Please Fix Synoid Gammacor

[Snydrex]

Put it back to the way it used to be

 

Et tu, balance?

[THND3RZ]

"i can't use my secondary wepaon as a death ray primary weapon y u do dis de :( " 

[Duch99pl]

its fine, weapons like Marelok or Lex Prime should be the kings

[UltimateSpinDash]

If that happens everything just goes back to square 1. What the synoid needs is a good enough ammo economy to be usable in conjunction with a primary without a mutation. Putting it back to how it was before the nerfs will just sir up more nerf threads and eventually, DE will crack and give them what they want. We need to have it at a happy medium where it's not so bad, but not as over centralizing as it was. 

Why should it be usable without a mutation? Mutations are made to help / fix the weakness of weapons like this.

Since you are already carrying your primary, how about using THAT when your pistol ammo runs out?

[Marthrym]

 

No, it didn't.

Strange how you only quoted the first part of the sentence and conveniently "forgot" the "only marginally" part. Nice try in manipulating posts mate, Epic fail though...

The DPS did go down. It did. Sorry to burst your bubble or whatever. But I'll "repeat" it once again, it's marginal, and the Synoid's DPS is still up there.

 

All the Gammacor needs is a slight ammo consumption reduction between how it is now and how it was before, to make it less ret@rded. Nothing more.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Marthrym

[(XBOX)BADBOY182]

Ya the Gammacor needs to be put back the way it was it not even close to the damage it was and don't post # and stats I use it and have used it for over a mouth on Xbox and longer on pc I know what the gun does want from 3000 magnetic damage to 650 it sucks no I have spent hours setting this gun up right just to have it screwed up.

[CheckYourSix]

I have a 7 polarity slotted synoid gammacor that I'm weening away from now that I maxed out my vaykor. Basically the Synoid Gammer is an OK weapon, but not the "best" anymore. I had the following mod setup for it

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_33302222_193-5-5-195-0-5-204-4-10-205-7-3-206-6-5-209-1-5-210-3-5-487-2-10_195-6-209-6-487-8-210-9-204-7-193-6-206-6-205-5/en/3-0-55

 

This setup is fairly sustainable through most missions. The extra mag size from Ice storm with only a slight bump to fire rate from lethal torrent allow for a longer continuous fire rate than without ice storm. Along with Pistol mutation you can fire it more often although continuous fire is nothing something you should do as you will burn through all ammo very quickly still.

 

The dps is still decent overall. Still in the wrong situation you can find yourself without any ammo very quickly. This is the main reason I've switched to the vaykor with the following setup for myself.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Vaykor_Marelok/t_30_22203003_193-1-5-204-0-10-205-6-3-206-2-5-212-5-3-263-3-3-487-7-10-532-4-5_204-7-193-6-206-6-263-7-532-6-212-7-205-9-487-8/en/3-0-53

 

As a status gun it's just insane! Especially if I switch things around for what I'm fighting against. near 100% status chance proc every shot makes for some massive damage numbers despite the lower raw burst dps number shown on that builder. The ammo economy is great as it is a semi auto pistol with 14 magazine size with ice storm and 210 ammo reserve. Not going to run out of ammo with the gun on any mission type ever. 1 or 2 shots basically anything you aim it at. The recoil is a bit tricky to get used to, but once you are used to the recoil it doesn't matter as I am sniping headshots with the gun over and over.

 

Unless they change the Synoid Gammacor to be a base of 5 to 7 fire rate, I don't think I'm going to be using it as my main goto secondary anymore. Just not worth the hassle.

[Bacl]

 

Oxygen on the planet you live on?

 

Comparisons:

 

Synoid Gammacor, compared to the Gammacor:

• Much higher rate of fire. (15 rounds/sec vs. 5 rounds/sec)
• Lower damage per unit of ammo. (28.0 vs. 50.0)
  • Much higher DPS. (420.0/s vs. 250.0/s)
• Higher crit chance. (10.0% vs. 5.0%)
• Higher crit damage. (200.0% vs. 150.0%)
• Higher status chance. (20.0% vs. 5.0%)
• Greater magazine size. (150 rounds vs. 50 rounds)
  • Same time to discharge magazine, equal frequency of reloading. (10 sec)
• Higher ammo reserve. (450 vs. 210)
  • Lower time to discharge entire ammo pool. (34 sec vs. 50 sec)
  • Higher total reserve damage. (12,600 vs. 10,500)

 

 

I wont agree with the fact the regular gammacor is better than the synoid version but it is much easier to handle now.

