De, Disclose The Rewards Now

[matto]

I made a thread a while ago talking about Warframe's players that you can find in random missions being boring for one main reason : the 0 risk attitude.

I claimed that those players are killing all the fun in Warframe by never pushing themselves further than 15min in survival, 5-10-15 waves (according to the mission's tier) while fighting with high level gear and fully modded.

 

However, after weeks farming those void keys : playing defense missions and survival. I also realized that you're responsible for this behavior. It's a 50/50 situation, and I would say that you get the community you deserve.

And don't be blind as the community on this forum is quite different from the random players you can find in the Warframe Universe.

 

After all, if we are here, discussing, arguing, etc. it's because we are passionate. We can make some harsh criticism, but it only reflects how much we appreciate this game. We found in Warframe, not just "one game among some others", but "one unique game". We are a minority, pushing themselves in mission because we like challenging your game.

 

But you should consider the silent majority who is playing as I said : trying to make the best of their playing time in Warframe, thus leaving missions so soon that Warframe is not fun anymore. It's now a matter of being efficient, trying to get things with less effort and time as playing many times 5-10 waves will get you better rewards than playing 20-25 waves everytime you enter an endless defense mission. And it is the same for survival and the 15min mark.

 

So what I would like to ask you (more like to urge you) is to play the transparency card. We are not as easy to fool as we used to be a few months back. We are now quite settled in here and know your strategy, your course of action. Some of us here, taking part in this forum for a few weeks or months, sometimes a year, are kind of tired to be left in the dark. And it's maybe time to tell us what we're pushing ouselves for, what we're challenging ourselves for.

 

Because I know that you said once in livestream : this is going to be part of the WarDex, you'll have to scan things to know the drops and ressources. Sure, but I can't scan my defense missions nor my survival. And btw you're just putting another wall to hide content behind a "fun way" to now farm scans. Anyway...

 

- Disclose the rewards pool and explain for what tier it is (define tier as what level of ennemy and what mobs, eventually the tier of all survival and defense missions) <-- Void, Derelict and standard missions

 

- Discole the reward system, rates or pool of the void keys.

 

And I will ask another thing : be more transparent about the prime reward rates. Why? I'll give you one example :

I used my plats to get keys as I was exhausted trying to get those damn capture keys. But guess what, I know that if I use them (while I PAYED for them) I am sure at 90% that I will never complete what I am looking for. What kind of strategy is that ?

 

In fact Digital Extremes, while I admire you on your global strategy, I can't help but feel irritated by what's happening since U11. It was ok before, I could just tolerate it. But your strategy became more aggressive somehow, and I, for the first time, felt forced to spend my plats (money) to unlock contents (Void Keys). If it was your purpose since the beginning : good job.

 

But I know that you'll hide behind the fact that we can now get plats for free with trading, so we can buy void keys, etc. etc. everything for free.

 

Just stop trying to find excuses, and be transparent.

 

Like if you support this.

 

PS : One day, you should consider rewarding us for pushing ourselves in your missions. But this is another debate, quite close and intertwined with this one.

 

!UP 21/12/2013

 

For the survival Derelict, getting the same rewards again and again for 5, 10, 20 or 25 min. 1000 credits or fusion cores (now common 3 or rare). We need some tier with rewards that are worth fighting lvl 40-50 toxic. And it would be nice if we could know when we actually have a better chance to get the prime items in the derelict. It's just too random. And those 1000 credits are like a middle finger in our face for lasting 25min solo.

 

More about ODS : https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/152232-orokin-derelict-survival-reward-table-is-a-joke/

Edited January 8, 2014 by matto

[Blatantfool]

 I think being straightforwards about rewards is useful and important.

[bear38122]

add me when you play

I want players that wanna play longer also

same name on here

[Ground.Zero]

I liked and first replier is a real n00b.

 

That comment made me laugh, especially since the first replier removed his post and it's now directed at a moderator. 

[noweakness]

I liked and first replier is a real n00b.

You got tricked real easy, boy. 

