Arid Fear Early End Screws Players Out Of Rewards

[Judanas]

What does it matter which direction it goes in?  when they were completed they were done.  Just like each stage in this event.  Was spelling VICTORY in giant letters not enough for you guys?

 

I am simply pointing out that it is incongruous with previous ones. From prior experience:

Events that count up: Do not end at 100%

Events that count down: Do end at 100%

 

While there has not yet been enough events to draw a true pattern (As there has only been one that counted down before), that is what has happened prior to this. The presentation of this event was more in line with the Fusion MOA or Grineer Informer events, which did not end than the Ships, which did.

[Aggh]

I preferred seeing the health of the first ship at -20% and falling. They also added repair to the event after that so we didn't blow though it like we did this one. Would it have been so hard for DE to add length to this event just like they did the Fomorian one?

We blew through the formorian event even faster than we did this one.  It was finished before the monday 12 pm end time.  This one wasn't even finished until monday ~5pm.

I am simply pointing out that it is incongruous with previous ones. From prior experience:

Events that count up: Do not end at 100%

Events that count down: Do end at 100%

 

While there has not yet been enough events to draw a true pattern (As there has only been one that counted down before), that is what has happened prior to this. The presentation of this event was more in line with the Fusion MOA or Grineer Informer events, which did not end than the Ships, which did.

So basically you're saying there aren't enough events to draw a pattern, but get mad when they don't meet a pattern you're drawing?

  The events have been an on going development and it makes a lot more sense that the events would follow the rules of the previous event.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Aggh

[Udoshi]

They answered. Now stop your crying, as it's doing nothing but wasting bandwidth.

 

The thing is, they're refusing to address the issue. I don't see anything in there regarding what they're going to do to fix it.

 

What that feels like is DE_Steve focusing on the future, the next event, and trying to sweep what just happened under the rug.

Either that, or he's just in post-damage-control mode analyzing what went wrong while they figure out what they can do about it.

 

If its the former, its the same thing as giving the finger to all the people affected by this mishandling. I may be a bit cynical when i say this, but why should they care? DE already has your founders money. They literally don't have any incentive to provide good customer service.

 

But there are so many things they could do besides ignore it. This is DE's chance to step up and win some hearts back after the Void Missions Rewards Don't Drop fiasco. Learning from mistakes is well and dandy an all, but its no substitute for trying to make amends after a fudge up. This is a great opportunity for DE to take a mistake and make it into something cool.

 

I would love to hear de say some of the following.

 

"We're sorry, we know things get messed up with the alert - but we're giving everyone the arid fear mods because of the mess up.  "

Or," we're putting in alerts with the arid fear mods so everyone who didn't get them can have them, and those who did can have extras to fuse"

" Or, we're going to seed alerts with the arid fear mod next livestream instead of a catalyst/reactor/forma."

Even "Hey, the new arid fear mods drop here here and here if you want more" would be better than saying sorry and doing nothing.

 

Come on Steve. Do SOMETHING. I don't care what it is, or how small, just don't sit on your thumbs. Things like this make your game not fun.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Udoshi

[Udoshi]

We blew through the formorian event even faster than we did this one.  It was finished before the monday 12 pm end time.  This one wasn't even finished until monday ~5pm.

So basically you're saying there aren't enough events to draw a pattern, but get mad when they don't meet a pattern you're drawing?

  The events have been an on going development and it makes a lot more sense that the events would follow the rules of the previous event.

 

Oi. simmer down. I think what he's trying to say is that a pattern requires a repeating pattern, which we haven't seen yet. It hasn't happened.

 

What we have seen are are similiar UI icons and stuff during events, but not exact duplicate mechanics. Just confusion, doubly so because of the similiarity.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Udoshi

[Judanas]

<Lotta Text>

 

While I agree with your general point, I think that hostility will not gain anyone anything. It will antagonize people defending the developers and put more stress on the developers themselves.

 

A polite talk will do more and leave a better working relationship with the Devs for the future than a hostile environment where players and Devs feel like the other is deliberately causing them pain. It has been less than a day, I imagine deliberation is still being done.

[carbondragon]

Im at 76 at the moment. In the time this thread has been running,(about an hour) I could easily have finished up. Except i'm not allowed to, because the alert timer lied to me.

