[Warframe rework] Vauban , realistic Suggestions

[Oby.Xiao]

Hello guys,

I will not mention all the reasons Vauban needs a rework, everybody knows it and there is another thread that has a good list of reasons.

I took the time and created my own rework suggestion, that doesn’t change the abilities at their core , just tweaks them and makes them work with one another so Vauban can ADAPT (this should be his main feature as his concept is that of an engineer) to situations where he has to be a CC, a DPS or a Defensive frame.

Note: I took some of D20's ideas from his thread.

Ok, so here it is:

PASSIVE - grenadier : Vauban is immune to self damage. // OK i know this  might sound a little bit OP but the frame needs a lot of help and a lot of people don't use self damaging weapons/ exodias because they are too afraid to kill themselves

             An alternative would be: Vauban's self damage caps at 50% hp // so basically half of his HP is immune to self damage.

1.Tesla : Launches a grenade that holds an electrical charge, zapping enemies that come within range. //(same as the current one but with better damage over time  + ability to become a buff for 3^rd and 4^th ability) 

Strength:80 / 100 / 120 / 150 (arc damage) > 100 / 150 / 200 / 250  ( Electricity proc)

15 (contact damage) > 90 (Blast proc)

Duration: 5 / 6 / 7 / 10 (charges)  \\ 20/24/28/40s as a buff for Bastille / Vortex

Range:7 / 8 / 10 / 12 m  

Dutaion: 40 s (duration) – Not affected by the duration mods

Total damage for 1 grenade : 400 / 600 / 840 / 1500  >   500 / 900 / 1400 / 2500 

The maximum number of usable charges is capped at 18. 

25 energy.

2.Minelayer : Cycle through three deployable trap mines: Bounce, Shred and Concuss.      //(same as the current ones but without the Trip Laser(in my opinion it’s kind of useless as we already have the tesla link augment ) + ability to become a buff for 3^rd and 4^th ability and lower cost)

Bounce: Same as before but can buff Bastille and Vortex with the “Bounce effect”

Shred: Same as before but can buff Bastille and Vortex with the “Shred effect”

Concuss: Same as before but can buff Bastille and Vortex with the “Concuss effect” 

50 energy > 30 energy.

Augment sugestion: 

Thrilling Minelayer : Throwing any mine will grant Vauban a 20% speed boost,stacks up to 3 times . // throwing 3 mines gets him 1.6x Speed buff 

3.Bastille : Creates an energy-based containment field in which captives are held suspended in stasis also creates a 2 m radius energy sphere around the grenade that can absorb up to 3 effects from Tesla and Minelayer grenades.     // (changed duration/ range and has the ability to be buffed by 1^st and 2^nd ability)

Strength:6 / 8 / 10 / 12 (affected enemies)  

1 / 2 / 3 / 5 (number of Bastiles that can be thrown at a time )       // I think this will stop the spam and it's pretty decent.  The next one you throw out replaces the oldest one. 

15 (contact damage)

Duration: 8 / 10 / 12 / 15 s  > 10 / 12 / 15 / 20 s

Range: 5 / 7 / 8 / 10 m  >  4 / 5 / 6 / 8 m

Ok, now  the effects:

General rules:

• only 3 effects can buff any vortex/bastille
• they affect vortex/bastille for their entire time (yes, that counts for the perpetual vortex too)
• the buffing grenade has to be thrown inside the 2m sphere that appears around the center of every vortex/bastille

Bouncy Bastille: Bastille still affects enemies the same way, but every hostile ranged hit/ throw/ spit/ whatever comes from OUTSIDE the Bastille has its dmg reduced by 30% (not affected by any mods) // This would make Vauban more like a defense frame (by stacking 3 bouncy grenades on bastille you get 90% dmg reduction)

Now, the other effects are grouped up because they kind of use the same “special” area:

Tesla Bastille: Bastille still affects enemies the same way, but bastille’s energy ring inflicts twice the dmg of the Tesla grenade, alongside an  Electricity  proc to every enemy as close as 2m to its ring. (the 2m is affected by  range – this is for an 8m radius bastille)

// this would be cool if it looked like a Faraday Cage

Shredded Bastille: Bastille’s energy ring bursts into pieces inflicting 4 times the dmg of the Shred grenade, alongside a  Blast proc to every enemy as close as 2m to its ring. (the 2m is affected by  range – this is for an 8m radius bastille)

Concuss Bastille: Bastille's energy ring bursts into light inflicting the same effect as Concuss grenade (Affected enemies become deafened to all gunfire noise for 8 seconds and suffer a 24 sec  Radiation proc.) to every enemy as close as 2m to its ring. (the 2m is affected by  range – this is for an 8m radius bastille) 

Still 75 energy.

 4.Vortex : Creates a whirling mass of energy that violently attracts nearby enemies, crushing their atoms into a tiny spec of matter. also creates a 2m radius energy sphere around the grenade that can absorb up to 3 effects from Tesla and Minelayer grenades.

