notionphil Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Didn't want to throw him into the fire, so I sent hydrater a PM. another issue is that if you look at the livestream thread, 50% of the posters have 1 or 2 posts and are asking questions like: -"Will Volt get a buff?" -"When will we be able to switch chassis like we can swtich helmets?" -"Can alt helmets have no stats?" -"Can I name my sentinel?" -"Are you making an Akavasto?" -"Will there be a Stalker Prime?" Those are all great and valid questions but will have ZERO impact on the future of the game. This is why we need a Player Representative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) another issue is that if you look at the livestream thread, 50% of the posters have 1 or 2 posts and are asking questions like: -"Will Volt get a buff?" -"When will we be able to switch chassis like we can swtich helmets?" -"Can alt helmets have no stats?" -"Can I name my sentinel?" -"Are you making an Akavasto?" -"Will there be a Stalker Prime?" Those are all great and valid questions but will have ZERO impact on the future of the game. This is why we need a Player Representative. Exactly!!! I really don't want to waste precious livestream time with those questions that are trivial at this point. If everything in the OP's statement were to be addressed successfully, this game would be MAGIC. Hopefully he's up to the challenge. EDIT: What I meant to say; Those questions are important, but can definitely be addressed at a much later date (hell even after launch). The core of this game must be addressed, and the OPs post sums it up perfectly in my opinion. Fix all that stuff, and this game will be damn near a 10/10 as far as I'm concerned. Edited August 14, 2013 by Bakercompany86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icymountain Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Most points make sense, but have to disagree on the prime weapons. They are of superior technology, and it's stats should reflect that. However, they should make it literally an upgrade. Prime weapons should require their normal counterparts to create, and all forma/potatoes should be carried forward as well. The easiest way to do this would of course be a skin that gives it better stats, so they don't have to code extra for the forma/potato carry forward, and players can revert if they prefer the look of the normal ones. Though sounds will then have to be tied to the skins too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Most points make sense, but have to disagree on the prime weapons. They are of superior technology, and it's stats should reflect that. However, they should make it literally an upgrade. Prime weapons should require their normal counterparts to create, and all forma/potatoes should be carried forward as well. The easiest way to do this would of course be a skin that gives it better stats, so they don't have to code extra for the forma/potato carry forward, and players can revert if they prefer the look of the normal ones. Though sounds will then have to be tied to the skins too If Prime weapons were an evolved form of your current weapon where Catalysts and Forma carried over, I think the community would love it. Instead, you grind out an entirely different weapon, lose all progress thus far (minus the mod progress), and your old weapon is completely obsolete. I would love for Prime to be the evolution of your favorite weapon instead of a separate weapon that serves as a direct replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notionphil Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 If Prime weapons were an evolved form of your current weapon where Catalysts and Forma carried over, I think the community would love it. Instead, you grind out an entirely different weapon, lose all progress thus far (minus the mod progress), and your old weapon is completely obsolete. I would love for Prime to be the evolution of your favorite weapon instead of a separate weapon that serves as a direct replacement. agree 100%...i have a post abt that somewhere. Prime should require the base weapon, and when you craft it over you get the same number of formas you had put in. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 agree 100%...i have a post abt that somewhere. Prime should require the base weapon, and when you craft it over you get the same number of formas you had put in. IMO Maybe that's a change they'll consider. I don't care if the crafting requirements for the device to "Prime" your weapon is 2 to 3 times the weapons original cost. It's your "endgame" weapon upgrade, so it's worth it. DE gets more time played, players are happy and excited about it. Everybody wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavdl13 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 i agree with you, except with the prime weapons, they are really hard to obtain, farming and crafting, and they are acient weapons so they should be better, maybe they could make prime weapons unique instead of a better version of one of the existing ones, but they should be better nonetheless. at least thats my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 i agree with you, except with the prime weapons, they are really hard to obtain, farming and crafting, and they are acient weapons so they should be better, maybe they could make prime weapons unique instead of a better version of one of the existing ones, but they should be better nonetheless. at least thats my opinion. What I'm afraid of is that Prime weapons are an excuse for DE to squeeze more plat out of players for new Forma/Catalysts. Player will buy platinum if they're having fun. But if you force it on them there will come a time when they'll stop. The suggestion of an evolution piece is a method to make everyone happy. You can still have components