A Proposition For A Star Chart Redesign

[Drasiel]

Fair warning this will be long and not feature a TL;DR. It's just not possible for the topic as it touches on many different aspects of Warframe at the same time.

 

Things you can look forward to: Detailed explanations of why I changed certain things, so many spoiler tags (I clearly love spoiler tags in an unhealthy manner), crude hand drawn pictures with my notes on them.

 

So let's dive right in.

 

Getting our tools in order:

 

First things first we need to divide up what is star chart and what isn't. For example: Mercury is star chart, the void is not star chart. Right off the bat we ignore the Void, Derelict, and Archwing (Archwing is being separated from main progression for now as it is still clearly a near alpha system)

 

That leaves:

 

• Earth

• Mercury

• Venus

• Mars

• Jupiter

• Saturn

• Phobos

• Sedna

• Europa

• Uranus

• Neptune

• Pluto

• Ceres

 

Right away I stripped that down to the familiar 9 planets (although you could probably interchange them for some of the moons if you wanted to) And 3 Ship types that will become “Armadas”. Then I matched the planets up with tiles I thought fit them. I’m not well versed on the planets so It’s just a layman's view pls don’t hurt me astronomers.

 

• Mercury: Grineer Asteroid

• Venus: Grineer Shipyards

• Earth: Grineer Forest

• Mars: Grineer Outpost

• Jupiter: Gas City

• Saturn: Infested Ship

• Uranus: Grineer Undersea Labs

• Neptune: Corpus Outpost

• Pluto: Corpus Ice

• Grineer Armada: Grineer Galleon

• Corpus Armada: Corpus Ship

• Infested Armada: Infested Grineer/Corpus Ship(s)

 

 

Bosses: Locations and Drops.

 

Once I had locations I needed to rearrange bosses. So I did this according to already stated lore and as much as I can remember about their characters.

 

• Mercury: Grineer Asteroid - Vor

• Venus: Grineer Shipyards - Lech Kril

• Earth: Grineer Forest - Vay Hek

• Mars: Grineer Outpost - Kela de Thaym

• Jupiter: Gas City - Alad V

• Saturn: Infested Ship - Infested Jackal (we need at least 2 infested bosses with this change)

• Uranus: Grineer Undersea Labs - Tyl Regor

• Neptune: Corpus Outpost - Raptor

• Pluto: Corpus Ice - Ambulas

• Grineer Armada: Grineer Galleon - Sargus Ruk

• Corpus Armada: Corpus Ship - Nef Anyo

• Infested Armada: Infested Grineer/Corpus Ship(s) - Infested Alad V

 

 I no longer had as many locations to work with nor did I have as many corpus locations compared to grineer. Ultimately I had one leftover Corpus boss.

 

The solution is to create invasion bosses for the Corpus and Grineer. We already have this with Phorrid for infested invasions, and it’s a nice mission mutator sometimes. I felt this would be good for the Grineer and Corpus as well. When an invasion spawns on an assassinate node you get a Corpus VS Grineer Assassinate. Because the invasion forces you to pick a side the boss will drop warframe pieces but the node reward will be the warframe blueprint (blueprint is removed from market)

 

Corpus Invasion Boss: Hyena Pack. The hyena pack is designed to hunt down enemies, what better place for them than an invasion?

 

Grineer Invasion Boss: Create a new Grineer.

 

Now boss drops had to be redistributed amongst the new list. I’ve tried to match them with the boss that makes sense for me:

 

• Mercury: Grineer Asteroid - Vor - Seer, chronus

• Venus: Grineer Shipyards - Lech Kril - Frost, Twin Gremlins

• Earth: Grineer Forest - Vay Hek - Trinity

• Mars: Grineer Outpost - Kela de Thaym - Ash, Miter

• Jupiter: Gas City - Alad V - Valkyr

• Saturn: Infested Ship - Infested Jackal - Saryn 

• Uranus: Grineer Undersea Labs - Tyl Regor - Excalibur

• Neptune: Corpus Outpost - Raptor - Nova

• Pluto: Corpus Ice - Ambulas - Rhino

• Grineer Armada: Grineer Galleon - Sargus Ruk - Ember

• Corpus Armada: Corpus Ship - Nef Anyo - Loki

• Infested Armada: Infested Grineer/Corpus Ship(s) - Infested Alad V - Mesa

• Corpus Invasion Boss: Hyena Pack - Mag

• Grineer Invasion Boss: Create a new Grineer - Hydroid

• Infested Invasion Boss: Phorrid - Nyx
•  

 

