Enemies Should Not Drop Loot

[Symbiont71]

A few problems with this idea:

-A rusher runs ahead of the group to the room and opens all of the containers and lootables. The rest of the party gets to the room just in time to watch everything despawn.

Why the current system is better on this point? Even if there is a lone rusher in the group at least the rest of the group can get a decent amount of loot from the enemies we kill on our way to the objective.

-A rusher runs ahead and loots the room and then the map marker updates to point to the extraction, good luck finding the loot room, and this just compounds the first thing.

-There is now literally NO point in killing enemies. In the current system you kill enemies and you get loot. Without that loot there really isn't any point to not rushing through the levels as the enemies are now just armored blobs that get in your way.

-This would lead to a MASSIVE reduction in overall loot gains per mission, which would just make this game into even more of a grind than it currently is.

 

there are ways to build the system without having to worry about these points:

-make loot never despawn,

-the objective marker would never lead to loot rooms before the objective is completed,

-enemies would still hold ALL the exp, energy, hp, ammo drops,

-there is no point in killing all the enemies in a mission when your objective is to sabotage that ship - we're ninja with an assigned mission - unless it's an exterminate mission or you really want all the exp.

-enemies could still have a chance to drop mods, but for stuff they use, like someone suggested above me

 

There are ways, they really exist. It's just that the system must be implemented the RIGHT way.

 

I'm not saying that this new system is necessary, i only want to point out that the suggestion has the potential to be something original and fit the world of Warframe.

[Zombie_Sprinklez]

I think this idea could be implemented ONLY for defense. When your team decides that they have had enough, they could get into an elevator taking them to a loot room.

 

Rewards for this room depend on how far you went on defending.

[jucarojinmu]

Going to a loot room after every 5 wave defense is moot and pointless. Why not have DE give you all the rewards every 5 waves and save you all the running around a loot room clearing loot.

[Rottae]

I think this system sounds awesome, Adds more gameplay (Players need to actively search for a lootroom to get Mods/mats, which can be anything from factories or armories) but the current tile-sets would need more variation.

I like the idea that enemies simply drop energy, health and ammo maybe the odd creds or two.

Bosses should although drop keys to "hidden" lootrooms where the loot is easily accessable to everyone, also minibosses that drop rare mods (Stalkerish)

All missions should get a reward for completion that is useful (1 rank 3 fusion core for every 10 levels of the average enemy level or something) so that rushing can still be an option, then it's a question to whatever or not rushing is more effective for fusing strength or you want the chance to get epic new mods.

Defense missions are still a problem, but can be solved with either the current loottables (cept you get all the mods that show up) + upgrading the fusion cores 1 level for every 15 waves you do or something like that with no other drops.

Edit: Sorry for going offtopic at points

Edited August 19, 2013 by Rottae

[basilioss]

This would take away the whole point of running bosses and defense. 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:/

[Symbiont71]

This would take away the whole point of running bosses and defense. 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

:/

 

going to a loot room after the boss doesn't change to point of running bosses.

Defense? That can work out too.

[Phatose]

No thank you.  Warframe isn't just about style - it's about murder in style.

It's a game about killing lots of things.  It is not Zelda.

I'm here to be a mass murdering space ninja, not Dora the Explorer.

[Tsukinoki]

-Snip-

-the objective marker would never lead to loot rooms before the objective is completed,

-Snip-

-there is no point in killing all the enemies in a mission when your objective is to sabotage that ship - we're ninja with an assigned mission - unless it's an exterminate mission or you really want all the exp.

-Snip-

To answer point 1:

What I was saying is: rusher runs ahead and completes objective.  Then before anyone can do anything he runs into the loot room and loots it.  The objective then updates to extraction.  He just screwed 3 people out of ALL of the loot in the mission, instead of just the small amount he would have in the current system.

That turns rushers into legitiment trolls.

For point 2:

The current point in killing enemies is the LOOT right now.  Without the loot all you're doing when you kill enemies is just waste time.  In the current system you actually get a reward for killing.  Without the chance of getting something it turns the missions from relatively fun run-n-gun shooters to kill enemies and get the drops to run-n-gun, but do try to avoid enemies as killing them serves no purpose other than to waste time and ammo.

[Rottae]

-snip-

For point 2:

The current point in killing enemies is the LOOT right now.  Without the loot all you're doing when you kill enemies is just waste time.  In the current system you actually get a reward for killing.  Without the chance of getting something it turns the missions from relatively fun run-n-gun shooters to kill enemies and get the drops to run-n-gun, but do try to avoid enemies as killing them serves no purpose other than to waste time and ammo.

