give World on Fire to Pablo

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb Arcira:

You can recast it but the duration won´t be refreshed. But I´d say 8s base duration and 25m base range is something you can work with...

At least his 1 has a point and 50% armor buf per enemy hit is huge and his buff has the same base value but can buff any kind of damage.

Since power management is a huge problem in Warframe ... Energizing Dash, Arcane Energize, Trinity, Streamline, Fleeting Expertise ... and it´s not like Rhino has the biggest energy consumption to begin with. His Stomp is the only abilities you need to spam sometimes.

Ye maybe just maybe Rhino isn´t that limited? His Hp and damge buffs work always and even his ultimate works against some bosses. Ever tried to do eidolon run, bosses or missions that don´t require you to just kill normal enemies with Ember´s abilities? Your abilities do nothing there. At least you can buff them with a 50% heat damage buff or place some firerings nobody cares about while they revive you every 3 seconds.

He is one of the best Warframes for one of the most op things in the entire game: weapons. Abilities are second class and fill the role as support by now.

 

 

Ye lets ignore flash accelerant, that the 50% stack or that it buffs radiation damage, what makes a big part of the damage to begin with. If you would've said volt then i'd maybe agree but dude... no.  And that stomp doesn't need to be recast because of his iron skin doesn't make it good Cc. Or did the reason for its buff go completely past you? His -current- survivability and the minor buff (because chroma got nerfed, not because it is good) are his only sellers. Embers Cc quantity, aoe and buffs on a more then sufficient survivability and power management arguably beat that with ease.

Edited June 5, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Dark_RRiderr]

WHO THE #*!% IS PABLO!?

[Arcira]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Ye lets ignore flash accelerant, that the 50% stack or that it buffs radiation damage, what makes a big part of the damage to begin with. If you would've said volt then i'd maybe agree but dude... no. 

I didn´t ignore it or other augments like Fireball Frenzy but you have to ask your self is this really worth a modslot? In addition elemental damage buff are calculated before elemental mods which makes +50% less valuable than +50% damage. People are saying she can tank so good with Qt+rage+flow and she can buff so much with her augments and damage is so good if you mod for power strength and and and with Overextend + other range mods the nerf isn´t that bad. May I ask a question? Did I miss a secret update that alows Ember to have ten times more modslots?

32 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And that stomp doesn't need to be recast because of his iron skin doesn't make it good Cc. Or did the reason for its buff go completely past you?

Where did I say that? His stomp is a very good source of cc and I´m not sure what Iron Skin has to do with it. And what buff are you talking about?

32 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

His -current- survivability and the minor buff (because chroma got nerfed, not because it is good) are his only sellers. Embers Cc quantity, aoe and buffs on a more then sufficient survivability arguably beat that with ease.

There are ways to make Ember work but that doesn´t mean she is good nor does it mean she is bad. However you need to invest much more into her while Rhino works very well without Forma, Life Strike, Arcnes, etc.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Arcira

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Arcira:

 

Where did I say that? His stomp is a very good source of cc and I´m not sure what Iron Skin has to do with it. And what buff are you talking about?

 

Not sure how long it's been since you decidet to join the forums but his iron skin was a topic for a very, very long time. His survivability was a topic in generall that stopped with this bandaid here making its way into the game.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ironclad_Charge

...the question here is if it's that great Cc if it is/was a topic to begin with. The only reason it works for him is iron skins current state. It's not that great Cc, neather in terms of quality nor quantity but he's now able to survive despite that. That's really all it is. And you know

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Arcira:

 

There are ways to make Ember work but that doesn´t mean she is good nor does it mean she is bad. However you need to invest much more into her while Rhino works very well without Forma, Life Strike, Arcnes, etc.

(Gonna blur our formas, that one is just silly) I'm generally an ash/oberon main so the only arcanes i've ever bothered with are strike and trickery so every acchievement i've had with ember so far has been without relying on arcanes that add that much to her survivability... sure strike is cool for a zenistar but that's about it. And life strike, that one is simply design. It makes sense for every rage tank to heal, that's not good or bad eather. It makes sense for her, it makes no sense for rhino. That's all it is. That one is a part of a rage tank, not the reason it works tho... i've liked the idea of an energy tank for a while..the idea of getting ehp trough damage, using it to feed abilities and to gain ehp, the entire berserker concept behind it so i've tried a few. I started with Volt, made some builds, tried buffing his speed but couldn't make it work due to the active nature of his abilities. The moment you stop casting or do not channel his shield, you're minced meat. He was a failure for me cause i had to choose between survival and energy gain.

I've tried old Saryn... got me the molt augument, built for lash but there really wasn't much she could do against enemy fire eather.

