Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 i didnt say the second quote. dont be twisting other words for other people 24 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said: In the biz we call this 'two different playstyles'. I find the new petrify to be useful did not feel that way about the old petrify. Also no idea why one would use petrify entering a room when Atlas can just melee through the breach. You can be right about your narrow playstyle and wrong about the full capabilities of a frame simuntaneously Im using Atlus right now and his performance is better as a whole with these changes and his 3 is a bit more satisfying and fluid. I used my play style in sorties all the time and it seems better even for high end so i dont see the problem other then you need to update your style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Zeclem said: and it doesnt do that instantly now how exactly? cus it does. and it makes them take more damage from landslide. his "real cc" was a joke, and how he got changed for much better. also i like how you conveniently forget the healing it provides. hell no that thing was anything but instant petrify. on anything. if "instant" means about a year and a half to you yes, i agree. otherwise no. youre not the only one who played atlas before rework. i didn't say he didn't do it instantly, i said that its too expensive and it turned into his new 1. Its spammy, cheesy, and boring. i forgot about the healing it provides because its pointless, why heal 50-75 health if it just gets taken away in one shot and doesn't do anything for your bonus armor. and for low level enemies with decent power strength it was practically instant, larger enemies like gunners and bombards, sure they never got petrified but they would be stunned for 3 seconds after you stopped targeting them with your ability, it was a CC, it CC's better now but at too great a cost. stop acting like this new rework was perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTitan123 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, BansheePrime said: I don't understand why people are so damn happy with Petrify having a massively reduced cone and massively increased energy cost just because it petrifies instantly now. Did anyone actualy play him before this garbage? Yes. Yes we did. He’s a lot better than he was before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: i didn't say he didn't do it instantly, i said that its too expensive and it turned into his new 1. Its spammy, cheesy, and boring. i forgot about the healing it provides because its pointless, why heal 50-75 health if it just gets taken away in one shot and doesn't do anything for your bonus armor. and for low level enemies with decent power strength it was practically instant, larger enemies like gunners and bombards, sure they never got petrified but they would be stunned for 3 seconds after you stopped targeting them with your ability, it was a CC, it CC's better now but at too great a cost. stop acting like this new rework was perfect. its not expensive at all, considering how it works now. if you find it boring to have a frame that has functioning skills, fine. but that does not make you right about the changes making him objectively far more powerful. the healing it provides is far from pointless. AND it actually DOES add bonus armor. did you even see the rework? yeah low level enemies were the focal point of balance in this game. oh wait they werent. and 3 seconds is close to nothing compared to now. perfect is a very strong word, and none of us acting like it was perfect. but resonable people can easily see that he is way more powerful than he ever was in any way. that is a fact, not anybodies subjective opinion. Edited February 12, 2018 by Zeclem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, Zeclem said: its not expensive at all, considering how it works now. if you find it boring to have a frame that has functioning skills, fine. but that does not make you right about the changes making him objectively far more powerful. the healing it provides is far from pointless. AND it actually DOES add bonus armor. did you even see the rework? yeah low level enemies were the focal point of balance in this game. oh wait they werent. and 3 seconds is close to nothing compared to now. dude, 75 energy for the basis of the rubble mechanic, how fast it drains, if you're missing any health it adds 0 armor, and by low level i meant low tier, lancers, crewman, and butchers; even on higher levels they would be petrified almost instantly, if not at least in the same 1 second as the casting window for new petrify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 cmon, give me numbers, give me something aside from nu ur rong! git gud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: i didn't say he didn't do it instantly, i said that its too expensive and it turned into his new 1. Its spammy, cheesy, and boring. i forgot about the healing it provides because its pointless, why heal 50-75 health if it just gets taken away in one shot and doesn't do anything for your bonus armor. and for low level enemies with decent power strength it was practically instant, larger enemies like gunners and bombards, sure they never got petrified but they would be stunned for 3 seconds after you stopped targeting them with your ability, it was a CC, it CC's better now but at too great a cost. stop acting like this new rework was perfect. Killing all petrified enemies heals and if your full hp it then provides 75 bonus armor compared to 50 normally. Thus giving you 7.5 seconds of bonus armor time compared to 5 seconds from non petrify enemies. If you continues to bulldoze enemies you can get 1.5K bonus armor on top of your nearly 1.1k armor. Thats 2.6K armor potential and its substantial when compared to normal frames taking a light peppering of fire on high level. At least thats what i was seeing from videos and testing. Also pairing pertify and Land Slide looks to give 150 armor as a bonus at full hp (15 seconds). He is set up great for a snowball type play style and you just have to keep rolling out the punishment another good thing his passive is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Zamiake said: Killing all petrified enemies heals and if your full hp it then provides 75 bonus armor compared to 50 normally. Thus giving you 7.5 seconds of bonus armor time compared to 5 seconds from