of it available for platinum. Or you can spend a large amount of time grinding it out. Just don't waste the players time on the other forma/catalyst they have already had to grind out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoustacheMike Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 What I'm afraid of is that Prime weapons are an excuse for DE to squeeze more plat out of players for new Forma/Catalysts. Player will buy platinum if they're having fun. But if you force it on them there will come a time when they'll stop. The suggestion of an evolution piece is a method to make everyone happy. You can still have components of it available for platinum. Or you can spend a large amount of time grinding it out. Just don't waste the players time on the other forma/catalyst they have already had to grind out. Exactly. I'm sure I'm not the only player with tons of forma who isn't using them because of all that frustration with the prime weapon. I seriously don't want to be cheat, and I swear if they dare release a prime version of clan tech weapon I leave that game. All the time spent to polarize multiple time a weapon for nothing won't be fun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukedu_ Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 "Warframe needs an Endgame." "Well, we are going to let you see your high score for each node..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleesus Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 "Warframe needs an Endgame." "Well, we are going to let you see your high score for each node..." hahahaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Crap didn't realize the livestream is going right now.... Edit: They addressed just about everything I wanted them too =) Good guy DE Edited August 15, 2013 by Bakercompany86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashna Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 There is a saying. You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. Keep rolling DE. Seems a little harsh I know, but it has some merit in this case I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) EDIT: Rebecca actually addressed all of my concerns with the guys, and they responded in ways I would have hoped. My complains and concerns are quickly dwindling and are being replaced with pure excitement to play this game more!!! Edited August 15, 2013 by Bakercompany86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I quit reading when everone said MAKE OP TEH REPRESENTATIVE! WE HAVE A @(*()$ DESIGN COUNCIL! And I don't mean to say that like "hey you guys are idiots" I'm saying that because HOLY S#&$ THERES A @(*()$ DESIGN COUNCIL AND ALL THEY SEEM TO DO WITH IT IS FOCUS TEST S#&$ FOR THE MARKET If they won't take the feedback and criticism for people who dumped over 200 dollars into this game, what's to say that they'll listen to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) I quit reading when everone said MAKE OP TEH REPRESENTATIVE! WE HAVE A @(*()$ DESIGN COUNCIL! And I don't mean to say that like "hey you guys are idiots" I'm saying that because HOLY S#&$ THERES A @(*()$ DESIGN COUNCIL AND ALL THEY SEEM TO DO WITH IT IS FOCUS TEST S#&$ FOR THE MARKET If they won't take the feedback and criticism for people who dumped over 200 dollars into this game, what's to say that they'll listen to us? You're absolutely right buddy. My idea with the single representative was to clear up the chat apocalypse they see on the livestream. But we had almost 10,000 people on it today, no way we could get one voice through that anyway. EDIT: They addressed exactly what I had hoped they would, which was this thread. Great livestream DE, thank you for bring attention to this thread!!! Edited August 15, 2013 by Bakercompany86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notionphil Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I quit reading when everone said MAKE OP TEH REPRESENTATIVE! WE HAVE A @(*()$ DESIGN COUNCIL! And I don't mean to say that like "hey you guys are idiots" I'm saying that because HOLY S#&$ THERES A @(*()$ DESIGN COUNCIL AND ALL THEY SEEM TO DO WITH IT IS FOCUS TEST S#&$ FOR THE MARKET If they won't take the feedback and criticism for people who dumped over 200 dollars into this game, what's to say that they'll listen to us? Said one pessimistic guy in every 'lets form a bloc' meeting ever! Being heard isn't about paying $200 (I've spent over 100 anyway I think). Being heard happens when you make NOISE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 You know, your comparison between the Paris and Prime is pretty interesting. Paris: Mastery level 0. Acquire BPs from market and craft. Paris Prime: Mastery level 4. Run minimum of 5 void cap/def/mobile def missions with at least one of those being T3, but probably a lot more than that because you probably won't get the BPs or the parts you actually need on the first go. Craft. Yeah, I'm not really seeing the problem with Paris Prime rendering Paris obsolete, any more than I see the problem with Braton making Braton Mk 1 obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 You know, your comparison between the Paris and Prime is pretty interesting. Paris: Mastery level 0. Acquire BPs from market and craft. Paris Prime: Mastery level 4. Run minimum of 5 void cap/def/mobile def missions with at least one of those being T3, but probably a lot more than that because you probably won't get the BPs or the parts you actually need on the first go. Craft. Yeah, I'm not really seeing the problem with Paris Prime rendering Paris obsolete, any more than I see the problem with Braton making Braton Mk 1 obsolete. It's not that the weapons are more powerful than the other, although that is an issue when concerning power creep. It's more of an issue of time invested into the first