Ash Or Excalibur?which Is Better,overall?

[R4YCH40S]

So,I'd some doubts on what frame Im gonna use as my secondary frame(atm using Volt)..

I'm quite determined to use a physical oriented frame as my alter(due to electric shocks can't even damage infected properly and I'm not bothered anymore by elemental affinity,so yeah...)

Between Ash and Excalibur,I see both had great potential in them,but I'd no idea how Radial Javelin & Blade Storm works,and also I can see both had different (and unique) ways of manipulating battlefield,through sheer force....

So,please,experienced players that wielded those frames for some time,make your justifications here thank you very much :D

[G3rman]

Both are pretty different in how they play.

Ash takes a certain kind of player to appreciate his abilities that are speed and stealth oriented.

Excalibur is a balanced, melee-type warframe.

[Windbow]

Excalibur is probably the easiest to play. He's quite straight forward. I'm finding ash a bit tricky but I'm still relatively new with him. Need to try the smokey criticals. I do appreciate that Ash is quite fleet of foot though. :)

[Adagio]

exca is more .. straight forward, as he is, well, balanced, enough speed, def and hp, base melee etc

as ash is more to, stealth and melee-ish,

after comparing rhino and exca, i think, each frame have their own base attack rate, if this is the case, you might want to get ash for infested, because i think, he would have more attack rate (i saw a vid of ash with heat sword and attack rate mod which is insanely slashing very fast)

comparing radial javelin and blade storm,

a maxed javelin will have 3 javelin at circular direction that shoots from you, or your melee weapon, which are useless for chargers (they don't take dmg since they are too short) against another enemy it's good enough i think, tho, you might not be able to clear all the mobs arround you due the javelins might hit the same target (dmg is doubled, or even tripled ofc), or hitting a dead body.

blade storm is, on the other side like finishing every of your oponent 1 by 1 in a very fast duration by using blink hit combos, thus more effective in finishing a pack of mobs that you will most likely found in infested levels .. this skill is however said to be a bit buggy, where sometimes you can blink up to about 25 times finishing all the enemies off, and sometimes you just blink for 3 times.

hope this helps !

[R4YCH40S]

I dunno if Im the tricky one or no,but I often find that in melee-close range I often found myself brandishing Skana(yea,newbie here) for a quick charge kill,and even sometimes when opponent isn't alert,I often sneak and sliced him in half before he could react(and yes I do like Melee aspect cause of the Gore...hell yea)

Sometimes I even run through bulletstorms(call me stupid or something,but heck yea I survived) just to rip someone apart....Im crazy and Im pretty much aware of it(thank goodness my shield is super high)

Edited February 10, 2013 by R4YCH40S

[Adagio]

gore !

i think ash is good for you then, it's more .. more specialized in those kind of things i think, and i read somewhere that his movement are fast (might be faster than exca i think)

his smoke-invi-crit skill is a .. melee attack madness ! spam your slash as much as you want mwahahahah !! or just charge attack instead ,,

exca itself have some potent in massive gore tho, hit dash-slash is a .. moving straight with blades in hand, doing dmg over time in those in line (tested with Jackal as he's big, the dmg that comes out are multiplied, thus, dash-slashing it instantly activates its shield) with a slash at the end (dmg is based on your weapon charge dmg)

[R4YCH40S]

Hmmm,seems both of them might be a very viable choice...very well,I shall watch more videos on them and see then...

So,in the meantime,should I get a shotgun to deal with those pesky packs?And slow moving fleshplie Ancients(since I can't fry em with tesla bolts)??

PS:Im currently having some probs with my friend list so Im pretty screwed in getting help,already submitted support after enabling the ports didnt helped much.

On another side note;Should I get Afuris after Aklato?Or keep Aklato?

Edited February 10, 2013 by R4YCH40S

[dragonboss]

I dunno if Im the tricky one or no,but I often find that in melee-close range I often found myself brandishing Skana(yea,newbie here) for a quick charge kill,and even sometimes when opponent isn't alert,I often sneak and sliced him in half before he could react(and yes I do like Melee aspect cause of the Gore...hell yea)

Sometimes I even run through bulletstorms(call me stupid or something,but heck yea I survived) just to rip someone apart....Im crazy and Im pretty much aware of it(thank goodness my shield is super high)

What I like to do sometimes for fun and to level a new melee weapon, is to play on mercuryand melee only, and just wreck everythingwoithout firing a single bullet. I think it possible cosmy excal is lvl 30 with high sheilds and melee though.

