Enemies Should Not Drop Loot

[Skyblazer]

This may seem like a radical suggestion, but hear me out: enemies dropping loot is a horrible feature for Warframe. Yes, it's in other games -- sometimes it even makes sense in them. But this mechanic is an archaic relic which has no place in Warframe, and should be replaced with loot rooms that drop a proportional amount of loot, which would be scattered around the map. Removing this feature will solve a multitude of problems:

 

- It will render "rushing" vs "exploring" a non-issue: no one will have to stop to kill and loot every enemy -- instead, people will rush through maps exploring, hoping to find loot rooms with the resources and mods they need. The only question now will be "is it better to eliminate every enemy or to try to avoid them, either by rushing or by stealth?" which a much better problem to have than "do we try to run through the mission as fast as possible, or explore every nook and cranny on the off chance that somewhere some enemy drops something rare?" 

 

- It makes stealth sub-optimal: you get less loot for it. Loot rooms make stealth feasible -- the player sneaks in, gets all the loot, and leaves, missing only ammo drops from the enemies he spares. 

 

- It works poorly with other systems -- Warframe is supposed to be about style: wallrunning, backfliipping, sliding and generally being ninja-like, as the trailers depict. However, instead of planning how to approach a room based on how to eliminate everyone most efficiently or in the most cool way possible, players plan around being close to grab the stuff that falls out of enemies. Playing as depicted in the trailers is actually sub-optimal behaviour in the current system.

 

The time limit to pick up resources exacerbates this issue -- often getting a drop is more urgent than killing an enemy.This produces boring gameplay, and distracted players who are watching the bottom of the screen mid-fight to see what exactly they just picked up. If we ever want gameplay like that depicted in the trailers become the norm, loot drops have to go. 

 

- It makes no sense in Lore, for so many reasons: Firstly, why do enemies carry around random items? It makes no sense at all for a random Grineer marine to be carrying alloy plate or salvage, for example. What use does a mass produced clone soldier have for a chunk of metal? Where did they get it?

 

More importantly, why are Tenno, the best equipped characters in the game and supposed good-guys stopping to rifle through the pockets of people they've murdered? It looks like they're just common thieves going around shooting people and taking their stuff.

 

Loot rooms imply that the items within are rare and controlled substances, and even that stealing from them is setting back the efforts of the entire faction. A Grineer Mine tile filled with alloy plate, for example, could be holding alloy plate intended for Grineer Weapons (since we know it is a component of Grineer weapons from the blueprints): stealing it would be a noble endeavor. 

 

- Enemies often drop items off of cliffs or into unreachable areas. Loot rooms would be controlled environments where this would be impossible. 

 

 

[legionprobatio]

i don't like this idea. the loot system is fine

[Gostteam]

What about defense?

[porkabakin11]

Edited August 18, 2013 by porkabakin11

[Jefftiffy]

So wait that means that enemies should be giant blobs walking around due to their high amounts of armor?
Also, the materials are scavenged from the dead body. Blueprints are found by high tier enemies because they are the usually the ones to hold onto important things.
I find really good mods exploring in the Void when my team rushes and if they don't fell like coming back for them their loss because at the end of the 1 minute I get my stuff anyways.

 

Edited August 18, 2013 by Jefftiffy

[_Absolom_]

This is what I call a BAD, BAD, HORRIBLE "suggestion".

 

Besides, take away the looting system and what do you get? A horrible and boring game with no goal.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Nazgul999

[Ariarch]

What about defense?

That is the question my friend.

[Deckers]

The loot system does not need an overhaul

[Lifeshield]

take away the looting system and what do you get?

 

More rushing.

[Shelter92]

U heff to be med?

U make yolk?

 

Just no..

[Skyblazer]

What about defense?

 

The defense looting scheme already needs an overhaul, and is a great example of how bad the current system is: if you plan to extract on wave 10, say, then you'd better hope you got all the stuff on the ground, because if you haven't when the last enemy dies, you lose out on that loot. 

 

I would suggest there is an elevator you take to extract, which takes you to loot rooms. 

[Symbiont71]

I don't dislike this idea, simply because YES, people will first go pick up some mod before reviving teammates, running around to stick to exp range and stuff.

 

This idea could be turned into something cool and new and original, exactly what Warframe aspires to.

 

Think of the missions:

 

Sabotage: you need to destroy the ship's reactor core or the minning equipment. As simple as that, that's your whole mission. Killing enemies? Optional.

Why do you do this mission, seriously? Answer: unlocking. I see no other reason why someone would pick this over an endless / mobile defense (aside for solo stealth test).

 

The way the mission system works should be tweaked, because every type of mission should be viable for drop / exp. Or at least fun.

 

So how do we tweak the sabotage mission for example? Well, using the system the OP suggested, we make it drop MORE mats. You get an amount of planet specific materials for destroying the reactor core / minning equipment AND you have rooms with containers that also have mats and mods, you just need to look for them and they unlock only when no enemy is in the main room.

 

This makes stealth / ninja gameplay more viable. This was only an example i found for the moment.

 

Of course, we have problems with the actual system, the new system will have its OWN problems, but nothing is perfect, we can only improve and improve and improve.

