Warframes and Abilities to be Nerfed

[Checht]

12 minutes ago, DjKaplis said:

It would be nice to have dislike / downvote option on forum to get better understanding how much some posts and comments are liked or disliked by community. 

That way if indeed most of community wants something changed it would be easier to see. Or if a few people start having crazy ideas that almost no one supports that as well would be easier to see.

Given how allergic the vocal part of the forums is regarding nerfs, Warframe will just have endless power creep if this happens.

[StabbyTentacles]

2 hours ago, Checht said:

Enemy accuracy is poor when you're moving around.

In a perfect world.

Have kinda played the game, like you I guess. This simply is not true. Game has issues. 

Spoiler

Lol you really think a Founder who's MR 25 doesn't 'move around?'

*Just saying, not trying to sound as pretentious as this may read.

 

[Checht]

30 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Lol you really think a Founder who's MR 25 doesn't 'move around?'

*Just saying, not trying to sound as pretentious as this may read.

I'm not even sure at this point (not saying that you're not moving around, it's my impression on the player base even at high MR in general). Look up any "Warframe gameplay" footage of recent years and you'll mostly find players not moving around much at all. Most are just using some means to tank through the damage while aiming+shooting on ground, or CC enemy before aiming+shooting on ground.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Checht

[fluffysnowcap]

Unlike you you mean. The game play video's you put up where of poor to many mid range at best, you mump to much. How can you land head shots if you refuses to use cover and CC ability for the we one rest bite they can give. That we one of rest is needed to center you aim and not be rushed.

[(XBOX)Rhythm Grey]

On 2018-05-02 at 8:02 AM, Mental_Omega said:

I was expecting this to be about frames like Mesa, Inaros, Octavia or Nidus in particular who tons of people seem to have a bone to pick with for his ability to dominate in endless missions even though that is literally his niche but uh...

Volt?  

Really?  

And out of Excalibur's kit you go for radial blind and not exalted blade which is absolutely obscene with chromatic blade and condition overload?   

You also seem like someone who'd enjoy Vermintide II more than Warframe. 

 

I think it's also worth remembering Warframes for one, are essentially unstoppable gods of war in the setting.

The Tenno at their prime during the old war could fight whole armies of Hunhow sized sentients completely on their own without back up and create planet covering sandstorms.  Old War Era Warframes could probably hammer toss Godzilla through all twenty of the primarchs of Warhammer 40k before tearing every Spartan to ever serve in the UNSC in half with their bare hands before tossing a Tie Fighter clean through the bridge of a Star Destroyer to send it crashing into a reaper and destroy them bothb. 

Even the second rate warframes made with vastly inferior technology and weapons are supposed to be at a level where no number of lancers or crewmen can do anything but slow them down, and where even the best fighters and war machines of the Corpus, Grineer, and Infestation are ultimately going to lose to a prepared four man squad and lose pretty quickly.  The Stalker is (supposed to be) scary because he's one of the only things in the system that can fight a warframe one on one without the backup of an army with any reasonable chance of success.   

can i remind you that nova can create black holes in the lore of warframe (not disagreeing with you, just adding to your point)   

 

as you said, the warframes are basically gods.  spartans? guardians?   any military without reality warping powers?   well, nyx alone could stop them all with just chaos (aka turn against eachother lulz)   or miss invincakitty valkyr? yeah one valkyr could destroy the entire spartan program (all generations of it)  every guardian from the destiny universe and still make it home in time for her afternoon bowl of milk...  

[DjKaplis]

15 hours ago, Checht said:

Given how allergic the vocal part of the forums is regarding nerfs, Warframe will just have endless power creep if this happens.

Well I don't think so. I think most of the community definitely want to feel challenged in the game. Proper tools of discussing what there could be done to make the game more versatile and fun would actually help much.

As for your suggested changes - yes they probably would make starchart or sorties bit more challenging (but not much because in sorties you can actually still have unmoded frame and one OP weapon and do just fine). The problem here is that quite large part of community sometimes want to run endless missions against harder enemies and that is where you really see the need for all those mentioned warframes skillset to work well because at high enough levels (lets say 300+) a simple mistake or lacking abilities gets you killed.

The reason why your post gets so much backlash is that currently even with nerfs content like sorties isn't challenging enough and on the other hand those nerfs could totally ruin these frames in high level gameplay where many players look for real challenge.

