laser'd the defense objective, instantly killing it and making us fail. We went back in a second time, and lasted about 2 seconds longer. They ragequit immediately when i suggested a 3rd try. 

Sentients arent fun. Having all the hard work of modding weapons completely invalidated by one enemy is not fun. Being forced to kill an enemy that is COMPLETELY IMMORTAL TO ALL DAMAGE is not fun. Instantly losing a mission because of an absurd AOE-CC instakilling attack is not fun. I could make a whole other thread on even more reasons why these guys arent fun, but i think you get it by now.

Oh and i wont even bother replying to any "git gud" comments. this isnt about player skill, its about how player skill means nothing to these abominations. Theres no joy or invigoration when these guys die, just relief that you dont have to start the damn mission over a FOURTH time. Until these guys get a rework (knowing DE itll never happen in a reasonable timeframe) im not doing any more Lua missions. Im done. 

[Proslackernifty]

Sentients aren't immortal or immune to damage.  Same thing with the shadow stalker.  You need to use your operator for 3 seconds and go back to your frame.  I never had problems killing sentients, since the game tells you how to do it.

[ACULonSeer]

2 minutes ago, Proslackernifty said:

Sentients aren't immortal or immune to damage.  Same thing with the shadow stalker.  You need to use your operator for 3 seconds and go back to your frame.  I never had problems killing sentients, since the game tells you how to do it.

i do recall explaining that youre expected to kill them WITHOUT the operator in the first part of the quest. I can attest that they shrugged off everything i threw at them within about 30 seconds and forced me to use the bullet-jump-smite strategy. Also its not as if i even had time to OP during that mobile defense, the objective EVAPORATED in disco lasers.

The only reason i suggested that these guys need a rework instead of a complete removal is that yes, miraculously, the game actually did tell us something about how to kill them. For once. Which i guess technically makes them possible. But not really.

Edited December 27, 2017 by ACULonSeer

[o.0-]

Well, if you bring a diverse load from Primary to Secondary, you can melt them, due to how they appear on Lua. For the longest and before PoE, I'd carry a rainbow of Damage types with Chroma. I've also used Inaros.

Operators can reset their resistances somehow, so they are too easily cheesed now.

[Lukkiete]

10 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

Jeez, now i know why Excalibur has a "Sentient-Slayer" Skin, the only way to efficiently kill these stupid bugs is to radial blind then whale on them with DPS.

Then how about you follow your own advice and take Excal for this quest? I don't want to be rude or something, but I think you really need to git gud and idk, get some good equipment, good melee to deal DPS with, maybe?

Edit: As mentioned above, Chroma is also good dmg boost, and good tank with ice energy, build yourself for that :p

Edited December 27, 2017 by CephalonNiksyn

[Proslackernifty]

2 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

i do recall explaining that youre expected to kill them WITHOUT the operator in the first part of the quest. I can attest that they shrugged off everything i threw at them within about 30 seconds and forced me to use the bullet-jump-smite strategy. Also its not as if i even had time to OP during that mobile defense, the objective EVAPORATED in disco lasers.

For some reason I didn't have a problem with the first sentient... although I don't recall it very well.  I will admit that some of the games mechanics are very opaque, and players have to rely on the wiki or veteran players to accomplish tasks.  The sentients though? I just never thought it was a problem.  

[DirePresent]

Used to feel the same... I'm a Madurai user, and I used to wait till my 5th attack'd get ready, attack one sentient and then unleash the operator, attack again and run away... and eventually when you get better gear you don't even need neither to use the operator nor even to switch your weapon.

So I'd say it's not about 'giting gud' but about getting even better gear.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Alangme

[VoxGray]

Bring numerous damage types and you won't have that problem. Back when I did Second Dream for the first tine, I killed it with a freakin' Gammacor of all things. So yeah, "git gud," because this really is all on you. There are a good many ways around their resistances, and many more than there used to be at that. The fact that I, the guy who constantly rants about poor enemy design running rampant in Warframe, am telling you that the issue is on you and not the enemies, should really tell you something.

[ACULonSeer]

2 minutes ago, CephalonNiksyn said:

Then how about you follow your own advice and take Excal for this quest? I don't want to be rude or something, but I think you really need to git gud and idk, get some good equipment, good melee to deal DPS with, maybe?