Played Valkyr a lot too. The actuall Berserker frame. But she's in the same boat as rhino.. what are you gonna use it for? .... not even that i'd say. She's worse off then rhino...or better off? Idk. Point is that i don't have to use energy on her like that. Ever. I literally have zero issues with min efficiency and that says something.

All of these had life strike too, they should've done great but they did not. Ember was the first frame on that playstyle that actually worked out for me. That gave me the exact results i've been looking for. High energy gain and stuff to use it for. Survivability that is adequate for this playstyle and actually works out. What i can take from that is that ember doesn't work because of life strike but that life strike works because of ember. That's quite the difference.

Edited June 5, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AtrusStrix]

As far as ember goes, I may be alone here in saying that yes she sucks. But, she's no weaker since the last time "nerfed" her. She's always been the least useful of the nuking Warframes. Other nuking Warframes like Banshee, Saryn, Mag, Volt, Frost, Equinox, Gara, Limbo, and Rhino all had other roles and benefits you could use the frame for even after the damage from big AoE abilities fell off.

However, Ember's whole focus was mainly around damage. So once her damage falls off, you're left with a mediocre class that doesn't do anything better than any other class.

CROWD CONTROL:

Her CC is no better than, and often inferior to, all the other frames previously mentioned. Accelerant is her best CC, but its range is only on par with Miasma but with a flat fixed 5 second duration. Fireblast only has a 15 meter knockdown which can't be improved. World on fire has a measly single target knockdown that you have to waste a mod slot to use, and has terrible minimum range and energy efficiency at full duration.

DAMAGE BUFFING SUPPORT:

Her support damage buffing abilities are even worse. Accelerant only buffs fire damage which forces you to use fire damage or be forced to use her next buffing ability Fireblast. Which forces you to stand inside of a small circle with no protection from damage like Volt's shields give you. The other two ways to get fire damage to make Accelerant useful also require wasting a mod slot on an augment mod.

OTHER SUPPORT:

Her other support roles are negligible or non-existent. She doesn't have any healing or other support buffs that aren't damage related.

SURVIVABILITY:

Out of the original list of nukers Ember could be considered the most fragile along with Banshee. However banshee still has more useful ways to avoid getting hit with a massive AoE knockdown which can sometimes CC and entire map, and silence which can be used very effectively to open enemies up to sneak attacks and stun them just long enough to give you time to kill them.  On the other side of the spectrum, you  can't even compare Ember's survivability to the nearly unkilllable Rhino, the immune to damage Limbo, the very defensive Gara and Frost, or even the reasonably tanky Saryn. Even the other somewhat squishy frames still have much better survivabilty like Volt's placable shields and nearly unparalleled CC, or mag's bullet traps and ability to massively heal her shields.

In short, Ember doesn't really do anything  better than any other frame. The only thing she really had going for her was her ability to speed run low level content with her World on Fire, but even that isn't any better than the ability maim on the much more versatile and useful frame of Equinox.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by AtrusStrix

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

Ever notice after a rework like embers 4 it has vanished from groups.  That tells you it didn't go over well.

[(PSN)Yetchii]

36 minutes ago, (PS4)SlyFox5679 said:

Ever notice after a rework like embers 4 it has vanished from groups.  That tells you it didn't go over well.

I just assumed it was the same thing as Ash players when he got a rework. Pretty sure the main difference was that they had to select targets for Bladestorm instead of just pressing the ability. That apparently killed Ash.. even though they gave him a way to be more energy efficient and he deals finisher damage. I bet the same thing would happen with Mesa if they got a rework and it was decided that you have to aim their 4 now, even if it cost less energy if you had Shooting gallery up while you're using it. "Their damage is the same but I have to aim now! Mesa is dead!" If it's no longer easy mode insta kills then most people just don't wanna know any more. 

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Yetchii said:

I just assumed it was the same thing as Ash players when he got a rework. Pretty sure the main difference was that they had to select targets for Bladestorm instead of just pressing the ability. That apparently killed Ash.. even though they gave him a way to be more energy efficient and he deals finisher damage. I bet the same thing would happen with Mesa if they got a rework and it was decided that you have to aim their 4 now, even if it cost less energy if you had Shooting gallery up while you're using it. "Their damage is the same but I have to aim now! Mesa is dead!" If it's no longer easy mode insta kills then most people just don't wanna know any more. 

Well good thing I don't use too many of those frames lol, I use mag and Nova prime.

[RealPandemonium]

On 2018-06-04 at 8:13 PM, ZBanx said:

edit: and yes, I'm still bitter that I no longer have a go-to for killing enemies quickly in survival thanks to the nerf.

New WoF can literally kill enemies faster than old WoF, and in higher levels WoF wasn't doing most of the killing anyway.  Nothing about this change affected killspeed in a bad way.