[gopher]

Hmmm,seems both of them might be a very viable choice...very well,I shall watch more videos on them and see then...

So,in the meantime,should I get a shotgun to deal with those pesky packs?And slow moving fleshplie Ancients(since I can't fry em with tesla bolts)??

PS:Im currently having some probs with my friend list so Im pretty screwed in getting help,already submitted support after enabling the ports didnt helped much.

On another side note;Should I get Afuris after Aklato?Or keep Aklato?

Shotguns are great for killing infested. The strun is a great cheap option. And don't get afuris, they aren't that good.

[Tsoe]

ASh is broken and annoying to use ATM

his teleport skill request too much aim and need a living one to be teleported near off

makin it pretty useless as emergency escape or strategical move,

lvl up to lvl 22 and well ,

playing without using any abilitie but smoke screen for 3 holy sec to save &#! in case off, but it's pretty short to think about rampaging or so

let say shuriken are allmost fine cause they got percing damage, sadly they dont have enough puncture damage and get stuck in shields

Edited February 11, 2013 by Tsoe

[Volume]

Excal has the best 1 in the game, AoE, invulnerability while casting, 200/400/600 damage to enemies in a line, can hit enemies more than once, is a great escape move and distance closer, and only costs 25 energy.

Ash has the worst 1 in the game.

Excal's 4 does ~1k to every enemy in range, and if you can clip inside of a boss (like Hyena) all javelins will hit the boss (I was able to 2-shot hyena with radial javelin, not sure if this still works though).

Ash's 4 sometimes doesn't even trigger if there's a crate or column in the way before teleporting to the enemy. It's funny because you still lose the 100 energy, yet bladestorm doesn't start. x_X

If Ash was less buggy, I'd say it's a playstyle thing, but as of right now, Excal is better in pretty much every respect.

[Dwei-]

Excal has the best 1 in the game, AoE, invulnerability while casting, 200/400/600 damage to enemies in a line, can hit enemies more than once, is a great escape move and distance closer, and only costs 25 energy.

Ash has the worst 1 in the game.

Excal's 4 does ~1k to every enemy in range, and if you can clip inside of a boss (like Hyena) all javelins will hit the boss (I was able to 2-shot hyena with radial javelin, not sure if this still works though).

Ash's 4 sometimes doesn't even trigger if there's a crate or column in the way before teleporting to the enemy. It's funny because you still lose the 100 energy, yet bladestorm doesn't start. x_X

If Ash was less buggy, I'd say it's a playstyle thing, but as of right now, Excal is better in pretty much every respect.

What Ash can do:

Teleport/Blink away when in the need to run or access an out-of-reach area

Throw Shuriken that can deal about 500 damage when maxed at a long range.

Stun/Turn invisible with GUARENTEED MELEE CRITICAL HITS.

What Excalibur can do:

Slash Dash forward at a long distance killing enemies in that linear direction

Super jump to higher areas

Blind enemies around you, allowing you to finish them off

My verdict?

Ash.

Shuriken: Burst damage at any range, useful when dealing with Ancients but perfectly fine to avoid for more mod slots or stat increases

Smokescreen: Too damn good. Stun everything around you in a small radius, turning invisible, and able to do 100% guarenteed critical melee hits while invisible? Max that out and have fun

Teleport: A bit expensive for energy, but it helps you get out of tight spots or skip areas easier. Sure... Super Jump can get you to higher shelfs and other areas, but Teleport can work at all angles, despite the cost.

Did i mention that the Ash has a moving speed increase with increased melee damage?

I would get Ash if you want to devastate enemies completely with your melee weapon while still having a contingency plan.

Remember that all skills are OPTIONAL and sometimes helpful to avoid to get more mod slots or increased stats!

[neKroMancer]

Ash has a lot of potential but in his current state, he's to be avoided.

Why?

Shuriken is hard to aim. Deal too little damage and mostly useless against moving target. Heavily affected by lag due to traveling speed.

Smoke bomb is good but compared to Loki's invisibility - it's a joke. Same effect with much, much shorter duration.

Teleport just send you closer to enemy barrel without additional effect. No stun, no damage, no debuff.

Bladestrom is just plain buggy.

Excalibur is a better choice ATM. Powerful AOE with slash dash. Stun with radial blind. Get to somewhere you shouldn't with super jump. Javelin is about energy management. Most of the time 3 dash is better than one javelin.

