Main Menu - Market - Unable To Browse Featured Page With Controller.

[dandeloreon]

The main page of the market does not allow me to change the currently active page with the Controller.

Steps to reproduce:
1) Open up the Market Menu.
2) Attempt to change which page you are viewing with the left and right bumper. This should behave in a fashion similar to the Foundry, Mods, and The Feature page using the d-pad or left analog on the Controller. This does not work, however this should work the same as the other market pages.
3) Change tab with the mouse.
4) Attempt to change tab with Controller. This still does not work.


UI Porting Guideline - The Market menu itself completely lacks all Controller hints that are on the XBOX One. This makes this menu hard to work with. I recommend as a quick fix to port this over from the Xbox One, and To test the menu with one of the Xbox 360 controllers I recommended seeing as how these controllers require no additional software on Windows Vista and up.

Quick Note: This is an attempt to bring my original thread into compliance with the UI bug report guidelines

[dandeloreon]

The Featured page of the market does not allow me to browse the items on this page using the game pad.

Steps to reproduce:
1) Open up the Market Menu.
2) Attempt to navigate The Feature page using the d-pad or left analog on the Controller. This does not work, however this should work the same as the other market pages.
3) Purchase one of the items using the gamepad. ( This is done by pressing A on the gamepad Twice.)
4) Change active tab to with the mouse. ( I recommend using "Warframes", "Weapons", "Equipment" or "Bundles" tabs seeing as how these worked last I checked.)
5) Navigate the newly activated page using the D-Pad and Left analog on the gamepad. This should work as expected. The only part that does not work is the Left and right Bumper changing the active tab.

UI Porting Guideline - The Market menu itself completely lacks all Controller hints that are on the XBOX One. This makes this menu hard to work with. I recommend as a quick fix to port this over from the Xbox One, and To test the menu with one of the Xbox 360 controllers I recommended seeing as how these controllers require no additional software on Windows Vista and up.

Quick Note: This is an attempt to bring my original thread into compliance with the UI bug report guidelines

[dandeloreon]

The main page of the Foundry does not allow me to browse the items on this page using the game pad.

Steps to reproduce:
1) Open up the Foundry Menu.
2) Attempt to navigate The Feature page using the d-pad or left analog on the Controller.

3) Press A on the gamepad on desired Item to be built.

UI Porting Guideline - The Foundry menu itself completely lacks all Controller hints that are on the XBOX One. This makes this menu hard to work with. I recommend as a quick fix to port this over from the Xbox One, and To test the menu with one of the Xbox 360 controllers I recommended seeing as how these controllers require no additional software on Windows Vista and up.

Quick Note: This is an attempt to bring my original thread into compliance with the UI bug report guidelines

Edited May 26, 2015 by dandeloreon

[dandeloreon]

The Codex does not allow me to Change the currently active tab with the Controller.

Steps to reproduce:
1) Open up the Codex Menu.
2) Attempt to change which page you are viewing with the left and right bumper. This should behave in a fashion similar to the Foundry, Mods, and The Feature page using the d-pad or left analog on the Controller.
3) Change tab with the mouse.
4) Attempt to change tab with Controller. This still does not work.


UI Porting Guideline - The Codex menu itself completely lacks all Controller hints that are on the XBOX One. This makes this menu hard to work with. I recommend as a quick fix to port this over from the Xbox One, and To test the menu with one of the Xbox 360 controllers I recommended seeing as how these controllers require no additional software on Windows Vista and up.

Quick Note: This is an attempt to bring my original thread into compliance with the UI bug report guidelines.

Edited May 26, 2015 by dandeloreon

[Latiac]

I tried using a DS4 on it using a program that tricks the OS into thinking it's a 360 controller, I can't remember it working either.

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

Merged Multiple Threads - DE is aware of the issues dandeloreon.  Please don't create multiple threads, feel free to reply to this one however.

[dandeloreon]

The Incubator Menu does not respond to the gamepad at all.

Steps to reproduce:
1) Open up the Incubator Menu.
2) At this point the user interface hints should help you along, but there is none. This means that you haft to own a working mouse to be able to use this menu.

3) Tasks to check: ( I know that all of these tasks currently cannot be done with a gamepad )

3a) Place a kubrow in stasis.

3b) take a kubrow out of stasis.

3c) Incubate a new kubrow.

3d) give your kubrow it's shots.

3e) Give your kubrow some attention.

3f) Give your kubrow a new Haircut.

3g) Give your kubrow a bath in dye.