 

New Node Type: Armadas

 

The last thing I have to talk about before moving on to star chart layout is the “Armadas”. Armadas are only unlocked after defeating every boss on the star chart. They appear as a ship of their faction (infested/grineer/corpus) And orbit one planet every day. They take on the resources and the planet tileset, while also using the faction specific ship tileset for some missions. Every 24 hours they change planets at random, with no armadas being able to share a planet. 

 

The enemies in Armada missions would be level 30-50, and would spawn enemy types corresponding to the planet they are orbiting. The Armada would have one of every mission node:

 

• Assassinate

• Capture

• Deception

• Exterminate

• Rescue

• Sabotage

• Spy

• Defense

• Excavation

• Hijack

• Interception

• Mobile Defense

• Survival

 

What this does is allow “endgame” players to still enjoy all of the tilesets on the main map at an enemy difficulty appropriate to their skill. While also giving randomisation that is within acceptable limits because you aren’t going to miss a mission you want to play. It should also gives endgame players a place to group up more easily as it should have a higher population of use.

Ultimately this turns the star chart into “story mode” and Armadas are what you do once you are through the star chart.

 

I imagine clicking on an armada in the star chart brings up a separate window like the invasions do displaying the available missions.

 

 

 

New Layout: Star Chart Overview

 

Hand drawn notes

 

Us sitting in the position of the sun with the planets around us in a ring as always felt really off to me. What I propose is instead of projecting the star chart down, we poject it up over the windows and front end of the liset so our tenno looks up at it. The liset should also dim a bit when this happens.

 

Instead of a ring of planets it turns back into a solar ring with the planets orbiting the sun. We are looking at this form a completely top down perspective now, so planets getting lost behind the sun is a thing of the past.

 

They rotate on their own until you mouse over a planet. Once moused over the star chart stops moving, the planet becomes larger, and displays the planet name; enemy level; resources, and an image of the tileset.

 

This star chart still has the squad square in the top right corner, the “Quick mission” bar in the top left corner, and one new addition along the bottom (or it could go along the side) the Coordinate bar.

 

The coordinate bar contains our Void keys, Derelict Keys, Miscellaneous keys/Archwing, and Relay coordinates. It operates in the same visual fashion as the “Quick mission” Bar. This bar could be easily introduced via quests. Lotus sends us a message and takes us through the process of what each of these things are. In order to go to higher level relays you would need to build the coordinate key that’s blueprint is rewarded upon reaching the required mastery rank.

 

 

New Layout: Planet View

 

Hand drawn notes

 

 

This is somewhat of a reversion to star chart 2.0. You see a big picture of the planet, there is a spacey computer window partially on it showing how the tileset looks and then a connecting line that directs you to the node layout. The name of the planet is above the planet, the resource box is below it. Mousing over a node gives you the same information it does now.

 

I split the mission nodes up into two categories: Standard nodes; which are easily completed solo, and Multiplayer focused nodes; which are much harder for solo players to complete.

 

Standard Nodes:

 

• Assassinate

• Capture

• Deception

• Exterminate

• Rescue

• Sabotage

• Spy

 

 

Multiplayer Focused Nodes:

 

• Defense

• Excavation

• Hijack

• Interception

• Mobile Defense

• Survival

 

 

Every planet is divided into large or small of size. Small planets have 4 nodes from the standard list leading to 1 boss node and 2 nodes from the multiplayer focused list branching off the main path. Large planets have 6 nodes leading to 1 boss and 4 nodes from the multiplayer focused list branching off the main path.

 

If we go planet size then we end up with  3 Large planets (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus) and 6 small planets. This reduces star chart “story” progression down to 75 nodes. If you just want to do pure half and half at 5 large and 5 small it reduces the star chart “story” progression down to 90 nodes instead.

