[Seriously how is stofler defence, on lua still bugged ?]

its been months, maybe even years, since this one mission type on lua has been bugged like this. To others who are not aware of this issue and don't know what the bug is, let me explain. It is when during certain point during the waves in defence, the enemies randomly stop spawning for some reason, this causes the mission to come to a halt making it incompletable.

Sometimes it is because an enemy gets stuck and there is usually a waypoint to said stuck enemy, so you can find and kill it, so usually this isn't a problem. However more often than not, there seems to be an issue which mostly happens after wave 10, where it seems enemies simply do not spawn or i think somehow are stuck without having a marker, making them impossible to find.

This simple tiny bug has become so damn frustrating to someone like me who runs stofler regularly for levelling weapons and warframes as it has to others. Having to lose all your exp, rewards and time put into the mission is one way to piss off your players thats for sure. This is a well known bug that has been on this tileset with this mission type for a while now. How has it not been identified fixed yet ? It can very easily be replicated, yet there seems to be no planned fixes or acknowledgement of said glitch. 

 

[[SPOILER] CONFIRMED Progression stopper found (and reproducable)]

So after I beat the sentients by the burning tree where ballas spawns nothing happens, 3 times I have restarted the quests and it bugs every time after I kill the sentients,

 

[Infinite Load Screen]

yeah I already figured it out myself, thanks anyway for the help. The rollback indeed fixed my problem

[Infinite Load Screen]

On 2018-05-17 at 1:33 PM, Steakpeppers said:

Alright, I tried it by myself and rolled back to previous version of Windows 10 I had, and I just tested for like 30 minutes, it now works like a charm. No texture bug, no infinite loading screen, item pictures are back (yah !). It will require further testing this evening, but honestly I think this is going pretty well. Before I rolled the Windows update back, I couldn't litteraly play warframe for more than 2-3 missions before having to alt+f4 it. And a lot of times I had to launch a mission not even twice but three times in a row to actually get in... 

Right now, no problem with this rollback. Warframe seems ok. My PC too. If this totally works out, I'm just going to wait for a fix coming from Windows or Warframe. Until then, this version will be just fine !

I'll edit this later in the evening, when I will be done testing all this.

Edit : played the game a couple hours, definitely better. Not a single texture/infinite loading/missing picture bug. I highly recommand anyone experiencing those bugs to rollback

Hmm I am having this exact issue after the windows update, I knew I should not have updated windows. Damn it Microsoft always breaks something in their updates. Just a question but how would one roll back an update on w10 ?

[Bugged loading screen]

I also seem to be having this issue

[Mission loading screen]

Been having the same problem with my game too recently, the game will work fine for a random period of time, then on extract the game will get stuck in an infinite load screen and the last mission results. There is no way to fix this it seems other than alt tabbing/ alf f4 and exiting the game and rebooting it.  It also happens when entering a mission at random intervals.  I select a mission and boom infinite load screen, it doesn't matter what mission or game mode it will still go through the infinite load screen, anything that causes a load screen really .

I tried installing newer drivers, rebooting the game and even restarting my PC and nothing seems to fix it.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

48 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

I recommend Consulting your local physician to see whether or not you have caught tinnitus.

Also that fun fact made me want to slap you, your exactly the kind of player to benefit the most from what I suggested with being able to go past the rest your team and get rewarded more heavily for doing so.

Yet this fool is against scaling for some reason, when quite clearly it would benefit his playstyle. Again, from what logic is he arguing from ? There is no evidence that rewards scaling will have an inherently negative effect  on the game. It is pretty much a net gain, so again the opposition to this seems to be nothing but vapid reasoning.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

It's pretty sad when you have to resort to internet logical fallacy memes as a counter. That's no skill at all. It doesn't make you look smart. It was cool and witty maybe 10 years ago on the internet, but it's not impressive anymore. You could literally go though any post and scream "logical fallacy" "strawman" "slippery slope" without saying anything at all. It's lame and cliche

You do realise the term "logical fallacy" existed way before the internet right ? It is not a meme, the internet merely helped document their uses and explained what they mean, not create them. It is debate knowledge 101 at this point, if you knew what you were actually talking about you would know this, not to mention this very paragraph is a fallacy in of itself, the fallacy fallacy. You have no grounds to stand on you have not made a alternative suggestion nor have you given real reasons on why scaling shouldn't exist , you're arguments have been littered with nothing but logical fallacy and the only reason for your opposition, coming from selfish intentions it seems.