[Checht]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Neon Lights9212 said:

can i remind you that nova can create black holes in the lore of warframe (not disagreeing with you, just adding to your point)   

 

as you said, the warframes are basically gods.  spartans? guardians?   any military without reality warping powers?   well, nyx alone could stop them all with just chaos (aka turn against eachother lulz)   or miss invincakitty valkyr? yeah one valkyr could destroy the entire spartan program (all generations of it)  every guardian from the destiny universe and still make it home in time for her afternoon bowl of milk...  

Again, Excalibur got captured by a bunch  of Grineer Ghouls in Warframe Issue #1.

 

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

As for your suggested changes - yes they probably would make starchart or sorties bit more challenging (but not much because in sorties you can actually still have unmoded frame and one OP weapon and do just fine). The problem here is that quite large part of community sometimes want to run endless missions against harder enemies and that is where you really see the need for all those mentioned warframes skillset to work well because at high enough levels (lets say 300+) a simple mistake or lacking abilities gets you killed.

If they genuinely want challenge, they would support changes that would make us not having to wait 2 hours on endless missions before we face any challenge. Also, with these abilities, the "challenge" is only "don't forget to recast invisibility" or "don't for get to CC whenever you hear/see enemies". The "fun" only comes from fighting enemies with a larger number on their heads, and not due to actual challenge. The "mistake" is forgetting to refresh the invisibility timer, or forgetting to CC. It isn't really challenging. The "fun" in these endurance runs only comes from fighting enemies with a larger number on their heads, and not due to actual challenge.

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Well I don't think so. I think most of the community definitely want to feel challenged in the game. Proper tools of discussing what there could be done to make the game more versatile and fun would actually help much.

The vocal part of the community in the forums are not really looking for challenge. That's why you see the same "nerf yourself", "don't be selfish" comments and backlash in any nerf spin to win threads. They are not looking for engaging gameplay in Warframe, they're treating it purely as a grinding and farming game. Anything to make getting loot faster and more mindlessly is a plus to them, anything to bypass gameplay to get loot faster.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Checht

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

Good thread, Checht! I really appreciate your work on trying to make a thread that wishes to respectfully and intelligently discus the game and Warframe abilities! 

There're definitely Warframes with stupid over-powered abilities and they need to be looked at! Having this in mind, I'd like to offer my feedback on your original post! 

+Your Mentions: 

-Ash: 

I don't think he needs any reduction in time limit or a cooldown timer for his Smokescreen ability. What he would greatly benefit by (or not benefit by) would be to make rolling or a lot of movement would break or decrease the invisibility effect. Power strength could increase the amount of rolls or swings of a weapon so that his Smokescreen isn't instantly cancelled; which would be terrible. 

His Teleport ability and Augment work fine as is, but the finishers killing almost any enemy of any level is silly. It does need a little decrease and Covert Lethality would be a definite bonus, even a necessity to have then. I still wish they had a specific mod like Covert Lethality for other melee weapons, but it only made unaware finishers kill an enemy. 

-Volt: 

I like the suggestions you made about Volt, and I do wish there was a timer or meter for his Discharge ability! It's annoying to have players, including myself, (guilty) spamming it! Maybe, instead of a timer, you have to have enough damage stored on his passive? Something like 300 damage? That's not too difficult; at least I don't think so... maybe? 

-Excalibur: 

Good suggestions! His Radial Blind should have a larger distance, but a decreased time limit for enemies to be stunned as the enemies get farther away from him. I agree it is a cheaper ability and is really good at halting the opposition, but he already can get mowed down too easily by enemies as it is. The change of a "time stunned" drop-off with range, might make players think more about where they use it as opposed to being spammed. 

I also wish Atlas' Petrify didn't cost as much, but would cost more only if healing his Rumblers and Bulwarks... 

+Others: 

-Banshee: Soundquake should cost more if it is going to continue to be spammable! The recent change has made her the Qween of Spamalot! 

In the interest of speaking of high-level content and powers that are over-powered; Banshee's #4 shouldn't push enemies away as this is far too effective at CC, but simply knock them down. It WOULD greatly benefit from a cool down timer! 

I also made the suggestion awhile back that her #4 should be reverted to making her stationary, but deal damage in a cone that the player can direct. She would still produce a pulse every 2 seconds that would cause enemies to stumble, but they would still be able to move. 

On activation of her #4, enemies would be knocked down and enemies marked by Sonar would take more damage. Silence would increase the knock-down chance of her #4 as well. 

-Vauban: 

His Vortex Grenade is much too good at inhaling every enemy in range. This is similar to Excalibur's Radial Blind being too effective. I would suggest that it have more range, but... have a decreased chance of sucking up enemies the further away they are. It should also do more damage, the more enemies that are sucked in. 

 

Just a few of my thoughts! 