 

This older node layout will allow us to bring back the drag and navigate ability, but I have a twist for that. ;)

 

 

New Layout: Solar Rails and Solar Rail View.

 

Hand drawn notes

 

Instead of planets just connecting by node we are going to throw something interesting into the mix: The Solar Rails. How do we travel between planets? How do we get places in the blink of an eye? Solar Rails baby. 

 

The transition between each planet becomes a solar rail accessible from the boss node. This is why we need coordinates from the boss to move on. This is why the planets can connect in whichever manner DE deems appropriate. Because tunneling through space doesn’t have to make sense. :)

 

When you drag your viewpoint onto a solar rail from in the planet view you see a spherical image of a darkened section of space. You can then drag past this “dark sector” and onto the next planet in sequence from that solar rail.

 

That’s right, I just incorporated darksectors into the star chart logically. BOOM. The ancient rails, won’t take us to darksectors, they can only hint at their existence, but new rails that say a clan or alliance built can open up this darksector node (that could even have additional nodes branch off of it in the future). One could even have different rails to build for different costs to get different missions.

 

“But Dras….” I hear you say in a accent from the deep south “This is going to be awkward as hell to navigate and look around at the darksectors. Not to mention see the connectivity progression as a whole with the overview and planet view!”

 

To which I reply “hush my southern darlings, I have a solution.”

 

Enter the Solar Rail View. Accessible by zooming in on the Star Chart Overview (using arrow keys or up scroll), or clicking on the sun, or zooming out while in the planet view (by using arrow keys or down scroll). In this view the solar system is seen in a downward ranging spiral With the sun at the top. Imagine the planets arranged like a DNA spiral. The whole thing rotates like a kid’s mobile. 

 

The Solar Rail View shows lines that denote the solar rail paths. Dark paths you don’t have coordinates to yet. Lit paths you have coordinates to. It also shows a single node on each solar rail path to denote darksectors. Dark node means there is no clan/alliance rail to reach the darksector. Lit node means there is a clan/alliance rail to reach the darksector.

 

clicking on a planet or darksector node immediately brings you that planet view or the darksector node (regardless of if there is an active node).

 

 

Final Thoughts:

 

Armadas:

 

These should allow high end players to revisit old tiles, face appropriate level enemies, and lay on the same maps as one another. Their Location refreshes daily so different locations and resources are available and the system stays fresh. 

 

Solar Rail Connectivity:

 

By connecting planets via solar rails we can completely ignore physical location of planets when making a path between them. The rails also offer the paths to darksectors uncluttering the planet nodes.

 

Invasion Assassinations:

 

We’re going to run bosses multiple times anyway. This just gives some new flavour to the star chart like phorid manifestations.

 

Founder Nodes:

 

The shrinking of the star chart will cause a loss of founder nodes. Instead of just piling them onto other nodes I suggest: Tenno Graffiti, founders names written in Tennoscript found within the mission tilesets themselves. Some players will hate this and some will love it. Perhaps founders whose nodes get removed could be contacted and asked if they want to be put on another node or into a mission as Tenno Graffiti. If you get no response shove them onto a different node.

 

Invasions, Nightmare, Alerts, Syndicate, and Crossfire:

 

These occurrences remain as they are, as they offer a dynamic mutation for existing nodes on the star chart, with one addition: They can spawn on Armada nodes.

 

Resources:

I didn’t touch on resource distribution at all because that is a system that needs to be reworked from the ground up once planets have a designated order. Otherwise we will end up with a mess where resources with low performance (“beginner weapons”) require resources new players just can’t get too.

 

 

If you made it this far, Thank you for taking the time read it. Let me know if this horrible or not :D

 

 

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Maybe we should let DE do their thing before we start making ideas for the Star Chart.

Edited June 8, 2015 by (XB1)A Frikn Grizzly

[Drasiel]

Maybe we should let DE do their thing before we start making ideas for the Star Chart.

 

Why? They've already stated It's in the works and that as it stands they are not sure what they are going do. I feel it's perfectly appropriate to offer suggestions on a star chart one would like to see at this point.

