Syndicate decorations, not faction decorations

[Xarteros]

As much as I love my Corpus and Grineer objects, they don't really make much sense from a thematic standpoint. Why are Tenno building replica stuff of their enemies? I mean, I try to give it a thematic purpose by making "trophy halls" of each faction in my dojo, but there are ways we could make it better without removing any of the work DE have done.

1. Make Corpus decorations Perrin Sequence decorations. Make Grineer decorations Steel Meridian decorations. Add relevant flags/banners, and maybe a few more decorations to each
2. Add the other syndicate decorations over time. Red Veil would get some burning trees, chains, maybe some torture tables (as per the relay), New Loka would get some earthy plants and shriney stuff, Cephalon Suda would get some datascape holographic stuff, and Arbiters of Hexis would get some of their Tenno-like stuff, but a bit more grim
3. Optionally add Cephalon Simaris and Conclave syndicates to the decoration pool
4. Add special decorations to Syndicate purchases, tradeable between players and donatable to dojos. Stuff could include flags/banners, fancier centrepiece decorations, items with special effects etc.

Doesn't remove anything DE have put in, but gives a more clear theme to what they have. Allows plenty of room for expansion, with a huge surplus of options for players to decorate with. Gives another use for syndicate farming (not all players spend all their time selling syndicate mods and weapons), to keep the players engaged, and allows DE to simply utilise graphical resources they've already created (they just need to slap resource costs on them, and make sure their collision meshes scale with size)

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

Why not both options? The more the better. Love the addition of faction stuff and surely will love if syndicate stuff gets added.

Also NPC's that we could place would be great.

[Lone_Dude]

So you just want devs to rename stuff that we currently have and add more decorations?

Personally, I don't have anything against copying style of your enemies. I actually like it. Stuff like crates/containers/computers can be used as if you stole it from your enemies and use it for your own good. Banners can be used for mockery. Walls and pillars are just like bricks. Like, I get that Grineer decorations look distinctly Grineer, but Iron Wake is made of them as well. It's just like calling germans nazis because they live in houses that were built during reign of Hitler, unless they place a giant sign in front of their door that says IMNOTANAZI. There are good Grineer and bad Grineer, both use same style, only insignia is different, what's the point of renaming stuff that doesn't even have that insignia on it or carry a certain message? It's kind of pointless imo and might remove more than it might add. At least for me.

Other than that, I would like to see more decorations added in, both faction and syndicate-specific.

[Xarteros]

On 2018-06-10 at 9:07 AM, Lone_Dude said:

So you just want devs to rename stuff that we currently have and add more decorations?

Personally, I don't have anything against copying style of your enemies. I actually like it. Stuff like crates/containers/computers can be used as if you stole it from your enemies and use it for your own good. Banners can be used for mockery. Walls and pillars are just like bricks. Like, I get that Grineer decorations look distinctly Grineer, but Iron Wake is made of them as well. It's just like calling germans nazis because they live in houses that were built during reign of Hitler, unless they place a giant sign in front of their door that says IMNOTANAZI. There are good Grineer and bad Grineer, both use same style, only insignia is different, what's the point of renaming stuff that doesn't even have that insignia on it or carry a certain message? It's kind of pointless imo and might remove more than it might add. At least for me.

Other than that, I would like to see more decorations added in, both faction and syndicate-specific.

Renaming it and adding a few more syndicate themed items to Corpus/Grineer is a tiny change that makes it much more thematically sensible. Yes, there are good Grineer. Like the Steel Meridian. Yes, there are good Corpus. Like the Perrin Sequence.

Making them Syndicate themed means DE have more room to expand the decorations. They have 4 other factions to toy with, and there is a heap of existing content they can just make use of, like all the Red Veil stuff from Harrow's quest.

It doesn't remove anything they have, it makes more room for stuff they've already made, and it opens up doors for more content in the future, whilst allowing players to greatly diversify their decorations. I'm struggling to see a downside.

[Koldraxon-732]

Adding a Syndicate section for Grineer/Corpus/Tenno/Orokin and, inevitably, Sentient (with Hunhow pink, Natah red, and Lotus purple colours available) decor is the best approach and would allow DE to merely reskin existing assets to their Syndicate colourations, thus adding more content for half the effort.

Also, we steal from our enemies. Why not be honourable thieves and use the materials to rebuild their stuff in our places?