[Hyohakusha]

Excal - the best pick for a starter, as he can run off of a handful of fairly common mods early on. and you can keep that power scaling with Chromatic Blade and Condition Overload as you get further in the game. There is nothing wrong with his Blind. It's not cheap to cast and it's not covering a massive area. If anything having your slide attacks cost energy for an automatic tiny blind should be removed. Its not the blind keeping you going through what you consider "end game" its paying close attention to your health and channeling life strike through EB. I'm also amazed someone asking for nerfs didn't mention EB. I wonder why that is.

Ash - Finally got the buff everyone always wanted him to get, and you still almost never see anyone playing him. Get it? Cause the invisi- anyway, you don't seem to have much experience with invisibility. Heavy gunners and bombards can and will kill you with a single punch if you touch them or melee them without killing them fast enough, and you can be dropped simply by running through an enemies line of fire as they're shooting at one of your team mates. That's due to Ash, Ivara, Loki and Octavia being very squishy as DE programmed them with lower armor values. Perhaps they did that for a reason.

Volt - it took people how long to get his four changed to what it is now? How many threads asking/ pestering DE here and on reddit? I think the community was pretty clear with what they wanted.

People aren't rejecting these ideas because they want more "power" or they're an "anti- nerf brigade". It's because the qualifier for making these suggestions is "I've only used these three frames enough to..." which reads as "I don't know what I'm talking about", the same as 90% of these kinds of threads. Like "I have a 5/5 disposition slide crit melee riven, melee and slide crit is op and should be nerfed." Maybe a bit more experience with the other 25 or so frames would help create a more informed opinion on overall "balance". 

[Checht]

55 minutes ago, Hyohakusha said:

Excal - the best pick for a starter, as he can run off of a handful of fairly common mods early on. and you can keep that power scaling with Chromatic Blade and Condition Overload as you get further in the game. There is nothing wrong with his Blind. It's not cheap to cast and it's not covering a massive area. If anything having your slide attacks cost energy for an automatic tiny blind should be removed. Its not the blind keeping you going through what you consider "end game" its paying close attention to your health and channeling life strike through EB. I'm also amazed someone asking for nerfs didn't mention EB. I wonder why that is.

Ash - Finally got the buff everyone always wanted him to get, and you still almost never see anyone playing him. Get it? Cause the invisi- anyway, you don't seem to have much experience with invisibility. Heavy gunners and bombards can and will kill you with a single punch if you touch them or melee them without killing them fast enough, and you can be dropped simply by running through an enemies line of fire as they're shooting at one of your team mates. That's due to Ash, Ivara, Loki and Octavia being very squishy as DE programmed them with lower armor values. Perhaps they did that for a reason.

Volt - it took people how long to get his four changed to what it is now? How many threads asking/ pestering DE here and on reddit? I think the community was pretty clear with what they wanted.

People aren't rejecting these ideas because they want more "power" or they're an "anti- nerf brigade". It's because the qualifier for making these suggestions is "I've only used these three frames enough to..." which reads as "I don't know what I'm talking about", the same as 90% of these kinds of threads. Like "I have a 5/5 disposition slide crit melee riven, melee and slide crit is op and should be nerfed." Maybe a bit more experience with the other 25 or so frames would help create a more informed opinion on overall "balance". 

Let me just ask you these few questions then.

Is it not objectively true that Excalibur can mass stun-lock whole room of enemies with Radial Blind? I have already shown that even without Fleeting Expertise or Overextended, by just having Streamline and Stretch, I can already do that in Solo Sortie 3 Augmented Enemy Armor. If you argue that it's because the spawn rate is too low, do you need me to show by gameplay that having 40 blinded level 300 enemies is just as threatening as 10 blinded level 100 enemies?

Is it not objectively true that I can scale indefinitely to any levels with Ash? How are you not melee killing enemies fast enough when you're just Fatal Teleporting with CL?

Is it not objectively true that by having Fleeting Expertise + Streamline, paired with duration and range builds, I can mass stun-lock enemies by spamming Volt's Discharge?

 

I am aware of other frames and abilities that are overpowered, and I avoid using overpowered frames. I want to make sure that my nerf suggestions are balanced, which is why I don't post nerf suggestions for other frames that I did not use much, because I did not enjoy using them.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Checht

[BlueFalcon13]

Wow... 3 frames... 3 frames which are NOT really THE meta. Go-to a regular onslaught. You end up in a group with 3 banshees. Maybe a self-damage trinity. Maybe a spore Saryn. Sometimes a volt. Elite onslaught: volt, equinox, self damage trinity.

 

Excal's radial blind can be so hit or miss. I've blinded to rez someone, and seconds later I am on the ground next to them. LOS/awareness hampers that skill more than you are giving it credit.

 

Volt is volt. Yes, when volt is min/maxed, he's strong, but tbh, for the longest time he was known as a crappy Frost in defense missions. IMO, he's ok where he is, in a world where equinox kills the entire onslaught map. Or link-trinity does the same.

 

Have you taken Ash into high level content? Have you played Loki? Loki's invis is easily double the duration of Ash's. Hell, on my solo Ash build, with a much duration as I can slap on, he has 22 seconds of invis. My spy-loki build has WAY more.

[Checht]

58 minutes ago, BlueFalcon13 said:

Wow... 3 frames... 3 frames which are NOT really THE meta. Go-to a regular onslaught. You end up in a group with 3 banshees. Maybe a self-damage trinity. Maybe a spore Saryn. Sometimes a volt. Elite onslaught: volt, equinox, self damage trinity. 

 

Excal's radial blind can be so hit or miss. I've blinded to rez someone, and seconds later I am on the ground next to them. LOS/awareness hampers that skill more than you are giving it credit.

 

Volt is volt. Yes, when volt is min/maxed, he's strong, but tbh, for the longest time he was known as a crappy Frost in defense missions. IMO, he's ok where he is, in a world where equinox kills the entire onslaught map. Or link-trinity does the same.

 

Have you taken Ash into high level content? Have you played Loki? Loki's invis is easily double the duration of Ash's. Hell, on my solo Ash build, with a much duration as I can slap on, he has 22 seconds of invis. My spy-loki build has WAY more.

Same questions

1 hour ago, Checht said:

Is it not objectively true that Excalibur can mass stun-lock whole room of enemies with Radial Blind? I have already shown that even without Fleeting Expertise or Overextended, by just having Streamline and Stretch, I can already do that in Solo Sortie 3 Augmented Enemy Armor. If you argue that it's because the spawn rate is too low, do you need me to show by gameplay that having 40 blinded level 300 enemies is just as threatening as 10 blinded level 100 enemies?

Is it not objectively true that I can scale indefinitely to any levels with Ash? How are you not melee killing enemies fast enough when you're just Fatal Teleporting with CL?

Is it not objectively true that by having Fleeting Expertise + Streamline, paired with duration and range builds, I can mass stun-lock enemies by spamming Volt's Discharge? 

If you're not bothered by having to revive teammates, it's easy to recast Radial Blind for enemies coming out of hiding.

Second, invisibility duration doesn't matter when you can just spam it to refresh the invisibility timer. The only difference is how many times you need to press 2. Did I say Loki is not overpowered?

Not meta doesn't mean not overpowered. ESO meta are meta due to the need to kill fast. If the challenge for ESO isn't to kill fast but to survive instead, the meta quickly shifts to invisible frames.

 

3 hours ago, (XB1)ZenithLord 42 said:

-Vauban: 

His Vortex Grenade is much too good at inhaling every enemy in range. This is similar to Excalibur's Radial Blind being too effective. I would suggest that it have more range, but... have a decreased chance of sucking up enemies the further away they are. It should also do more damage, the more enemies that are sucked in. 

Personally I would think Bastille to be more overpowered. Large AoE, hard CC, spammable. Haven't put much thought on how to balance his kit though.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Checht

[fluffysnowcap]

47 minutes ago, Checht said:

Personally I would think Bastille to be more overpowered. Large AoE, hard CC, spammable. Haven't put much thought on how to balance his kit though.

.....? no. no its not. VOTEX is the meta ability as it makes aiming easy, nor does it require power strength unlike balista.

You are continuing to prove that you don't understand warframe at all and you dont want to play a hord shooter. Perhaps you should try different game, as this one clearly isn't for you.

[Checht]

36 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

.....? no. no its not. VOTEX is the meta ability as it makes aiming easy, nor does it require power strength unlike balista.

You are continuing to prove that you don't understand warframe at all and you dont want to play a hord shooter. Perhaps you should try different game, as this one clearly isn't for you.

Bastille has a range of 10 m radius, Vortex has 6 m radius. In terms of AoE, it is 278% the AoE of Vortex. The duration is also longer, 15 s (Bastille) vs 12 s (Vortex). Larger AoE, longer duration of hard CC, at a lower cost of 75 vs 100. Bastille is the more efficient way to stun-lock rooms, not Vortex. Also, are you saying it is hard to aim at floating stationary targets lifted up by Bastille? Unless your aim is that poor, Bastille is the better CC for survivability.

Also, modding for Power Strength isn't mandatory for Bastille. You can just mod for efficiency and throw more Bastilles. Other than that, you can also just use its augment provided that you've modded for range. Unless you're able to catch more than twelve enemies with Vortex every time, Bastille is more efficient that Vortex with unmodded Power Strength.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Checht

[BlueFalcon13]

2 hours ago, Checht said:

Same questions

If you're not bothered by having to revive teammates, it's easy to recast Radial Blind for enemies coming out of hiding.

Second, invisibility duration doesn't matter when you can just spam it to refresh the invisibility timer. The only difference is how many times you need to press 2. Did I say Loki is not overpowered?

Not meta doesn't mean not overpowered. ESO meta are meta due to the need to kill fast. If the challenge for ESO isn't to kill fast but to survive instead, the meta quickly shifts to invisible frames.

So let's start with your self quote:

No, objectively you cannot lockdown a room 100% of the time. LOS/awareness makes it so you can't. Considering I have over 25% of my play time on excal p, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that one.

 

Loki vs Ash: Ash is a single target death machine. Loki owns an entire room with radial disarm, can replace nyx if you use his augment, amd, on top of that, can do so from an invis with a duration that is long enough that energy siphon can not only replenish the energy spent to cast invis, but also allow him to gain additional energy. Ash's smoke bomb is the diet Coke of invis. What about Ivara with 2 forms of invis, a sleep arrow, and a badass bow? Both of these frames are in a better state than Ash is if you ask me. His teleport kill thing requires an augment, and to basically kill anything in game, you HAVE to use a dagger. Try a finisher on a 160 lvl mob... It doesn't always go so great 😉

Meta is meta BECAUSE it is more efficient. If a gun does a smidge more dmg per second, it becomes the meta. If it stands out above all other options, it is the definition of overpowered. You focused on 3 nitch frames with nitch abilities and roles, and claim THEY are the problem.

 

Dumb question for ya: if survival means invis is the meta, why don't more folks run invis frames in survival? I can tell you why: cause you NEED those life support drops from enemies. You need to kill them too. The faster you do that, the more drops you get, and longer you can actually stay in there. Invis means the enemies don't know where to go. 4 Loki's in a survival is a mess. The AI doesn't know where to bring all the mobs.

Another thing: have you played an invis warframe? I can tell you I have been shot by random bullets aimed at my teammates more often than not. In ESO, those bullets really sting. Furthermore, your 3 other teammates take MORE damage since the enemies are shooting at them and not you (cause the enemies don't know where you are).

So in summary: radial blind is unreliable more often than you are giving it credit for, invis really isn't that great, and you are focusing on lesser frames for calling for nerfs. While maim equinox, self-damage link trinities, resonating quake banshees and spore saryns turn the game into a snooze fest.

[Checht]

1 hour ago, BlueFalcon13 said:

So let's start with your self quote:

No, objectively you cannot lockdown a room 100% of the time. LOS/awareness makes it so you can't. Considering I have over 25% of my play time on excal p, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to that one.

 

Loki vs Ash: Ash is a single target death machine. Loki owns an entire room with radial disarm, can replace nyx if you use his augment, amd, on top of that, can do so from an invis with a duration that is long enough that energy siphon can not only replenish the energy spent to cast invis, but also allow him to gain additional energy. Ash's smoke bomb is the diet Coke of invis. What about Ivara with 2 forms of invis, a sleep arrow, and a badass bow? Both of these frames are in a better state than Ash is if you ask me. His teleport kill thing requires an augment, and to basically kill anything in game, you HAVE to use a dagger. Try a finisher on a 160 lvl mob... It doesn't always go so great 😉

Meta is meta BECAUSE it is more efficient. If a gun does a smidge more dmg per second, it becomes the meta. If it stands out above all other options, it is the definition of overpowered. You focused on 3 nitch frames with nitch abilities and roles, and claim THEY are the problem.

 

Dumb question for ya: if survival means invis is the meta, why don't more folks run invis frames in survival? I can tell you why: cause you NEED those life support drops from enemies. You need to kill them too. The faster you do that, the more drops you get, and longer you can actually stay in there. Invis means the enemies don't know where to go. 4 Loki's in a survival is a mess. The AI doesn't know where to bring all the mobs.

Another thing: have you played an invis warframe? I can tell you I have been shot by random bullets aimed at my teammates more often than not. In ESO, those bullets really sting. Furthermore, your 3 other teammates take MORE damage since the enemies are shooting at them and not you (cause the enemies don't know where you are).