 

Should people have never posted suggestions on a UI revision back when we were still on the first one? Should people not post fan concept frames and misson types?

 

If you feel this doesn't deserve to fit in general feedback I can understand that, perhaps it should have gone in fan concepts. However the ideas expressed are just as valid as any other fan concept.

[(PSN)Fac3kick3r_lolz]

I genuinely love this. I feel the addition of Armadas can really help the feeling that the game is alive in some way.

 

Take my +1

[DSpite]

Why? They've already stated It's in the works and that as it stands they are not sure what they are going do. I feel it's perfectly appropriate to offer suggestions on a star chart one would like to see at this point.

 

Should people have never posted suggestions on a UI revision back when we were still on the first one? Should people not post fan concept frames and misson types?

 

If you feel this doesn't deserve to fit in general feedback I can understand that, perhaps it should have gone in fan concepts. However the ideas expressed are just as valid as any other fan concept.

 

Feedback is generally "input" that is designed to generate changes to an existing system.

 

You are basically assuming that the system DE is STILL working on will actually have elements that your OP can actually use. Just because DE stated the new Star Map is "work in progress" does not mean "it's still so full of gaps that anything players suggest will fit right in".

 

For all we know, the new system is totally incompatible with your ideas, that's why "we should wait" is a more logical path to take.

[MagPrime]

Feedback is generally "input" that is designed to generate changes to an existing system.

 

You are basically assuming that the system DE is STILL working on will actually have elements that your OP can actually use. Just because DE stated the new Star Map is "work in progress" does not mean "it's still so full of gaps that anything players suggest will fit right in".

 

For all we know, the new system is totally incompatible with your ideas, that's why "we should wait" is a more logical path to take.

But this is a beta game, offering suggestions on proposed changes is what we're supposed to do as beta testers.

[DSpite]

But this is a beta game, offering suggestions on proposed changes is what we're supposed to do as beta testers.

 

Those were not "suggestions". Those were "here is an entire model system I have designed".

 

You can't be a "beta tester" unless there is something ALREADY to test. It's why you can't give feedback on something where there is nothing to feed-back on.

[Ronyn]

OH the irony of going into a thread, not actually providing feedback on the proposal, and telling the OP he is giving feedback incorrectly....

lol

 

......

 

.......

1: What makes you guys feel like you get to tell people how to give feedback? Do you even know how the DEV's view these kinds of breakdowns? do you?

2: We all have experienced the current solar chart so we have ample information to give proposals on what we would like to see it turn into.

3: In a recent hot topic DE asked us-

The proposed Solar Map rework is a relatively blank slate, with the goal of streamlining and optimizing missions nodes. If you’re fearful of the proposed changes, what would you like to see change, if anything? Do you like having an abundance of nodes of each mission type? Do you think condensing nodes will create a more unified play experience? Do you think condensing nodes will make finding groups easier? If you were to create a more dynamic Solar Map with varying mission types and modifiers, how would you do it? What nodes or aspects of the Solar Map do you think are redundant, if any? 

 

-which means a full expressions of ones preferences are an appropriate response.

 

So, respectfully, just stop whatever it is you think you are doing.

Stay on topic. 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ronyn

[PHOBIE]

It seems hard to get everything squeezed into an overview my attention span can handle. There are surely some interesting approaches.

Regarding some posts here; DE did in fact ask for feedback on chart. See livestream posts and Drew post quoted I would guess. So thanks for going to the effort Drasiel.

Edited June 8, 2015 by PHOBIE

[MagPrime]

Those were not "suggestions". Those were "here is an entire model system I have designed".

 

You can't be a "beta tester" unless there is something ALREADY to test. It's why you can't give feedback on something where there is nothing to feed-back on.

So you feel this would be better suited to the Fan Concepts sub-forum?

 

And while it is true we can't give feedback on something we haven't tested, we can give feedback on the idea, which is what is happening here.

[Drasiel]

Feedback is generally "input" that is designed to generate changes to an existing system.

