Why Chroma will never be tanky again: (UPDATED TO CONTAIN THE BEST BALANCING IDEAS IN THE FIRST POST)

[Dragazer]

46 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

That's good to know.

Well, sucks for you, since he bullied you.

But info like this can help being more aware of his trolling.

Ah yes I'm the big bad bully and troll for showing public info that literally anyone who is reading this thread can access with just his username.

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

For the love of god... you are really as dense as a rock... just, please, tell me you are simply ignoring the age restriction this game has. Don't make me loose all hope in humanity. Pretty please?

But this? yeah totally not bullying at all.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Dragazer

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Koldraxon-732:

From my experience running up against a Teralyst as Chroma, his buff and effects are just energy sinks.

Since Chroma's pelt's origins are Sentient, like Hunhow's Fragments, he deserves the resistances and extra damage he should be outputting, but only him.

Proposal: Half-buff Vex Armor to be back to 1/2 its original capability, but not buff the team buff he gives, but make the damage buff work best for the element chosen.

This would, theoretically, make his 1 able to actually kill things rather than serving only as a free proc button, and allow Chroma to survive things.

wrote this several times. my idea would be that the vex armor returns to its original (ofc. without the dmg exploit). 

i know if that armor buff would be shared with the team it would make it way too strong. so to nerf that i suggest that the buff is getting splitted between the team as soon as they get in range.

eg if the whole team is close to chroma his buff is devided by 4. as a resjlt the armor buff would be similar to what it is now.

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, DeadlyCreation said:

yeah thats 100% your playstile. but this is about a tank. a tank should tank and not be fragile as your beloved frames. 

Chroma wasn't meant to be a tank though. He was meant to be a dragon... hard to kill, yeah, but still killable. Able to dish out damage in proportion to damage taken. 

If he were meant to be a tank, they'd given him CC abilities... But they didn't. He's meant to be a damage frame. 

[Dragazer]

1 minute ago, Maka.Bones said:

Chroma wasn't meant to be a tank though. He was meant to be a dragon... hard to kill, yeah, but still killable. Able to dish out damage in proportion to damage taken. 

If he were meant to be a tank, they'd given him CC abilities... But they didn't. He's meant to be a damage frame. 

Dragon isn't a role, try harder pls.

[Dragazer]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Chroma wasn't meant to be a tank though. hard to kill, yeah,

You realize a tank means someone who is hard to kill, right?

[DeadlyCreation]

Gerade eben schrieb Maka.Bones:

Chroma wasn't meant to be a tank though. He was meant to be a dragon... hard to kill, yeah, but still killable. Able to dish out damage in proportion to damage taken. 

If he were meant to be a tank, they'd given him CC abilities... But they didn't. He's meant to be a damage frame. 

no chroma is build like hunow and the stalker. he is supposed to adapt to enemy dmg. so he was allways meant to be hard to kill. 

and yes he was also meant to dish out dmg but in the prportion this exploit made him do. thats why the dmg nerf is nit as bad as the armor nerf. 

[--SlayerPrime--]

Just now, Dragazer said:

You literally played Chroma for 1.19 hours m8, there isn't much to say without the experience to back it up. 

Ppl got a right to know where this info is coming from

You simply judge me by my profile hour? Without asking why I did not invest in him even I had the resources? Without asking if I ever do long MOT endurance run with Chroma teammates to see how it does in extreme conditions? Without asking if I have ever browsed any build videos? (despite most are "ice chroma" using 2 and 3 most of the time I wonder why?)

Even for now, people still focused on his 2 and 3 even if his 1 and 4 are seriously poorly made.

But that's understandable, you know why?

Because people like you are under the disguise that "I want a better chroma" in fact it is "I want a gigantic EHP pool" to feel "untouchable". It's the same phenomenon with the "old bladestorm ash" spammers, they said they angry about ash nerf, but in fact what they truely angry is "I lost my one button to kill the map and now I'm mad". In your case, it's "I can't press some buttons to get an absurd amount of EHP and now I'm mad"

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, DeadlyCreation said:

in my opinion DE should give chroma his old armor back but making vex armor split between teammates. so when chroma goes alone he is tanky as allways but when having all teammates closeby the buff is split by 4. (so similar result like how its now)

This^ sounds fair/balanced, and like something that should've been done with the original changes. You should submit that to the warframe feedback megathread. 

[DeadlyCreation]

thinking about it i would love to see spectral scream attracting enemies to chroma. kinda like a dragon roar. so he literally tanks

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

no chroma is build like hunow and the stalker. he is supposed to adapt to enemy dmg. so he was allways meant to be hard to kill. 

and yes he was also meant to dish out dmg but in the prportion this exploit made him do. thats why the dmg nerf is nit as bad as the armor nerf. 

Ok, that's an interesting idea/good point. But also yeah, that's kinda what dragons do. 

[Maka.Bones]

3 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

You realize a tank means someone who is hard to kill, right?

Tank is someone who takes aggro, and controls the flow of enemies.

Brawlers are hard to kill, and meant to dish out damage... brawlers aren't tanks.

[Maka.Bones]

2 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

thinking about it i would love to see spectral scream attracting enemies to chroma. kinda like a dragon roar. so he literally tanks

Suggest that too on your megathread. That would actually make him a tank, and give him some CC. It would also help you build up your vex armor with another mechanic besides *emo mode/concealed explosives* and then pablo wouldn't feel triggered by people priming their vex armor that way xD

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Maka.Bones:

Tank is someone who takes aggro, and controls the flow of enemies.

Brawlers are hard to kill, and meant to dish out damage... brawlers aren't tanks.

yeah true. thats why i would love to see that spectral scream is literally a scream. attracting enemies like a dragon roar. so chroma literally tanks enemies as long as spectral scream is active

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, DeadlyCreation said:

yeah true. thats why i would love to see that spectral scream is literally a scream. attracting enemies like a dragon roar. so chroma literally tanks enemies as long as spectral scream is active

That would make him an interesting offensive/masochist tank. Sounds fun.

[Walkampf]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Dragazer:

Dragon isn't a role, try harder pls.

You realize that it makes you a hypocrite by now nitpicking his wording choice?

lol you lost your arguments long ago and are now just here to nitpick my wording choice.

[Dragazer]

3 minutes ago, Bobman111 said:

You simply judge me by my profile hour? Without asking why I did not invest in him even I had the resources? Without asking if I ever do long MOT endurance run with Chroma teammates to see how it does in extreme conditions? Without asking if I have ever browsed any build videos? (despite most are "ice chroma" using 2 and 3 most of the time I wonder why?)

Even for now, people still focused on his 2 and 3 even if his 1 and 4 are seriously poorly made.

But that's understandable, you know why?

Because people like you are under the disguise that "I want a better chroma" in fact it is "I want a gigantic EHP pool" to feel "untouchable". It's the same phenomenon with the "old bladestorm ash" spammers, they said they angry about ash nerf, but in fact what they truely angry is "I lost my one button to kill the map and now I'm mad". In your case, it's "I can't press some buttons to get an absurd amount of EHP and now I'm mad"

His 2 and 3 are literally the only thing worth a damn in his kit of course thats going to be the focus. You mention in another post that "Chroma's 2 and 3 is fine now, in fact it's the best it has ever been." this is clearly not the case the maths and calculations just don't add up. That statement just proves you have no clue what is going on. The profile check just further strengthens my point.

If I wanted absurd amount of ehp, I would have just gone Wukong, who with Defy and rage, literally has infinite ehp.

The ash comment is another can of worms for another day as this is a Chroma thread.

 

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Maka.Bones:

That would make him an interesting offensive/masochist tank. Sounds fun.

hopefully DE is listening to our feedback :-)

[SnapTheMag]

Good grief, all this exaggeration! 

No, Vex isn't useless. It's just a good (as opposed to insane pre-patch) ability on a frame with a lackluster kit. Chroma's Vex damage buff is still one of if not the best weapon damage buffs in the game. I will admit that Rhino's Roar has better mechanics and can be more effective in certain situations and it should be discussed whether Vex's mechanics need to change and whether the base buff needs to be bumped up a bit to give Chroma's buff its own well defined niche but that's another matter entirely.

It should also be pointed out that most Chroma pre-patch configs were religiously optimized for power strength and duration at the expense of range and efficiency. With Chroma apparently moving towards a team buffing/utlility role in combination with a reduced version of his tank/dps role, a drastic change in configs should be taken into account when calculating his buffs and deciding on further changes to his kit. In order for his team buffs to work effectively he will most likely lose quite a bit of ability strength (replacing Narrow Minded with Overextended for instance) and this is without taking into account the additional energy consumption needed for upkeep, as well as potentially needing more efficiency. Chroma shouldn't need 300%+ ability strength to do what Rhino can do with ~200%. 

I think the main (and only worthwhile) argument to make here is that we went from a frame with 2 useless, 1 useful and 1 OP ability to a frame with 2 useless, 1 barely useful (Fire is actually a lot better than Ice now) and one good ability. Vex was pulled back from the nutty numbers it was outputting and changed somewhat but we got very little value back in the rest of Chroma's kit. Having an ability do what Vex used to to is just stupid, but reining that in while doing precious little else has shrunk Chroma's already small niche to almost nothing. No, Spectral Scream is still not anywhere near useful, the changes just took it from awful to bad.

His overall kit and place in the game is the big issue here, not whether Vex is overpowered or underpowered. I fully endorse bringing Vex in line with other warframe abilities IF his kit becomes more well rounded and he becomes more than just this one trick, "do more damage, take less damage", pony.

In keeping with this point, I'd actually propose some (unfinished) changes to Elemental Ward to bring it more in line with the way Vex works whie preserving its previous synergy with Vex:

- Make it refreshable;

- Have Fire and Ice give a flat bonus (as opposed to percentage) to Health and Armor respectively that scales with ability strength;

- I'm not a big fan of how Electrical and Toxin currently work so I'd give them offensively focused abilities, maybe a CC for Electrical and damage over time for Toxin, in keeping with their respective status procs;

- Let the armor bonus from Ward count into the base in the Vex calculation.

 

Making Ward refreshable decreases Chroma's reliance on Narrow Minded and thus opens him up to building for some range which is absolutely necessary if he's going to buff based off ability range. It also allows Chroma to become a budget healer with Fire, make allies tankier regardless of their base armor with Ice, or give some offensive utility via the other two elements, all while still buffing team damage in his aura.

[--SlayerPrime--]

17 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Ah yes I'm the big bad bully and troll for showing public info that literally anyone who is reading this thread can access with just his username.

access in game is different than screenshot and post online

[Dragazer]

11 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You realize that it makes you a hypocrite by now nitpicking his wording choice?

He said Chroma's role is not a tank but a Dragon, what is that even supposed to mean? Is it hypocritical to ask for more clarification?

Just take your L and leave already

Edited February 11, 2018 by Dragazer

[Walkampf]

Gerade eben schrieb Dragazer:

He said Chroma's role is not a tank but a Dragon, what is that even supposed to mean?

Dragon is a descriptive term. It's a big lizard, often flying and/or spitting fire.

Tank describes a vessel which you put fish in...

 

vor 9 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

yeah true. thats why i would love to see that spectral scream is literally a scream. attracting enemies like a dragon roar. so chroma literally tanks enemies as long as spectral scream is active

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Guardian_Derision

With the added bonus damage reduction of your weapon.

[--SlayerPrime--]

24 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

His 2 and 3 are literally the only thing worth a damn in his kit of course thats going to be the focus. You mention in another post that "Chroma's 2 and 3 is fine now, in fact it's the best it has ever been." this is clearly not the case the maths and calculations just don't add up. That statement just proves you have no clue what is going on. The profile check just further strengthens my point.

If I wanted absurd amount of ehp, I would have just gone Wukong, who with Defy and rage, literally has infinite ehp.