 

The real question you should be asking is whether I deserve punishment for having obligations aside from warframe - for example, sleep.

 

Exactly how I feel. 67 points, 3 keys ready to go, 2 more BPs, and several components.

 

I even ran a bunch of "LF CV" stuff last night to grind points while I watched the progress bar rise from 40% to more than 60% in an hour. I stopped at 67 points because I figured I could run the remaining 33 with friends across the course of this week. Wake up, see event ended an hour ago. I don't even.

[Udoshi]

While I agree with your general point, I think that hostility will not gain anyone anything. It will antagonize people defending the developers and put more stress on the developers themselves.

 

A polite talk will do more and leave a better working relationship with the Devs for the future than a hostile environment where players and Devs feel like the other is deliberately causing them pain. It has been less than a day, I imagine deliberation is still being done.

 

I sure hope so.

 

Ideally, they will come up with a solution that makes the people that got time-crunched out of the alert happy, but also gives some extra kick-back to the people who finished it legitimately( so they don't feel like their time was wasted) -  but without being exclusive things to the people who earned it so more whining doesn't happen.

 

That's the core reason I suggested making the goal of the alert - the arid fear mods - available in varying ways to the userbase. The people who earned it get two, the people who didn't get one. That seems fair.

 

I'm hoping that's what will happen. But what experience has taught me is that they don't have enough time to care about doing the right thing, and I'm expecting a bandaid solution from the people who brought you operation "two free void keys, even if you lost something with a 1% drop rate".

Edited August 13, 2013 by Udoshi

[Unknown924]

I sure hope so.

Ideally, they will come up with a solution that makes the people that got time-crunched out of the alert happy , and also gives some extra kick-back to the people who finished it legitimately without being exclusive.

I'm hoping that's what will happen. But what experience has taught me is that they don't have enough time to care about doing the right thing, and I'm expecting a bandaid solution from the people who brought you 'two free void keys, even if you lost something with a 1% drop rate".

I would be happy if they counted Corpus Void keys towards the rewards. Make each key the equivalent of 2 or 3 points. If that would qualify someone for a reward, give it to them without increasing their actual score and remove the keys.

Not the same as using those keys with your friends, but it is better than nothing and should push a lot of people to the next reward tier.

[SoulEchelon]

The thing is, they're refusing to address the issue. I don't see anything in there regarding what they're going to do to fix it.

 

What that feels like is DE_Steve focusing on the future, the next event, and trying to sweep what just happened under the rug.

Either that, or he's just in post-damage-control mode analyzing what went wrong while they figure out what they can do about it.

 

If its the former, its the same thing as giving the finger to all the people affected by this mishandling. I may be a bit cynical when i say this, but why should they care? DE already has your founders money. They literally don't have any incentive to provide good customer service.

 

But there are so many things they could do besides ignore it. This is DE's chance to step up and win some hearts back after the Void Missions Rewards Don't Drop fiasco. Learning from mistakes is well and dandy an all, but its no substitute for trying to make amends after a fudge up. This is a great opportunity for DE to take a mistake and make it into something cool.

 

I would love to hear de say some of the following.

 

"We're sorry, we know things get messed up with the alert - but we're giving everyone the arid fear mods because of the mess up.  "

Or," we're putting in alerts with the arid fear mods so everyone who didn't get them can have them, and those who did can have extras to fuse"

" Or, we're going to seed alerts with the arid fear mod next livestream instead of a catalyst/reactor/forma."

Even "Hey, the new arid fear mods drop here here and here if you want more" would be better than saying sorry and doing nothing.

 

Come on Steve. Do SOMETHING. I don't care what it is, or how small, just don't sit on your thumbs. Things like this make your game not fun.

 

If DE didn't care, why would they be doing all of this? Why give events, if they already "have your Founders money"? Why fix drop rates for people who don't use plat? Why give every new weapon and warframe two different ways to obtain them - both cash and farming? Why do all of the things they've done for the FREE player when all they want is "your Founders money"? Think outside the box you've put yourself in.

 

As for the mods for this event, no. They shouldn't just give everyone everything on a silver platter. At most, they should reopen the event. That's the absolute extreme they should do - not alienate the people who actually realized the event would be over at 100% and worked to obtain the points needed.