[Xarteros]

2 hours ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

Adding a Syndicate section for Grineer/Corpus/Tenno/Orokin and, inevitably, Sentient (with Hunhow pink, Natah red, and Lotus purple colours available) decor is the best approach and would allow DE to merely reskin existing assets to their Syndicate colourations, thus adding more content for half the effort.

Also, we steal from our enemies. Why not be honourable thieves and use the materials to rebuild their stuff in our places?

We're not thieves 😛

To Quote Iskandar, King of Conquerors: "There is a big difference. A cowardly thief would sneak away in the night. The King of Conquerors leaves with his loot amidst songs of victory!"

[Koldraxon-732]

5 hours ago, Xarteros said:

We're not thieves 😛

We're thieving conquerors; we kill everything we encounter relentlessly, leave almost no survivors to tell frightening stories about us, and most importantly, leave all the lockers unlocked and opened. No crate left unbroken.

[Lone_Dude]

12 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Renaming it and adding a few more syndicate themed items to Corpus/Grineer is a tiny change that makes it much more thematically sensible. Yes, there are good Grineer. Like the Steel Meridian. Yes, there are good Corpus. Like the Perrin Sequence.

Making them Syndicate themed means DE have more room to expand the decorations. They have 4 other factions to toy with, and there is a heap of existing content they can just make use of, like all the Red Veil stuff from Harrow's quest.

It doesn't remove anything they have, it makes more room for stuff they've already made, and it opens up doors for more content in the future, whilst allowing players to greatly diversify their decorations. I'm struggling to see a downside.

How is it more thematically sensible? What's the point? Why not just add another category? Removing faction categories outright reduces amount of stuff you can do with decorations.

Right now you can have decorations of Grineer faction. So you can for example build something like a room that has all of the stuff that you pillaged from Grineer. You can use decorations to create some kind of Grineer lab or Steel Meridian room. If you rename it all to Steel Meridian it will just look stupid, because I took stuff from my allies and store it in a messy way for some reason, while other room is tidy and organised. You just reduce amount options that players might have. Why would you even do that? Is there not enough space in UI or something? Just add Steel Meridian stuff and keep Grineer in. You can mix both and it will still be thematically appropriate. If you just make EVERYTHING to be Steel Meridian/syndycate, decorations will not be as flexible atmosphere/roleplay-wise.

Like, I don't even know how to explain. You basically have exactly this problem right now. You feel as if we're copying stuff of our enemies and it makes no sense to you. If say faction categories get removed I will have the same problem, but for me it will be "Damn, I copy stuff that my allies have and use it as if I took it from my enemies". Just adding new categories is a perfect compromise. You can still have full-on enemy-themed rooms, but just adding some syndicate stuff will allow you to turn it into an ally-themed room.

I'm all for addition of new stuff, because doing that will allow decorations to have a lot more flexibility theme-wise, but removing themes that we already have is just senseless. Like, even faction-based syndicates themselves follow that idea. They're built ON TOP of factions that they were a part of, they use their style, sane bits of their ideology, but have their own unique twist to it.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Lone_Dude
Fixed some typos.

[Xarteros]

15 hours ago, Lone_Dude said:

How is it more thematically sensible? What's the point? Why not just add another category? Removing faction categories outright reduces amount of stuff you can do with decorations.

Right now you can have decorations of Grineer faction. So you can for example build something like a room that has all of the stuff that you pillaged from Grineer. You can use decorations to create some kind of Grineer lab or Steel Meridian room. If you rename it all to Steel Meridian it will just look stupid, because I took stuff from my allies and store it in a messy way for some reason, while other room is tidy and organised. You just reduce amount options that players might have. Why would you even do that? Is there not enough space in UI or something? Just add Steel Meridian stuff and keep Grineer in. You can mix both and it will still be thematically appropriate. If you just make EVERYTHING to be Steel Meridian/syndycate, decorations will not be as flexible atmosphere/roleplay-wise.

Like, I don't even know how to explain. You basically have exactly this problem right now. You feel as if we're copying stuff of our enemies and it makes no sense to you. If say faction categories get removed I will have the same problem, but for me it will be "Damn, I copy stuff that my allies have and use it as if I took it from my enemies". Just adding new categories is a perfect compromise. You can still have full-on enemy-themed rooms, but just adding some syndicate stuff will allow you to turn it into an ally-themed room.

I'm all for addition of new stuff, because doing that will allow decorations to have a lot more flexibility theme-wise, but removing themes that we already have is just senseless. Like, even faction-based syndicates themselves follow that idea. They're built ON TOP of factions that they were a part of, they use their style, sane bits of their ideology, but have their own unique twist to it.