non petrify enemies. If you continues to bulldoze enemies you can get 1.5K bonus armor on top of your nearly 1.1k armor. Thats 2.6K armor potential and its substantial when compared to normal frames taking a light peppering of fire on high level. At least thats what i was seeing from videos and testing. Also pairing pertify and Land Slide looks to give 150 armor as a bonus at full hp (15 seconds). He is set up great for a snowball type play style and you just have to keep rolling out the punishment another good thing his passive is what it is nice numbers but no math, let me help you. using the base armor of 1.1k: 1100/1400=78.6% damage reduction base armor of 1.1k +1.5k cap of rubble (2.6k): 2600/2900=89.7% damage reduction congratulations you just snowballed all the way up to 11.1% less damage taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: dude, 75 energy for the basis of the rubble mechanic, how fast it drains, if you're missing any health it adds 0 armor, and by low level i meant low tier, lancers, crewman, and butchers; even on higher levels they would be petrified almost instantly, if not at least in the same 1 second as the casting window for new petrify. "...almost instantly" IF anything within a second or 2 of channeling is enough to kill or moderate to severe damage in high level or break shields on atlus. The point is not to lose your shields so you can snow ball atlus up and build his defences. Face tanking isnt a good idea unless you got a trinity watching your back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zamiake said: "...almost instantly" IF anything within a second or 2 of channeling is enough to kill or moderate to severe damage in high level or break shields on atlus. The point is not to lose your shields so you can snow ball atlus up and build his defences. Face tanking isnt a good idea unless you got a trinity watching your back Face tanking is the entire idea of a brawler! Brawlers are supposed to be in the enemies face! Brawlers are supposed to take damage! Brawlers are supposed to mitigate damage taken! and if anyone says that he's not a brawler, look at the wiki: "Atlas was originally developed under the name Brawler and is still referred to as as such internally in the game files." Edited February 12, 2018 by StanleyStanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, StanleyStanson said: nice numbers but no math, let me help you. using the base armor of 1.1k: 1100/1400=78.6% damage reduction base armor of 1.1k +1.5k cap of rubble (2.6k): 2600/2900=89.7% damage reduction congratulations you just snowballed all the way up to 11.1% less damage taken Regardless thats alot more reduction Period. You may want to be right but im sorry you just arent and its a great rework Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, Zamiake said: Regardless thats alot more reduction Period. You may want to be right but im sorry you just arent and its a great rework alright my dude have fun playing anyone other than atlas in a weeks time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: dude, 75 energy for the basis of the rubble mechanic, how fast it drains, if you're missing any health it adds 0 armor, and by low level i meant low tier, lancers, crewman, and butchers; even on higher levels they would be petrified almost instantly, if not at least in the same 1 second as the casting window for new petrify. 75 energy for a wide and instant cc that provides healing and bonus damage is more than fair. and if youre missing health it adds to, guess what, health. the thing that you supposed to keep up to actually survive. the armor drain is very much manageable, and those smaller units on any relevant level, are a no threat. and even those arent instant. pls stop using that word for you clearly dont know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Zeclem said: 75 energy for a wide and instant cc that provides healing and bonus damage is more than fair. and if youre missing health it adds to, guess what, health. the thing that you supposed to keep up to actually survive. the armor drain is very much manageable, and those smaller units on any relevant level, are a no threat. and even those arent instant. pls stop using that word for you clearly dont know what it is. you act like petrify is an end all be all, but it still suffers from the original problem of people at range, on higher difficulties they'll just chip down your health while in the 1 second casting animation so all the rubble you pick up from the petrified enemies are health with no armor gain. stop questioning my intelligence when you cant even formulate definitive and effective rebuttals. also health was never an issue with Atlas, just like any other frame with out a healing mechanic use hirudo, lifesteal furis, or lifestrike; a healing mechanic was far from needed on Atlas. Edited February 12, 2018 by StanleyStanson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: nice numbers but no math, let me help you. using the base armor of 1.1k: 1100/1400=78.6% damage reduction base armor of 1.1k +1.5k cap of rubble (2.6k): 2600/2900=89.7% damage reduction congratulations you just snowballed all the way up to 11.1% less damage taken Steel Fiber + Armored agility 1147.5 = 79%. [75% without armored agility] + 1500 rubble buff 2647.5 = 90% [rounder from [89.8] [ 0.89% without armored agility. Don't just take that 11% difference [with AA on] an scoff at it before you check to see how it actually can affect damage taken. Let's say an enemy hits once for 500 damage. Without rubble, that would be 105 damage, with it only 50. That'a a 2.1x less damage taken. Now if an enemy does 900 damage, it would be 189 without and 90 with. Again, a 2.1x less damage taken. No matter how much damage an enemy does, you will always take 2.1x less damage than you would without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: Face tanking is the entire idea of a brawler! Brawlers are supposed to be in the enemies face! Brawlers are supposed to take damage! Brawlers are supposed to mitigate damage taken! Atlus can do some face tanking yes, but the problem is that is not how he functions 100%. Atlus isnt a pure tank like rhino he cant just stand some there and not die. The whole idea of the mechanics on that recognize that they want him to be tankier, but not indestructible like rhino with iron skin. Even before rework i was using him to get difficult revives but only in spurts of when i could. This extra armor buff is to help in those times when you really need to take a bit more damage. You have to use it with a modest amount of responsibility. Not get mad over the fact he is different then you want him to be. WF is always gonna change and you just gotta take that into account. He is a Support/Tank. Look at what his skills. Rock golems, Walls, Hard Targeted CC, and one offencive attack skill. If he was a pure tank all his skills would basically would be offensive skills, aoe cc skills, and buff/s with a strong self effecting defense buff; traditionally to many genre. What we see in atlus is a strong external defensive skill in the form of his wall that everyone can use defensively. He has a now very strong, but targeted cc skill. And he has fighting minions that do some damage and draw aggro pretty effectively. Screams support tank to me and using him along those lines is very helpful for everyone involved. Seriously try him coming at it in that frame of thought. I dont know where your getting brawler from, but if you played games from the 90's and before it would be much easier to categorize things. Last i have seen brawlers should be rather balanced while being able to take a some hits. But compared to atlus's defencive centered kit he is a Support tank if i was to take into account just how the frame preforms when being hit by damage then yes he is a brawler, but when you look at his skill kit it changes imo. Edited February 12, 2018 by Zamiake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: Face tanking is the entire idea of a brawler! Brawlers are supposed to be in the enemies face! Brawlers are supposed to take damage! Brawlers are supposed to mitigate damage taken! and if anyone says that he's not a brawler, look at the wiki: "Atlas was originally developed under the name Brawler and is still referred to as as such internally in the game files." Facetanking is what a tank does. A brawler just gets in to deal a lot of damage and just generally mix it up with some survivability. Atlas is a Brawler not a tank. You can say they're similar but they're not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Zeclem said: 75 energy for a wide and instant cc that provides healing and bonus damage is more than fair. and if youre missing health it adds to, guess what, health. the thing that you supposed to keep up to actually survive. the armor drain is very much manageable, and those smaller units on any relevant level, are a no threat. and even those arent instant. pls stop using that word for you clearly dont know what it is. Lol i must hire you as a translator to simplify what i say lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Btw do people know if rubble armor is calculated into his Tectonics and Rumblers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeclem Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: you act like petrify is an end all be all, but it still suffers from the original problem of people at range, on higher difficulties they'll just chip down your health while in the 1 second casting animation so all the rubble you pick up from the petrified enemies are health with no armor gain. stop questioning my intelligence when you cant even formulate definitive and effective rebuttals. also health was never an issue with Atlas, just like any other frame with out a healing mechanic use hirudo, lifesteal furis, or lifestrike; a healing mechanic was far from needed on Atlas. it suffers far less from range cus it instantly petrifies ALL in its range instead of slowing at range. and ive never said anything like "petrify is the best skill evur". stop being assumptious. a healing mechanic is never needed on anybody, but it is always great to have cus not everybody likes being locked to a few weapons in game or losing a modspace on melee weapons over it. @Zamiakefunny, cus i am actually studying to be an interpretor lol. Edited February 12, 2018 by Zeclem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 All I'm trying to say is that rubble is an underwhelming and unfulfilling mechanic that isn't honestly worth the time to keep it up, he still suffers from a lot of the problems he had before being the lack of synergies and one ability clearly outclassing the rest. I want Atlas to be good, not in an overpowered way. I just feel like the community had a wealth of different ideas that would have been much more effective. I dare you to look through the community forums and find one person that offered "rubble" as a mechanic idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said: Btw do people know if rubble armor is calculated into his Tectonics and Rumblers? Doesnt look like it effects it, but it could possibly effect it at the time of casting not too sure. We would have to ask DE for a disclosure im betting. Dont think it would be referable in game with solid numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, StanleyStanson said: All I'm trying to say is that rubble is an underwhelming and unfulfilling mechanic that isn't honestly worth the time to keep it up, he still suffers from a lot of the problems he had before being the lack of synergies and one ability clearly outclassing the rest. I want Atlas to be good, not in an overpowered way. I just feel like the community had a wealth of different ideas that would have been much more effective. I dare you to look through the community forums and find one person that offered "rubble" as a mechanic idea. Hold that thought im actually gonna go look it up in that achieved Design Council page on his rework. Its only avalible to Master or Grand Master founders like myself. I bet its there some where lol Edited February 12, 2018 by Zamiake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamiake Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Meh no dice must have been an internal decision to rework him that way. You can still brawl with atlus and his syncs well with his skills to do that, but its best to do it smartly and build your defenses to handle that specially in high lvl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleyStanson Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 the design council sounds like a cool idea, it would be nice if everyone could see it even if only founders and chosen could vote on it, but i don't mind, founders deserve what they have for taking the chance on the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now