How Can Regular Content Updates Continue At This Rate.

[pdxdubin]

And its getting to the point where people are not going to be able to trust the idea of leveling their current weapon, due to the possibility of a better one coming out in the following week.

 

New weapons are nice, and they really are one of the few things keeping the game going,

ie: being able to regularly unlock and level up all these new weapons.

But we already have like 5 rifles, and 5 shot guns, and several pistols.

Just releasing the same thing, while looking a little different and with slightly different stats then the original is not going to cut it for much longer. 

With the hind and the twin gremlins being super new and unique, They are still just basically re-textures of the original weapons.

Outclassing the burston, and the akboltos .

Honestly this is a real issue, and if this pace does not stop soon we are going to have new players coming in at release, looking up at 100's of weapons that are all generically similar.

 

Not as long as these content updates remain one of the elements that keep people interested

and as long as the only way to level up your mastery comes from these new weapons,

DE Needs to either keep releasing weapons, or change the mastery system, as well as give players new reasons to become interested in the game.

 

Now I have to say this because of the new weapon being designed right now, I mean it looks great and I WILL buy it, if not unlock it.

However we still have a braton, Grakata, Gorgon, and the boltor.

Not to say I don't want this weapon, I just wish that DE could release a weapon without making all previous weapons worthless.

because not as many people will buy this gun, if its not stronger then what they currently have.

And 

For a game in beta, we should not be at this point already, I really think that weapons need to stop being created, and more time should go into balancing and mechanical improvements.

 

 

However, 

A lot of these weak / unappealing weapons are great for new players so what I suggest

Is that if you are really going to continue to release weapons that are better then others, then give them some type ore prerequisites. 

For example the hek and the gorgon are good standards for power.

I think one way to solve this.

Is to make similar weapons chained together. 

So that if someone REALLY wants to make the burston powerful, then they can just continue to play it.

I think forma is a good start, But at the same time I think putting forma into a weapon should also increase its power.

So that the people who 

 

Level the burston to rank 30, can choose to not only add forma, but maybe increase one of its stats,

So that a player not only can increase the mod ranking, but they can additionally gradually push the weapon in the direction they want to go.

So that these weak unused weapons can continue to get stronger instead of having to just buy the next best thing.

So that you can feel more content leveling your own weapon again, instead of just buying a new weapon to have more power.

Because some people take a liking to these weaker weapons, but they are not good enough to stand up to end game content.

 

Here is another example of what I'm trying to say 

 

and I don't like the burston but its a good example. 

 

Say you have been using the burston for a while.

And you currently do not think its strong enough to deal with end game content. 
 

I think giving the players the option to really customize their weapon, and not only add forma, but change the stats, they could eventually turn the burston into something powerful enough to deal with end game content.

But with each weapon level, it should change the requirements of mastery.  

Meaning that a burston stats at 0, and if you are mastery rank 10, then you have 10 upgrades to use on it.

But if you are mastery rank 4, then you are only strong enough to upgrade it 4 times.

 

However, weapons like the acrid are already at mastery rank 7

Meaning that in order to upgrade weapons like the acrid, you will have to try even harder, and get your rank up even more to be able to use it. 

 

So in order to rank up the acrid, you would have to be mastery rank 8, and then maybe you could add a higher reload speed or something.

 

Meaning that there should be a system, that allows people to put the weapon's they like, on equal levels with the weapons that are meta. 

meaning that We should be able to make our lex as strong as our acrid, But at the same time, the lex would have to have a similar, if not higher mastery level requirement. 

 

 

This is a hard example to follow, and I will probably make another thread in the feedback, going into details.

 

But for this thread,  at this rate, there are too many weapons being released that have 0 prerequisites. 

 

 

 

This thread solution has been solved 

 

Combining pdxdubin and Blantantfools ideas, I have thought of a way taken from SGDO.

Ideas:

-After forma-ing you can increase a stat of your choice. Preferably 8 Max formas because we have 8 slots. Each stat can be upgraded 4x max.

-Varied stat increase on tiered weapons.