 

Note both weapons got the same build, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent, Hornet Strike, Pistol ammo mutation and all 4 dual elemental mods.

 

Gammacor

 

1523.20          total damage                       

12185.60        burst dps

9231.52          sustained dps

 

2.80                bullets

8.00                fire rate

50                   magazine

2.00                reload

210.00            ammo

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Synoid Gammacor

 

853.00            total damage

20472.00        burst dps

15509.09        sustained dps

 

2.80                bullets

24.00              fire rate

150                 magazine

2.00                reload

450.00            ammo

 

Yes SG does more damage and they both empty at similar rate, but the regular gammacor is much easier to handle with a pistol ammo mutation.

So either you go with the one that deals a lot of damage but that will fail you more sooner than leter or you get the dollar store version that is more reliable.

 

The shame is is the fact that we invested a lot of ressoruces to get the gammacor, from the Loki P helmet, to formas, blue potato and the ressources and credits to unlocks the Genius rank. Its a let down.

 

It does more damage but is much less reliable. The good way to do this thing would have been to keep it the way it was but simpley nerf the base damage by 25%/ 30%. This should have been the Synoid Gammacor.

[Vargras]

I feel like the Synoid Gammacor topics are always made by people who just forget that primaries even exist.

[AutoPhox]

I feel like the Synoid Gammacor topics are always made by people who just forget that primaries even exist.

IKR. Honest question: when people say SG is no good because of ammo problems, do they only bring SG or do they imply that there is still problems even when switching weapons as needed?

[Reaver_X]

how about "This weapon still runs out of ammo faster than i can replace it even with ammo mutation".

 

 

i hate how people say just slap on a ammo mutation mod, this sort of works for a short time, but if you spend any time in the void or in longer darksectors, it quickly ends up falling prey to its ammo consuption.

 

doesnt matter how strong it is, because you can't do any damage when your running dry and burst dps won't kill the mobs.

[Vargras]

how about "This weapon still runs out of ammo faster than i can replace it even with ammo mutation".

 

 

i hate how people say just slap on a ammo mutation mod, this sort of works for a short time, but if you spend any time in the void or in longer darksectors, it quickly ends up falling prey to its ammo consuption.

 

doesnt matter how strong it is, because you can't do any damage when your running dry and burst dps won't kill the mobs.

Swap to your primary while building ammo back up, just like every other secondary. Or even a melee weapon.

 

Why is this such a foreign concept?

[Flowen231]

Why should it be usable without a mutation? Mutations are made to help / fix the weakness of weapons like this.

Since you are already carrying your primary, how about using THAT when your pistol ammo runs out?

For 3 reasons. 1) There are more viable late game secondaries that without mutation have a better ammo economy than the synoid with mutation.

 

2) Even when you use the synoid+mutation in conjunction with a primary weapon (lets say boltor or soma just because they are the most popular) once the primary runs dry and you can barely scrape ammo for it, the synoid will soon follow since, as stated above; Mutation does not let the synoid get back more ammo than it expands.

 

3) It's a syndicate weapon that takes longer to obtain than just about anything else in the game, it's supposed to be head and shoulders above most weapons (just not over centralizing as I stated). And I'd make that argument about any syndicate weapon, not just the synoid. The seccestra need less recoil and a bit more power, the sancastanas should have close to the same power as a launcher because of their limited uses before you are forced to detonate them and because they are the slowest firing of the bunch, Telos should get a slight buff in damage, unless you use macros, it's hard to get accurate and consistent high burst DPS out of them.

 

As I said, I don't want the old broken synoid, I just want something that can be used in conjunction with a primary without mutation being a requirement that doesn't even work in a worthwhile run.

 

Swap to your primary while building ammo back up, just like every other secondary. Or even a melee weapon.

 

Why is this such a foreign concept?

Because it doesn't work, even with a mutation mod on. If you are playing any late game content. Once your primary runs out of ammo, the synoid will follow, and even with a mutation you won't get back ammo as fast as you lose it.

[Reaver_X]

For 3 reasons. 1) There are more viable late game secondaries that without mutation have a better ammo economy than the synoid with mutation.