3h) Give your kubrow to the lotus. ( Untested, However, this should be checked. )

Major Note: I know this should be separate Threads, but I can't separate it because this menu takes an excessive amounts of time to check that all things are working. This means that a pc developer is needed to verify that everything is working when using a controller. As it stands now I am absolutely certain that i am unable to incubate a new kubrow, bring an old kubrow out of stasis, and put the current kubrow into stasis. Right now all of my Kubrows are in stasis because this menu is completely broken. The only part I know that works is that you can exit the incubator menu by pressing the B button on the controller.


UI Porting Guideline - The Incubator menu itself completely lacks all Controller hints that are on the XBOX One. This makes this menu hard to work with. I recommend as a quick fix to port this over from the Xbox One, and To test the menu with one of the Xbox 360 controllers I recommended seeing as how these controllers require no additional software on Windows Vista and up.

Quick Note: This is an attempt to bring my original thread into compliance with the [url=https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/260146-ui-bug-report-guidelines-please-read/]UI bug report guidelines.

[[DE]Connor]

Thanks for following the guidelines dandelorean, this is the kind of info that makes our jobs much easier!

 

These bugs are pretty similar, so doing them all in one post like you had before is acceptable. I'm actually noticing a lack of control in other similar places as well, so those will be reported too.

[dandeloreon]

I tried using a DS4 on it using a program that tricks the OS into thinking it's a 360 controller, I can't remember it working either.

I believe You are talking about X360CE ( https://github.com/x360ce/x360ce ). I am fully aware of this program, and I am honestly avoiding the use of this program to avoid confusing situations in determining where the actual bugs are at.

 

Merged Multiple Threads - DE is aware of the issues dandeloreon.  Please don't create multiple threads, feel free to reply to this one however.

I'll go ahead and do exactly that. My next post will be another bug report. Also, Can you please merge my other thread ( https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/464983-main-menu-incubator-does-not-respond-to-gamepad-input/ ) into this thread?

 

Thanks for following the guidelines dandelorean, this is the kind of info that makes our jobs much easier!

 

These bugs are pretty similar, so doing them all in one post like you had before is acceptable. I'm actually noticing a lack of control in other similar places as well, so those will be reported too.

Thank you for responding, and I honestly hope the issues are fixed right away. I believe that the XBOX one edition holds a treasure trove of information that probably needs to be added to the pc edition. The biggest part that could be of use is the Xbox One User Interface Hints as to what to press on the controller to activate certain functionality. I believe these hints can be hidden in a configuration option found in either the launcher or the in-game menus. I personally think the option should be in both locations.

[[DE]Pablo]

To get the same control scheme and callouts as you do on console, you need to run the game with Steam's 'Big Picture' mode.

 

We don't actively support the use of controller when running the game outside of Big Picture mode to be completely 1 to 1 with how console versions function, since this would add a lot of overhead to our development process.

 

We have played around with adding a prompt when starting the game, if you have a controller connected for you to decide if you want to run with controller or with mouse and keyboard, but a hybrid mode is not something we have any plans of supporting.

[Latiac]

I believe You are talking about X360CE ( https://github.com/x360ce/x360ce ). I am fully aware of this program, and I am honestly avoiding the use of this program to avoid confusing situations in determining where the actual bugs are at.

 

 

No actually, I use a program that goes by SCPServer, or something like that.

[dandeloreon]

To get the same control scheme and callouts as you do on console, you need to run the game with Steam's 'Big Picture' mode.

 

We don't actively support the use of controller when running the game outside of Big Picture mode to be completely 1 to 1 with how console versions function, since this would add a lot of overhead to our development process.

 

We have played around with adding a prompt when starting the game, if you have a controller connected for you to decide if you want to run with controller or with mouse and keyboard, but a hybrid mode is not something we have any plans of supporting.

 

I understand, and I frequently find myself launching the game from systems that have the game installed from different methods. Frequently, I do not launch the game through steam, and thus I do not have the option to enable the Steam "Big Picture Mode". Is it possible to go ahead and add an option to the game's launcher to make the game behave as though it was launched through Steam's Big picture mode? I think this would be an improvement since users can actively state that they want improved controller support at the launch. This can probably also be used to gather statistics of how many users actually use a controller on the pc edition to decide if it is worth the extra resources to further improve the controller support.

[mrecentric]

since this would add a lot of overhead to our development process.

 

We have played around with adding a prompt when starting the game, if you have a controller connected for you to decide if you want to run with controller or with mouse and keyboard, but a hybrid mode is not something we have any plans of supporting.

 

May I ask why, specifically, this is a problem for DE & Warframe? The vast majority of games out there support controllers these days. You guys already support controllers, but not in the same way everyone else does. I'm just curious.

Edited May 26, 2015 by mrecentric

[dandeloreon]

May I ask why, specifically, this is a problem for DE & Warframe? The vast majority of games out there support controllers these days. You guys already support controllers, but not in the same way everyone else does. I'm just curious.

