Too Much Rng...

[Brimir]

Especially when it comes to mods. There needs to be a more guaranteed way to hunt down induvidual mods.

[Eisvogel]

It's like any online game, kill things until you get it. There's also only a handful of mods that are really hard to get anyways

[Brimir]

No it is not like any other game. There you level up and are guaranteed to increase in power. Here you have to rely on the RNG to bless you with that one certain mod to progess.

 

I've been farming for pretty much two weeks for Streamline by now, for example. Others have for Flow. Or any other certain mod.

[inthephonebox]

Some mods are supposed to drop more commonly from specific factions, but I agree, it would be nice if the pools were smaller and/or esclusive, or if the void only contained certain mods, preferably rares. Still though, most people will just say to farm defense missions and hope one of the thirty mods you pick up is the one you're looking for. 

[Brimir]

Problem with that is that it is starting to become a chore.

 

And when a game becomes a chore something is fundamentally wrong.

 

EDIT: Plus with the stupid network problems in Warframe I can't get into a group most of the time anyway.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Brimir

[bratley18]

It's a reward from Venera defense every so often. Usually around wave 15. Good luck.

[Rhorge]

Especially when it comes to mods. There needs to be a more guaranteed way to hunt down induvidual mods.

Right, and how will that be accomplished? You will be able to buy them for plat. Devs announced that already on one of the livestreams.

[Brimir]

Right, and how will that be accomplished? You will be able to buy them for plat. Devs announced that already on one of the livestreams.

 

 

Yeah that's totally the right solution.

 

"We can't balance it properly, so we're making it more Pay2Win."

[inthephonebox]

The only way I continue playing this game is by having multiple goals at once. Hunting for more than one mod at a time, while leveling a frame and/or a weapon, while hunting for resources in order to make x, y, and/or z. That said, I am playing less and less these days since I have all but two frames, only missing a handful of rare mods, and rare resource drops have become almost nonexistent despite us kicking Grineer Formorian Ship &#!. Now I'm just casually popping on every couple days waiting for new content. 

 

We should also be getting that Consignment shop thing they mentioned on the last livestream soon. Trade in four mods you don't care about for a chance at a better one. Not a terrible idea, I have pages and pages of unused mods. 

Edited August 7, 2013 by inthephonebox

[Trollin4ThePrimes]

RNG is the only thing that keeps people playing, if you had everything in a matter of hours then DE  ( which can't keep up with new content now) will never be able to produce enough stuff. Also its a mmo their all like this. I love RNG and firmly support it.

 

Its no way P2W its just lazy people who don't want to farm and expect everything handed to them on a golden platter...

Edited August 7, 2013 by dadgoat

[Brimir]

RNG is the only thing that keeps people playing, if you had everything in a matter of hours then DE  ( which can't keep up with new content now) will never be able to produce enough stuff. Also its a mmo their all like this. I love RNG and firmly support it.

 

Again, no they are not. A proper game doesn't have to rely on forcing you to grind. They have other carrots on sticks for you.

[Brimir]

The only way I continue playing this game is by having multiple goals at once. Hunting for more than one mod at a time, while leveling a frame and/or a weapon, while hunting for resources in order to make x, y, and/or z.

 

 

Problem is that once I could farm Hyena, I have everything in terms of gear I would ever want. I can make whichever Warframe I want. I can make whichever weapon I want (I don't care for Prime weapons). Those can all be farmed for.

 

The only thing I have left is finding those mods I need. There is far too much RNG to be able to farm them.

[Hybridon]

Yeah that's totally the right solution.

 

"We can't balance it properly, so we're making it more Pay2Win."

 

They will be buyable from other players.

 

For example, I have a Serration maxed out and want to sell it? Ill put it up for sale and other players can purchase it. It wont be the devs selling mods, and yes us being able to sell maxed out mods.

 

I agree the drop tables are messed up, but they have knowledge of this and are trying to fix it, they had gone in a good direction when they diluted the tables on defense missions by factions, but then they added more stuff and we are heading towards the same problem.

 

Your best chance at Streamline is going on Xini, or some other high leveled infested defense.

[Rhorge]

Yeah that's totally the right solution.

 

"We can't balance it properly, so we're making it more Pay2Win."

Again, no they are not. A proper game doesn't have to rely on forcing you to grind. They have other carrots on sticks for you.

You either play the game like it was designed to be played or pay. Seems like a fair enough solution to me considering you can buy weapons and frames already. Besides if you think that playing the game = grinding = chore = hard work, then perhaps you should grow out of that stuck up attitude.

[Brimir]

Jeesh could you be more of a sterotypical fanboy? This game isn't perfect. In fact this is one of the grindier games I've encountered (outside of those really, reaaaaally grindy asian MMORPGs I was hooked by for a little while in high school....) and that is a problem. Thankfully the core gameplay of the game is very solid and has been able to keep me playing, but the chore-like nature of getting mods is starting to make me feel rather down.

[Rhorge]

Jeesh could you be more of a sterotypical fanboy?

Yes.

 

Now can you give a logical argument unlike "this game is not quite my style so change it now"?

[Brimir]

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my argument illogical. It is like calling someone you don't agree with a troll. Its stupid.

 

 

 

EDIT: Besides, there are people who agree with me in this thread too. What's your take on them?

Edited August 7, 2013 by Brimir

[Rhorge]

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't make my argument illogical. It is like calling someone you don't agree with a troll. Its stupid.

1. I never said your argument is illogical. Mostly because...

2. You never made an argument in the first place. You just stated that you hate grinding and offered no alternatives.

 

That, my friend, is stupid.

 

As for "other people", which amount to a grand total of a single person, they made somewhat of an argument but didn't seem to be bothered enough to think through what make "smaller/exclusive" pools means and explain it further. There are already separate mod pools in the game btw.

 

So will you actually explain why this needs to be changed and offer an alternative or will you carry on acting like the game development savant and simply say it's "bad design, if you disagree you're an idiot fanboy".

[Davoodoo]

So neither arguments are illogical both guys are right yet they say different things...This gonna get us nowhere. Though i agree with rhorge

 

Lets make at least short list with same or nearly same rng:

wow, rift, neverwinter, monster hunter are my first thoughts

[Brimir]

Monster Hunter? No way. In Monster Hunter you pick which Monster to fight and you only get parts from that Monster. To put them on the same level you would have to make every Monster in the game equally likeable of rewarding carves from all other Monsters as they are their own parts.  Imagine fighting Azure Rathian and getting Yian Kut-ku carves!

 

WoW/Neverwinter/Rift? No way. In this games you don't have to go out and hunt for your spells and abilities; they are unlocked as you level up. Those games are in no way on the same level as Warframe in that regard.

 

Note that I am not complaining about crafting in general. Crafting weapons and Warframes is fine (well, they could make Control Modules drop earlier to allow new players to ditch their starter Warframe earlier. Hyena is faaaaaar too far in to the game to be the first reliable source). It is only when it comes to mods it goes way, waaay too far.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Brimir

[DJ_Tyranny]

...That said, I am playing less and less these days since I have all but two frames, only missing a handful of rare mods, and rare resource drops have become almost nonexistent despite us kicking Grineer Formorian Ship &#!. Now I'm just casually popping on every couple days waiting for new content. 

 

We should also be getting that Consignment shop thing they mentioned on the last livestream soon. Trade in four mods you don't care about for a chance at a better one. Not a terrible idea, I have pages and pages of unused mods. 

So sadly this^

 

I'm not saying I wholly disagree with RNG, but I do believe the system needs a serious overhaul. For example, when you do Nightmare Mode missions, you end up getting one of a select number of special mods that have been reserved for that mode, e.g. the combo-mods. If you go through the trouble of farming Void keys, killing the enemies in the Void, getting through the traps and into the 'secret' rooms, you better believe I feel we should get rarer and/or different mods than in normal missions. The designers even went through the trouble of making them different colors and more aesthetically pleasing in the Void, so you can bet I was disappointed on my first Void runs to get bog-standard, run-of-the-mill mods I'll just end up feeding to the Fusion Beast.

 

I understand good things come to those who wait and I am more than willing to farm and work at getting what I need and want. I have farmed and hunted down every Warframe I have (all but Frost Prime, Saryn and Nova, tho some still in Foundry) and every weapon (a ton unbuilts also sitting in the Foundry). And yes, I have purchased platinum as well, with a view to helping the game progress. However, there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere that goes beyond the realm of pure luck. Take my Focus, for example. I ran myself into the ground trying to get just ONE Focus mod, while my friends would laugh at me because they had several. I have another friend who has the same with Flow. It took me something like 230 hours to get one and I feel that's a ridiculous amount of time to run around with an inferior loadout on a Waframe just because Lady Luck feels like peeing in your cornflakes.

 

Which brings me to another reference to the quote above.. Why...WHY does everything have to rely on chance/luck? I would have purchased that Focus mod, straight out, after I grew tired of farming. But instead of offering me the ability to do so, I would have had to purchase mod packs with a CHANCE of getting the one I want. Now DE is talking about something I suggested ages ago - trading in X number of common mods for an uncommon and X amount of uncommon for a rare. (I don't know if the new shop will work exactly like that, but in the same vein...). But what I DO understand is that trading in mods will give you a CHANCE of getting the one you want. Why can't you just trade and get the one you want? Why base it on chance? Why can't you purchase the one you want, with platinum, rather than a pack of 'maybes?" Just like they have XP and specific levels they have set for certain weapons/bps, they could always set a cap of hours played on the ability to purchase the mod. Maybe after 50 or 100 hours played you could purchase a mod you wanted. More money for the game, but not so much of a pay to play because you have to play actual hours to earn that privilege?

 

I don’t claim to have all the answers and I realize some may disagree, but having gone from eight friends who played WF with me to two because of this endless grind, I think this is a pretty serious issue.

[Brimir]

The answer is as obvious as it is depressing: massive RNG takes the place of proper replay value.

[Davoodoo]

Monster Hunter? No way. In Monster Hunter you pick which Monster to fight and you only get parts from that Monster. To put them on the same level you would have to make every Monster in the game equally likeable of rewarding carves from all other Monsters as they are their own parts.  Imagine fighting Azure Rathian and getting Yian Kut-ku carves!

 

WoW/Neverwinter/Rift? No way. In this games you don't have to go out and hunt for your spells and abilities; they are unlocked as you level up. Those games are in no way on the same level as Warframe in that regard.

 

Note that I am not complaining about crafting in general. Crafting weapons and Warframes is fine (well, they could make Control Modules drop earlier to allow new players to ditch their starter Warframe earlier. Hyena is faaaaaar too far in to the game to be the first reliable source). It is only when it comes to mods it goes way, waaay too far.

Obviously you never tried to get rathalos plate for more than 2 weeks

Obviously you never tried to get deathbringers will or deaths choice for more than half year

Obviously you never tried to get any rare item.

Yet its all the same grind to get desired item influenced by rng.

Oh but you also forget that you have all abilities when buying/crafting new frame.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Davoodoo

[Brimir]

You're not getting it. You can farm Rathalos (and Rathalos alone) for a Rathlos. That is not comparable to trying to get a single, specific mod in Warframe because of the number of potential sources. There is a lot less RNG involved in farming the things in your examples.

 

They are comparable to farming for a Warframe Blueprint of a specific boss only. Not the entire Warframe RNG system as a whole.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Brimir

[Rhorge]

The answer is as obvious as it is depressing: massive RNG takes the place of proper replay value.

Well, thanks for the enlightenment. Go play another game if you hate it so much, majority of the people don't seem to care and you don't seem to know why it's so bad in the first place.