 

I find this interesting, Because enemies should imo be Time wastes (Albeit dangerous ones), you shouldn't have to search a map for 26 more grineers if the mission doesn't intend for it, If you are there to destroy the reactor, that is what you should be focusing on doing, if you are there to defend a cryopod, defend that cryopod and if you are there to murder every living thing on the ship, then it is time for some classic Search and Destroy.

Giving us reasons to search through our surroundings, would not stop rushing if you add "mission" completion rewards outside of creds, zoom out three or so posts and you will see some suggestion to it (This might not be balanced ways). making us think "hmm, rushing this mission might give me more fusion power then if I loot and search." instead of rushing being the only valuable action.

This would ofcourse have to open up a way to know if this is a small, medium, large or huge map so people can plan ahead.

Enemies should be bigger threats (NOT stronger) because right now, the only tuning they have is how many shots they take and how many shots it takes for them to kill you.

[DreadScourge]

How about with each wave of defense, a door opens with loot in it, scaling based on the round. You will have a minute between then and the next 5 waves to go grab the loot.

 

Cmon guys, support this idea. The current loot system is so generic (and greatly hinders the gameplay IMO).

 

It's good to take risks in game development okay?

[DreadScourge]

To answer point 1:

What I was saying is: rusher runs ahead and completes objective.  Then before anyone can do anything he runs into the loot room and loots it.  The objective then updates to extraction.  He just screwed 3 people out of ALL of the loot in the mission, instead of just the small amount he would have in the current system.

That turns rushers into legitiment trolls.

Co-op doors.

[Carcharias]

Interesting idea. You'd almost have to implement a new energy system. I would rather see cool downs as all my frames have a reactor that should be providing "energy." Short CD for #1 ability and progressively longer CD for #4 ability. I think unfortunately, that there would still be rushers. My stance on your suggestion remains neutral over all.

 

I would like to point out though that the trailers are just that, trailers. (IE: not game play) Nothing more, nothing less. Just because you see something in a trailer does not mean you can do that in the game. I do not agree with these cinematic trailers, but that's the way it is. I think trailers would be a LOT more helpful if they showed 100% actual game play footage instead of pretty pre-rendered movies that kinda looks like the game it is supposedly advertising.

 

Not hateing on Warframe's trailers specifically, just an opinion on game trailers in general and Warframe's trailers (as cool as they are) fit the stereotype of showing a bunch of cool looking scenes with little to no game play footage or relevance to the game.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Carcharias

[Symbiont71]

Interesting idea. You'd almost have to implement a new energy system. I would rather see cool downs as all my frames have a reactor that should be providing "energy." Short CD for #1 ability and progressively longer CD for #4 ability. I think unfortunately, that there would still be rushers. My stance on your suggestion remains neutral over all.

 

I would like to point out though that the trailers are just that, trailers. (IE: not game play) Nothing more, nothing less. Just because you see something in a trailer does not mean you can do that in the game. I do not agree with these cinematic trailers, but that's the way it is. I think trailers would be a LOT more helpful if they showed 100% actual game play footage instead of pretty pre-rendered movies that kinda looks like the game it is supposedly advertising.

 

Not hateing on Warframe's trailers specifically, just an opinion on game trailers in general and Warframe's trailers (as cool as they are) fit the stereotype of showing a bunch of cool looking scenes with little to no game play footage or relevance to the game.

 

WAAAT?!

 

Dude, you're waaaay off topic. We're discussing loot system, not energy/cooldown/trailers. You might have posted in the wrong topic.

[Symbiont71]

To answer point 1:

What I was saying is: rusher runs ahead and completes objective.  Then before anyone can do anything he runs into the loot room and loots it.  The objective then updates to extraction.  He just screwed 3 people out of ALL of the loot in the mission, instead of just the small amount he would have in the current system.

That turns rushers into legitiment trolls.

For point 2:

The current point in killing enemies is the LOOT right now.  Without the loot all you're doing when you kill enemies is just waste time.  In the current system you actually get a reward for killing.  Without the chance of getting something it turns the missions from relatively fun run-n-gun shooters to kill enemies and get the drops to run-n-gun, but do try to avoid enemies as killing them serves no purpose other than to waste time and ammo.

 

to answer 1:

Like someone suggested before, loot rooms will have co-op doors. And these rooms are either exactly before the extraction, needing no waypoint but the one for extraction, either hidded and you have to look for them. There ARE so MANY way to do this right. 