 

I am also curious as well about this, after all I am not asking that DE implement all of the features with full gamepad support. After all, I figure it is perfectly reasonable to require a keyboard and mouse for anything that absolutely requires you to enter text in. The list is as follows...

 

 

• Type in the password to login.

• Respond ( or send ) messages in the various chat channels.

• Send a message to another tenno ( includes replying )

• Send a gift to a tenno that is not in your friend list or clan.

• Name your kubrow.

• Name your Clan.

• Change the Clan Announcement.

 

 

There may be a few other things I am forgetting, but this should cover most of it.

Edited May 26, 2015 by dandeloreon

[[DE]Pablo]

The problem comes because the screens behave differently depending on if you are using controller or if you are using keyboard and mouse.

 

For example on color picker with controller you first have to select a palette and then a color, with mouse you can select either one at any time. Another example is the genetic lab, with mouse the camera will pan based on mouse position but on controller it will pan based on which element is focused. And then there's obviously callouts, we only show callouts if you are playing with controller and based on this we often have to realign things on the screen on the fly. We have over 100 screens in the game, so there's lots and lots of little differences like this.

 

There's many ways to do a UI that works with both input methods, most games do a pretty quick and dirty thing that is just turning callouts into clickable options, but then you miss out on interactions like drag and drop, or pretty much any mouse based interactions. Diablo 3 and the Witcher 2 on the other hand, made completely new UI for their console release. Transistor was really cool, if you started using controller all callouts would fade in, then press keyboard or mouse and they would fade out, really nicely done.

 

We went with a different method, where we add custom logic to each screen so it adapts to each input mode, this makes for UI that works well on both input methods, without feeling made for one or the other, but makes a hybrid input harder.

[mrecentric]

In other words, eye candy instead of functionality? ( I'm not trying to be mean, that's just how I interpret what you said ). It just hurts that you guys do things like bend over backwards for XP users on 32 bit systems but you won't even properly support controller users on the PC. You might want to obtain some consultants who can advise you where to invest your development time. I know you guys try really hard as developers and I'm appreciative of your efforts and responsiveness but decisions like this make me sad.

 

PS: I work as a UI developer of sorts so I understand what you're going through with regards to different input types using different UIs. I'd vastly prefer a universal interface rather than different ones, but I understand that you have a different opinion.

Edited May 26, 2015 by mrecentric

[dandeloreon]

The problem comes because the screens behave differently depending on if you are using controller or if you are using keyboard and mouse.

 

For example on color picker with controller you first have to select a palette and then a color, with mouse you can select either one at any time. Another example is the genetic lab, with mouse the camera will pan based on mouse position but on controller it will pan based on which element is focused. And then there's obviously callouts, we only show callouts if you are playing with controller and based on this we often have to realign things on the screen on the fly. We have over 100 screens in the game, so there's lots and lots of little differences like this.

 

There's many ways to do a UI that works with both input methods, most games do a pretty quick and dirty thing that is just turning callouts into clickable options, but then you miss out on interactions like drag and drop, or pretty much any mouse based interactions. Diablo 3 and the Witcher 2 on the other hand, made completely new UI for their console release. Transistor was really cool, if you started using controller all callouts would fade in, then press keyboard or mouse and they would fade out, really nicely done.

 

We went with a different method, where we add custom logic to each screen so it adapts to each input mode, this makes for UI that works well on both input methods, without feeling made for one or the other, but makes a hybrid input harder.

OK, I'll play your game. Here is a nice tidbit. I am able to reproduce all of my bugs without a gamepad. The trick is to reproducing all of my bugs with a keyboard and mouse is to simply ignore the mouse. This would mean that all of the menus should be fully functional if you use only a keyboard. The general key bindings for all menus with a keyboard are as follows...

M - Change tab one to Left

N - Change Tab one to right

arrow keys - browse the menu

W, Up arrow - Navigate up.

S, Down arrow - Navigate Down

A, Left arrow - Navigate Left

D, Right Arrow - Navigate Right.

L key - Arsenel - View Powers

Y Key - Syndicate details menu - Bring up the offerings page.

Escape key - For most menus this works the same as the B-button on the gamepad. This also shows some focus issues when dealing with the chat dialog and menus.

Also, Since I am playing your game, I have a few new bugs to add. This time it is things that do not work with a keyboard in the main menu...