         T1 - gives great stat bonus

         T2 - gives good stat bonus

         T3 - gives mediocre stat bonus    

         T4 - gives least stat bonus

 

Now about the weapons unlocking, I have no idea where to start lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

- Too many similar / generic weapons are being released

- Split up the content through mastery rank to give justification for stronger weapons, being "stronger"

- More in depth customization options for weak / old weapons to allow them to catch up to stronger weapons.

What are your opinions on how DE releases weapons?

Edited August 24, 2013 by pdxdubin

[Chris9428]

I like how I just scrolled down to read the TL;DR

 

Anyways, DE should really wait before they release a weapon.

They should test it, and adjust it.

Otherwise we'll have a 2nd Miter.

[Sikab]

Had my own topic once about this issue. Got flamed to oblivion for trying to make a change.

 

My vote goes to weapons should be Sidegrades. No stronger, or weaker. All of them should have the Same DPS but with different stats.

 

Would be much easier to balance the mobs also, and would give more variety to the game... What are we seeing now?

 

Acrid-Despair-Flux. most common weapons.

 

Not fun.

 

It feels like as if the weapons dished out are only "Mastery EXP" junk, and that was their intended purpose from the start.

Edited August 24, 2013 by Sikab

[Chris9428]

Acrid-Despair-Flux. most common weapons.

 

Not fun.

I'm currently swapping between Braton Prime, Paris Prime, Bronco Prime, Twin Gremlins and Vasto.

[pdxdubin]

Had my own topic once about this issue. Got flamed to oblivion for trying to make a change.

 

My vote goes to weapons should be Sidegrades. No stronger, or weaker. All of them should have the Same DPS but with different stats.

 

Would be much easier to balance the mobs also, and would give more variety to the game... What are we seeing now?

 

Acrid-Despair-Flux. most common weapons.

 

Not fun.

 

It feels like as if the weapons dished out are only "Mastery EXP" junk, and that was their intended purpose from the start.

 

Well those weapons are fun

 

But it would be more fun to open the game up more to allow people to really build their own play styles.

Or to really take a weapon they like, and make it super powerful.

But at the same time, I think mastery rank should also always remain the standard in power. 

But making a braton strong enough to stand up with a rank 7 acrid, while making your braton require mastery rank 7, seems balanced to me.

if these op weapons require mastery rank 7, then why not allow weak weapons to get stronger while also increasing the requirements. 

It would not imbalance the game, it would bring more depth, and options to the play-styles that you want. 

 

Instead of requiring everyone to follow the meta to defeat high leveled content. 

[Sikab]

Well those weapons are fun

 

But it would be more fun to open the game up more to allow people to really build their own play styles.

Or to really take a weapon they like, and make it super powerful.

But at the same time, I think mastery rank should also always remain the standard in power. 

But making a braton strong enough to stand up with a rank 7 acrid, while making your braton require mastery rank 7, seems balanced to me.

if these op weapons require mastery rank 7, then why not allow weak weapons to get stronger while also increasing the requirements. 

It would not imbalance the game, it would bring more depth, and options to the play-styles that you want. 

 

Instead of requiring everyone to follow the meta to defeat high leveled content. 

Weapon actually getting stronger with me?

 

that's a thought I like.

[Blatantfool]

Instead of requiring everyone to follow the meta to defeat high leveled content. 

 

 But no one is actually required to follow the trend to do that content - just about any weapon you could desire to use will make the cut. 

 

 Sure some weapons are just generally bad, like Burston or Bo staff, but even the worst weapons in the game can get a little bit done.

 

 

 People play with what they would like to use. 

[Kinperor]

About weapon balance: I had an idea recently to do something to make each weapon more special: Allow us to fuse permanently a mod into the weapon. Kinda like a super powered Forma. 

 

Either the mod still take a slot but is much stronger, or it keeps the same strength but doesn't take a slot. 

 

It was a idle thought really, didn't carve out any balance details. 

Edited August 24, 2013 by Kinperor

[Dtexas]

What we need is a test server. A server where lets say Founders and/or people who have payed lets say $10 or more in the last 2 months get access to the test server.

 

All the new content will be in this test server for the next big update, and this way the player base can test it (not just the council, to little people atm in there) and DE can make fixes and make sure the update works intended for the main release.

 

I honestly think that if DE had a test server, these updates would go not only a lot better in terms of working properly (bugs could still happen), but it would keep the player base happy, instead of raging every time there is a big update.