 

2) Even when you use the synoid+mutation in conjunction with a primary weapon (lets say boltor or soma just because they are the most popular) once the primary runs dry and you can barely scrape ammo for it, the synoid will soon follow since, as stated above; Mutation does not let the synoid get back more ammo than it expands.

 

3) It's a syndicate weapon that takes longer to obtain than just about anything else in the game, it's supposed to be head and shoulders above most weapons (just not over centralizing as I stated). And I'd make that argument about any syndicate weapon, not just the synoid. The seccestra need less recoil and a bit more power, the sancastanas should have close to the same power as a launcher because of their limited uses before you are forced to detonate them and because they are the slowest firing of the bunch, Telos should get a slight buff in damage, unless you use macros, it's hard to get accurate and consistent high burst DPS out of them.

 

As I said, I don't want the old broken synoid, I just want something that can be used in conjunction with a primary without mutation being a requirement that doesn't even work in a worthwhile run.

 

Because it doesn't work, even with a mutation mod on. If you are playing any late game content. Once your primary runs out of ammo, the synoid will follow, and even with a mutation you won't get back ammo as fast as you lose it.

 

 

unless you use ammo restores, which is ifine for your primary, but, to keep up with synoid u'd have to drop like...3 at a time, lol.

 

you should at least be able to take out several enemies with a full mag on synoid though. at high levels i can only take out about 2 ancients before i need to reload (if its an eximus its even worse)

[Bacl]

Swap to your primary while building ammo back up, just like every other secondary. Or even a melee weapon.

 

Why is this such a foreign concept?

 

Not because you have a weapon called ''primary'' that the ''secondary'' should be there only as backup. The Marelok is doing much better than a lot of Primaries there and its fine, if you want to go wild west style in space with Marelok then got for it.

 

Primary and secondary shouldn't be a limiting factor here. Your main DPS source close combat is the Brakk while your long range Primary could be a penta or Ogris to clear out mobs before they come in. Play the way you want to play, yes the SG was too strong and needed a nerf but thats doesnt justify the double ( or triple) nerf on the poor thing.

 

Lol my Armtsrung is my main gun and it does even more damage than a Ogris when you shot all the rockets at once, should it be nerfed?

Edited May 4, 2015 by Bacl

[CheckYourSix]

I feel like the Synoid Gammacor topics are always made by people who just forget that primaries even exist.

 

WTF? it's a weapon slot, Not Rifle and sidearm comparison to real world bullS#&$.

 

This game isn't designed around real world combat scenarios so even making that equation insinuation is stupid.

 

BALANCE in a game is being able to take any equally "tiered" weapon by itself and reap similar results. Who gives a flying fart what "slot" the weapon is in.

 

Right now the weapons for the secondary slots are FAR more powerful than those in the primary slots due to mod allocation only. That's it. Because of that, you can forget completely about primary slot weapons or melee weapons because the balance in this game favors secondary slot weapons due to mods. Complain about the MODS and not the weapons if that is your problem. If you want primaries to be equal in terms of raw power as secondaries the express those concerns to DE instead of making stupid asinine comparisons of bad judgement in threads like these where they don't reflect the reality of the game in its current state.

 

Stupidest argument ever and it keeps being brought up.

 

The comparison here is for secondary weapons and their relative power level and usefulness. Synoid Gammacor was THE best secondary, and this best weapon, in the game until the recent nerf. Now it is not. Which is fine. The question now becomes the following. Did the nerf "balance" out the Synoid Gammacor in relation to other secondaries or did it go to far? Many agree that the nerf went a tad bit too far except those too blind to see the numbers of the math for what they really are.

 

Who cares, using my maxed forma vaykor marelok and ripping S#&$ just as easy as I ever did with my pre-nerf Synoid. It completely dominates the current state of the Synoid to the point that it makes the Synoid a joke in comparison.

[AutoPhox]

WTF? it's a weapon slot, Not Rifle and sidearm comparison to real world bullS#&$.

 

This game isn't designed around real world combat scenarios so even making that equation insinuation is stupid.

 

BALANCE in a game is being able to take any equally "tiered" weapon by itself and reap similar results. Who gives a flying fart what "slot" the weapon is in.