[--Sensei--]

Ash has a lot of potential but in his current state, he's to be avoided.

Why?

Shuriken is hard to aim. Deal too little damage and mostly useless against moving target. Heavily affected by lag due to traveling speed.

Smoke bomb is good but compared to Loki's invisibility - it's a joke. Same effect with much, much shorter duration.

Teleport just send you closer to enemy barrel without additional effect. No stun, no damage, no debuff.

Bladestrom is just plain buggy.

Excalibur is a better choice ATM. Powerful AOE with slash dash. Stun with radial blind. Get to somewhere you shouldn't with super jump. Javelin is about energy management. Most of the time 3 dash is better than one javelin.

Smokescreen lasts 7+ seconds or around there when ranked to lv 3 also stuns enemies in the process while giving crits so no, it's not a joke, it lasts pretty long if you max it and this isn't a comparison between Ash's smoke screen vs Loki's 2nd skill its vs excalibur 2nd skill, because OP wasn't asking for loki, at all.

When ranking Bladestorm to rank 2, it's range is already pretty huge, the only buggyness is being blocked by stairs and falling under them which cancels out the continuation of blade storm, currently bladestorm has a wonky hitbox range, but is pretty good, albeit weird and glitchy stopping at random times but can basically destroy a whole map at rank 2 if your the host though(works better as host for some reason)

I barely use shurkiens mostly because I can just smokescreen and kill everything in 7 seconds with charge melee atk crits, 800-1k dmg as opposed to 500 dmg from shurkien.

Also don't forget Ash's frame base speed is higher than excaliburs and equal to Loki?(idr not sure would have to check), so stacking sprint speed mods is more beneficial to Ash than it is to Exca.

Edited February 11, 2013 by BushidoCode

[R4YCH40S]

Yeap,BushidoCode is ryt,this topic is bout Exca comparing with Ash...Not to say I don't like Loki,but I dont think Loki is the kinda guy that'll own in brute force nor survive in direct confrontation for long,(At least,for my perspective of what I want,sorry).....

Loki is a Manipulator,he's more likely to mess with enemy ranks and pulling off an escape,only to strike back.

And since I like to go head-on melee,I wouldn't want a frame that's focused more on distraction and crowd panic.

Which is why Im opting for Exca Or Ash(Why not Rhino?Too bulky XD,I still like being slender frames as my avatar.)

PS:Heard there's a glitch that's:Exca's Dash Slash cant slice thru those chargers,is that true guys??

Edited February 11, 2013 by R4YCH40S

[Volume]

What Ash can do:

Teleport/Blink away when in the need to run or access an out-of-reach area

Throw Shuriken that can deal about 500 damage when maxed at a long range.

Stun/Turn invisible with GUARENTEED MELEE CRITICAL HITS.

What Excalibur can do:

Slash Dash forward at a long distance killing enemies in that linear direction

Super jump to higher areas

Blind enemies around you, allowing you to finish them off

My verdict?

Ash.

Shuriken: Burst damage at any range, useful when dealing with Ancients but perfectly fine to avoid for more mod slots or stat increases

Smokescreen: Too damn good. Stun everything around you in a small radius, turning invisible, and able to do 100% guarenteed critical melee hits while invisible? Max that out and have fun

Teleport: A bit expensive for energy, but it helps you get out of tight spots or skip areas easier. Sure... Super Jump can get you to higher shelfs and other areas, but Teleport can work at all angles, despite the cost.

Did i mention that the Ash has a moving speed increase with increased melee damage?

I would get Ash if you want to devastate enemies completely with your melee weapon while still having a contingency plan.

Remember that all skills are OPTIONAL and sometimes helpful to avoid to get more mod slots or increased stats!

Anything Ash can do, Loki can do better.

And he wasn't talking about maxxed out stats. Either way they're interchangable, you can complete any content in the game with either frame. That said, Excal has a much better growth curve and is a lot less painful to play until you get fantastic mods or max some skills.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Volume

[Mak_Gohae]

Ex for destroying mobs and Ash is for bosses.

Ex with Slash and Dash alone can clear stages while Ash can smoke bomb a boss to they do nothing.

[Nubsawce]

Shotguns are great for killing infested. The strun is a great cheap option. And don't get afuris, they aren't that good.

Afuris is good, imo, for shooting bosses in the face. It doesn't have the ammo efficiency to last on grunts though, indeed, but I've found the boss damage quite spectacular if you use your long gun for most of the mission.