 

2:

Where's the logic in a ninja going to a spaceship to destroy the reactor core and ending up exterminating? seriously. You're there with a mission. You complete it and you're out, ninja style. You want loot? You find rooms filled with loot. Enemies don't carry ores with them.

 

You are concerned that people will not kill enemies anymore. They will, we just need to give a reason. They can rush to the loot rooms and miss out on, let's say "keys" dropped by elites, that give waypoints to hidden loot rooms and also open them. Just an example.

 

And enemies will still be the main exp frame / weapon exp. You want more exp? Go defend. You want more drops? Do missions.

We really need to find a balance. Having only one or two viable mission types is wrong and game-killing.

 

You are raising completely logical problems and i like that, because that's how brainstorms work and this is how you develop a system that's not broken.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Symbiont71

[NotBot]

Enemies dropping things is a necessary weasel of the process. It doesn't make sense, but without it, people who like to make every enemy thoroughly dead will be the Explorers of the new system, while those who bypass enemies for loot rooms will become the new Rushers. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, and so on.

 

Meanwhile, lockers simply aren't rewarding enough to be worth the effort to open. I personally never even bother with them unless I'm waiting at extraction. The uselessness of loot boxes is what really should be addressed, not the idea of enemies dropping loot. 

-snap-

This is a good idea, because it allows for equal efficiency in both styles of play. It may not reconcile the two styles, but that coming update DE has in mind should at least keep them separate so as not to interfere with each other.

[Carcharias]

WAAAT?!

 

Dude, you're waaaay off topic. We're discussing loot system, not energy/cooldown/trailers. You might have posted in the wrong topic.

 

 

 

The time limit to pick up resources exacerbates this issue -- often getting a drop is more urgent than killing an enemy.This produces boring gameplay, and distracted players who are watching the bottom of the screen mid-fight to see what exactly they just picked up. If we ever want gameplay like that depicted in the trailers become the norm, loot drops have to go. 

 

Loot rooms imply that the items within are rare and controlled substances,

 

I did post in this thread on purpose, I just addressed the OP. The only possible confusion may be the definition of loot, I was thinking all drops excluding ammo. If OP is just talking about resources then my energy observation is mute. Depends on how you define "controlled substance".

 

Did you read the OP?

Edited August 20, 2013 by Carcharias

[Symbiont71]

I did post in this thread on purpose, I just addressed the OP. The only possible confusion may be the definition of loot, I was thinking all drops excluding ammo. If OP is just talking about resources then my energy observation is mute. Depends on how you define "controlled substance".

 

Did you read the OP?

 

yes, that was the confusion. I think he was referring to drops as in mats/mods. There is no point in taking energy orbs and ammo drops from enemies, so even with the new system, they'd still drop those.

 

Sorry for that. Since everyone is discussing drops here, i forgot the OP even mentioned trailers.

[Carcharias]

No worries lol. It has been a long day, you made me go back and reread the entire OP just to make sure I wasn't a crack head.  :p

 

As long as the OP was, he / she did not give a detailed list of the items being suggested to be moved to a loot room. I was thinking under his / her logic that energy would not drop from mobs either because that doesn't make any sense. Your telling me that when I pop a Grineer that there is some electricity or "energy" of some kind left behind by it's dead body? That doesn't make any more sense than the target carrying around a handful of plastids. Besides that, our frames have reactors. *shrugs* oh well maybe I took the OP's logic too far.

 

In conclusion though, it is an interesting idea. I think it would take a lot more than this to make stealth "work" and I don't think it will slow down the rushers one bit. The people who run straight through and don't bother to kill all the mobs are still gonna do that and the ones that like to clean up a room of targets are still gonna do that.

 

Lore? I am not too worried about that point, this is not live action, I have not built my own Rhino frame, and I do not wear the frame I have not built IRL when I play the game. Mobs dropping loot is standard operating procedure in games. Could it be done better? Maybe. Do I think the Devs will give it a try? After the hundreds of good ideas I have seen in this forum with no detectable response (yea or nay) from the Devs ... no. (edit: IMO) Communication is not this studio's strong point.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Carcharias

[Symbiont71]

No worries lol. It has been a long day, you made me go back and reread the entire OP just to make sure I wasn't a crack head.  :p

 

As long as the OP was, he / she did not give a detailed list of the items being suggested to be moved to a loot room. I was thinking under his / her logic that energy would not drop from mobs either because that doesn't make any sense. Your telling me that when I pop a Grineer that there is some electricity or "energy" of some kind left behind by it's dead body? That doesn't make any more sense than the target carrying around a handful of plastids. Besides that, our frames have reactors. *shrugs* oh well maybe I took the OP's logic too far.

 

In conclusion though, it is an interesting idea. I think it would take a lot more than this to make stealth "work" and I don't think it will slow down the rushers one bit. The people who run straight through and don't bother to kill all the mobs are still gonna do that and the ones that like to clean up a room of targets are still gonna do that.

 

Lore? I am not too worried about that point, this is not live action, I have not built my own Rhino frame, and I do not wear the frame I have not built IRL when I play the game. Mobs dropping loot is standard operating procedure in games. Could it be done better? Maybe. Do I think the Devs will give it a try? After the hundreds of good ideas I have seen in this forum with no detectable response (yea or nay) from the Devs ... no. Communication is not this studio's strong point.

 

Yes, having enemies drop energy balls is no more realistic than them dropping loot, but can loot be done in more "realistic" ways without breaking the spirit of battle? Yes, and it should because i really don't like running around for loot and not paying attention to enemies around me. The despawn timer is forcing people to that sometimes.

 

Can energy balls have the same treatment? Yes. Should they? NO. It breaks the fastpaced action having to go to loot rooms to get energy back, which is even worse. 

 

All we have to do is to find the balance between logic and game. Trying to do only one breaks the other and this is not the objective of this system.

 

P.S.: If communication is not this studio's strong point, i don't know if there IS any studio with communication skills.

I strongly believe they are the best devs i've met in terms of communication. Maybe you expect more from them, but that is personal and i think your affirmation is subjective and it should start with "in my opinion..". 

 

Just saying,

Cheers! ^^

 

EDIT: i have seen many genius ideas around also, and yes, i didn't hear anything about those from the devs.

The thing is that they really love their game, they finally did what they wanted to do since they started with Dark Sector.

 

A game like this requires a lot of preparation and plans, long-term ones. It's THEIR vision and they choose to share it with us.

If they see an idea that we see as great, they might think it doesn't fit THEIR vision of the game and their future plans with it, but i bet they see it as great as well.

 

As for the listening part, i think this game changed a lot since open beta came out and a lot of those changes were somehow "dictated" or suggested by players.

 

I really trust their vision and they have yet to let me down, since everytime i frown upon a change we somehow get a fix or a way around that.

 

Sorry for going off-topic.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Symbiont71

[TheHeraldXII]

I like the idea because it proposes fixes to things which ARE broken. Stealth being a waste of time first and foremost, secondly being that the missions people run are determined entirely by the rate at which enemies spawn. See defense missions as an example.

It still needs some work obviously, but moving mods and resources to loot containers (increasing the drop rate from containers, obviously) while keeping energy orbs and ammo on the enemy is a good idea from where I'm sitting. Obviously mods shouldn't despawn in this case so that rushers don't just nab everything and leave the rest with nothing. Also, the drop rates should be calculated to provide the same reward as an average mission in mods/minute.

As for Defense missions, but a few loot rooms around to start with, and none from there on in. "What!?", you cry, thinking of how inefficient it is to run endless defense now. Calm down, endless defenses already give a valuable reward at the 5-wave marker, giving them an additional reward just exacerbates the current problem with people running defenses and boss runs almost exclusively.

As for Mobile Defense, it's structured like a standard mission already, it would have loot rooms in it like anything else. The endless waves of goons provide experience by the bucketful anyway, and that's one of the things people do Mobile Defense for.

Edited August 20, 2013 by TheHeraldXII

[Forevener]

Sounds good.

* Resources should be stored in storages

* Mods should be used by enemies (mostly - some unique tech, i.e. bane mods, belongs to storages too)

* Ammo should drop from enemies wielding according weapon

* Mission completion should grant us affinity (especially stealth one)

* Drops should be shared for everyone (21 plastids means that here's 21, not 18 for someone and not 25 for someone else)

* Some drops should be guaranteed (control modules from some kind of main secured storage)

* Perhaps it's better to scavenge small amount of base resources from each enemy (every Grineer have armor made from alloy plates, why not to take some?)

[VegetableBasket]

I don't know if I would do what the OP is suggesting, but I do agree that enemies dropping loot is kind of annoying and slightly nonsensical, though lorewise, the Tenno do scavenge just about everything they have.

[British]

[Symbiont71]

 

 

Some actual feedback would really be appreciated. Tell us why this system should not be "approved".

Edited August 20, 2013 by Symbiont71

[British]

Most likely because I'm fine with the way it is right now.