 

You are basically assuming that the system DE is STILL working on will actually have elements that your OP can actually use. Just because DE stated the new Star Map is "work in progress" does not mean "it's still so full of gaps that anything players suggest will fit right in".

 

For all we know, the new system is totally incompatible with your ideas, that's why "we should wait" is a more logical path to take.

 

uhm, the star chart does exist. In fact we are technically on star chart 3.0 right now (unless there was a different star chart pre u7). Also tons of feedback on Warframe powers, weapons and UI's have been complete reworks provided by players. If nothing else it supplies an idea of what the players would like to see.

 

Besides Drew asked the community what we would like to see in a new star chart in the hot topics just yesterday. "We should wait" would mean not giving the Dev's any information regarding what we want in a star chart. This isn't like a modified Warframe power where we need to test it out in game first. This is like when a new warframe is made and people are asked to suggest power ideas.

 

It seems hard to get everything squeezed into an overview my attention span can handle. There are surely some interesting approaches.

Regarding some posts here; DE did in fact ask for feedback on chart. See livestream posts and Drew post quoted I would guess. So thanks for going to the effort Drasiel.

 

Thank you, and you're welcome :)

[Ve1indian]

I like the thought of having separate story progression nodes that increase in levels between planets, with every planet having endgame level missions of each type. Worst parts about the current starchart is the constant mission type repeats, non-exsistent mission types on certain planets, and lack of tileset variety for endgame. the ability to scale the endgame planet missions between enemy levels of 30-50 before starting (with the exception of endless modes [since they'd scale as time went by anyway]) would be a nice addition too.

 

+1

[Fiiiinnn]

This is a really awesome idea.

 

+1

 

 

I think it would be really cool to have groups of corpus and grineer ships fly around in real time in mass clusters of ships in between planets, or have space battles occurring over planets with invasions.

 

I think a lot of little things could be added to make the galaxy seem more alive and connected. I think your idea will allow simpler implementation of missions that include both Archwing and standard.

 

Good stuff man. I hope someone sees this.

[neKroMancer]

Lovely proposal, the armada idea is especially good for endgame.

TBH, I like this kind of well-made idea that can be implemented in the game without breaking it. This is what the game need from playerbase, creativity and boldness, not meekly waiting for DE to implements something and just test it.

[Drasiel]

Thanks for all the positive remarks guys :)

 

Is there anything you guys think should be added to this?

 

Should Archwing nodes be included in Armadas currently, or should they remain as separate coordinates?

 

Should Archwing function more like the Void and less like the star chart ultimately? Or would that limit it's potential?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Thanks for all the positive remarks guys :)

 

Is there anything you guys think should be added to this?

 

Should Archwing nodes be included in Armadas currently, or should they remain as separate coordinates?

 

Should Archwing function more like the Void and less like the star chart ultimately? Or would that limit it's potential?

I'd suggest combined missions, to help further reduce node counts and, as a bonus, increase variety. Certain missions (Earth sabotage, for example) combine two or more mission types to form a third. This should happen more (although it should be stated clearly). By the final planets, nearly every non-endless mission should be a combined one. Examples of combined missions would be MD/Spy (two vaults followed by a MD objective), Capture/Sabotage (capture the target to gain access to the engine room), or Capture/ MD (1 target, two terminals, do them in whatever order you want or in tandem). They would be different for each planet, but they wouldnt be random, and would be clearly defined on the map as containing multiple objectives.

[neKroMancer]

Thanks for all the positive remarks guys :)

 

Is there anything you guys think should be added to this?

 

Should Archwing nodes be included in Armadas currently, or should they remain as separate coordinates?

 

Should Archwing function more like the Void and less like the star chart ultimately? Or would that limit it's potential?

 

Based from the teased sharkwing, archwing could be combined with other mission types in certain section (imagine zooming around trying to get into the ship in the Armada before entering it and exterminate everyone on board like the Archwing trailer).

[Drasiel]

I'd suggest combined missions, to help further reduce node counts and, as a bonus, increase variety. Certain missions (Earth sabotage, for example) combine two or more mission types to form a third. This should happen more (although it should be stated clearly). By the final planets, nearly every non-endless mission should be a combined one. Examples of combined missions would be MD/Spy (two vaults followed by a MD objective), Capture/Sabotage (capture the target to gain access to the engine room), or Capture/ MD (1 target, two terminals, do them in whatever order you want or in tandem). They would be different for each planet, but they wouldnt be random, and would be clearly defined on the map as containing multiple objectives.