 

I highly doubt DE will adopt this system, but i don't dislike the idea and implemented in the right way, it could save mission types from being viable only for unlocking defenses and assassinations.

 

Hope i made some sense,

Cheers!

[rksk16it]

I like this idea, I hate looting in general. But, on the other hand, majority of players find it a fun mechanic, and from majority I mean F***IN LARGE MAJORITY. So... not happening....

[Relkin]

This is what I call a BAD, BAD, HORRIBLE "suggestion".

 

Besides, take away the looting system and what do you get? A horrible and boring game with no goal.

That in of itself, is a ridiculously major issue. 

 

The OP makes good, legitimate points as well as his explanation regarding the kind of behavior the current loot system encourages.  If a game has to rely on terrible RNG and meager drops to get you by, then it needs a dramatic overhaul to make it fun instead of a collector game for obsessive fan boiz who need to have 2 of everything (one to look at and one to play with lol). 

Edited August 18, 2013 by Relkin

[neKroMancer]

Taking loot away from mobs will only result in different type of rushing - rush to the loot room.

I think it make sense for enemy to drop mod and material upon death. However, I think that in order to drop a certain mod, the enemy should use that mod as well. This would create greater variance of enemies. Elite Grineer that has higher shield than usual will likely to drop redirection. One that shoot harder will likely to drop serration. One that deal ice damage will likely to drop cryo round. This will make the game more exciting and unpredictable. Player will have to find these enemies and kill them for chance of getting certain mods.

However, I think blueprints should be kept in a secured room that unlocked after the boss is killed. A boss carrying BP makes no sense to me.

[Saenol]

I don't kill enemies for loot, I kill enemies because I want them dead.

[Lumireaver]

What about defense?

 

Locked loot rooms that open up every five waves.

 

I feel that the suggestion presented in this topic is a good idea, but should be exercised carefully. 

[Tierria]

We could also have the missions themselves give better rewards for JUST completion. I mean, aside from Nightmare Mode's mods, do any of the missions actually give something we'd actually WANT as a reward, other than credits? Would it be that hard for them to send us materials or mods for a job well done, you know, something we could REALLY use?

[Makemap]

More rushing.

Also more newbies dying.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Makemap

[Casardis]

I feel that the suggestion presented in this topic is a good idea, but should be exercised carefully. 

 

I agree with this. I think that, if properly implemented, it could work well, but people have to be careful.

 

- We're presenting a big change in the loot system which people have become familiar with

- People becoming familiar with it usually believes that it's working well ("if it's not broken, don't fix it" mentality); they are right to think this way though

- Changing this will certainly bring forth new issues, but the question is if the good outweights the bad

 

I think the main reason I like this idea is because of how we keep on blazing through every tiles except in the void (if you're doing a vault-search run). In fact, this whole idea is reminiscent of how the void works, which is why it's not so alien to me (except that in the void, you're not searching for resources, but mods).

 

In any case, I'm fine with the way it is currently simply from familiarity, which I'm admitting. I'm very open to changes however, if it can benefit as a counter to the burnout.

 

Irrelevant EDIT: Oh hey, it's Lumi again. XD

Edited August 18, 2013 by Casardis

[Mainabi]

I like the idea but we should be careful with it

for defense: upon extraction you can get to a storeroom with all the ressources

[AprilFools]

I'm assuming energy and health will still drop? If not, good luck on defense. Hope you have a good gun...

[gpturismo]

More rushing.

 

Then the game becomes the Best Super Suit Mod Sim ever!

[Tsukinoki]

A few problems with this idea:

-A rusher runs ahead of the group to the room and opens all of the containers and lootables. The rest of the party gets to the room just in time to watch everything despawn.

Why the current system is better on this point? Even if there is a lone rusher in the group at least the rest of the group can get a decent amount of loot from the enemies we kill on our way to the objective.

-A rusher runs ahead and loots the room and then the map marker updates to point to the extraction, good luck finding the loot room, and this just compounds the first thing.

-There is now literally NO point in killing enemies. In the current system you kill enemies and you get loot. Without that loot there really isn't any point to not rushing through the levels as the enemies are now just armored blobs that get in your way.

-This would lead to a MASSIVE reduction in overall loot gains per mission, which would just make this game into even more of a grind than it currently is.

[Paradoxbomb]

I don't think enemies shouldn't drop anything, but I do think that lockers and containers should get a serious buff. Think about it, lockers are in finite supply per mission and yet all they ever contain is ammo and sometimes a common resource if your lucky. Meanwhile enemies come in seemingly endless hordes, and drop mods, ammo, energy, resources, etc. There isn't a point to looting right now since it's just easier to blow up everyone on the main path.

 

Lockers should have a substantially higher chance to drop rare resources and mods, whereas enemies are less likely to drop these items, but make up for it in the sheer amount of them per mission. That way players on a non-defense mission are just as likely to get decent rewards from exploring while players on a defense mission are likely to get a lot of items from simply fighting the waves of enemies (since there are so few lockers in defense).

 

 

P.S.: Add void keys to the locker/container drop tables. That way people actually have incentive to play something besides defense.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Paradoxbomb