Edit: As mentioned above, Chroma is also good dmg boost, and good tank with ice energy, build yourself for that :p

Funny that Excal, a beginner frame, is only accessible otherwise WAY into the starchart. I chose mag as a starter so im not so lucky in this department. Also dont have chroma yet, havent had time to go hunting for the other bps. Also, you can melee them? They fly around so fast though, how?

[Kjahla81]

What is your loadout? Are you using any pure elemental weapons? Also as long as the scouts don't see you they will not spawn in the troops.

[ACULonSeer]

4 minutes ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Well, if you bring a diverse load from Primary to Secondary, you can melt them, due to how they appear on Lua. For the longest and before PoE, I'd carry a rainbow of Damage types with Chroma. I've also used Inaros.

Operators can reset their resistances somehow, so they are too easily cheesed now.

What constitutes "diverse" here? I tried using a triple-element Hema and it barely tickled them. I would use my Kulstar but self damage would be absurd. 

[ACULonSeer]

4 minutes ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

Bring numerous damage types and you won't have that problem. Back when I did Second Dream for the first tine, I killed it with a freakin' Gammacor of all things. So yeah, "git gud," because this really is all on you. There are a good many ways around their resistances, and many more than there used to be at that. The fact that I, the guy who constantly rants about poor enemy design running rampant in Warframe, am telling you that the issue is on you and not the enemies, should really tell you something.

I would agree if we were talking about any other enemy, but with Sentients, i just cant ignore the total BS that is the very fabric of their being. Either theyre completely immortal to all attacks or you kill them instantaneously, neither of which is satisfying. The main nail in the coffin for Sentients imo is that they are in no way fun. None of their mechanics really challenge me, they just feel like safeguards against maiming strike. In their defense, i guess i got really good at bullet-jumping and ability spam from fighting them?

[Raspberry]

I totally agree with the first encounter with a Sentient in the Second Dream. What kind of MR 6 can bring 7+ different types of damage (IPS + 2 secondary elements + 2 primary elements) and still somehow NOT run out of ammo? The only trick I had at that time was to use Limbo and his Stasis + Cataclysm and just keep meleeing once I had run out of ammo. Except that without Energizing Dash, I had to wait a painful amount of time to get enough energy to recast Stasis + Cataclysm (with maxed Streamline, energy cost of 105, requiring 53 seconds between casts; without Continuity but with Constitution, I had to wait 20+ seconds in the Rift just doing absolutely nothing).

EDIT: To be honest, though, Sentients were only a problem without Operators. Fast-forward to my MR 16 self, and I can easily kill a Lua Sentient with just a dps Warframe like Titania in under 3 seconds.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Raspberri

[DirePresent]

4 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

I totally agree with the first encounter with a Sentient in the Second Dream. What kind of MR 6 can bring 7+ different types of damage (IPS + 2 secondary elements + 2 primary elements) and still somehow NOT run out of ammo? The only trick I had at that time was to use Limbo and his Stasis + Cataclysm and just keep meleeing once I had run out of ammo. Except that without Energizing Dash, I had to wait a painful amount of time to get enough energy to recast Stasis + Cataclysm (with maxed Streamline, energy cost of 105, requiring 53 seconds between casts; without Continuity but with Constitution, I had to wait 20+ seconds in the Rift just doing absolutely nothing).

Indeed, first battles against them were a pain in the &#!, I even was using Excal as the OP said and had a hard time anyway.

[o.0-]

15 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

What constitutes "diverse" here? I tried using a triple-element Hema and it barely tickled them. I would use my Kulstar but self damage would be absurd. 

For example, my tried and trusted Veykor smelter set; meaning that I have my V. Hek, V. Marelok with different combined elements. So one of my common solutions was to go Cold Corrosive on one build keep Radiation Toxic on the other. This spread then grants over bleed on Sentient resistances, so:

Puncture, Radiation, Toxic, Corrosive, Slash, Impact, Cold generally having my V.Hek lay down some hurt, watch the symbols and then bring the V.Marelok in for more minty justice (and yes I head canon mint in my powder).

Something like the Kulstar could mix in Blast as another damage type, but not something I often used though.

Plus, a frame like Chroma could stay close and could swap Toxic or Cold  to Viral and mix it up using a Cold or toxic Chroma, not to mention whatever I might have on my Ninkondi (yeah, I used that to go Sentient hunting often).