 

Right now the weapons for the secondary slots are FAR more powerful than those in the primary slots due to mod allocation only. That's it. Because of that, you can forget completely about primary slot weapons or melee weapons because the balance in this game favors secondary slot weapons due to mods. Complain about the MODS and not the weapons if that is your problem. If you want primaries to be equal in terms of raw power as secondaries the express those concerns to DE instead of making stupid asinine comparisons of bad judgement in threads like these where they don't reflect the reality of the game in its current state.

 

Stupidest argument ever and it keeps being brought up.

 

The comparison here is for secondary weapons and their relative power level and usefulness. Synoid Gammacor was THE best secondary, and this best weapon, in the game until the recent nerf. Now it is not. Which is fine. The question now becomes the following. Did the nerf "balance" out the Synoid Gammacor in relation to other secondaries or did it go to far? Many agree that the nerf went a tad bit too far except those too blind to see the numbers of the math for what they really are.

 

Who cares, using my maxed forma vaykor marelok and ripping S#&$ just as easy as I ever did with my pre-nerf Synoid. It completely dominates the current state of the Synoid to the point that it makes the Synoid a joke in comparison.

You can address his point without the insults and negativity

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

I'd be comfortable if it had the 5 fire rate of the gammacor or was at least dropped down to a 7.5 with the old 75 point battery (Does it recharge by magnetic induction? Why does wiggling refill it?). 

 

It being really slow with high damage meant that you could S#&$ the DPS up really easily with some fire rate, but right now it's too fast. It went from being efficient like a Marelok or Opticor to an ammo guzzler like twin auto pistols. I think everyone who signed up wanted the former. There isn't enough of the former.

Edited May 4, 2015 by (PS4)Snowbluff

[MidnightDreary]

Strange how you only quoted the first part of the sentence and conveniently "forgot" the "only marginally" part. Nice try in manipulating posts mate, Epic fail though...

The DPS did go down. It did. Sorry to burst your bubble or whatever. But I'll "repeat" it once again, it's marginal, and the Synoid's DPS is still up there.

 

All the Gammacor needs is a slight ammo consumption reduction between how it is now and how it was before, to make it less ret@rded. Nothing more.

 

What math are you using? 

 

Damage x Rate of Fire = DPS

 

NEW Synoid Gammacor:  28 damage x 15 fire rate = 420 DPS  ( reference http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synoid_Gammacor )

 

OLD Synoid Gammacor:  210 damage x 2 fire rate = 420 DPS ( reference http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synoid_Gammacor?oldid=907445 )

[Bacl]

Phage

I'd be comfortable if it had the 5 fire rate of the gammacor or was at least dropped down to a 7.5 with the old 75 point battery (Does it recharge by magnetic induction? Why does wiggling refill it?). 

 

It being really slow with high damage meant that you could S#&$ the DPS up really easily with some fire rate, but right now it's too fast. It went from being efficient like a Marelok or Opticor to an ammo guzzler like twin auto pistols. I think everyone who signed up wanted the former. There isn't enough of the former.

 

Gammacor, lasers to hold on the target like the Quantas and Phage, you hold it on and the thing dies, eventually for the expense of very low ammo comssumption.

 

Reduce the base damage but put it with these slow but hard hitting guys.  Seriously The Quanta is 220 damage. Give Synoid Gammacor its old stats, slow the firing rate, reduce its damage to 200 or even 190 ( so the purist of '' secondary weapon cant be stronger than primary'' can be happy about it) and voila!

 

Hard hitting, no insane DPS and ammo desintegration, viable and easy to use.

 

Posted Today, 06:55 PM

Marthrym, on 04 May 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

Strange how you only quoted the first part of the sentence and conveniently "forgot" the "only marginally" part. Nice try in manipulating posts mate, Epic fail though...

The DPS did go down. It did. Sorry to burst your bubble or whatever. But I'll "repeat" it once again, it's marginal, and the Synoid's DPS is still up there.

 

All the Gammacor needs is a slight ammo consumption reduction between how it is now and how it was before, to make it less ret@rded. Nothing more.

 

What math are you using? 

 

Damage x Rate of Fire = DPS

 

NEW Synoid Gammacor:  28 damage x 15 fire rate = 420 DPS  ( reference http://warframe.wiki...Synoid_Gammacor )

 

OLD Synoid Gammacor:  210 damage x 2 fire rate = 420 DPS ( reference http://warframe.wiki...or?oldid=907445 )

 

 

 

Yeah burning your already nerfed max ammo count 7 times faster for the same results... Not that efficient if you ask me.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Bacl

[Vargras]

You can address his point without the insults and negativity

I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish either.