Anyway, now for my actual thoughts:

I believe the anonymity is important. It keeps the player coming back instead of just going in ONCE, getting what you need, and never running that mission again. The grind is necessary, whether you like it or not. Without this, there will be very little to bring players back to the game. And I don't want to be "that guy," but having everything handed to us is just no fun. 

Besides, it's not like we don't find out drop rates an hour or so after every update on the wiki.  

Yea actually I do want to be that guy. 

Edited December 11, 2013 by Ennokk

[Blatantfool]

I liked and first replier is a real n00b.

 

 Oi, I'll nok u in da gabber m8.

[General_Krull]

While you're at it, tell us the percentage rates of drops too. Common, uncommon and rare means nothing, what % counts as common or uncommon? What about rare? Why is DE so opposed to players knowing these things?

[Blatantfool]

While you're at it, tell us the percentage rates of drops too. Common, uncommon and rare means nothing, what % counts as common or uncommon? What about rare? Why is DE so opposed to players knowing these things?

 

 This is good too. More info > Less info.

[Sixty5]

We used to have dataminers for that. Though I'm guessing that something will be done soonish.

Mission reward tables have always been an argumentitive point, anyone remember the days of endless hellfire.

[Morgax]

I'd love to know them aswell but my i guess is that i will be depressed, at the end of that rainbow there will be no gold.

[Althix]

 there will be very little to bring players back to the game.

how about... more game modes?

[noweakness]

how about... more game modes?

That isn't what this post is about.

[Zarlockk]

I like to push myself to limits, but sometimes...like now when i am trying to get Ember Prime and Glaive Prime I just get key and out because it is usually defense which i have >20. Guess most other people are the same. Ember Prime is too tempting. And looking at the way Ember parts drop this will take really long time for everyone to get her 

[matto]

I believe the anonymity is important. It keeps the player coming back instead of just going in ONCE, getting what you need, and never running that mission again. The grind is necessary, whether you like it or not. Without this, there will be very little to bring players back to the game. And I don't want to be "that guy," but having everything handed to us is just no fun. 

Besides, it's not like we don't find out drop rates an hour or so after every update on the wiki. 

 

Unfortunately, we can't find drop/reward rates anymore as it is now more based on estimations, average made from XX players playing XX missions getting XX time this item.

 

Players will always go back to this mission or another because we already know that some items' drop chances are close to 1%. It's not like we will know how to get this item for sure and never come back, it's just that we will know how to maximize our chances to get one item.

 

Because atm, I'm playing for nothing everyday, just trying this or that mission, getting sometimes this reward, then never getting it again. Everytime there's an hotfix or update I can help but have this doubt saying "they must have changed the drop tables again and didn't disclose it on the forum".

 

It's all starting to create an atmosphere of suspicion and losing trust.

[noweakness]

Unfortunately, we can't find drop/reward rates anymore as it is now more based on estimations, average made from XX players playing XX missions getting XX time this item.

 

Players will always go back to this mission or another because we already know that some items' drop chances are close to 1%. It's not like we will know how to get this item for sure and never come back, it's just that we will know how to maximize our chances to get one item.

 

Because atm, I'm playing for nothing everyday, just trying this or that mission, getting sometimes this reward, then never getting it again. Everytime there's an hotfix or update I can help but have this doubt saying "they must have changed the drop tables again and didn't disclose it on the forum".

 

It's all starting to create an atmosphere of suspicion and losing trust.

I just don't like the idea of having drop rates, tier chances, etc being publicly exposed. It ruins one of the fundamental aspects of grind games: surprise.

I can understand them telling us what mission drops what loot. That's the same as us knowing that certain bosses drop certain parts for certain frames. But giving the exact drop percentages, meh. IMO that will only make the grind worse because RNG is still RNG, a 33% chance item still isn't 100% and the frustration people will feel when they don't get it after 10 (because that seems to be an OKAY gauge for people to begin raging about RNG) will be much worse than if we didn't know exact drop rates. 

[Renan.Ruivo]

A "please" would go a long way, you know :) (talking about the title.)

That said I do agree that more information is always good, but too much information can be damaging as well.

On this specific case though, I agree.