Edited December 27, 2017 by SPARTAN-187.Thanatos
gah, goofed

[ACULonSeer]

1 minute ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

For example, my tried and trusted Veykor smelter set; meaning that I have my V. Hek, V. Marelok with different combined elements. So one of my common solutions was to go Cold Corrosive on one build keep Radiation Toxic on the other. This spread then grants over bleed on Sentient resistances, so:

Puncture, Radiation, Toxic, Corrosive, Slash, Impact, Cold generally having my V.Hek lay down some hurt, watch the symbols and then bring the V.Marelok in for more minty justice (and yes I head canon mint in my powder).

Something like the Kulstar could mix in Blast as another damage type, but not something I often used though.

Plus, a frame like Chroma could stay close and could swap Toxic or Cold  to Viral and mix it up using a Cold or Viral Chroma, not to mention whatever I might have on my Ninkondi (yeah, I used that to go Sentient hunting often).

Jeez, the fact that im having a hard time comprehending this even when its written in perfect english just adds onto my dislike of sentients. So basically even 3 elements on one weapon wont cut it, is what im gathering from this.

[o.0-]

8 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

Jeez, the fact that im having a hard time comprehending this even when its written in perfect english just adds onto my dislike of sentients. So basically even 3 elements on one weapon wont cut it, is what im gathering from this.

Ok, so Sentients, once they show a damage symbol on their over head Icon, they are showing their resistance to those damage types.

So a players needs to see the symbol and then swap to another mix to do full damage for unlisted damage types, otherwise damage is being reduced on the seen symbols.

So there can be outliers with Crit builds that can still do insane enough damage through their resistance.

Although Operators can erase those Resistances, we can still bring more damage types that can overcome their capability to resist damage, thus how a combo like the V.Hek and Marelok work well together having three base types and can each add two each, meaning a total of seven can be brought to bare, thus a rainbow.

Hope this is making sense.

Edited December 27, 2017 by SPARTAN-187.Thanatos
need another beer

[ACULonSeer]

1 minute ago, SPARTAN-187.Thanatos said:

Ok, so Sentients, once they show a damage symbol on their over head Icon, they are show their resistance to those damage types.

So a players needs to see the symbol and then swap to another mix to do full damage for unlisted damage types, otherwise damage is being reduced.

So there can be outliers with Crit builds that can still do insane enough damage through their resistance.

Although Operators can erase those Resistances, we can still bring more damage types that can overcome their capability to resist damage, thus how a combo like the V.Hek and Marelok work well together having three base types and can each add two each, meaning a total of seven can be brought to bare, thus a rainbow.

Hope this is making sense.

eugh thanks for the advice, but im perfectly content avoiding them at all costs. 

[Snorvyn]

7 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

Jeez, the fact that im having a hard time comprehending this even when its written in perfect english just adds onto my dislike of sentients. So basically even 3 elements on one weapon wont cut it, is what im gathering from this.

almost. sentient can adapt to 5 or max 6 damage types i believe. and if you can do Huge amount of damage in 1 hit the number would decrease. 
because it is adapting every time his health drops below certain %. and if lets say you remove half of its hp with 1 hit, then he will adapt to 1 damage type instead of 3 which would be if you remove half of his health slowly.
With operator as many suggested it is trivial task to kill a sentient. 
and without operator it is hard but never impossible if you have 3 weapons at your disposal and you would take your time to mod them for different damage types. (you can have 3 physical + 6 elemental  (7 sometimes) damage types throughout your 3 weapons). so you have a legit chance of killing it.
and also when you do Lua missions, you most likely should already have your operator with you so no need to complain. its the part of gameplay.

[o.0-]

1 minute ago, ACULonSeer said:

eugh thanks for the advice, but im perfectly content avoiding them at all costs. 

I get that. The process is simple though once you get the pattern down, for example,

V. Hek - damage listed from highest to lowest on average on builds (builds vary and I'm not in-game right now):

• Radiation [1]
• Puncture [2]
• Toxic [3]
• Impact [4]
• Slash

The Sentient could be come resistant to the first four, if I lose track and or/have a group also using their weapons and abilities, with different mixes (so even a Gas Magnetic could even work!!!).

Then I pull out my V.Marelok

• Corrosive
• Impact [4]
• Cold
• Puncture [2]
• Slash

What this means that in this case, the Sentient now is able to resist Radiation, Puncture, Toxic and Impact as its four. Therefore, Corrosive, Cold, Slash and any other damage types continue to do full damage.

And this is from only looking at a few sources, if there is an Ember, Hydroid, Frost, Saryn, then the Sentient limits could be reached faster and other types could work well.

