why not universal vacuum

[Xgomme]

à l’instant, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

Another thin excuse that doesn't address why having an optional universal vacuum is bad thing.

Having it as a mod is actually, optional...

 

Only thing missing is a vacuum for pets, we don't need a proper universal vacuum (exilus mod or such, useless)

That universal blabla is actually the thin excuse to explain why you want to totally change a working design when it's just missing a bit.

Universal vacuum is not a bad thing, it's just well, 3/4 ingame, ask for the rest not a rework

If something needs a rework it's the whole pet/companion system, not how they handled that vacuum mod.

 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

6 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Having it as a mod is actually, optional...

Really not funny or smart.

6 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Only thing missing is a vacuum for pets, we don't need a proper universal vacuum

Already said how we don't need anything beyond Excalibur and a Braton.

Why can't we have an optional universal vacuum that is a second passive for all warframes?

6 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

If something needs a rework it's the whole pet/companion system, not how they handled that vacuum mod

Pushing aside the problem doesn't make it go away. Get the elephant in the room sorted out and then work on the whole pet system.

6 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Universal vacuum is not a bad thing

End of discussion.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Xgomme]

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

Really not funny or smart.

Already said how we don't need anything beyond Excalibur and a Braton.

Why can't we have an optional universal vacuum that is a second passive for all warframes?

Pushing aside the problem doesn't make it go away. Get the elephant in the room sorted out and then work on the whole pet system.

End of discussion.

I hope that when you compare my messages to yours you feel at least a little bad...

 

Have fun 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Xgomme said:

I hope that when you compare my messages to yours you feel at least a little bad...

Why?

[Serafinia]

16 hours ago, Sean said:

 

There's ways it could be implemented without having it forced on those that don't want it.

 

Like I said above, if it's a gear item it work best as it would...

- Have a cost to its usage (as in, taking up a gear slot)

- Those that don't want it can simply not equip it

The most simpliest way to add it as a menu option and those who doesn't want they can turn off the other players who needs they can use it. The range is the only question because peoples want the full range variant and the naysayers saying they need to sacrifice something for it. Don't need to say a quality of life change is not a sacrifice thing and it should not be forced by those peoples. I personally like to loot everything by myself but a range of 7-8 meter for univac is not lore hurting and still involve you to move and collect your loot by yourself and has the norml range to get unobtainable items which placed behind a wall or just fallling out.

This could be easy to implement (they already added it) and then removed and made it a mode again but exclusivly to the sentinels. DE and the exclusivity is a pair and they doesn't want to do things like this which could helps a lot of players because they not  play their game at all or barely and if they want they can playtest and cheat materials what they want. 

The naysayers will always say nay because of shake nay the yes sayers will always say yes and want the max options. I personally want the half way implemented and in many thread it was written logically how to implement and how it should works but many peoples defy with the logical approach and simply doesn't want others to have fun or play efficient in these ways.

 

The only thing what is matter here is the companion rework. DE stick to this current state because they doesn't want to rework the companions now and make them independent from the vacuum.

[Xgomme]

il y a 6 minutes, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

Why?

Well, you're over repeating the same ridiculous arguments when people actually use their brain to provide a valid answer.

You can try to explode messages to answer total nonsense to each point, it won't change the fact that : Vacuum is actually made universal ingame, as a mod... Having it as another mod elsewhere will not change anything, even more if you keep the actual one. Only thing missing is vacuum for pets, period.

 

Again, I'm not against a proper universal vacuum, I'm against half baked self proclaimed game designers trying to do lasagnas on actually working designs

Edited February 19, 2018 by Xgomme

[Madway7]

16 hours ago, Sean said:

Won't happen.

Despite people repeatedly asking for (proper) universal vacuum, it won't change.

 

Don't really see why, tbh, it could be implemented in a "lore-friendly" way by simply being a gear item.

Though admittedly people have been asking for seperate vaulted cosmetics packs since unvaultings started and people also thought that would never happen. (Albeit has yet to happen, but at least the current plan is to do it for the next unvaulting)

And I believe similar to this issue DE has never stated a proper reason against it.