weapon, farming catalysts and formas, and THEN they release the prime version. Rendering all of your work for naught, or just stick with an inferior weapon. This is less of an issue for new players who are coming on board with primes already implemented. But for vets it kinda sucks for them. I'm not a veteran so it doesn't affect me as much. Although we should all be concerned with power creep, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Said one pessimistic guy in every 'lets form a bloc' meeting ever! Being heard isn't about paying $200 (I've spent over 100 anyway I think). Being heard happens when you make NOISE. We've been making 'NOISE' for over 6 months now. They just 'tune' it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) EDIT: DE is listening, and responding positively =D Edited August 15, 2013 by Bakercompany86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDeadeye Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Maybe we need to find a way to make more noise? Or different noise? It is true that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. But through the internet, the noise of said wheel is drowned out a great deal automatically. If we had enough people messaging them directly maybe? But I don't want us to resort to spamming. And topics like these get little to no attention from what we can tell. Or the topic about cells for endgame, with over 400 upvotes. So how do we get their attention without ANNOYING them so they'll just want to tune us out more? I just quit playing, and amped up my complaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It's not that the weapons are more powerful than the other, although that is an issue when concerning power creep. It's more of an issue of time invested into the first weapon, farming catalysts and formas, and THEN they release the prime version. Rendering all of your work for naught, or just stick with an inferior weapon. I can't really give any credence to this argument. It's like oh noes, we have a gun that has a slightly lower max cap than this new gun! It's not like Paris Prime suddenly renders an original 8x forma'd potato paris unusable. It's still just as effective as it's always been - and more to the point, it will take an immense amount of forma, time, and effort for the paris prime to equal the hypothetical uberparis, much less be strictly superior. This is less of an issue for new players who are coming on board with primes already implemented. But for vets it kinda sucks for them. I'm not a veteran so it doesn't affect me as much. I'm a vet. I fed my braton a potato and forma'd it. Did I whine when Braton Prime was released? No. I farmed for it, then set about forma-ing it because it's so cool looking. Frankly, all these guys whining about primes need to get some perspective. Yeah, it's mildly sad that their old reliable gun has a new slightly better model that takes even more time and effort to acquire, but they're in no way entitled to getting to upgrade their guns to prime and keep the polarities/potatos etc, because their present gun is still just as effective as it's always been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakercompany86 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I can't really give any credence to this argument. It's like oh noes, we have a gun that has a slightly lower max cap than this new gun! It's not like Paris Prime suddenly renders an original 8x forma'd potato paris unusable. It's still just as effective as it's always been - and more to the point, it will take an immense amount of forma, time, and effort for the paris prime to equal the hypothetical uberparis, much less be strictly superior. I'm a vet. I fed my braton a potato and forma'd it. Did I whine when Braton Prime was released? No. I farmed for it, then set about forma-ing it because it's so cool looking. Frankly, all these guys whining about primes need to get some perspective. Yeah, it's mildly sad that their old reliable gun has a new slightly better model that takes even more time and effort to acquire, but they're in no way entitled to getting to upgrade their guns to prime and keep the polarities/potatos etc, because their present gun is still just as effective as it's always been. Does it make sense to possibly create an item that upgrades the previous version to the prime version? Maybe something with fairly steep grinding cost associated? And plat purchasable mats? That way everyone wins. At least to me that seems to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEEkAy2k9 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 what i am really upset about is the pure randomness this game is based on. i have been playing for some time now, reached mastery rank 8 (although reaching 7 was very easy as i played a lot and then just got bored). my fav. weapon right now is the braton, so i started ranking it up, polarizing (forma) and ranking it up again. guess what happened? braton prime got released. so now my weapon will always be inferior to the braton prime. ok i said, let's move on to the braton prime then. hell f*** that. you have to grind defense missions to randomly get a void key. then again you have to grind the void to randomly hope for all those parts + bp for the weapon you want to be dropped. i then said, f*** it im out. haven't been playing wf since then very much. the ocassional alert maybe and a few missions on weekendevents but that's it. - no way you can work your way to your weapon as this game is purely based on random drops. - weapon builds are always the same, no different builds in here. just damage damage damage and damage and then even more damage. - no variety - press 4 to win - otherwise just hold down shift and speed your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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