New bugs:

 

• Arsenel Menu - Main Selection screen - Unable to browse the menu options using the keyboard. It should work exactly the same way as the gamepad... Use the arrow keys to select the item in the load out you want to modify, press the right arrow to move to the right menu list, and then select a submenu you wish to go to.  
• Arsenel Menu - Color Selector - I cannot change the active tab.
• Arsenel Menu - I am not able to change the load out mode using the keyboard.
• Arsenel Menu - Item selection screen - I am not able to navigate the existing items using the arrow keys. I should be able to select the items i have installed using this.
• Arsenel Menu - Gear selector ring - I am not able to select which gear item i am wishing to change out with the arrow keys.
• Arsenel Menu - Gear selector item list- I am not able to select which gear item i am wishing to place on the gear right using the arrow keys.
• Market - Item purchase pages - Unable to send items as a gift using the keyboard. I should be able to send an item to another tenno as a gift.
• List Scrolling Snaps to Mouse Cursor - When you try to scroll lists, the Menu likes to snap to the item you have highlighted with the mouse cursor even though you are navigating the list without using the mouse. This is reproduced in four different ways.
  • Vertical Scrolling Down- Highlight an item on the first row of the list, and try to scroll to the last row of the list. The list will generally snap to the first item of the list. This is shown well in the market under the bundles tab.
  • Vertical scrolling up -  This also is effected, but is no where near as exaggerated as when you are attempting to scroll down the list. You can test this the same way as scrolling down, except for you select the last item on the list.
  • Horizontal Scrolling Right- When trying to scroll to the right, the window snaps to the first row of the list extremely badly. It happens on the other rows, but this is the most exaggerated location showing the snap. At any rate, the best place to test this is to use the Mods menu when you have more than 60 different types of mods.
  • Horizontal Scrolling Left - This is also effected, and the best way to show this is to hover over an item towards the center of the list, and try to view the item to the right or left of this item. The list will like to scroll left or right by the page.

Relay User interface Bugs: These bugs are all existing, but it is in a different section of the menu.

• Dukat Kiosk - When you remove all the items from the pile to be sold using the keyboard, the interface does not respond to the navigation keys until the user either attempts to change tabs, or uses the mouse to select an item in the main list. ( Effects both Keyboard only controls and gamepads ).
• Dukat Kiosk - I am unable to sell items that are in the pile to be sold to the kiosk using the keyboard.
• Darvo Deal - I am unable to purchase the current deal using the keyboard. I am also unable to send this deal as a gift to another tenno using the keyboard.
• Cephalon Simaris Research - I am unable to view the entries one by one using the keyboard.
• Cephalon Simaris Offerings - The item listing he gives is not able to be navigated using the keyboard. It makes it really hard to redeem his offerings.
• Syndicate Offerings Pages (On Relays )- These are also effected by the inability to navigate.
• Syndicate Insignia Turn in - I did not test this using gamepad and keyboard since I do not have any Insignias to test with. However given how things are, This probably needs a full re-test.

 

Existing Bugs:  ( All these really have is a new way to reproduce them )

• Market Menu - Unable to change tabs with a keyboard. The working bind for this should the M and N keys. You can confirm this on the mod menu and foundry menus.

• Market - Featured page - Unable to navigate using the arrow keys. This should work the same as the other sections of this menu. ( Namely Warframes, weapons, equipment and bundles )

• Market - Item purchase pages - Unable to purchase items using the keyboard. I should be able to purchase an item using the enter key, and use the arrow keys to select the This should be the enter key.

• Syndicate Menu - Syndicate Selection screen - I am unable to proceed to the next menu using hte keyboard. This should work by using the arrow keys to select, and then press enter to go to the next page.

• Syndicate Menu - Syndicate Description Page - There is no UI Hints for the keyboard. The Y Key brings up the "Next Title" dialog.
• Syndicate Menu - Syndicate Description Page - There is no keyboard bind to bring up the "Offerings Page".
• Syndicate Menu - Syndicate Offerings Page - I am unable to navigate the individual items listed using the keyboard navigation keys. However, the M and N keys work great at changing tabs.
• Codex Menu - I am unable to change tabs using the M and N keys. I will not go into further bugs on this, since there is a complete tab on this.
• Incubator Menu - There is absolutely no User interface hints Mid menu. However there is a nice hint when you walk up to the terminal telling you to press "X" to open this menu.
• Incubator Menu - I an not able to change tabs using the M and N keys.
• Incubator Menu - Breeding - I cannot begin incubation using the keyboard only.
• Incubator Menu - Stasis - I am not able to Navigate the Stasis slots with the arrow keys.
• Incubator Menu - Stasis - I am not able to bring a kubrow out of stasis using just the keyboard. This ignores the A-Button.

 

I'll test the bugs on the relays in a few days when the void trader is there so I can go ahead and update my bug list for the keyboard to include the relay user interfaces.

 

edit: I added another bug notes under "new" bugs. These are listed in the gamepad list of bugs, but i figure this is probably also new bugs for DE to tackle.

 

edit 2: I added a few more that are reproduced using the keyboard on relays. I will add the actual void trader bugs if there are any when he appears sometime tomorrow.

Edited May 28, 2015 by dandeloreon