Closest we got was Reb saying that some members on the devteam don't want it implemented the way some of us are asking it to be, but they never said what their reason was.

[(PSN)Dark-TailedFox]

I will never understand why people feel that the "need" for the 50 millionth nano spore/ammo drum/vitality/salvage/etc is such an important aspect of a game about a super soldier murdering hundreds upon thousands of biased murderers and slavemasters. If you want a "warframe based vacuum", there is Mag and her Bullet Jump + Pull augment, otherwise much like the reasons why sentinels are easy to destroy but have it is because its the trade off of utility vs battle efficiency.

The closest you'll get of a non-sentinel vacuum is the Chesa which the trade off is lack of attack based precepts and a slower resource pick up on a far stronger companion, otherwise the system is fine on the risk v reward system. You can say what you like that "naysayers are hipsters and just want others to suffer" or whatever you wish to say, but it doesn't change the fact that while, yes DE can change the Vacuum and resource system whenever they please, but if after 4-6 years they still haven't despite people wanting to ignore the "looting" half of a horde shooter which by design drops A LOT of common resources with a chance at something slightly less common, then as time goes on the chance for it drops further and further with the exception of things like Vacuum becoming a global Sentinel mod vs a singular sentinel that offered no other utility at all.

The only warframe who for the most part would receive a pass for Vacuum, innate or other is Nekros because of his interaction with Desecrate and how it's almost impossible to pick up everything around him without taking upwards of 5-10 minutes or more, especially since so many resources at one time actually end up bugged and follow you with a prompt to manually pick up with Square/Left click (you will know of this if you use the Itzal's ability in AW which has the same issue if too many resources are queued for pickup together.

There's more I wanted to add but typing a civil response at 4 am is difficult to keep 100% focus without losing the purpose of the response itself.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

12 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Well, you're over repeating the same ridiculous arguments when people actually use their brain to provide a valid answer.

It's ridiculous to call out thin excuses against an optional universal vacuum like how it somehow damages the economy or it's more psychologically rewarding to physically pick something up yourself? If so then guilty as charged. All I'm doing is questioning the utterly baffling excuses on this thread, yours included, which don't even answer my question; what is wrong with an optional universal vacuum for all frames?

13 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

You can try to explode messages to answer total nonsense to each point

Again, is it total nonsense to call out the weak excuses and ask a simple question; if it doesn't matter, why are you bothered that much by it?

14 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Only thing missing is vacuum for pets, period.

What about the people who don't use pets at all? Why can you simply not have vacuum for warframes?

15 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

I'm against half baked self proclaimed game designers trying to do lasagnas on actually working designs

I'm not a designer, nor am I trying to change a design. More like applying that design to everything instead of one thing. 

[Xgomme]

Now your answer is "but if I don't want to use pets ?" and I'm throwing excuses ? :D

 

* bulletjumps out of the thread *

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

15 minutes ago, Xgomme said:

Now your answer is "but if I don't want to use pets ?" and I'm throwing excuses ? :D

Yes you are. Very flimsy excuses. You are trying to justify a pet-only vacuum and I'm simply asking why, which is not an excuse. There is a demographic out there that doesn't use pets. I personally like using them. Others don't. 

Keep dodging my question if you want. All it does is lower your credibility.

Just say "Yes, an optional universal vacuum for warframes would be no problem".

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Shozanakh]

I use my cat only if I don't need pickups at all. Like going full melee in some sortie rush mission. I want to use kavats and kubrows and even helminth charger, but I always need this ammo pickups and I can't be bothered to loot every single drop myself.

I play game for fun, not to comply with elitist views on gameplay. I think one day DE will provide and make UV a thing.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, Shozanakh said:

I use my cat only if I don't need pickups at all. Like going full melee in some sortie rush mission. I want to use kavats and kubrows and even helminth charger, but I always need this ammo pickups and I can't be bothered to loot every single drop myself.

I play game for fun, not to comply with elitist views on gameplay. I think one day DE will provide and make UV a thing.

This post just sums it all up perfectly. +1

[mikami666134]

Not until they make vacuum-less sentinels on par with pets i think.

[Vox-Lunaris]

People want to have everything without losing anything.

Then almost no one will use sentinels.

You either get the attack power and unique utility of pets, or the vacuum and low utility of sentinels.

It's as simple as that.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Then almost no one will use sentinels.

And you speak for everyone on that?

Sentinels have benefits over Kubrows and Kavats other than Vacuum you know.

 

[Vox-Lunaris]

il y a 29 minutes, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

And you speak for everyone on that?

Sentinels have benefits over Kubrows and Kavats other than Vacuum you know.

 

any useful ones except helios'? which i might argue that it's not that useful

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

5 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

any useful ones except helios'? which i might argue that it's not that useful

Carrier, Wyrm, Djinn, Shade all have very useful passives. The mods that they come with like Medi-Ray and Enemy Radar are quite helpful as well. It sounds like your term of usefulness doesn't extend beyond scanning things.

A lot of people will still use sentinels even when Vacuum will be moved to frames.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Vox-Lunaris]

il y a 1 minute, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

Carrier, Wyrm, Djinn, Shade all have very useful passives. The mods that they come with as well like Medi-Ray are quite helpful as well. It sounds like your term of usefulness doesn't extend beyond scanning things.

A lot of people will still use sentinels even when Vacuum will be moved to frames.

Hah, i ask for abilities names and you give me names of sentinels. But i forgive you this time, let's take a look

Carrier: More ammo, hah XD so @(*()$ useful indeed. Especially with all the ammo mods and ammo restore pads and the fact that you have 3 weapons in ur arsenal without counting abilities.

Shade: Going invisible only when an animal is nearby and you can't do anything will invisible. woooow, so useful. Plus, did you know kubrows can do that with "stalk"?

Djinn: enemies within twenty meters walk to you for an explosion of 250 damage, hahahaha. Yeah, keep standing still till they catch up so you can do 250 damage.

Wyrm: 10 meters stun when many enemies are close, wow, 10 meters , much range, so useful.

Medi ray? did you know about Hunter recovery?

Meanwhile, you have pets that do alot of damage which is enough reason in itself to use them ( kubrows can kill lvl 100 bombards in two hits with the right mods ). + Their own better utilities especially kavats. ( Damn that cat's eye and charm are awesome ). 

-----------------

Now, you said "It sounds like your term of usefulness doesn't extend beyond scanning things." if you knew how to read when i said "You either get the attack power and unique utility of pets, or the vacuum and low utility of sentinels." you'll know that i consider pets utilities useful and you wouldn't ask that question. So don't friggin twist my words.

----------------

As for your "A lot of people will still use sentinels even when Vacuum will be moved to frames", i'll answer with what you said: "And you speak for everyone on that?"

 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Hah, i ask for abilities names and you give me names of sentinels.

....which will let you look up their abilities. In fact you should have known what abilities those Sentinels have by their names alone.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

More ammo, hah XD so @(*()$ useful indeed.

It is.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

enemies within twenty meters walk to you for an explosion of 250 damage, hahahaha. Yeah, keep standing still till they catch up so you can do 250 damage.

Here we see what you focus on. It's the CC, not the damage that matters.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

10 meters stun when many enemies are close, wow, 10 meters , much range, so useful.

I take it you haven't used Wyrm? 

Yes, it is indeed very useful for giving you a breather and incapacitating enemies for you.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Medi ray? did you know about Hunter recovery?

What about it? They both restore life. One arguably does more reliably than the other.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Meanwhile, you have pets that do alot of damage which is enough reason in itself to use them

Again, you show that the only thing you really care about is damage. Damage falls off.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

if you knew how to read when i said

Insults aren't going to get you anywhere. Let's at least try to keep it civil.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

unique utility of pets, or the vacuum and low utility of sentinels

I knew you said that. I just replied that your view that Sentinels have worse utility than the pets is completely and utterly your opinion. It's not a fact. As much as I like my Kavat I can appreciate the fact that she cannot throw enemies across the map, or make large groups stop shooting for a brief time.

31 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

As for your "A lot of people will still use sentinels even when Vacuum will be moved to frames", i'll answer with what you said: "And you speak for everyone on that?"

You said "almost no one will use sentinels", based on your own personal view that the only thing sentinels have going for them is vacuum. That's called an anecdotal fallacy. Some people will stop using Sentinels once vacuum is removed yes, but a lot of people will still use them because they have other benefits. That's just common sense.

To me, it sounds like you actually haven't given Sentinels much attention beyond Mastery Fodder, occasionally using Helios to scan things and hopping on the "Sentinels are useless beyond Vacuum" train.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Vox-Lunaris]

 

il y a 7 minutes, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

....which will let you look up their abilities.

It is.

Here we see what you focus on. It's the CC, not the damage that matters.

I take it you haven't used Wyrm? 

Yes, it is indeed very useful for giving you a breather and incapacitating enemies for you.

What about it? They both restore life. 

Again, you show that the only thing you care about is damage. Damage falls off.

Insults aren't going to get you anywhere.

I knew you said that. I just replied that your view that Sentinels have worse utility than the pets is completely and utterly your opinion. It's not a fact. As much as I like my Kavat I can appreciate the fact that she cannot throw enemies across the map, or make large groups stop shooting for a brief time.

You said "almost no one will use sentinels", based on your own personal view that the only thing sentinels have going for them is vacuum. That's called an anecdotal fallacy. Some people will stop using Sentinels once vacuum is removed yes, but a lot of people will still use them. That's just common sense.

You know, the way you discuss this S#&$, reminds me of a video i saw recently,

here, since you like to include videos and memes. 

Don't think the video is talking to you, it's talking ABOUT you. The twisting manipulating people, which i wish you knew how to do it at least.

------------

Back to the topic although i'm getting bored of this.

------------

Citation

....which will let you look up their abilities.

Well thank you teacher. I really needed to do my homework. You just don't know the names of the abilities so you posted the names of sentinels. 

Citation

It is.

You said it is, i said it is not and i unlike you i gave why, so thanx for stating your feelings with no arguments.

Citation

Here we see what you focus on. It's the CC, not the damage that matters.

30 seconds cooldown, 24 meters range, nice CC you got there. And needs enemies close when the cooldown is over or it will go to cooldown again. yeah, nice nice.

Citation

I take it you haven't used Wyrm? 

Yup, thaaaaat's a nice argument, nice proof, wow. You really showed me right here, what a savage. Here, go back to the video i posted. Again, 10 meters and only when enemies are close, with 15 seconds cooldown, cause bullet jumping is so damn tough. Which probably has bigger range.

Citation

What about it? They both restore life. 

You're the one that mentioned medi-ray, so by showing that pets can also restore life, your point is invalid. It's deleted as a reason to use sentinels instead of pets. Plus, Hunter recovery is way superiour, you can restor your full health with it instead of medi-ray's 12% and 15 seconds cooldown.

Citation

Again, you show that the only thing you care about is damage. Damage falls off.

Are you blind? I clearly mentioned pets abilities, i even put it in bold, and i warned you about twisting my words. And wtf with damage falls off, i even mentioned that kubrows can kill lvl 100 bombards in two hits, want a vid? go check quite shy's video about the hunter set.

Citation

Insults aren't going to get you anywhere.

I know, but you're annoying, so they help lowering the annoyance you're giving me. at least i don't twist your words and put indirect mockery. I'll give it to you straight.

Citation

I knew you said that. I just replied that your view that Sentinels have worse utility than the pets is completely and utterly your opinion. It's not a fact. As much as I like my Kavat I can appreciate the fact that she cannot throw enemies across the map, or make large groups stop shooting for a brief time.

Wth does that have to do with what you said? I clearly talked about all abilities including pets and that they matter alot more to me, and you replied that i care only about scanning. And now you did it again and said i only care about damage this time.

Citation

You said "almost no one will use sentinels", based on your own personal view that the only thing sentinels have going for them is vacuum. That's called an anecdotal fallacy. Some people will stop using Sentinels once vacuum is removed yes, but a lot of people will still use them. That's just common sense.

I never said that's the only thing going for them. I said that without it, their usefulness is way lower than pets. And i backed it up. Want some final proof? Here you go.

When carrier was the only sentinel with vaccuum, carrier and carrier prime was used 78% of the time. Now give Vaccum to pets who have higher usefulness and tell me what'll happen.

---------------

Now keep your face palms to yourself and stop embaressing yourself.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

Firstly, how is this related to the prime vault accessories? I see no correlation

Second, losing vacuum is the price you pay for stats like these. Which, personally, I consider worthwhile

 

Edit: you know it's a high salt thread when making the post crashes your phone

Edited February 19, 2018 by (XB1)SupremeMorpheus
Warning! High salt content detected!

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

You just don't know the names of the abilities so you posted the names of sentinels. 

Nope. Any well researched individual would know the names of the abilities off by heart just by the mention of the names. 

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

You said it is, i said it is not and i unlike you i gave why

You gave me a lot of anecdotes involving ammo mods and ammo pizzas which not everyone uses. Carrier also has an in-built ammo conversion passive, which is extremely useful.

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

30 seconds cooldown, 24 meters range, nice CC you got there.

Yes it is nice. Just not in your opinion. Which is fine.

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Again, 10 meters and only when enemies are close, with 15 seconds cooldown, cause bullet jumping is so damn tough

Please recognise that being incredibly sarcastic doesn't help you at all. Once again; your view on the CC not being good is entirely your opinion. Pets also have cool-downs for their abilities.

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

You're the one that mentioned medi-ray, so by showing that pets can also restore life, your point is invalid.

It actually isn't. I was showing that IMO Sentinels have more reliable ways to restore life to a warframe directly. You most likely think it doesn't, which is also your opinion.

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I clearly mentioned pets abilities, i even put it in bold

Yes and then you start quoting the Sentinel ability damage; 

"enemies within twenty meters walk to you for an explosion of 250 damage, hahahaha. Yeah, keep standing still till they catch up so you can do 250 damage."

Which just showed me how little you cared about the CC. And then you also mentioned pet damage. You clearly care quite a lot about it.

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I clearly talked about all abilities including pets and that they matter alot more to me

No you did not talk about all abilities. Your attitude was "Only Helios is marginally useful". You do care more about direct damage and don't think Sentinel CC is worth it beyond Helios.

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I said that without it, their usefulness is way lower than pets.

Again; 

23 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

When carrier was the only sentinel with vaccuum, carrier and carrier prime was used 78% of the time. Now give Vaccum to pets who have higher usefulness and tell me what'll happen.

Some people will stop using Sentinels yes. I never said they wouldn't. But a lot of people will still use them, since they do have useful benefits that pets do not have and even though their are similar mods between the two, there are some that are better than others. Please read this sentence a handful of times. You saying "almost no one will use Sentinels" based on your experience and how you view Sentinels, is a fallacy.

I'm not the one embarrassing myself here. You seriously need to calm down.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Vox-Lunaris]

I am not gonna spend my day quoting every sentence you type and keep going in an empty loop with you. Keep using your memes so more people see your comments, get that attention.

Everything you posted on this last comment i already answered on my previous ones and yet you're still twisting much of what i said.

You think sentinels abilities excluding vacuum are on par or enough to make a considerable amount of people use them? good for you

I gave more than enough evidence, i'm out.

 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

6 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Everything you posted on this last comment i already answered on my previous ones and yet you're still twisting much of what i said.

View as twisting if you can’t handle another persons opinion.

7 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

You think sentinels abilities excluding vacuum are on par or enough to make a considerable amount of people use them?

Yes. Unlike you however I don’t act like my opinion is gospel.

8 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I gave more than enough evidence, i'm out.

You gave evidence that Carrier was the most popular sentinel before Vacuum got spread. 

That does not show that people will completely abandon the Sentinel pet type when vacuum goes universal. Please learn the difference.