So in summary: radial blind is unreliable more often than you are giving it credit for, invis really isn't that great, and you are focusing on lesser frames for calling for nerfs. While maim equinox, self-damage link trinities, resonating quake banshees and spore saryns turn the game into a snooze fest.

I guess showing how mindless it is to play by spamming Radial Blind on Solo Sortie 3 is insufficient then. Allow me to take my time to prepare videos on how far spamming Radial Blind can get you to on Survivals then. The only thing that would limit him is nullifiers, which just shows how OP it is when the only way to counter it is to make it unusable.

Ash was my main. Quit playing him precisely due to invisibility making everything too easy. If you're still complaining about difficulty when you can stay practically permanently invisible, I don't know what else I should say. I did not say Loki, Ivara and Octavia aren't overpowered, did I?

The rest of the frames that you claim to be more overpowered are overpowered in the sense that they kill fast. I am talking about overpowered in the sense of survivability. Survivability always come before the capability to kill fast (unless you're talking about SO/ESO), as you cannot kill anything when you're dead. Also, nuke frames will hit a wall eventually when enemies have scaled high enough in level. These CC/invis skills allow you to scale pretty much indefinitely, especially for Ash. Using the same invis + Fatal Teleport tactic, LifeoRio has shown it's possible to scale up to level 700+

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Checht

[BlueFalcon13]

So funny story: did a kuva survival not long ago. 2 ashes and a Loki. Guess what died every time? The kuva pod. When the enemy only has one target to shoot, they shoot it...

Edited May 7, 2018 by BlueFalcon13
Typo

[DjKaplis]

So first of all there are not many people objecting to slide attack crit changes as long as it isn't made completely useless. Because they know its too strong right now.

 

There are not many people protesting fixes for broken mechanics like chroma vex armor insane multiplier (just the fact that fix came several years late)

 

There are however many people protesting unneccessary and not well thought out brutal nerfs to good frames that would instantly make them 100 times worse and unusable in high level content. Why not nerf every frame and weapon then by your logic to make sortie level enemies the "real challenge". I'm actually interested to know which warframes in your opinion aren't overpowered then.

Also talking about nerfing warframes because they are "too strong" and farming resources at same comment...wow. Shouldn't wait 2h in endless mission...how about people who want to wait 2h? You have no respect for what others want do you? Having challenge from 1st minute is easy if that's what you indeed want - just don't use that "overpowered" ability, come up with your own setup and there you go.

You mentioned LifeOfRio. You have any idea who he is? All he does is long endurance runs. And Ash is his favourite frame. Have you yourself killed a level 700+ enemy with Ash? No? Try doing such high level content and then come to forums talking about not having challenge.

 

All your comments lead to think that you haven't probably done higher level content than max level on simulacrum with invincibility setting turned on.

 

People do want a challenge. Its just that decent people don't ask for nerfs to get that.. They ask for more challenging content. And that is why we need the "dislike" option to express our attitude on such "I don't really play this frame myself but I think It's too strong so I want to ruin all fun for others" posts. 

I disagree not only with one but all your suggested warframe changes because they seem totally unneccessary.  AND I don't even play the mentioned frames very often myself or use the mentioned abilities too often when I do. But unlike you I respect other people who really enjoy playing them.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by DjKaplis

[Checht]

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

I'm actually interested to know which warframes in your opinion aren't overpowered then.

Good question. Atlas, Oberon, Harrow, Nezha, Hydroid (male frame examples). Basically frames that lack spammable mass hard CC or invisibility. Without those, you will eventually hit a wall when going endless.

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Have you yourself killed a level 700+ enemy with Ash? No? Try doing such high level content and then come to forums talking about not having challenge.

Yeah, I don't enjoy sitting on my chair for hours doing what I dislike just to prove a point. Although,

I am no stranger to long run either. It is just obvious to me that invisibility with Fatal Teleport + CL can scale up to any levels without much skill. If you think skillful gameplay is required for this setup, please elaborate that to me.

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

All your comments lead to think that you haven't probably done higher level content than max level on simulacrum with invincibility setting turned on. 

See pic above 😉

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Also talking about nerfing warframes because they are "too strong" and farming resources at same comment...wow. Shouldn't wait 2h in endless mission...how about people who want to wait 2h? You have no respect for what others want do you?

It seems like we have another one who doesn't understand the whole concept of a FEEDBACK forum here.

 

Edit:

Wrong quote.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Checht

[BlueFalcon13]

11 minutes ago, Checht said:

 It seems like we have another one who doesn't understand the whole concept of a FEEDBACK forum here.

Really? We are all discussing this, which is what happens in a forum. We are actually hoping the devs don't think your opinion is held by the general population of this game and countering your feedback with our own. IE- Ash and Excal are fine.

 

Iam on the fence about Volt, but he has been pretty sucky for a while. Caster/damage dealer that couldn't deal damage. He could probably use some adjustments, maybe 4th stays the same, except chain lightning doesn't scale off range? Then he wouldn't melt whole rooms, but still do good damage to groups of enemies.

[Checht]

28 minutes ago, BlueFalcon13 said:

44 minutes ago, Checht said:

 It seems like we have another one who doesn't understand the whole concept of a FEEDBACK forum here.

Really? We are all discussing this, which is what happens in a forum. We are actually hoping the devs don't think your opinion is held by the general population of this game and countering your feedback with our own. IE- Ash and Excal are fine.

I have no problem with discussion points. I was referring to the comment saying that posting my nerf suggestions as feedback to DE is somehow "disrespecting" other players who don't want these nerfs.

Edit:

Crap, just realised that I've quoted the wrong stuff in my earlier post. Fixing it now.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Checht

[DjKaplis]

Well, you named few frames that you think aren't overpowered... Only one of the mentioned ones that can't do long runs tho is Nezha, thats why people are posting on forums that his abilities are weak and need rework (because they do). 

Atlas - invincible while doing Landslide, with right setup also doing immense damage, till the duration of survival that you posted in the picture he can easy not get killed even once, still 1shot or 2shot the enemies while doing it solo.

Hydroid - Invincible while in puddle, which damage scales infinitely with enemy level. If you say invisibility is too strong (by the way with arcane trickery every frame can be invis if you want to make such setup), invincibility exceeds that as you don't even have to worry about enemies accidentally shooting you.

Harrow - insane damage with every weapon while also spammable, long duration hard cc with his 1st ability

Oberon - able to completely strip enemy armor, just as good cc as Volt or Excal with the Hallowed ground, extra armor, heals and free revive possible with Reckoning, smite scales infinitely with enemy level.

 

Only one that you can't make extremely powerful with the right setup here is Nezha. And for content where you don't wait 2h in an endless mission for stronger enemies (so probably sortie / kuva flood / elite onslaught lvl 100ish enemies) even Nezha will have no problems at all.

 

I guess my problem with your post is - just because you don't like how good certain warframes abilities can be in specciffic situations you ask for them to be considerably less powerful. But the thing is - you actually just don't like certain playstyle that those frames have. That's why it's cool that we have a large selection of warframes to pick the ones we like playing.

I for example don't like some weapons like Atterax or Scoliac because of how strong they are or maybe just because so many people are already playing them. Yet I use some less popular weapons with different playstyle (no slide crit) that are just as powerful or in some situations even stronger.

My point is - if I personally don't like some warframe / weapon because it doesn't fit my playstyle that doesn't mean I should ask for it to be changed just because. As many others like different things.

 

And as I already said some posts ago - if something indeed is too powerful they will nerf it, you can count on that wether we like it or not. Like the recent Wukong Glaive combo nerf that completely destroyed one of the most fun builds for him. Sad to see that build go but also I realise that it indeed was too strong for general gameplay and not intended to work like that unlike the abilities of those frames you mentioned. 

[BlueFalcon13]

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Well, you named few frames that you think aren't overpowered... Only one of the mentioned ones that can't do long runs tho is Nezha, thats why people are posting on forums that his abilities are weak and need rework (because they do). 

Atlas - invincible while doing Landslide, with right setup also doing immense damage, till the duration of survival that you posted in the picture he can easy not get killed even once, still 1shot or 2shot the enemies while doing it solo.

Hydroid - Invincible while in puddle, which damage scales infinitely with enemy level. If you say invisibility is too strong (by the way with arcane trickery every frame can be invis if you want to make such setup), invincibility exceeds that as you don't even have to worry about enemies accidentally shooting you.

Harrow - insane damage with every weapon while also spammable, long duration hard cc with his 1st ability

Oberon - able to completely strip enemy armor, just as good cc as Volt or Excal with the Hallowed ground, extra armor, heals and free revive possible with Reckoning, smite scales infinitely with enemy level.

 

Only one that you can't make extremely powerful with the right setup here is Nezha. And for content where you don't wait 2h in an endless mission for stronger enemies (so probably sortie / kuva flood / elite onslaught lvl 100ish enemies) even Nezha will have no problems at all.

 

I guess my problem with your post is - just because you don't like how good certain warframes abilities can be in specciffic situations you ask for them to be considerably less powerful. But the thing is - you actually just don't like certain playstyle that those frames have. That's why it's cool that we have a large selection of warframes to pick the ones we like playing.

I for example don't like some weapons like Atterax or Scoliac because of how strong they are or maybe just because so many people are already playing them. Yet I use some less popular weapons with different playstyle (no slide crit) that are just as powerful or in some situations even stronger.

My point is - if I personally don't like some warframe / weapon because it doesn't fit my playstyle that doesn't mean I should ask for it to be changed just because. As many others like different things.

 

And as I already said some posts ago - if something indeed is too powerful they will nerf it, you can count on that wether we like it or not. Like the recent Wukong Glaive combo nerf that completely destroyed one of the most fun builds for him. Sad to see that build go but also I realise that it indeed was too strong for general gameplay and not intended to work like that unlike the abilities of those frames you mentioned. 

Someone get this guy a drink!

[Checht]

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Atlas - invincible while doing Landslide, with right setup also doing immense damage, till the duration of survival that you posted in the picture he can easy not get killed even once, still 1shot or 2shot the enemies while doing it solo.

Landslide's dash distance is 14 m that cannot be increased with range mods, making Atlas vulnerable when enemies are out of range, especially at high levels.

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Hydroid - Invincible while in puddle, which damage scales infinitely with enemy level. If you say invisibility is too strong (by the way with arcane trickery every frame can be invis if you want to make such setup), invincibility exceeds that as you don't even have to worry about enemies accidentally shooting you.

You have to stay stationary and can only grab enemies with limited range with your tentacles in puddle. Plus, it drains energy continuously while you're in puddle, meaning you cannot stay permanently invincible. With invisibility, you can still freely move around, gain energy still with Zenurik while you're invisible, making it easy to stay permanently invisible. Again, if the only thing you need to worry about is accidental cross-fire, it's overpowered enough.

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Harrow - insane damage with every weapon while also spammable, long duration hard cc with his 1st ability

I've never complained about damage, only survivability. I would say 6 s is moderate compared to Radial Blind. The AoE of the hard CC is also much smaller too, it only goes in a straight line. Are you trying to say his 1st can stun-lock whole room of enemies like Radial Blind does?

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

Oberon - able to completely strip enemy armor, just as good cc as Volt or Excal with the Hallowed ground, extra armor, heals and free revive possible with Reckoning, smite scales infinitely with enemy level.

I'll just skip over armor stripping and Smite, as I've never complained about dealing too much damage, only on survivability. Radiation proc isn't "just as good CC" compared to hard CC, enemies are still attacking and shooting at everyone, including you. Regarding heals, extra armor, and free revive every 90 seconds, all these are out of the window when enemies have scaled high enough to oneshot you.

1 hour ago, DjKaplis said:

I guess my problem with your post is - just because you don't like how good certain warframes abilities can be in specciffic situations you ask for them to be considerably less powerful. But the thing is - you actually just don't like certain playstyle that those frames have. That's why it's cool that we have a large selection of warframes to pick the ones we like playing.

My benchmark is simple, if the optimal way to win can be described with simple AI pseudo-codes of

if (not invisible)

press [insert invisible button]

end

or

if (see unstunned enemy)

press [insert CC button]

end

They need to be changed IMO. I would like to use Ash and Excalibur once these nerfs are implemented, thus my feedback to DE. It has nothing to do with spite of seeing other players using them and scaling indefinitely in endurance runs. Heck, Volt is my main and I'm still asking for his nerf. They're changes that I would enjoy, have nothing to do with what others are doing with those frames. Thus, my FEEDBACK to DE.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Checht

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2018-05-06 at 8:45 AM, Checht said:

 

The vocal part of the community in the forums are not really looking for challenge. That's why you see the same "nerf yourself", "don't be selfish" comments and backlash in any nerf spin to win threads. They are not looking for engaging gameplay in Warframe, they're treating it purely as a grinding and farming game. Anything to make getting loot faster and more mindlessly is a plus to them, anything to bypass gameplay to get loot faster.

engaging doesn't inherently mean difficult.  Oberon is more of an engaging  frame to play than say octavia.  You over slimplifying things doesn't help your case.  People treat the game like a grind/farm game because THAT'S WHAT IT IS.  This desire for "difficult content" hasn't been a huge thing for a long time.  It's only recently started happening.  Like after the spectors of the rail update dropped.

I've said it before and i'll say it again.  Nothing wrong with wanting hard content.  But that should be a seperate thing.  Not forced over the whole game.  I think elite sanctuary is a good start for this.