The ash comment is another can of worms for another day as this is a Chroma thread.

 

"His 2 and 3 are literally the only thing worth a damn in his kit of course that's going to be the focus." If you TRUELY care about Choma, you'd fight for his other aspects like you are fighting for his 2 and 3 now. But you didn't, because the only thing you care about is the EHP. 

It is the best it has ever been, because now it benefits your teammates now. It's hard for someone who just want a large EHP and focus on themselves to understand, eh?

Wukong is tied to his energy pool, he's not "fire and forget" like Chroma. Chroma can maintain the current EHP even if surrounded by high level Eximus, Wukong's energy will be drained.  

Ash's story is different but the playerbase is similar. It's the people who just want to have an "easy mode". One button to kill all and two buttons to be almost unkillable. 

Again, you try to discredit me by saying ash story is irrelevant, if so, why do you bring out Wukong mate?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Bobman111

[Maka.Bones]

22 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

He said Chroma's role is not a tank but a Dragon, what is that even supposed to mean? Is it hypocritical to ask for more clarification?

Just take your L and leave already

It was meant as satirical humor. But if you want to know my second meaning behind it:

That he has more of a brawler role. Not a tank role. 

• Brawlers can take more damage than casters, but not as much as tanks
• Brawlers usually get abilities to increase their overall damage output, to kill enemies faster
• often get abilities to deal damage in proportion to the damage they receive
• they don't get many CC abilities, maybe get movement abilities instead (which chroma sadly doesn't have) or soft CC abilities (which he does sort of have)

Mirage is another good example for a brawler. So is excalibro. 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Dragazer]

31 minutes ago, Bobman111 said:

"His 2 and 3 are literally the only thing worth a damn in his kit of course that's going to be the focus." If you TRUELY care about Choma, you'd fight for his other aspects like you are fighting for his 2 and 3 now. But you didn't, because the only thing you care about is the EHP. 

It is the best it has ever been, because now it benefits your teammates now. It's hard for someone who just want a large EHP and focus on themselves to understand, eh?

Wukong is tied to his energy pool, he's not "fire and forget" like Chroma. Chroma can maintain the current EHP even if surrounded by high level Eximus, Wukong's energy will be drained.  

Ash's story is different but the playbase is similar. It's the people who just want to have an "easy mode". One button to kill all and two buttons to be almost unkillable. 

Again, you try to discredit me by saying ash story is irrelevant, if so, why do you bring out Wukong mate?

I choose not to comment on 1 and 4, DE has stated they have plans for a complete overhaul on those abilties, I'll comment once we have an actual idea what their plans are.

As of right now his 2 and mainly 3 are literally the only legs to lift up his kit which is now currently gutted.

LOL which is why I mention Rage which replenishs energy as he gets hit, that mod alone makes him basically unkillable. But seeing your profile again, I suppose you wouldn't have known this since your play time states 0.0% for Wukong (any readers here are free to check this info yourself don't take my word for it)

Your ash comment is irrelevant to this discussion you just ramble on about some players thoughts on his rework.

I bring up Wukong because he is relevant for this discussion on Chroma's tankiness. I am making the argument that Wukong literally just needs 1 mod and press 1 button to never die ever again. If that is a thing, then why should Chroma here have to go through so many hoops, from expensive &#! mods, to expensive arcanes, from taking shield dmg every time, to then have a gutted ability?

Edited February 11, 2018 by Dragazer

[DMXGeo]

>Implying things that benefits your teammates even matter when there's frames who do that better with a range that isn't abysmal

Fact of the matter is, his 1 is still trash, and his 4 is a joke of an ultimate. No one in their right mind uses Chroma's 4 or his 1 when a gun will literally do so much more than a 3 feet scream.

Actually rework his 1 and his 4, if I summon a dragon I expect it to be a beast and not the thing it is now. He's barely a tank due to the low blow changes to scorn, and his 3 being an aura makes no sense if teammates have to constantly be in range in a fast paced game about being Ninjas especially in the Plains where the map is bigger than the hole of DE's "logic" of a change to Chroma.