Strength:50 (damage)

2x (initial damage multiplier)

15 (contact damage)

Duration:6 / 8 / 10 / 12 s > 8 / 10 / 15 / 18 s

Range:6 m

Ok, now the effects:

General rules:

• only 3 effects can buff any vortex/bastille
• they affect vortex/bastille for their entire time (yes, that counts for the perpetual vortex too)
• the buffing grenade has to be thrown inside the 2m sphere that appears around the center of every vortex/bastille

Tesla Vortex: Vortex still affects enemies the same way (Magnetic Proc), but every enemy attracted by the tesla vortex will get a DOT with  Electricity dmg (same as tesla grenade) 150 / 200 / 250 / 350 (scalable with strength)  every second they sit in the vortex.

// this would be cool if it looked like a Tesla coil

Bouncy Vortex: Vortex still affects enemies the same way (Magnetic Proc), but every enemy attracted by the bouncy vortex will get a DOT with  Impact dmg (same as bounce grenade) 150 / 200 / 250 / 350 (scalable with strength)  every second they sit in the vortex.

Shredded Vortex: Vortex explodes creating a 6m radius blast inflicting 4 times the dmg of the Shred grenade, alongside a  Blast proc to every enemy

Concuss Vortex: Vortex still affects enemies the same way (Magnetic Proc), but every enemy attracted by the concuss vortex will get a DOT with  Radiation dmg (same as concuss grenade) 150 / 200 / 250 / 350 (scalable with strength)  every second they sit in the vortex, and if they escape the vortex they have a 12sec Radiation effect.

Still 100 energy.

 

Imagine some combos like this:

You throw a Bastille and a Vortex and throw inside the little sphere any of those: Tesla (to create an electricity field) or Shred (to blow the whole area up) or Concuss (for confusing the enemies in the grey area and dealing more dmg for the ones inside blue area)

 

STAT CHANGES :

Vauban :

Base shields raised from 100 to 125.

Base armor raised from 50 to 200.

Vauban Prime :

Base shields raised from 100 to 125.

Base armor raised from 100 to 250.      // he needs more survivability , this is the least they can do. 

The synergy created with these changes would make Vauban a much more competitive and fun frame in my opinion. I think these changes are quite realistic as DE doesn't have to change any augment and the changes are pretty easy to do/balance. The main idea was to give Vauban some damage over time effects that he can also combine to get a more "bursty" way of damaging enemies.

I thought a lot about removing or not removing the concuss grenade as it feels kind of out of place... (and this may make 2nd ability easier to cast- let bounce be a tap and hold a bit to cast Shread) but i am not sure .. plz comment with your opinions on these suggestions^^^, Thank you!

 

A few necessary commenting rules : 

• This thread is made to discuss the points I raised and the rework suggestions I made : Don't hijack it. If you wish to speak about the way you would have wanted Vauban to be without discussing too much the points I made in the OP or in a later post, please make your own thread.
• Do not post link towards other rework threads . You may however quote some stuff from those threads if necessary as long as it's not bringing your whole rework thing over here.
• Be excellent to each other. If someone disagrees with you, this is perfectly fine.
• Don't moan about those commenting rules I decided to apply in that thread. It's useless.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Oby.Xiao
Added augment suggestion

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

a fun fact, but if you play wukong, you can build to entirely ignore self damage thanks to his Defy ability.. if that is ok, then a Passive that reduces or outright removes self damage is not off the table..

 

i love Vortex and Bastille, combined they are the only things keeping Vauban afloat as worthwhile frame.

[Oby.Xiao]

This is one of the rarest frames on the current meta... and its a shame... especially the Vauban Prime is really hard to farm/ craft... if i'm not wrong is the most expensive frame in the game.. It deserves a lot more attention IMO.

[Prof.549]

On 2018-06-28 at 12:44 AM, Oby.Xiao said:

realistic/conservative Suggestions

DIdn't read any further. Straight no to whatever you are suggesting.

[Oby.Xiao]

Just now, Prof.549 said:

DIdn't read any further. Straight no to whatever you are suggesting.

uhm... just to explain: realistic/ conservative suggestions mean something that is somewhat close to other reworks that DE did with other frames .. Saryn would be the best example...

I'm trying to suggest some implementable changes.... not redesigning half of the abilities and almost completely change the frame... because i don't believe DE would do that... they wont just design a new frame with new augments and rebalance everything again .... they have better things to do... for example other new warframes.

I hope this may change your mind and maybe u will read the post.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

On 2018-06-28 at 10:28 PM, Prof.549 said:

DIdn't read any further. Straight no to whatever you are suggesting.

let me guess, no turrets = no thanks? 

 

everyone who makes a suggestion to change or improve a frame goes so horribly overboard, replacing abilities they simply don't like.

[Prof.549]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

let me guess, no turrets = no thanks? 

 

everyone who makes a suggestion to change or improve a frame goes so horribly overboard, replacing abilities they simply don't like.

wat

[Oby.Xiao]

3 hours ago, Prof.549 said:

wat

I think he reffers to other vauban threads on this forum or reddit that suggest implementing turrets/towers that do damage by themselves or buff vauban .... and imo those kind of suggestions are trying to push vauban too much into that robo-engineer concept that is often found in other games.... 