Look, I'd settle for just getting new categories, I just think it's pointless to have two nearly empty syndicate categories, since the Corpus and Grineer stuff have their own tab.

Also, as far as themes go, I just feel like it doesn't make enough sense to steal Grineer water pumps, or Corpus pipes. Wouldn't we be stealing more banners, toppled statues, destroyed fragments of major enemies (like Jackal's head, or bits of Vey Hek's terra frame), and overall 'trophy' stuff? I still feel like it makes more sense to build machinery that accommodates our syndicate allies, rather than having non-functional (or RP-only functioning) Grineer and Corpus equipment that is meant to represent our plunder. An army that conquers a city doesn't steal the bricks and mortar, they steel the valuables, or the symbolic things that show off their deeds.

Ultimately, I just want extra stuff, but it'd seem weird to add in the Syndicates if Steel Meridian and Perrin Sequence either doubled up on existing decorations, or had very little compared to the other syndicates.

[Lone_Dude]

First, excuse me if I sound rude, english is not my native language, so I make use of words and phrases that I've heard native speakers use and my knowledge of actual etiquette is rather lacking.

9 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Look, I'd settle for just getting new categories, I just think it's pointless to have two nearly empty syndicate categories, since the Corpus and Grineer stuff have their own tab.

Categories don't have to be empty, because devs could add different stuff into each category. Or just add same objects but with syndicate insignias/colors/details. It depends on how much work they're willing to put into it and how serious they are about it.

9 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Also, as far as themes go, I just feel like it doesn't make enough sense to steal Grineer water pumps, or Corpus pipes. Wouldn't we be stealing more banners, toppled statues, destroyed fragments of major enemies (like Jackal's head, or bits of Vey Hek's terra frame), and overall 'trophy' stuff?

You don't have to steal it. What, do you use Limbo to open an interdimentional portal between your dojo and some random Uranus base to take some TOOBEs from Tyl Regor? Is that how you build your dojo? I personally use blueprints. Jokes aside though, I already explained how it works. Syndicates are PARTS OF FACTIONS. What we're lacking right now is a way to show that. That kind of upsets me too, because I have an entire hall transformed in Grineer-Corpus-styled factory and it feels kind of weird because I can't place any banners or signs, since all of them are enemy-related and don't fit there. I also explained why you shouldn't remove already existing decoration categories and how it works rp-wise. I agree with your point about trophies though, but it just means that removing faction categories is even more of a pointless change.

9 hours ago, Xarteros said:

I still feel like it makes more sense to build machinery that accommodates our syndicate allies, rather than having non-functional (or RP-only functioning) Grineer and Corpus equipment that is meant to represent our plunder. An army that conquers a city doesn't steal the bricks and mortar, they steel the valuables, or the symbolic things that show off their deeds.

And how are decorations supposed to be "functional"? Renaming them into syndicate decorations will somehow allow you to use them in-game to gain some kind of knowledge/resources/pump non-existing water? What?

I gave you example of 2 options in my previous comment:

On 2018-06-12 at 5:26 PM, Lone_Dude said:

Right now you can have decorations of Grineer faction. So you can for example build something like a room that has all of the stuff that you pillaged from Grineer. You can use decorations to create some kind of Grineer lab or Steel Meridian room.

and you only focused on one. So I'll explain in detail.

Let's work with easy concepts to explain that example:

• You place stuff in some messy way(make it look like an unorganized storage if it's something like crates, barrels or water pumps) - it's pillaged.
• You place stuff in a tidy way(make it look as if it's some factory, crates placed near each other at perfect angles, water pumps connected to pipes) - it's not pillaged.
• If DE add syndicate categories (in a worst way possible, and they won't have their own alternative decorations, and only some additional ones) you will still be able to transform your nicely-built faction themed rooms into syndicate ones by adding certain syndicate-related details and creating a theme. That's kind of what decorating is.
• You will be able to have it both ways. Enemy-faction rooms and ally-syndicate rooms.
• Just like SYNDICATES are PARTS OF FACTIONS that went rogue and oppose them, their decorations have style of their faction and can be used in conjunction with faction decorations, but will have certain differences to them. It's just like brand clothing. Adidas shirt is still a damn shirt. What makes it special is a brand.
• But if you just remove faction categories entirely and replace them with syndicate categories you will have syndicate-themed rooms ONLY. Messy room will look just like some unorganized syndicate storage. And just like you have to currently force yourself to believe that Grineer stuff that you've built is actually Steel Meridian, I will have to force myself to believe that stuff that I've built is not related to Steel Meridian and is purely Grineer. As evident from our current conversation names of things matter for people like you and me a lot.