[Love2Camp]

Ash is a ninja. Excalibur is a paladin. Ninjas > Paladins.

:D

[neKroMancer]

When ranking Bladestorm to rank 2, it's range is already pretty huge, the only buggyness is being blocked by stairs and falling under them which cancels out the continuation of blade storm, currently bladestorm has a wonky hitbox range, but is pretty good, albeit weird and glitchy stopping at random times but can basically destroy a whole map at rank 2 if your the host though(works better as host for some reason)

I barely use shurkiens mostly because I can just smokescreen and kill everything in 7 seconds with charge melee atk crits, 800-1k dmg as opposed to 500 dmg from shurkien.

You have a high opinion of a frame which 2-3 of his abilities are plain useless.

Acorrding to you, bladestrom needs plyaer to host to act properly, has wonky hitbox range, glitching stopping at random, stuck by stair - That's not what I'd call 'good'.

You don't use shuriken and teleport wasn't even mentioned.

Basically, the only power that work is smokescreen.

[--Sensei--]

You have a high opinion of a frame which 2-3 of his abilities are plain useless.

Acorrding to you, bladestrom needs plyaer to host to act properly, has wonky hitbox range, glitching stopping at random, stuck by stair - That's not what I'd call 'good'.

You don't use shuriken and teleport wasn't even mentioned.

Basically, the only power that work is smokescreen.

The wonky hitbox of Bladestorm, I guess should have explained it or worded it better, by that I mean't he can hit a 360 radius around Ash's body or hitbox and at a range as well like form 20 ft away during bladestorm even if he's facing under behind or to the side of a target, it gets killed regardless.

Also the glitchy random stoppings of Bladestorm like falling through stairs is not during Hosting, but when in someone else's party, I should maybe had seperated the text as to not infer they both go hand in hand.

While I agree Bladestorm is currently glitchy when your NOT the host, but when you are, Bladestorm works as intended.

Teleport is not used much just like Excal jump is not used because it's not useful but if I were to choose between the 2 skills, I'd pick teleport mostly because you can teleport a great distance towards either enemies or teammates for a quick escape and small invul time frame during the teleport. Teleport has more utilization as opposed to "Super jump"

Shuriken is okay, since it uses less power 500 dmg for 25 power, but efficiency wise a maxed smokescreen for 7+ seconds using 35 power can yield 800-1k crit dmg non stop for the duration of the smoke screen, can pretty much solo a boss invisible the whole match, depending on one's setup.

Edited February 12, 2013 by BushidoCode

[R4YCH40S]

Seemingly,Bladestorm is nerfed to hitting only a fixed number of targets in a room[6-12?](sorry if I necro'd my post),

But I need more opinions as how am I supposed to utilize Bladestorm anymore....seemingly Excalibur seems to be very good frame for me now...

What's the opinion guys?

PS:Ady started farming Ash and only get 2 parts,namingly:Helmet,Chasis

Edited February 20, 2013 by R4YCH40S

[Nekonomable]

Excaliber. As a long standing fave of mine so far, Ill stick by my sword weilding bamf. Ash is fun. But sadly, blade storm tends to ram you thru and into the floor. XD as funny as it is at points is also highly distabling. The Stealth function is best left to loki, as Ash's doesnt last nearly as long as it should.

[--Sensei--]

Excaliber. As a long standing fave of mine so far, Ill stick by my sword weilding bamf. Ash is fun. But sadly, blade storm tends to ram you thru and into the floor. XD as funny as it is at points is also highly distabling. The Stealth function is best left to loki, as Ash's doesnt last nearly as long as it should.

maxing smokescreen lets u be in stealth for 7-8 seconds as well as causes a huge aoe stun even when your smokescreen doesnt touch the enemies, invisiblity for loki is well invisibility, smokescreen does that while stunning enemies in the process.

[--Sensei--]

Seemingly,Bladestorm is nerfed to hitting only a fixed number of targets in a room[6-12?](sorry if I necro'd my post),

But I need more opinions as how am I supposed to utilize Bladestorm anymore....seemingly Excalibur seems to be very good frame for me now...

What's the opinion guys?

PS:Ady started farming Ash and only get 2 parts,namingly:Helmet,Chasis

Bladestorm has invul frames so u can spam it and not die.

[R4YCH40S]

But I'd be lacking crowd control abilites,unlike my Volt's Overcharge D: