Burst-Fire Recoil

[Ganpot]

Why are the burst-fire weapons so hard to aim with?  The recoil between shots makes it almost impossible to hit targets' weakspots at medium range with all the bullets, even if the player has good aim.  At longer ranges, you're lucky to hit the target with more than 1/2 of the bullets at all.  This means you end up wasting time and half of your ammo pool. 

 

The irony is that the Sicarus (the worst burst-weapon in the game due to a 3 shot burst) actually says that it provides a balance between accuracy and lethality.  If DE wants that description to be true, they need to overhaul the weapon. 

 

I propose a rework of the recoil system for burst-fire weapons.  These weapons should only have recoil between individual bursts, not in-between single bullets.  That way, these weapons remain more accurate than full-automatics, but less accurate than semi-automatics. 

[AscendantWyvern]

I agree, if not to add a bit more viability to burst weapons, than to simply break a development meta that has existed in gaming for WAY too long.

 

Somewhere, someone along the line to games decided that all burst weapons need to have more recoil than their automatic counterparts. Even though the whole reason for Burst settings is to help moderate accuracy and recoil.

 

Their logic was questionable, but their effect was permanent.

 

And it needs to change.

[Xylia]

Why are the burst-fire weapons so hard to aim with?  The recoil between shots makes it almost impossible to hit targets' weakspots at medium range with all the bullets, even if the player has good aim.  At longer ranges, you're lucky to hit the target with more than 1/2 of the bullets at all.  This means you end up wasting time and half of your ammo pool. 

 

The irony is that the Sicarus (the worst burst-weapon in the game due to a 3 shot burst) actually says that it provides a balance between accuracy and lethality.  If DE wants that description to be true, they need to overhaul the weapon. 

 

I propose a rework of the recoil system for burst-fire weapons.  These weapons should only have recoil between individual bursts, not in-between single bullets.  That way, these weapons remain more accurate than full-automatics, but less accurate than semi-automatics. 

 

The Burston would actually be a good weapon if you could just aim with the stinking thing.

 

I mean, wtf?

 

I can take my Braton out, and fire 2-4 shot bursts and hit a grineer in the head from clear across the largest rooms the Galleons have to offer. The recoil is very small, and non-existent.

 

I take a Burston and try shooting a Grineer in the head from 20 feet away and at least one of the shots end up in the wall behind him.

 

Seriously.

 

Why can I sniper with a Braton, but the Burston nearly flies out of my hands each burst?

 

I've shot Corpus Moas from clear across an open outpost area, some 200 yards away with a Braton, even. 2-4 shot bursts.

 

Try that with a Burston........

Edited August 6, 2013 by Xylia

[tsubasakuroi]

inb4pulldownonmouseposts

 

inb4skillbasedweapon

 

Still find it hilariously backwards that I can dump the entire magazine of my Braton/Braton Prime. Just bullet spread. Maybe the Braton series have some anti-recoil system running off of black magic.

 

Single pull of the trigger on the Burston/Sicarus/Kraken and suddenly it seems Tenno are generally incapable of controlling that

[Aure7]

Bought burston for it's "accurity" which was not even there when I used it. It kinda works like a shotgun now, dealing large damage over tiny split-second but is terribly bad at medium or longer range.

[eStecko]

After playing CS, actual recoil control is no problem for me. Its only about getting used to "working" with the weapon's recoil and pulling your mouse down.

 

- Happy Burston User

[Aure7]

After playing CS, actual recoil control is no problem for me. Its only about getting used to "working" with the weapon's recoil and pulling your mouse down.

 

- Happy Burston User

well yeah but someone above made a perfect example. That burston somehow manages to stay still.

[Paradoxbomb]

I personally never had much of an issue with the recoil (Sicarus is one of my favorite sidearms) but I see your point. It makes no sense for a weapon like the Burstron, that's supposed to be an accurate alternative to a full auto weapon somehow be less accurate. So +1.

 

 

P.S.: I take it were not even gonna bother discussing the whole frame-rate/semi-auto issue?

Edited August 6, 2013 by Paradoxbomb

[Egg_Chen]

I can compensate for it, and I do love my Burston... but I love my Braton just a little bit more at long range.

 

I agree the logic makes no sense compared to the Braton, even more so when you compare it to the Grakata.

Now that jumps up wickedly with the first few rounds, but you hold the trigger down and it jumps back down after a bit, negative recoil :)

 

+ 1, but I can live with it if nothing changes!

Edited August 6, 2013 by Egg_Chen

[LazyKnight]

I just start got a new burston because I wanted to see the buff it received. I had one before but sold it to make room for a latron or something.

 

I think the issue is not recoil but fire rate interval of the 3 shot bust. If the 2nd and 3rd bullet left the chamber quicker the bullets might end up hitting the same body part.

[cary2010haha]

Try vasto/grakata and you'll know burston's recoil is "user friendly" already.

 

Edited August 6, 2013 by Cary2010haha

[Sellardohr]

Completely happy with my Burston. It's my absolute favorite weapon, in fact, and has been for the last 50 hours or so of gameplay. Mouse drag-down is a technique, and once you learn it, the Burston out-performs both the Latron and the Braton in their own fields.

[Ganpot]

Completely happy with my Burston. It's my absolute favorite weapon, in fact, and has been for the last 50 hours or so of gameplay. Mouse drag-down is a technique, and once you learn it, the Burston out-performs both the Latron and the Braton in their own fields.

 

You're saying you find nothing odd about the Braton being much harder to use at long range than the Braton?  Or even the Grakata? 

[Xylia]

Completely happy with my Burston. It's my absolute favorite weapon, in fact, and has been for the last 50 hours or so of gameplay. Mouse drag-down is a technique, and once you learn it, the Burston out-performs both the Latron and the Braton in their own fields.

 

I wanna see a video of you shooting a corpus moa from 200 yards away in an Outpost Area with a Burston and get more than 1 bullet to hit. lol.

 

Meanwhile I'll be over here landing 80% of my shots with my Braton.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Ugh... Some people like me love these mechanics, some hate them. As I've said before, just add in a couple new burst weapons with slightly lower DPS and delayed recoil. Let people choose whether to use mouse drag or not.  Heck, make it purchasable with credits or a skin.  I don't particularly care.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Grandarex]

Yeah... It would be nice if the recoil hits after the 3 bullets fire, not in the middle of it.

[Xylia]

Yeah... It would be nice if the recoil hits after the 3 bullets fire, not in the middle of it.

 

Or, Yaknow, make the recoil about the same as comparable full-auto weapons?

 

Why can I fire 2-4 shots (its hard to get exactly 3) from a Braton and get much less recoil than firing 1 Burston Burst?

 

And the Kraken... lol the Kraken. Way too much recoil to actually make this a decent weapon.

 

Woulda been a lot better if they made the Recoil happen after the 2nd shot or something...

[NoDisco]

Well there are real life burst guns that recoil after second or third shot so it is fair to expect burst wepons in the game to work on the same principles OR AT LEAST appearance of a mod that will reduce recoil - i think it will be popular.

[Sellardohr]

Considering the per-shot damage of the Burston is 50% higher, I kind of figured that it modeled a higher caliber weapon. Then having higher per-shot recoil makes a lot of sense. The boom-y sound effect also supports this.

 

That said, yeah! Post-burst recoil would be nice. Point I want to make is that it's not broken as-is, though.

[GeneralArmchair]

Considering the per-shot damage of the Burston is 50% higher, I kind of figured that it modeled a higher caliber weapon. Then having higher per-shot recoil makes a lot of sense. The boom-y sound effect also supports this.

 

That said, yeah! Post-burst recoil would be nice. Point I want to make is that it's not broken as-is, though.

How can the weapon be broken if it doesn't even have armor ignore?

[Tesrac]

I don't have any problem putting all three rounds on target at medium range, at short range I tear through most things in nothing flat, for longer range I accept that even with shifting the mouse down to compensate for recoil I'm not putting all three rounds on target....just the price you pay for having such a hard hitting weapon. Try getting a maxed out Speed Trigger, as long as you have a decent frame rate it will make a huge difference in how the weapon will perform for you.

[fatpig84]

Speed trigger cuts the recoil immensely. And the Burston does 50% more damage than the Braton per bullet.

For that insane damage there should be some recoil after all.

 

I find it very usable even up to mid range.

[PaperAlien]

Speed trigger cuts the recoil immensely. And the Burston does 50% more damage than the Braton per bullet.

For that insane damage there should be some recoil after all.

 

I find it very usable even up to mid range.

"even" up to mid range is the problem. Burst-fire weapons are only good for medium range. If medium range is stretching it already, then there's a problem. Also, the Braton works similarly well "even" up to midrange, and it still has far higher DPS due to the full auto (which is still fairly accurate at range).

[fatpig84]

"even" up to mid range is the problem. Burst-fire weapons are only good for medium range. If medium range is stretching it already, then there's a problem. Also, the Braton works similarly well "even" up to midrange, and it still has far higher DPS due to the full auto (which is still fairly accurate at range).

 

The recoil is only really bad on Kraken..

Burston I can put 3 headshots by jolting the mouse down on med range.

 

Honestly, I don't expect the Burston to dominate up far like the Latron because if it does dominate at range like the Latron , what is the point of the Latron ? Other than the Latron taking 2 shots to almost reach the Burston max damage ?

 

The Burston can re-fire faster and if it has near 0 recoil, there is little use for the Latron anymore.

The only viable competitor would than be the Latron Prime which I argue that is easier to make since you can just spam T3 raids for it.

 

 

Also Braton on a straight DPS argument will win out Burston and Latron because of it's full auto nature (and in fact, many guns). No one  can dispute that.

 

The other 2 are designed for high burst damage rather than consistent DPS. Even the Ogris against a solo target actually does less DPS than a Braton as well.

Edited August 7, 2013 by fatpig84

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

First off, everyone complaining should educate yourselves:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_tap

 

Secondly, practice, practice and more practice.

 

Third, expecting to hit a far away target with burst fire is unrealistic. The shotguns have damage dropoff, the burst weapons have intense recoil, this is balancing to somewhat mimic realistic behaviour in these weapons.

 

Summary: aim at the centre of the sternum of your enemy, the recoil will do the rest. Burst weapons aren't snipers, so if you're going to use them like that, practic makes perfect.