The other factor to keep in mind in situations other than 4xCP,  is that Ferrite than Robotic, so I'd look to save Corrosive as the very last damage I get on the enemy without that mix and have Electricity as the very last with 4xCP.

[ACULonSeer]

10 minutes ago, Igni said:

almost. sentient can adapt to 5 or max 6 damage types i believe. and if you can do Huge amount of damage in 1 hit the number would decrease. 
because it is adapting every time his health drops below certain %. and if lets say you remove half of its hp with 1 hit, then he will adapt to 1 damage type instead of 3 which would be if you remove half of his health slowly.
With operator as many suggested it is trivial task to kill a sentient. 
and without operator it is hard but never impossible if you have 3 weapons at your disposal and you would take your time to mod them for different damage types. (you can have 3 physical + 6 elemental  (7 sometimes) damage types throughout your 3 weapons). so you have a legit chance of killing it.
and also when you do Lua missions, you most likely should already have your operator with you so no need to complain. its the part of gameplay.

i mean, having to pay for warframe slots because you actually want some early-game variety is "part of the gameplay", doesnt mean its acceptable. Just cause a system has been in place for X years doesnt mean it works, Warframe has definitely proven that. I just think the enemies dont need to be as min-maxy as Nekros with Maiming Strike. 

[Snorvyn]

4 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

i mean, having to pay for warframe slots because you actually want some early-game variety is "part of the gameplay", doesnt mean its acceptable. Just cause a system has been in place for X years doesnt mean it works, Warframe has definitely proven that. I just think the enemies dont need to be as min-maxy as Nekros with Maiming Strike. 

i dont know man. i explained that killing them might be challenging but still quite possible for player who already has access to Lua. if you think its too hard for you, just dont do it. Dont just bash enemies that are actually the only type that is challenging to fight. When lvl 5 grineer lancer attacks me and i can probably kill it by only using bullet jump, that is stupid by them. When a sentient attacks me with a legit chance of bringing me down if i am not careful and prepared that is the true combat and i like it. Only thing i would like is just a little more advice/tutorial kind of thing for players who are new to this and dont know how to google to get the info they need. otherwise its pretty good fight. 

And about paying for warframe slots. That mechanics is good. You get 3 slots off the start to try out 3 things. after that you decide. you either pay $ for plat or you farm ingame to trade for plat. that is the whole point of Free-to-play game. De offers you choice. your $ or your time. you decide. if you want free slots, then how exactly DE would get their money to continue working on this game??
F2P system was way worse before and you may not know about the details. you could google about it and see how much it has improved in all this time. ;)

[ACULonSeer]

3 minutes ago, Igni said:

i dont know man. i explained that killing them might be challenging but still quite possible for player who already has access to Lua. if you think its too hard for you, just dont do it. Dont just bash enemies that are actually the only type that is challenging to fight. When lvl 5 grineer lancer attacks me and i can probably kill it by only using bullet jump, that is stupid by them. When a sentient attacks me with a legit chance of bringing me down if i am not careful and prepared that is the true combat and i like it. Only thing i would like is just a little more advice/tutorial kind of thing for players who are new to this and dont know how to google to get the info they need. otherwise its pretty good fight. 

And about paying for warframe slots. That mechanics is good. You get 3 slots off the start to try out 3 things. after that you decide. you either pay $ for plat or you farm ingame to trade for plat. that is the whole point of Free-to-play game. De offers you choice. your $ or your time. you decide. if you want free slots, then how exactly DE would get their money to continue working on this game??
F2P system was way worse before and you may not know about the details. you could google about it and see how much it has improved in all this time. ;)

As i recall you only get 2 slots, and that includes the one for your STARTER frame. Also trust me, DE doesnt have to force me to pay. I spent a TOOOOON of money on skins and cosmetics already, to the point where i might need to go to plat-a-holics anonymous. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by ACULonSeer

[Xaero]

OP was teleported from a different Universe. Sentients there are invulnerable to all damage while grineer commanders are fun enemies and their switch teleport can totally be countered.

[Raspberry]

9 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

OP was teleported from a different Universe. Sentients there are invulnerable to all damage while grineer commanders are fun enemies and their switch teleport can totally be countered.

Grineer Commanders, probably another forgotten part of the game. All DE has to do is remove loss of Warframe control during a Switch Teleport, that's all we f**king want!