[Chris9428]

About weapon balance: I had an idea recently to do something to make each weapon more special: Allow us to fuse permanently a mod into the weapon. Kinda like a super powered Forma. 

 

Either the mod still take a slot but is much stronger, or it keeps the same strength but doesn't take a slot. 

 

It was a idle thought really, didn't carve out any balance details. 

Well, it wouldn't make each weapon that much special.

Everyone would go for Hornet Strike/Serration or Multishot

 

Overall, it's not a bad idea. If it wouldn't be for those mods though..

[W4RM4CHIN3]

This dude gets it.

[pdxdubin]

 But no one is actually required to follow the trend to do that content - just about any weapon you could desire to use will make the cut. 

 

 Sure some weapons are just generally bad, like Burston or Bo staff, but even the worst weapons in the game can get a little bit done.

 

 

 People play with what they would like to use. 

 

Well its not about "getting a little bit done"

Your right

 

But I think if there was an option to allow these not so popular weapons, to be on the same level as the more popular ones then people will be able to actually work towards making a weak weapon more better.

But then again, into the future DE needs to keep these weapons better then the previous ones for people actually spend money on them.

its too early in the game to be doing that 

[W4RM4CHIN3]

What we need is a test server. A server where lets say Founders and/or people who have payed lets say $10 or more in the last 2 months get access to the test server.

 

All the new content will be in this test server for the next big update, and this way the player base can test it (not just the council, to little people atm in there) and DE can make fixes and make sure the update works intended for the main release.

 

I honestly think that if DE had a test server, these updates would go not only a lot better in terms of working properly (bugs could still happen), but it would keep the player base happy, instead of raging every time there is a big update.

 

Also we are the testers....

 

 

Hence Beta Testing.

[pdxdubin]

About weapon balance: I had an idea recently to do something to make each weapon more special: Allow us to fuse permanently a mod into the weapon. Kinda like a super powered Forma. 

 

Either the mod still take a slot but is much stronger, or it keeps the same strength but doesn't take a slot. 

 

It was a idle thought really, didn't carve out any balance details. 

 

This ^

 

This is exactly the kind of direction I want to push.

Allow players to really force weaker weapons into a better standing, Don't make it easy.

But if you want to spend the same amount of time making your burston as strong as your acrid.

but make it just as difficult to do, as getting the acrid in the first place.

Then I see no balance issues there, Only support for people who want to use their favorite weapons.

[pdxdubin]

Also we are the testers....

 

 

Hence Beta Testing.

 

About that

 

Time for another thread 

[Kinperor]

Well, it wouldn't make each weapon that much special.

Everyone would go for Hornet Strike/Serration or Multishot

 

Overall, it's not a bad idea. If it wouldn't be for those mods though..

 

Well, maybe if we had more diverse mods than "do damage this way instead of this way", it would be more interesting. But just the chance to make your favorite weapon better than substandard is good.

 

Taking melee for example: If you could make melee channel the permanent  fuse, that'd be pretty neat. You now have a weapon with innate scaling of energy use. 

 

Or apply the same thing to 'Frames, and now you can place less popular mods (like heavy impact) in the permanent slot or something and keep your frame versatile with other mods you can remove/add as you please. 

Edited August 24, 2013 by Kinperor

[Blatantfool]

Well its not about "getting a little bit done"

Your right

 

But I think if there was an option to allow these not so popular weapons, to be on the same level as the more popular ones then people will be able to actually work towards making a weak weapon more better.

But then again, into the future DE needs to keep these weapons better then the previous ones for people actually spend money on them.

its too early in the game to be doing that 

 

    I only partially agree.

 

 I feel like it is a pretty good idea for DE to tier weaponry.

 

 It is alright to say 'Okay guys, this is T1 gear. It is all set up to be easily crafted by even players just getting started.' or 'This is T4 gear, this is the stuff we've set up to be among the last things you'd end up crafting. The weapons carry more bang for your buck and some of them will have special effects, like the Acrid.'

 

 

 As long as they properly represent this concept in the game so that players can't make big mistakes when committing to a weapon.

 

 In my personal opinion, the ideal would be like this.

 

 T1 gear: Dull stats. These weapons are neither good or bad. Built to be right in the middle.

 T2 gear: The gap between the strengths and weaknesses widens. These weapons lean more in a specific direction. Sacrifice a little versatility to specialize just a bit.

 T3 gear: These weapons will be good at one thing and bad at something else.

 T4 gear: These bad boys are the ultimate. Either the gun carries a unique effect, like Acrid, or the gun will be top of the line in a specific area and absolutely horrible for something else.

 

 

 

 

 I feel like the weapon pool would have some more potential that way. If they set the guns up so that everything is a sidegrade they'll definitely run out of wiggle room and then guns will overlap with each other in purpose and feel.

[Sikab]

    I only partially agree.

 

 I feel like it is a pretty good idea for DE to tier weaponry.

 

 It is alright to say 'Okay guys, this is T1 gear. It is all set up to be easily crafted by even players just getting started.' or 'This is T4 gear, this is the stuff we've set up to be among the last things you'd end up crafting. The weapons carry more bang for your buck and some of them will have special effects, like the Acrid.'

 

 

 As long as they properly represent this concept in the game so that players can't make big mistakes when committing to a weapon.

 

 In my personal opinion, the ideal would be like this.

 

 T1 gear: Dull stats. These weapons are neither good or bad. Built to be right in the middle.

 T2 gear: The gap between the strengths and weaknesses widens. These weapons lean more in a specific direction. Sacrifice a little versatility to specialize just a bit.

 T3 gear: These weapons will be good at one thing and bad at something else.

 T4 gear: These bad boys are the ultimate. Either the gun carries a unique effect, like Acrid, or the gun will be top of the line in a specific area and absolutely horrible for something else.

 

 

 

 

 I feel like the weapon pool would have some more potential that way. If they set the guns up so that everything is a sidegrade they'll definitely run out of wiggle room and then guns will overlap with each other in purpose and feel.

That would just create the same scenario as what we have now with the Frames.

 

Try to find a group for a Defense mission as an Excalibur for example...

 

Would further kill diversity.

[ThePresident777]

Weapons become outclassed only in high wave defense missions.  The only difference between high wave and low wave defense missions is the higher wave enemies are more bullet spongee.

 

It's the same game over and over again no matter which location you play.  That is the real problem with this game.  It's a tread mill and all the hamsters are whining for more tread mill, harder, faster.

 

But, make a suggestion for more real content and they whine even louder in disagreement.  You spoiled little hamsters need friendly fire and 4 faction 16 player pvp in your Warframe.

Edited August 24, 2013 by ThePresident777

[Blatantfool]

That would just create the same scenario as what we have now with the Frames.

 

Try to find a group for a Defense mission as an Excalibur for example...

 

Would further kill diversity.

 

 Untrue. While it IS a problem for Warframe balance, it'd work out fine for weapons. Just gotta make sure things are pretty clearly labeled. Players should be able to tell the difference between a T1 item and a T4 item in the Foundry at a glance. It needs to be evident in the UI.

 

 T1 gear should all be set up to work out a lot like the Braton. The guns are GOOD. Reliable even. If you wanted them to work for endgame they would. They aren't perfect - but that is because they are a jack of all trades weapon and not specialized.

 

 Meanwhile T4 gear simply needs to have very clear extremes. 'This is what is good about the weapon - and when I say good I mean great. But this is whats bad. Better learn to cope.'

 

 

 In my ideal situation you'd balance all tiers to work out for all content - but the T4 gear would be stronger IF you could manage to work with or around their gimmicks or weaknesses.

[pdxdubin]

    I only partially agree.

 

 I feel like it is a pretty good idea for DE to tier weaponry.

 

 It is alright to say 'Okay guys, this is T1 gear. It is all set up to be easily crafted by even players just getting started.' or 'This is T4 gear, this is the stuff we've set up to be among the last things you'd end up crafting. The weapons carry more bang for your buck and some of them will have special effects, like the Acrid.'

 

 

 As long as they properly represent this concept in the game so that players can't make big mistakes when committing to a weapon.

 

 In my personal opinion, the ideal would be like this.

 

 T1 gear: Dull stats. These weapons are neither good or bad. Built to be right in the middle.