 

I was simply trying to say that I wouldn't even call the ammo consumption change a big deal. You run out or run low, you swap to another weapon while you collect pistol ammo, and then you can go back to using it (or use ammo restores). So many people seem to bring it up as if that's all they can use.

[MidnightDreary]

Yeah burning your already nerfed max ammo count 7 times faster for the same results... Not that efficient if you ask me.

 

I'm in no way, shape, or form saying the ammo efficiency is good.  I was only disputing the claim of reduced DPS.  It is the exact same DPS, but with much less ammo efficiency.  A fine secondary weapon still, in my opinion, but needs a companion weapon to help out.

 

Primary and secondary weapons should compliment each other.  If you have an insane rate of fire primary, like a grakata, then perhaps a marelok secondary is a good pair.  If you are sporting the dex furis secondary, then maybe a burston P or latron P would be a good choice for primary.  I'm confident in my melee abilities, so I don't mind running something like a soma / aksomati pair just to have an excuse to melee when I run out of ammo.

 

[CheckYourSix]

I'm not sure what they were trying to accomplish either.

 

I was simply trying to say that I wouldn't even call the ammo consumption change a big deal. You run out or run low, you swap to another weapon while you collect pistol ammo, and then you can go back to using it (or use ammo restores). So many people seem to bring it up as if that's all they can use.

 

Ammo mutation mods do not work if the weapon is holstered. So if you pull out a primary weapon to use while waiting for the SG to get more ammo then you will probably finish whatever mission you are doing before you can get a chance to fire the SG again as you'll only be picking up pistol ammo to refill it and whatever ammo type the current primary slot gun you have out and shooting with. Which makes for a very slow recharge of ammo on the SG.

 

I was being very asinine because that argument has been brought up a LOT and it's a completely bogus argument without merit to compare the slots weapons are for balance with the way mods are.

 

If DE wanted to make this a weapon swapping game then no gun would be ammo efficient at all. That is simply not true in this game so the game is not designed to be a weapon swapping game at all. That doesn't mean players can't play that way by using piss poor ammo consumption weapons, but that is not how the game is designed nor balanced. Nor has it ever been. Speaking of which, simply put, DE is horrible when it comes to balance in this game. Straight up. But it really doesn't matter as there is sooooo many different weapons of somewhat equal strength that players can choose from that the relative bad balance between specifics gets lost in the multitude.

 

The point being that the SG was very powerful before and that is no longer the case. There are other effective weapons out there for end game that now eclipse the current SG. I, like many other players, chose to use those weapons now instead. Most of us feel a bit cheated that DE nerfed the weapon so drastically especially considering many people spent real money to get the weapon to its maximum potential with using multiple forma that more than likely cost plat in game to acquire. We are hoping DE sees the light and actually address the weapon to bring it back in to balance with other guns that now are flat out better than it.

[Vargras]

If DE wanted to make this a weapon swapping game then no gun would be ammo efficient at all. That is simply not true in this game so the game is not designed to be a weapon swapping game at all.

Last I checked, most of the secondaries chewed through ammo, and some primaries as well (Boar Prime being the best example).

 

I don't get how you can say that it's simply "not true".

[Flowen231]

Last I checked, most of the secondaries chewed through ammo, and some primaries as well (Boar Prime being the best example).

 

I don't get how you can say that it's simply "not true".

Essentially, an ammo mutation mod simply does not replenish enough ammo for the synoid to sustain itself when in conjunction with a primary (I'm using the soma and boltor prime for this example since they are the most popular primaries at the minute). Basically, when you run dry with the synoid, you swap to your primary, that's common sense and that works for a while. But if you are running a high level endless mission, the synoid will exhaust more ammo than it can replenish, and when you reach the point where that is also the case with your primary, you won't be able to collect ammo fast enough with either weapon and at that point melee tends to be useless unless you are rocking a stealth frame.

 

What I'm pulling for is a happy medium where the synoid doesn't need an ammo mutation to function hand in hand with a primary (like other, more late game viable secondaries are able to do), but not to the point where it was before the nerf, because anyone with a brain stem can see that it was way too powerful back then.