[Udoshi]

How is doubling the award for people who earned it alienating them?

I'd love for the event to be re-opened. I'd be happy to put another hour in to get my stuff.

The problem with that, though?

The winners, the players who already got their full rewards? They don't get anything extra. Their effort - for realsies - doesn't really mean anything.

 

 

I meant more that due to the nature of the platinum/gold/zen/credit/point system, where you put in game currency up front, de doesn't really have an imperative to make existing customers happy. If it was say, subscription based, unhappy customers can vote with their wallet.

 

You've got to keep people interested in the game somehow. Their business model, essentially, relies on getting people to like their game enough to spend money on it.

That means you have to improve the game. You have to balance, test, refine, introduce new content for the business model. "Pay to skip grind" works because of the grind, not in spite of it.

At the same time, you have to draw new people in, and make them like the game enough to consider spending on it, which means improving the experience for the free player while at the same time riding the real money content alongside just close enough and cheap enough to be tempting.

 

One of the points i think you may have missed, though I'm not certain: They don't want my founders money. They HAVE it already in the bank from when i bought in last year. What they would really love  is for me to spend it all, and then buy more of it and keep spending it.

 

I tend to treat Free To Pay games like restaurants, though. If i get bad service, i stop spending money there.

 

Depending on DE's revenue flow, who knows, they may actually get more money from new players than from those who have already bought in.

[Helkaz]

i play this game because i can play with my friends and make new ones. ending the event early and not letting me get the remaining points makes me feel gyped. me and my friends spent the time to build a whole bunch of keys and we intended to use them all together to get the full 100 points. so now im stuck with useless keys and am dissatisfied with the game. i think i may end up having to play some other game if de continues the messed up weekend events system. some of us have to work our jobs to earn the money we want to spend on this game. but if we get cheated out of the rewards because of real life. then well just spend our money somewhere else.

[Aggh]

i play this game because i can play with my friends and make new ones. ending the event early and not letting me get the remaining points makes me feel gyped. me and my friends spent the time to build a whole bunch of keys and we intended to use them all together to get the full 100 points. so now im stuck with useless keys and am dissatisfied with the game. i think i may end up having to play some other game if de continues the messed up weekend events system. some of us have to work our jobs to earn the money we want to spend on this game. but if we get cheated out of the rewards because of real life. then well just spend our money somewhere else.

All of the other weekend events ended earlier and tbh, DE is pretty lenient, most weekend events for other games end when the weekend actually ends, not Monday afternoon/evening. 

 

DE will never be able to build a weekend event for someone that can't spare a handful of hours on the weekend (which most people with jobs have off).  The whole point of these events is to boost player population, people that can't even play for a couple hours on the weekend aren't exactly going to help with that.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Aggh

[Torguish]

Completely agree with OP, i expected to do then today, as i had 82 points. I also have like 8 ciphers sinve when i was online, there was no datamass missions. I also have 3 keys. I was stockpiling them for a chance to do them later on.

I wouldnt be pissed off if i had any idea that the event would've ended like this and i had known that my material farming would be in vain. Right now the stockpiling of ingridienta and saving them to do with friends seemed to be a useless tactic.

also, the problem is that this creates tension in the community towarda DE and towards each others as a community, this very bad already.

The instructions were unclear and thats that.

[Birdrock]

Completely agree with OP, i expected to do then today, as i had 82 points. I also have like 8 ciphers sinve when i was online, there was no datamass missions. I also have 3 keys. I was stockpiling them for a chance to do them later on.

I wouldnt be &!$$ed off if i had any idea that the event would've ended like this and i had known that my material farming would be in vain. Right now the stockpiling of ingridienta and saving them to do with friends seemed to be a useless tactic.

also, the problem is that this creates tension in the community towarda DE and towards each others as a community, this very bad already.

The instructions were unclear and thats that.

 

Well, there will be a lot of tension because every point scored by someone chasing the leaderboards became a point that someone else couldn't get. When we are talking about high scoring people (that invested a lot of time), we find that a single individual may have consumed enough points that 20 people weren't able to get the reward mods. Basically, this method of running an event pits players against each other in a passive aggressive contest.

 

Some of those who were able to get their points are being extremely condescending. Many of us who didn't get all of our points thought that we would have until the end of the timer. I collected a bunch of key components to grind out some voids with my friends. The event ended, so I have keys sitting around.

 

As for the people saying 'tough luck - you should have played on the weekend': Why don't we have midweek events? How about events that only last for a few hours at random times? Is there any reason the events should always be at the same time?

[Torguish]

The problem with this is also that this is literally, BAD COMMUNITY MANAGEMENT.

This creates hostility from the community towards DE.

And creates hostility inside the community itself, as seen on this post alone.

I know you can't please everyone but this literally exploded in their face. This needs to stop and they should focus on telling the community exactly how it is. Not that people need to ''expect something like this to happen'' but they NEED TO KNOW. It's just bad communication.

I supported this game a lot purely because i had a lot of fun in the forums when doing my ideas and got some love from DERebecca for example, i have not seen this kind of interaction in a while now. Instead i see pumping out half-&amp;#&#33; grindy events that are very poorly explained.

This wouldn't be an issue, or would be less of an issue if people would've known not to farm for the keys, but to use them right away. I would've had the time to get to 100 points easily, i know that but i was waiting for friends to be online and while doing that i stockpiled on materials to get more keys.

I now have like 7 ciphers, 2 datamass (because there was a lack of datamass missions during my playtimes) and 1 - 2 key(s) as it is, with friends having even more. I was missing 18 points from a 100 and expected to do them today. But when i opened my facebook, i learned that my grinding for the ingridients and keys was useless and in vain.

It's not that it screws from me from the rewards, it screwed me from my time, where i spent 2 - 5 hours farming low level events, with low rewards that are useless now. How is this okay in ANY way?

Edited August 13, 2013 by Torguish

[Torguish]

Well, there will be a lot of tension because every point scored by someone chasing the leaderboards became a point that someone else couldn't get. When we are talking about high scoring people (that invested a lot of time), we find that a single individual may have consumed enough points that 20 people weren't able to get the reward mods. Basically, this method of running an event pits players against each other in a passive aggressive contest.

 

Some of those who were able to get their points are being extremely condescending. Many of us who didn't get all of our points thought that we would have until the end of the timer. I collected a bunch of key components to grind out some voids with my friends. The event ended, so I have keys sitting around.

 

As for the people saying 'tough luck - you should have played on the weekend': Why don't we have midweek events? How about events that only last for a few hours at random times? Is there any reason the events should always be at the same time?

I pretty much did a double post because i posted that last one of my phone and it crashed so i thought i didn't make it, apparently my brain doesn't work yet so i didn't check it.. D:

But yeah, the keys laying around is the biggest problem. People spent a good amount of time to complete the mission later when they have friends online and/or be able to play themselves for a longer period of time to complete the whole things for the mods.

Humongous fail in my eyes. Oh well, time to move on i suppose...

[Ditrysteve]

I just really don't see how anyone was blindsided by this. If the event was going to last for 5 days regardless of how many we did why would there have even been a bar? I know it sucks to not get a reward because you ran out of time or the bar got filled whatever. It sucks but it happens, you get what you get and you don't throw a fit. This event was far from perfect but I really don't understand how people didn't see the end coming. 

 

I could understand if you originally though this event would be five days, but after phase one it should have been clear there is a time table. 

[Djozar]

Look...you all know weekends are main times for events. If you have a job that requires you to work weekends, well...that's your problem not the developers. I know it pains you. It pains me to see you complain every single event in every single game.I didn't get my full points either. However, I accept that a Free To Play game such as this is bound to make mistakes. They all do. Free to Play or not. You do. I see you die in the game just as much as the devs make mistakes. Do they complain about us? No. They take all your lousy comments and childish tantrums with a smile and politely apologize and you still continue with your tantrums. "But it's not FAIR!!!" Tough! You want fair it will be in town shortly and you can ride all the rides you want. Till then life ain't fair so put your big girl panties on and deal with it! If you find you have to work then take a day off and tell your boss that kiling Grineer and Corpus was the reason why. Send your wives and kids off on an adventure without you as you sit there with your Mountain Dew and munchies for the weekend event. Then make sure to teach your kids how unfair not getting to play a game is as well. We need more kids with an inflated view of entitlement. Or you could just say "C'est La Vie" and enjoy the game for what it is and quit thinking everyone owes you something. 

[KF_Kenobi]

A reasonable answer. 

 

I found myself in a similar boat with the keys and farming since I was working much of Friday and Saturday on server migrations, so I didnt even get a start myself until Sunday morning.  Maybe you and I think a little differently, but I had automatically assumed that when the bar filled up the event was over so I forced it out in about 3~3.5 hours.

 

I guess bad things do happen to decent people.

 

 

Exactly, I feel the available information was open to reasonable misinterpretation.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

I was disappointed in many things with this alert:

 

* 300 missions for single players, 75 for full teams. I feel the balance here was not fair to single players at all. With the time we had, it made it extremely difficult for a single player to attain the 100 point goal.

* With the time that was alloted you would have to finish a mission approximately every 15 minutes in order to make the 100 goal point. (if you were playing solo) If you were in a full squad, you only had to finish a mission once per hour.

* The possibility of failing a third mission, thereby nullifying your two other missions which succeeded. I'm not saying you should automatically win the third mission, but having to farm another key just to fail again? That's way too punishing. Especially considering the increased difficulty towards the end. (so my 300 mission number above might be 350, or even 400 if you're a really bad/underleveled player)

 

However, DE has informed us that the mods will be available through missions later, AND we got the Grineer settlements, so really, not much lost here sans time invested. Plus we get to keep the exp and we got to go up against some new enemies in a totally weird environment.

 

How this event might have been better:

 

* Succeeding does not end the event (already suggested 1001 times)

* Each mission (farming both parts of each key) gives you one point

[Liminal]

I wonder if there were actually 100 points for each player to grab. If there were not, I agree the event was done wrong.

 

...hell, even if there were, why allow a player to get someone else's points?

[KF_Kenobi]

I just really don't see how anyone was blindsided by this. If the event was going to last for 5 days regardless of how many we did why would there have even been a bar?

 

To let us know how we're doing relative to how much time is left in the event. In the absence of other information (an absence acknowledged by DE) there's no particular reason to assume the event ends when the bar is full.

[Operator_Error]

But he didnt answer the question.  If he was very concerned about the rewards, he couldnt have found 35 minutes to do the keys he already had?

 

And quite frankly, I was working on web servers Friday and Saturday so I didnt participate on either of those days, so I get the real life stuff.  Unless he was stuck in the hospital or something, how can a person rationalize this reaction when they wouldn't find 35 minutes to complete the task while it still had points left on the completion bar?

 

Where are you getting the magic number of "35 minutes", just out of curiosity?

 

That number assumes that you have a 4-man group ready to roll, have the keys farmed, all have reliable connections, all know the general map layouts, and have rapid turn-over between games. It also assumes that you just burn through, and my girlfriend and I have had major synch issues in the last week or so, where doors don't open, or one of us locks up, and then we're buggered.

 

I've tried to play in 4-man's with her, and for whatever reason, if she doesn't host, she usually can't tell which mobs are already dead, or where her squadmates are, and it's intensely frustrating. That's with her using an otherwise completely reliable connection.

 

 

I wonder if there were actually 100 points for each player to grab. If there were not, I agree the event was done wrong.

 

...hell, even if there were, why allow a player to get someone else's points?

 

You might as well not even mention the whole "math" thing; I've tried to point out that the top 16 players farmed roughly 23,000 extra points, and been told it doesn't matter, because someone else would have farmed them instead, WHICH WAS EXACTLY MY F*CKING POINT ALL ALONG.

 

I've also pointed out that the top 16 players ranged from 2,769 points to 1,307 points, and since I don't know how many points the players below them had in excess of the 100 required for all 3 mods, we really don't know how many more people could have had more time to participate in the event.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Operator_Error

[Teorina]

I was disappointed in many things with this alert:

 

* 300 missions for single players, 75 for full teams.

 

Is it not 40 for a full team? 4 players run 14 alerts (7 of each) to gather 7 keys each.  They can now run voids 28 times but can expect to need 25 runs with an average 4 points per run making an average 39 missions or 40 for the sake of a round number?

[Amistyrja]

... Can DE just let us use our stocked keys before the deadline ends?

Edited August 13, 2013 by Amistyrja