[General_Krull]

I just don't like the idea of having drop rates, tier chances, etc being publicly exposed. It ruins one of the fundamental aspects of grind games: surprise.

I can understand them telling us what mission drops what loot. That's the same as us knowing that certain bosses drop certain parts for certain frames. But giving the exact drop percentages, meh. IMO that will only make the grind worse because RNG is still RNG, a 33% chance item still isn't 100% and the frustration people will feel when they don't get it after 10 (because that seems to be an OKAY gauge for people to begin raging about RNG) will be much worse than if we didn't know exact drop rates. 

But knowing the exact percentages helps us find out if something is wrong with them. If they say x has 30% drop chance and it never drops we can then point out that something seems to be wrong. More information is never a bad thing.

[MCT360]

-----

http://nl.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1se53m/suggestion_make_survival_more_like_defense_in/

 

in my reddit post

 

The whole concept of survival needs to be rethought because right now its Activation instead of survival srsly i understand that i have to activate life support but that shouldnt keep me from playing it's freakin stupid. They need to take a look at other games Horde mode and how it's done.

 

Don't know if they upped the enemies but theres alot more killing now and i like it.

 

There's isnt as much lag anymore but it's still there after a period of time, up the freakin Netcode already

 

make rewards more rewarding why keep playing, put a rare mod as a reward for 40min or something give people a reason to keep playing other than a crappy key or another useless mod, or give people a choice of 2 reward other than just having to accept 1, and get rid of the credits rewards

 

They should give us a counter for the next life support, I mean does it work on enemies kills, does it work on a timestamp, What????

 

just my 2 cents

 

but i agree, the lack of people trying to push themself forward is really making it boring but this has also been stated by a another forum thread

 

By me

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/145190-so-all-warframes-are-now/#entry1720521

 

by another user(just realized its OP again :D )

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/144653-you-are-responsible-for-killing-all-the-fun-not-de/

 

all in all, i still blame Damage 2.0 for the taking all the fun out the game

Edited December 11, 2013 by MCT360

[noweakness]

But knowing the exact percentages helps us find out if something is wrong with them. If they say x has 30% drop chance and it never drops we can then point out that something seems to be wrong. More information is never a bad thing.

Not really. Back when things were datamined, there were items with pretty high drop rate that never dropped. Such is RNG. 

Edited December 11, 2013 by Ennokk

[Blatantfool]

Not really. Back when things were datamined, there were items with pretty high drop rate that never dropped. Such is RNG. 

 

 Why would that be a reason not to show the rates? 

[noweakness]

 Why would that be a reason not to show the rates? 

I was referring to the fact that we did see the rates and they still did not match up. 

[Althix]

That isn't what this post is about.

no. but from the look of it topic starter can't see one simple truth - game is empty, and grind wall is the only way to keep players playing as it now. if DE will disclose information about what and where, how long you think will it take for players to grind all this stuff m? 5-7 hours?

[SpFinX]

Void rewards... how much is hidden in this words for WF player =)

 

There is only one answer that'll satisfy most players completely: Void tokens.

[noweakness]

no. but from the look of it topic starter can't see one simple truth - game is empty, and grind wall is the only way to keep players playing as it now. if DE will disclose information about what and where, how long you think will it take for players to grind all this stuff m? 5-7 hours?

Pretty much, that's what I mentioned in my original post. People will just run that specific mission until they get what they want and never run it again. 

Keep the anonymity, keep your players. There will of course be people that rage over RNG, but they must not be very experienced in the world of grind games and can either get used to it or go play WoW. 

...That sounded less crude in my head, but I like it. 

Edited December 11, 2013 by Ennokk

[Blatantfool]

I was referring to the fact that we did see the rates and they still did not match up.

The rates we saw were all approximations. Datamined stats are always going to be a little inaccurate. They just served to give people a good idea of where to get a certain thing. At the time they also let us see that some stats were pretty crazy unfair.

Besides, even if - in your experience - a moderately rare item was being stubborn and wouldn't drop, other players were probably getting it plenty.

Like how other players actually have trouble getting the mod Flow - but I have like 10 copies of it. Things like this are in the air, such is RNG. But the information behind it still can't hurt.