[(PSN)The_PhantomSteel]

Vauban is boring to play. The only usefull ability are bastile and vortex. the frame is a engineer-themed Warframe and should have diverse ability other than grenats.

My Ideas: first ability: like the operator he will ragdoll or stagger enemys with a special force push, but its wider range and stronger, charging will give you stronger and more range                                 

                second ability: concussion will control enemys for vaubans sake and attack only attacks allies and other enemies, bounce will be like a wall,it will deflect bullets to enemies back. vauban and allies will be the only one to pass through to bounce wall,he throws multiple teslas and will stagger enemies and the tesla will do more damage. the more tesla nearby the higher the damage multiplies. 

                Third ability: vortex (way more damage), bastille(no limit to enemies and longer duration ) deployable turret, drones

                Fourth ability: first: consume energy the longer you hold the button, when release the button he creates a extra/second high shield around him. it will be gone if the shield is gets damage enough. strenght will affected how many shields you get.

                                      second: consume energy the longer you hold but when tap two times it will charges that energy foward or around them and do high damage and remove armor from enemies

He is tactical frame and CORPUS frame and should use different technology like iron man or batman does.

passive ability: vauban has higher chance that enemies will drop energy orb or he will regenerates energy itself, and regenerate shield faster than other frames

 

and please make Vauban have way more armor and shields. He looks like a machine and should have that.

maybe armor around 400 or more and shield when using the shield mod max at 2000 shield

I think that Vauban is a cool looking frame and have the potential to be a good and fun to play.

Edited August 9, 2018 by (PS4)The_PhantomSteel
i have now more realistic ideas

[Oby.Xiao]

4 hours ago, (PS4)The_PhantomSteel said:

because it is  a very boring to play with Vauban. The only usefull ability are bastile and vortex. the frame is a engineer-themed Warframe and should have diverse ability other than grenats.

I don't agree with that.. i really belive DE can make him fun to play without altering his main theme: he is a "grenade launcher "... this is what game designers created him to do... 

Overall i love the frame and i really hope they will make him strong and fun to play.

[(PSN)The_PhantomSteel]

Really? When did DE said that? He was one of the early frames in the games and should have new improved

equipmenst his first and second ability is useless and effective for low enemies and for fun. He should create a DEADLY inviroment but has useless ability like bounce, trip laser, tesla and orther grenats in the two abilities. He is tactical frame and  Corpus frame and should use different technology like iron man or batman does.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Honestly, with the right improvments his Minelayer and Tesla could be hugely useful..

complex setting of traps and defensive grids, the mines functionality is fine, its just the effects are too weak. Add in the lack of synergy apart from ability and weapon synergy, and he just feels outdated compared to newer frames.

vortex is godly with explosive or AOE weapons while Bastille is insane with weapons that do huge headshot damage. when i see either of these abilites being replaced in a rework topic i just shake my head... these abilities also need some changes, but they are both hugely useful already.

Vauban is a Combat engineer, who plays like a grenadier. IRL combat engineers are the ones tasked with the construction of fortifications, things like bunkers, supply points, bridges etc.. they are almost never the ones who directly engage in combat. as for the turret stereo type created by video games, its a different type... one which really has no IRL equivalent still.

Vauban is named for his role..

[kaim]

My 2 cents on the matter

Passive

-Scavenger you are able to convert any ammo type in any other (basically a perma ammo case)

1 Tesla granade: Change how its works. Stats: Strength/Range/Duration

- Instead of something you throw at the ground to create a damage zone you throw at the enemy creating and efect similar to a Bolas grabing the enemy and delivering a electric proc and damage every second depending on range can grab more than 1 enemy.

2 Mine layer: Combine the whole pack of mines in a single one. Stats: Strength/Range

It will apply the bounce shreder and contusion effects and will have 2 modes:

-Tapped: You will drop a single mine at your feets and after 1~2 seconds can be triggered by you other tennos or the enemy passing over and being shooted at.

-Charged (as hydroid tentacle swarm): Drop a cluster of mines of the above infront of you the number of mines and size will be determined by the level of the charge.

3 Bastille and Vortex: What these 2 skills is synergy between them and range adjustments. Stats: Range/Duration

-My proposal on the skill combo will be that if you throw a vortex granade in middle a bastille it should start shrinking acting as a crushing cube dealing a modified damage per enemy caught at the end.

I think that will keeps Vauban close to his core wich its supposedly be a master tactician keeping the CC and adding killing power to the ecuation.

[Oby.Xiao]

I cant believe that DE didn't use anything from our tens of suggestion threads ....

Charge the baaalls!!!! like that's really gonna change something! 😟 

 

[unless its a really op, incredibly nice scaling dmg ability...        .....jk...    it wouldn't be enough]

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

Replace his 1 with Arc mines from the grineer level and his 2 with the pulsing magnetic blasting mines the corpus ospreys use.

[Oby.Xiao]

The rework has happened .... but it feels incomplete !

His 2nd ability is still a big big problem!!

[Atsia]

46 minutes ago, Oby.Xiao said:

The rework has happened .... but it feels incomplete !

His 2nd ability is still a big big problem!!

The rework hasn't happened, they still plan on making changes to him, they've said this