 

This could be really interesting. I think the first two planets would need to have just the single versions though so that players could become comfortable with the mission types first.

 

Alternatively this could be what alerts become or a seperate mission modifier like nightmare is.

 

 

Based from the teased sharkwing, archwing could be combined with other mission types in certain section (imagine zooming around trying to get into the ship in the Armada before entering it and exterminate everyone on board like the Archwing trailer).

 

Definitely something to look forward to, but I think we are a ways away from this kind of integration. I mean right now Archwing is a completely optional style of play. If it were to be added into basic progression the Archwing quest alone would have to become required to progress past a certain planet. Prior to that kind of integration Archwing Alerts could definately mix this kind of play style in.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

This could be really interesting. I think the first two planets would need to have just the single versions though so that players could become comfortable with the mission types first.

Alternatively this could be what alerts become or a seperate mission modifier like nightmare is.

I actually first wrote that these changes would only begin to happen around Mars/Saturn. Agreed there.

I don't think this should be what alerts or nightmares become, though. The alert system needs work, for sure, but I'd rather it not come at the expense of something that could help reduce monotony on the chart in general. As for nightmares, you'd be inadvertently doubling the nodes without actually reducing monotony for new players, so I'd say no to that.

Edited June 11, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[Drasiel]

I actually first wrote that these changes would only begin to happen around Mars/Saturn. Agreed there.

I don't think this should be what alerts or nightmares become, though. The alert system needs work, for sure, but I'd rather it not come at the expense of something that could help reduce monotony on the chart in general. As for nightmares, you'd be inadvertently doubling the nodes without actually reducing monotony for new players, so I'd say no to that.

 

I actually meant as a completely separate mutator from nightmare or alerts. So what we have for mission mutators would be: Syndicate missions, Nightmare, Invasions, Alerts, Multi-stage missions.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I actually meant as a completely separate mutator from nightmare or alerts. So what we have for mission mutators would be: Syndicate missions, Nightmare, Invasions, Alerts, Multi-stage missions.

I know. What I'm saying is that this defeats the purpose of the suggestion. You wouldn't be reducing monotony and repetition on the chart, at least not for first time players, and you wouldn't be consolidating nodes, as that would effectively increase them and pull apart players.

I wouldn't be opposed to Invasions or alerts or any other type having the possibility of being multi stage (especially Invasions--these should always be so). But it's wasted potential at best and counterproductive at worst to confine them to that, or to add a new modifier just for them.

[Drasiel]

I know. What I'm saying is that this defeats the purpose of the suggestion. You wouldn't be reducing monotony and repetition on the chart, at least not for first time players, and you wouldn't be consolidating nodes, as that would effectively increase them and pull apart players.

I wouldn't be opposed to Invasions or alerts or any other type having the possibility of being multi stage (especially Invasions--these should always be so). But it's wasted potential at best and counterproductive at worst to confine them to that, or to add a new modifier just for them.

 

 

You make a good point, if the goal is to reduce nodes and clutter adding this as a separate mutator would just add more clutter. having alerts/nightmare/invasions spawn as this type could be fun though.

 

So if this becomes part of the main progression path of nodes (keeping in mind the solo players) We should probably try to keep pairings of/with multiplayer focused nodes off of the main progression path. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You make a good point, if the goal is to reduce nodes and clutter adding this as a separate mutator would just add more clutter. having alerts/nightmare/invasions spawn as this type could be fun though.

So if this becomes part of the main progression path of nodes (keeping in mind the solo players) We should probably try to keep pairings of/with multiplayer focused nodes off of the main progression path.

I would probably say that defense/survival/interception should rarely be paired with other things. When they are, they should be reduced in difficulty/number of things the player must do since they're combined with other things. Similarly, Spy and Rescue would also have softer fail conditions, especially at low-mid levels. Edited June 12, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered