Napalms and Tusk Napalms Damage should be looked at please

[Kalvorax]

I am getting tired of the fact that literally any other enemy damage IS mitigated (yes even the occasional venomous Grineer trooper i see on the plains), however Napalms and even Scorchers fire damage is absolutly OP in comparison....as is their AOE burn....they are the majority of my deaths on the plains.....with the occasional Super Bolkor turret spam.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Kalvorax

[PsychedelicSnake]

I feel a large part of the problem with Napalms in general is a very unclear AoE (otherwise known as invisible). There is no clear area of effect indicator like an explosion or expanding wall of flame with the initial blast of their projectile. Generally not a huge problem when you are 1 v 1 with these guys but in groups they can be a huge problem due to this lack of visible AoE. 

[Xzorn]

The Radial AoE caused by the impact is way too big. The Fire they leave behind also isn't represented well but the explosion is what kills.

I welcome anyone to 1v1 a Napalm at close-mid range and not get hit. If you don't have the eHP to survive the radial blast you die because it cannot be dodged. The only way to counter a Napalm is to out-range them, block them with Volt Shield /Cover (Not Snow Globe) or take their guns away.

Napalms are the 2nd most broken enemy in terms of scaling behind Commanders which have a hit-scan insta kill at later levels. Both enemy types became far more common after starchart 3.0 and I often wondered why DE wanted to bring players out of the Void just to see how broken the other factions scale.

[(XBOX)Ubern00ber88]

Low shield, low health mesa with no shield ability active. While I think these boys hit like trucks this is not the best example of that situation.

Edit: Nvm, saw the recast after watching it a 4th time

Edited February 7, 2018 by (XB1)Ubern00ber88
New data

[Kalvorax]

24 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Ubern00ber88 said:

Low shield, low health mesa with no shield ability active. While I think these boys hit like trucks this is not the best example of that situation.

Edit: Nvm, saw the recast after watching it a 4th time

there is also the fact its NOT a low health mesa...my build works against literally EVERYTHING except these OP napalms...

[Flames21891]

Sadly, Shatter Shield does not block explosions, which is why Mesa melts on the plains unless you can instagib everything everything else first. Grineer with rockets are ridiculous to begin with. The rockets are hard to see in the middle of a fight, have absurd tracking, cause a massive explosion with no visual effects so you just die out of nowhere, and are capable of instagibbing most frames at lv60. The napalm rockets don't have tracking, but they do have what seems to be a larger explosion radius, and a DoT proc that basically guarantees your death if the explosion didn't already do it.

Honestly, this video reminds me of when Hyekka Masters were first introduced, and a single Hyekka could just instantly kill any almost any frame with its leap attack.

What they should do is change Napalms to be area denial units. Nerf the explosion damage, but make the rocket explode into a pit of fire. Right now they're just Bombard 2.0s. Honestly though, the entire Grineer faction should probably just be reworked. Commanders are still a dumb mechanic, Bombard rockets share a lot of the same complaints as these guys, and armor scaling...yeah, that one speaks for itself.

[Kalvorax]

1 minute ago, Flames21891 said:

Sadly, Shatter Shield does not block explosions, which is why Mesa melts on the plains unless you can instagib everything everything else first. Grineer with rockets are ridiculous to begin with. The rockets are hard to see in the middle of a fight, have absurd tracking, cause a massive explosion with no visual effects so you just die out of nowhere, and are capable of instagibbing most frames at lv60. The napalm rockets don't have tracking, but they do have what seems to be a larger explosion radius, and a DoT proc that basically guarantees your death if the explosion didn't already do it.

your kidding me???? no wonder i had more success with Zephyr than mesa....even with a 12 meter range on mesa's SS.

[Flames21891]

2 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

your kidding me???? no wonder i had more success with Zephyr than mesa....even with a 12 meter range on mesa's SS.

Haha, yeah. It's kinda funny, if you let a rocket hit you directly in the face, Shatter Shield will mitigate the damage from the direct impact, but the resulting explosion will still do full damage and kill you. Between the constant bombardment and stupid armor scaling, Mesa is a pretty subpar choice for doing lv60 bounties on the plains. It can still be done, but you basically have to walk on eggshells. Honestly, I eventually just got tired of enemies cheesing me with explosions, so I almost exclusively play a Rage Defy Wukong for those bounties now.

[Kalvorax]

3 minutes ago, Flames21891 said:

Haha, yeah. It's kinda funny, if you let a rocket hit you directly in the face, Shatter Shield will mitigate the damage from the direct impact, but the resulting explosion will still do full damage and kill you. Between the constant bombardment and stupid armor scaling, Mesa is a pretty subpar choice for doing lv60 bounties on the plains. It can still be done, but you basically have to walk on eggshells. Honestly, I eventually just got tired of enemies cheesing me with explosions, so I almost exclusively play a Rage Defy Wukong for those bounties now.

hmm, and i made a feeback post on napalms.....just to see its actually Mesa's shatter Shield that is having issues....or both lol

[Dolomaticus]

No SS is not having issues, it never has blocked explosions, it only deflects shots. I have defected back rockets, but if the rocket lands near where I am standing, it will hurt badly. 

[Kalvorax]

16 hours ago, Dolomaticus said:

No SS is not having issues, it never has blocked explosions, it only deflects shots. I have defected back rockets, but if the rocket lands near where I am standing, it will hurt badly. 

the issue i personally see is that SS with 130% Power strength is a 95% dmg reduction.....which is being completely ignored by the napalms fire....the damage im getting with it active is imo what i should be getting when it is IN-active....just like everything else.

[Xzorn]

If you don't move or stand near objects rockets will bounce off harmlessly but if if hits the floor or an object nearby due to moving; the explosion will kill you so you have to stand very still when dealing with rockets. Napalms, Hyeka Firebombs and the rocketpack bombardments however do instant Radial damage which bypasses her shield, so does Bleed damage.... Even when it's from a ballistic weapon... which makes no sense btw.

Like I mentioned there are only a few ways to counter a Napalm's Radial AoE. Once backed by enough levels no amount of mitigation will save you.

I've made a point of this in the past by dueling a lvl 150 Bombard using a Bow and no abilities without tacking 1 point of damage.

You cannot do the same with a Napalm. Their design is flawed to hurt you no matter what you do.

EDIT:   I feel I should elaborate better on that comparison. I believe every enemy should be designed from the ground up with the concept that it's possible for a player to defeat that enemy 1v1 at any level without using abilities and without taking damage. Not 100% of the time of course. It should be difficult to do but possible. It's then when additional enemies and combinations of enemies are put together like in a normal fight situation that our abilities are used to even the odds and come out alive.

I very much dislike anti-skill designs like a Napalms and Commanders which do what they do regardless of player's actions.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Xzorn