About that whole stealing thing, are syndicates thieves as well because they use style of the faction that they're related to but oppose? If you go with that logic you're their partner in crime because you take stolen stuff from them, no? If army conquers a city, do they destroy it and rebuild it in it's entierty because using buildings that are present is a theft, or do they just take valuables and run away? Isn't that exactly what pillagers and not noble warriors do? I'm willing to bet my ass that during wars soldiers didn't care much about using enemy weaponry and especially something like bricks, mortar and mortarS. I wouldn't want to have no roof over my head or wall to take a cover behind and lack firepower just because I'm too proud to use something that my enemy used. That's not how real war works. Just take finnish snipers for example, their rifles were modified by parts that they got from soviet rifles. During war you use anything you can and take anything that has any use. Heh, by your logic tenno should just ignore low tier resources like ferrite and all non-tenno weapons. But that's just going overboard I guess.

Also, you talk a lot about army and honor, and well I had some experience with military. No one gives a crap about honor oaths where I served. Soldiers there are animals and steal from their comrades and friends - no regrets. Rats are not punished. You act smart, act funny and might wake up in the middle of the night with a blade at your throat. Try to fight back and you'll get ganked. Most people don't even know how to read. And I'm not talking about privates only. Some people get stuck there because of debt and blackmail. I made it out unscathed but it wasn't easy. No wonder we see things differently, eh?

What you propose in your post is to wipe out what we have currently, just to suit your vision, instead of adding stuff on top, to increase amount of options we have no matter what our creative goal is. It's the same as me saying: "Hey, DE, don't add syndicate categories and decorations, just add faction stuff, because to me it seems weird that we use stuff of our allies because I see all tenno as thieves, murderers and pillaging sicko mercenearies that give no crap about oaths of honor, especially now that Lotus is gone!" because I am satisfied by current state of things. There is a difference between reducing amout of options you have and increasing them.

I completely agree with your ideas of adding syndicate-related decorations and faction-based trophies, as well as necessity of providing players with a way to see difference between them, but I find removal of already existing world-building elements to be absolutely uncalled for.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Lone_Dude
Fixed history-related mistake.

[Xarteros]

6 hours ago, Lone_Dude said:

First, excuse me if I sound rude, english is not my native language, so I make use of words and phrases that I've heard native speakers use and my knowledge of actual etiquette is rather lacking.

Categories don't have to be empty, because devs could add different stuff into each category. Or just add same objects but with syndicate insignias/colors/details. It depends on how much work they're willing to put into it and how serious they are about it.

You don't have to steal it. What, do you use Limbo to open an interdimentional portal between your dojo and some random Uranus base to take some TOOBEs from Tyl Regor? Is that how you build your dojo? I personally use blueprints. Jokes aside though, I already explained how it works. Syndicates are PARTS OF FACTIONS. What we're lacking right now is a way to show that. That kind of upsets me too, because I have an entire hall transformed in Grineer-Corpus-styled factory and it feels kind of weird because I can't place any banners or signs, since all of them are enemy-related and don't fit there. I also explained why you shouldn't remove already existing decoration categories and how it works rp-wise. I agree with your point about trophies though, but it just means that removing faction categories is even more of a pointless change.

And how are decorations supposed to be "functional"? Renaming them into syndicate decorations will somehow allow you to use them in-game to gain some kind of knowledge/resources/pump non-existing water? What?

I gave you example of 2 options in my previous comment:

and you only focused on one. So I'll explain in detail.

Let's work with easy concepts to explain that example:

• You place stuff in some messy way(make it look like an unorganized storage if it's something like crates, barrels or water pumps) - it's pillaged.
• You place stuff in a tidy way(make it look as if it's some factory, crates placed near each other at perfect angles, water pumps connected to pipes) - it's not pillaged.
• If DE add syndicate categories (in a worst way possible, and they won't have their own alternative decorations, and only some additional ones) you will still be able to transform your nicely-built faction themed rooms into syndicate ones by adding certain syndicate-related details and creating a theme. That's kind of what decorating is.
• You will be able to have it both ways. Enemy-faction rooms and ally-syndicate rooms.
• Just like SYNDICATES are PARTS OF FACTIONS that went rogue and oppose them, their decorations have style of their faction and can be used in conjunction with faction decorations, but will have certain differences to them. It's just like brand clothing. Adidas shirt is still a damn shirt. What makes it special is a brand.
• But if you just remove faction categories entirely and replace them with syndicate categories you will have syndicate-themed rooms ONLY. Messy room will look just like some unorganized syndicate storage. And just like you have to currently force yourself to believe that Grineer stuff that you've built is actually Steel Meridian, I will have to force myself to believe that stuff that I've built is not related to Steel Meridian and is purely Grineer. As evident from our current conversation names of things matter for people like you and me a lot.