 T2 gear: The gap between the strengths and weaknesses widens. These weapons lean more in a specific direction. Sacrifice a little versatility to specialize just a bit.

 T3 gear: These weapons will be good at one thing and bad at something else.

 T4 gear: These bad boys are the ultimate. Either the gun carries a unique effect, like Acrid, or the gun will be top of the line in a specific area and absolutely horrible for something else.

 

 

 

 

 I feel like the weapon pool would have some more potential that way. If they set the guns up so that everything is a sidegrade they'll definitely run out of wiggle room and then guns will overlap with each other in purpose and feel.

 

That is a much better way of saying it then the way I had it

 

But how should Teirs be unlocked?  Through mastery? 

 

Also Don't you think it would be a good system to allow someone to put in a decently large amount of time into a T1 Weapon, to make it as strong as a T4 weapon.

I mean forma is a good start,

But why should I forma my braton, when by putting the same amount of forma into my acrid I can become even more powerful.

I think that putting forma into a weapon should require mastery ranking, So that you cant just turn acrid into a god weapon at mastery rank 7

And if you really want to put 4 forma into the acrid, your mastery should be at least 11

I think this would make the game more balanced. Because mastery is a solid system to work off 

[pdxdubin]

That would just create the same scenario as what we have now with the Frames.

 

Try to find a group for a Defense mission as an Excalibur for example...

 

Would further kill diversity.

 

I actually agree with blatant

 

However I don't think that Teirs should be static

I think they should be open enough to the point where a player can bring weak weapons into higher teirs, for the same amount of work required to get the weapon they are trying to match up too.

I actually think frames are in a good place right now,

Its not like there is "One" frame that is the best, 

Although at the same time you cant deny that there is "one" frame that just plain sucks.

More then one.

But DE is currently working on that as we speak. 

and I think mag is the next frame to get tweaked a bit, after rhino. 

[Blatantfool]

That is a much better way of saying it then the way I had it

 

But how should Teirs be unlocked?  Through mastery? 

 

Also Don't you think it would be a good system to allow someone to put in a decently large amount of time into a T1 Weapon, to make it as strong as a T4 weapon.

I mean forma is a good start,

But why should I forma my braton, when by putting the same amount of forma into my acrid I can become even more powerful.

I think that putting forma into a weapon should require mastery ranking, So that you cant just turn acrid into a god weapon at mastery rank 7

And if you really want to put 4 forma into the acrid, your mastery should be at least 11

I think this would make the game more balanced. Because mastery is a solid system to work off 

 

 I think the 'locking' is already in the game. There are some basic mastery walls.  T1 = 0+ Mastery. T2 = 2+ Mastery. T3 = 4+ and T4 = 7+ to start with.

 

 Then DE has to actually go through the trouble of clearly defining the different tiers and how the recipes tend to work. There should be exactly 0 easy to craft T4 items (unless it is a boss drop weapon, more on that in a moment.) and there should be exactly 0 hard to craft T1s.

[pdxdubin]

 I think the 'locking' is already in the game. There are some basic mastery walls.  T1 = 0+ Mastery. T2 = 2+ Mastery. T3 = 4+ and T4 = 7+ to start with.

 

 Then DE has to actually go through the trouble of clearly defining the different tiers and how the recipes tend to work. There should be exactly 0 easy to craft T4 items (unless it is a boss drop weapon, more on that in a moment.) and there should be exactly 0 hard to craft T1s.

 

That's something that needs to happen.

The marketplace, as well as most of the game and its balancing is too sloppy and out in the air.

There is no order in the way they categorize things or release things, or balance them.

 

I think that mastery and forma need to be a little more deep in this game, Just adding a poleraztion slot to your burston 4 times is not going to make it as strong as the acrid or the flux rifle.

But... I guess they are working on this atm, so we will see what happens. 

[Blatantfool]

 As cliche as some people here might find it - I believe DE ought to just use item color coding like you see it most games.

 

 Tell me if you recognize this - you should since it is practically a universal language in games now.

 

 T1 = Whites. (Common)

 T2 = Greens. (Uncommons)

 T3 = Blues. (Rares)

 T4 = Purples. (Epics)

And then the 'Unique' or 'Prime' Tier = Gold.(Legendary/Unique)