About that whole stealing thing, are syndicates thieves as well because they use style of the faction that they're related to but oppose? If you go with that logic you're their partner in crime because you take stolen stuff from them, no? If army conquers a city, do they destroy it and rebuild it in it's entierty because using buildings that are present is a theft, or do they just take valuables and run away? Isn't that exactly what pillagers and not noble warriors do? I'm willing to bet my ass that during wars soldiers didn't care much about using enemy weaponry and especially something like bricks, mortar and mortarS. I wouldn't want to have no roof over my head or wall to take a cover behind and lack firepower just because I'm too proud to use something that my enemy used. That's not how real war works. Just take finnish snipers for example, their rifles were modified by parts that they got from soviet rifles. During war you use anything you can and take anything that has any use. Heh, by your logic tenno should just ignore low tier resources like ferrite and all non-tenno weapons. But that's just going overboard I guess.

Also, you talk a lot about army and honor, and well I had some experience with military. No one gives a crap about honor oaths where I served. Soldiers there are animals and steal from their comrades and friends - no regrets. Rats are not punished. You act smart, act funny and might wake up in the middle of the night with a blade at your throat. Try to fight back and you'll get ganked. Most people don't even know how to read. And I'm not talking about privates only. Some people get stuck there because of debt and blackmail. I made it out unscathed but it wasn't easy. No wonder we see things differently, eh?

What you propose in your post is to wipe out what we have currently, just to suit your vision, instead of adding stuff on top, to increase amount of options we have no matter what our creative goal is. It's the same as me saying: "Hey, DE, don't add syndicate categories and decorations, just add faction stuff, because to me it seems weird that we use stuff of our allies because I see all tenno as thieves, murderers and pillaging sicko mercenearies that give no crap about oaths of honor, especially now that Lotus is gone!" because I am satisfied by current state of things. There is a difference between reducing amout of options you have and increasing them.

I completely agree with your ideas of adding syndicate-related decorations and faction-based trophies, as well as necessity of providing players with a way to see difference between them, but I find removal of already existing world-building elements to be absolutely uncalled for.

I've already agreed that the most important thing is the inclusion of syndicate decorations, to utilise the wealth of content they have already made, and give a huge boost to decoration diversity. I don't get why you're so hung up on the one notion that Grineer and Corpus decorations should belong to their respective factions.

I'm not really wording my responses as clearly as I can, I'm in a rush usually so I don't have time to proof read. Saying that decorations were 'functional' was a bit misspoken perhaps. Building Tenno stuff like Tenno AI systems, Tenno Energy Conduits etc make sense for a Tenno Dojo. Since our technology is derived from the Orokin, it also makes sense for us to build certain Orokin items too. Faction things are just a different leap. Why would Tenno construct Grineer pumps, or Corpus power conduits, when they've got their own way of transferring water and power? Using their weapons is one thing, using their plumbing is entirely another. However, when you make allies with someone who uses different technology to you, it suddenly makes heaps of sense. Not only will they feel more welcome, but they will have a better understanding of their own tech, and they will be more useful with it.

Regarding the topic of 'theft'. An army conquering a city takes the loot and departs (typically), we both agree on that. What they don't normally do, however, is leave the battlefiield and use their loot to fund the construction of a mock city. If you're a soldier assaulting a Nazi war camp in WWII, you don't take a blueprint of a Nazi flag to make at home when you return. You steal a flag, because it's only the plunder that has any value beyond historic value. I mean, you could argue that we build Corpus and Grineer stuff to preserve it historically, but I still don't really care either way. I just want syndicate stuff, and it's my personal opinion that it would make more sense to combine categories where relevant.

Also, you keep making it sound like I'm calling for all the items to be removed ("removal of already existing world-building elements"?). I don't want any of them removed. I just think it makes more sense if they are syndicate items. And again, that's not as important to me as simply adding the other syndicate stuff is. At the end of the day, I just like the idea of decorating a Temple of Honour with cool syndicate stuff, and none of the current Grineer/Corpus decorations really do that idea justice (bar a few flags)