I and others have complete deconstructed these arguments and debunked them, so why are you still here ? From the looks of it you are here to do nothing more than hinder the discussion and create circular arguments that get us nowhere. Your place here has contributed nothing towards the reasoning of why balanced scaling cannot exist. 

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

Do u think i agaisnt get a shjt load of kuva to roll the rivens i like? Heck no but just slapping scaling reward as a sollution for end of be all is not ok, if u play the game long enough u will see how bad scaling can be either it be enemies or reward. Reward people with good for challenging content yes! but u reward people for playing to the Extreme knowing that DE DONT WANT US TO STAY long is just wrong on the base of it and if u say "when did DE dont want us to do long surival?" just google WF scaling, there are tons and tons of broken scaling mechanic + 1 shotting either enemies or you not to mention bug spawning enemies + cells scale number of mobs can be spawn + the risk of the host disconnect when u take all that into account u think survival for long is a part of WF core gameplay right now? ( i mean we all have match that host disconnect and someway or another we lost stuff imo )

Also the whole edit "strawman", Opinion to me have value either it be wrong nor right, opinion is opinion, i dont catagorize them, i choose to listen to them even if it a waste of time, catagorize them into thing like "strawman" is just petty perspective, so i just gonna mememify it when ever i encounter u in any thread from now on @DeMonkey

I am sorry but there has never been a downside to rewards scaling in warframe in fact, besides the fissures I don't  think we have any kind of true scaling rewards, so you have no evidence to back the claim that scaling rewards are inherently negative. Reward scaling and enemy scaling are 2 different things, claiming scaling rewards will be inherently negative just because of the exponential growth of enemy armour late game is yet another logical fallacy called, composition/division. It is flawed reasoning as just because something has a relation to something else does not mean it is the same or equivalent to it.

As for trying to downplay our rebuttals and counter arguments, you have used yet another logical fallacy, you never learn do you ? If you do not want us to call you out on the flaws within your argument, do not use them , it is as simple as that. You need to realise that by using them as a crutch it makes your arguments look weak and invalid, it is why we can deconstruct these poorly argued points so easily.

You are using the same flawed arguments littered with fallcies as @Hypernaut1

10 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

i do also want it change to what do u think i create this thread for? catering to DE that 200 is enough? 200 is not enough for sure but reward scaling with no rooftop just to reward for people have a lot of time vs the whole avg player base? that absurd and remember we DONT have the number but DE does, all we have is idea and hope DE gonna test it out and accept it the end. They listen but how many voices we have? a lot it take time and sugguestons, something like endless reward scaling with the current scaling mechanic WF have right now is not fun nor challenging, it just a fight of number for the most "efficent" way to get "as many kuva as u can" to put in "the slot machine" for more than 200 times. Keep in mind as i explain before if it scale endlessly u gonna see people go for 3-4hr + even 24hrs just to make tons and tons of kuva and then throw in ur face, DE face, player base face.

and please read ALL his post, most of his post focus on why endless should scale with no rooftop

Who said we want no cap to scaling ? I and others quite literally multiple times said, we want scaling to be balanced and to eventually cap off or to use the fissure system instead , what you have done here is you guessed it, misrepresented our arguments and created a strawman. In other words arguing against points we did not make, creating a false narrative in order to defeat our arguments. If you weren't using this straw man you should theoretically agree with us as we too do not want scaling to go on infinitely.

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

Point taken but please next time try to post something that related to the topic disscuse and dont just "arguing" with other at the same time dont point out where they wrong like i been trying to do for so long. So this also mean @fluffysnowcap my "strawman" then, taking my quotes sometimes out of context and shove words into my mouth like i want a "hard-cap" on enemies and i dont want to fight "hard" enemies, k then that was refreshing

He did not take you post out of context, nor is his claims false. You and @Hypernaut1 claim to not want scaling, yet have given no valid arguments and criticism as to why it will have negative effects on the game. From your words and actions what else are we supposed to think ? It doesn't matter if you claim to not want or be that thing,  if your words and actions are in complete opposite to what you claim. 

You guys do not want scaling rewards, you either want the same rewards or more than the current iteration of kuva survival, if the later, you want a mode which could possibly surpass kuva siphons rewards and while still only putting in 20 minutes. From the looks of it you guys are either lazy, don't want to fight harder enemies and are in opposition to us merely due to selfish reasoning it seems. So far you guys have not proved us otherwise, if you do not want to appear this way come up with better arguments and  especially stop using such an abundance of logical fallacies, this part is worst and makes the rest of your argument look weak. A house cannot be built on a weak foundation.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 hour ago, Tyrian3k said:

The whole point of scaling rewards is to give players a challenge and reward them for overcoming it, similar to how good groups can do 3-4 hydrolysts per night while others just do one. Should we limit those as well, so people with higher skill levels can't outdo the casual player?

I don't like the idea of loot communism where no one can receive a better reward for putting more effort in.

Exactly my problem, we'll end up like Destiny 2 quests and missions if this goes on, we'll have all of these missions yet none of them are worthwhile and everyone gets the same reward. There is no incentive anymore, no goal to work towards and no sense of achievement. 

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 minute ago, fluffysnowcap said:

If you want i can edit my monster post to include a new spoiler tab containing the Kuva per minute brakedown of the void style one.

 

I do love to tease 

thanks, would be nice to try and understand that graph more easily haha

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

This post has me rock solid, that's not fair when I'm at work trying to earn a living. 

Personally I'd love to see fissure scaling applied to all endless modes and subsequently affecting Kuva, Cryotic and resource drops.

you and me too buddy

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

10 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Quote me one person asking for AABC to be changed instead of the secondary and treasury drops, we asked a more rewarding continuation instead of a complete replacement of the previous 20 minutes. as far as I can tell no one has asked for a D drop to be added let a lone E through to G

 

If i was a smart man i would of worked out how to do Compound interest\integers the short way, instead of the long and slow way.

 At least you took the time to actually do the maths to prove your point, more of a philosophy and debate guy myself so I can argue my points across as a laymen rather well, as to technical data and exact details you can count me out.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

11 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

What we see here is a Argument from fallacy or also known as a fallacy fallacy, This line of argument will go no where. What we should do is try to argue from good faith and be open to others.

 

The only scaling that has ever been implemented was back in update 19 and was a olive branch to the players that use to do a 4 hour run of a single T(1,2,3,4) Void Key.

The main arguments for scaling is for the secondary and tertiary rewards, the things we need a tone of like Endo, Polymer Bundle and Plastids, or for the kuva itself to scale, hence the near consensus for one of two models.

1. Void fissure style scaling added to all endless missions. Example below.

  Hide contents

Reward Intervals

The reward intervals per mission type are as followed:

• Defense: 5 waves
• Interception: 1 round
• Survival: 5 minutes
• Excavation: 200 Cryotic

Bonuses per Interval

• Every reward interval, you get a predetermined booster. These boosters stack the longer you stay and are capped at double.

1. The first interval: 1.25x Affinity.
2. The second interval: 1.25x Credits Booster. (affects credit cashes)
3. The third interval: 1.25x Resources Booster. (effects missions resources IE, Kuva and Cryotic as well as rewards)
4. The fourth interval: 1.25x Resource Drop Rate.
5. The fifth interval: This one will be the largest change replacing the random Exceptional Relic With a planets appropriate rare resource (Affected by Resources Boosters)
6. The sixth interval: 1.5x Affinity (replaces first).
7. The seventh interval: 1.5x Credits (replaces second).
8. The eighth interval: 1.5x Resources (replaces third).
9. The ninth interval: 1.5x Resource Drop Rate (replaces fourth).
10. The tenth interval: a planets appropriate rare resource (Same amount as the first time to prevent runaway scaling, Affected by Resources Boosters)

• Boosters continue to increase every set of intervals and are capped at double (2x). After the nineteenthinterval, all boosters will have reached their cap.

2. Increasing by a fixed amount per Life support tower, balanced so for the first 20 minutes is is between Kuva siphons and floods; however past 40 minutes it should have the greatest Kuva to time investment you can achieve them game. All scaling capping at 1 hour.

  Hide contents

Link to the source.

Current Kuva per minute.

Flood's 243.2, Siphon's 130.3 Kuva Suvival 128

Ideally Kuva Survival should give approximately 190 Kuva per minute for the first 20 minutes, and approximately 250 Kuva per minute for the first 40 minutes.

There are 13.3 Life support towers in 20 minutes That's one every 90 seconds, not including the one that spawns at the very beginning.

so we need scaling that works per tower to create an out come of 190 ish kuva per minute.

OH god i need to work out 14(X+(YxN))÷20=190   wish i remembered how to do Compound interest\integers

Examples. X is the Life support towers and Y is the scaling per tower

20 minutes

X=200 and Y=10   |   X=200 and Y=15   |   X=200 and Y=20  |   X=200 and Y=25  |

14(X+(YxN))÷20=   |   14(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 14(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 14(X+(YxN))÷20=     |

         185.3               |             218.75           |             231               |           253.75              | Kuva per minutes

         3710              |           4375             |            4620            |           5075              | Total Kuva

 

40 minutes

X=200 and Y=10   |   X=200 and Y=15   |   X=200 and Y=20  |   X=200 and Y=25  |

28(X+(YxN))÷20=   |   28(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 28(X+(YxN))÷20=   | 28(X+(YxN))÷20=     |

         234.5               |            281.75            |          320                  |            376.25             | Kuva per minutes

         9380             |            11270           |           12800           |           15050             | Total Kuva

  Reveal hidden contents

My personal opinion of the two possibilities is that Void fissure style scaling to all endless will be more fitting to the game as a whole. Compared to a fixed percentage or integer increase that will suffer from the possibility of runaway scaling, or initial rewards that are completely underwhelming.

Smart man, I see you also saw the fallacies within that argument, you're actually giving possibilities and solutions. Rather than arguing against the very idea of scaling itself, glad to see we're actually getting somewhere.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

yes

whatever that means lol, I'll take that as a nod of understanding I guess

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 minute ago, --Q--Phanini said:

Totally agree, scaling brings nothing but more kuva, which we all wanted in the first place. I don't understand the problems these people are bringing up, since if you look at it, there's really only 2 "negatives" to an overwhelming amount of positives.

For sure, the positives far outweigh any slight negatives with it, most of the negatives I have seen brought up are strawmen anyway. Like " oversaturation" or "the system will be too overpowered"

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

No one ever suggested gating specific rewards behind log runs. If you want to casually farm Kuva in an endless missions with scaling rewards, you are free to do so. There is no reason to have a such a selfish mindset about rewards in spite of the different kinds of players. 

If you queue up for Pubs, the mission length always differs. Likewise, solo extraction fixes you "issue" that doesn't really exist in the first place.

I believe Kuva Endless should scale with rewards to do the following:

1) Give players incentives and diversity with how they want to farm at their pace. This includes super hardcore players like myself, and also more casual players within the Riven/Kuva system.

2) Promoting meaningful content that actually contests veteran gear with Rivens and Arcanes, something we have yet to see.

3) Set precedent for awfully designed game modes such as Excavation, Defection, Infested Salvage, and future content similar to this (DE loves copying other game modes, just look at Kuva survival).

I don't see how scaling Kuva can be a bad thing except for the people who want to be anti for the sake of it.

Yep exactly all the points I have been making in this discussion, this is why i cannot understand what seems to be a selfish mindset some of these players have.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

purely opinion. Like i said, if scaling endless past 20 minutes was such a genius idea, endless wouldn't loop hard at 20. You lack perspective if you think 20 minutes in one mission is lazy. With that said...im done. As it seems like the best way to get your point across is go on off-topic soliloquies about what kind of argument you think im making.  

all in all its up to DE to decide. If they read the forums, they hear the "scale rewards" vocal side and they've heard the player argument against scaling rewards. It's not one united voice for scaling rewards. We don't ALL want scaling. They can do with that info as they wish. I'll be playing the game either way.

"Off-topic soliloquies" eh ? That is your rebuttal to my argument, this is a deflection you're not addressing the points made, but avoiding them. In other words you are running away, I doubt you even read all of it. You only addressed one of my points , the topic of the way DE Desigined endless modes, which I already addressed in my prior response, you would know if you read the entire post or read it correctly. 

Here is what I said:

"DE's developing mantra, has always been iterative, they constantly work to improve upon and change a system, it doesn't mean if a mode was already implemented in one way it cannot be changed or improved, they have done this countless times in the past with their reworks and still do. So your argument here doesn't hold up."

You have committed yet another logical fallacy with this line of thinking, the appeal to authority. You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.

Again I never claimed that all of us want scaling, I said most of us, I also added an elaboration that most if not all of the long time players want it. Those things are not the same as claiming the entire playerbase wants it. In other words I hate to say it, but another Logical fallacy, a strawman.

 

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

i like how you say no-scaling has no leg to stand on yet DE has clearly gone away from incentivizing playing past 20. Their reward system is clearly designed to restart after 20. you never get double rewards, it doesn't even go CCCC. It starts back at the lowest tier, 2x. So maybe they know things we don't. Maybe scaling rewards isnt as clear a positive design choice as some of you think. 

Its not that even im THAT much against scaling. Ive said multiple times that i believe fissure style scaling is good. i'm against the idea that we need to play for 20 minutes before the content gets challenging and rewarding. Im against people advocating for encouraging that instead of just asking for a more satisfying 20 minutes, that's rewarded appropriately. The times i've stayed past 20-30 on survival was purely because its was only then, when it started getting fun. I leave because, while its fun, ive just been playing ONE mission for 20+ minutes. 20 minutes in not a "quick in/out". The Kuva fortress should be a high level playground IMO. it doesnt need to be lvl 100, but at least some 50+ nodes, with roaming Kuva guards 60+ that yield rewards.

You harp on "harder work needs better rewards!!" yes, i agree....but why are people so insistent on gating that harder work behind a (sometimes) sleep inducing 20 minutes is beyond me. Have fun with your debate. Clearly some of you lack any kind of perspective to understand what im trying saying and would rather yell "strawman!! strawman!!!" like you just learned that word on the internet yesterday. 

Dare I say you're lazy ? Because from what is looks like that is exactly what you are and what you want from this system. Even if the enemies started at a higher level, the endpoint would be the same it would still be 20 mins in then out. So you either want the mode to start at a harder difficulty , do your 20 minutes and leave while still getting the same crappy rewards we get now or you want the base reward to also be higher to match, essentially making siphons and floods worthless over the survival.

Either way your scenario is a lose lose, again you have no foothold to stand on. Why do you want to limit others , when you can still play the siphons ? Why are you so against this ? How does this harm you or your fun with the game ? it is nothing but selfish reasoning, your idea of survivals and other endless modes may be "sleep inducing," but to others they enjoy this way of playing the game.

Like I have said in previous posts, a well balanced scaling will reward others who want to put in their 20 minutes while still giving incentive to us long time players to keep playing the mode. So even you will benefit from such a change, this is why I say it is nothing but a positive. Siphons for fast kuva and endless for vets that need kuva in a large bulk quantity. Think of it like shopping in bulk, buying a small amount of a certain item will be a good price, however in the long run buying in bulk saves you money.

DE's developing mantra, has always been iterative, they constantly work to improve upon and change a system, it doesn't mean if a mode was already implemented in one way it cannot be changed or improved, they have done this countless times in the past with their reworks and still do. So your arguement here doesn't hold up.

As for the logical fallacies, its true you and others constantly use them either purposefully or ignorantly,  as DeMoneky stated if you do not want us to keep pointing them out, stop using them in your arguments. If you truly do not mean to use them, take a look at your argument and ask yourself is there flaws within in it ? Can I improve my points ? Is this counterintuitive to my objective ? The point of a debate is to try do your best to convince the other party, it is why you try your best not to resort to these fallacies, otherwise your arguments start to fill with cracks and you lose your place to stand on. This is why you try not to resort to such things as ad hominem as it makes your argument look weaker. That said I am not saying you used  adhomiem, it was merely an example

Ironically it is you that seems to lack perspective, I have tried to see you and others side of the argument and have pointed out the flaws within, yet you people refuse to even acknowledge them. I cannot logically see a reason, as to why a well balanced scaling system, would be a negative and bring harm to the game and community. Unfortunately your arguments have not convinced me of your point of view.

A large portiation of us have been asking for this for years now, literally almost every longtime player if not all of them. So what is the harm in addressing those concerns ? When they could bring about positive changes if addressed ?

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Im not trying to come up with a solution for people that want to do 1 hour survivals. 

nah, i'm just waiting for you to start saying "ad hominem" " logical fallacy" and "slippery slope". im sure your familiar with all of these internet rebuttals. 

You see that is where we differ, we are trying to come up with solutions and improvements while you here are trying to keep the status quo. Why are you against possible positive changes to the game ? If the mode has flaws they can always be fixed and improved upon, we have to at least try. How will you succeed if you do not take at least some form of risk ? Give it a chance, before your turn it down.

And no there is no TL:DR, there is no way such a topic and response can be condensed down, without losing some of the meaning and intention behind it.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

3 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

My point? I was clearly making a comparison. Did you read the next paragraph?

Ikr, funny that. It's almost like scaling rewards don't exist or something.

In your opinion. There's no should be shouldn't be here, just opinion. 

It's clear that we're just going to butt heads about this and get nowhere. I can't really see anything more that can be added to this, and you're just repeating yourself like a broken record, so whatever. As long as you stop posting strawmen then I'm good. 

This is exactly the way I feel about this topic currently, the people that are against scaling, have no foothold to stand on. They use strawman to misrepresent our arguments and blatantly ignore any fact and logic we bring up. Their reason for being against scaling other than selfishness ? Nonexistent, hopefully DE will see the common sense in having harder work and time put in, be rewarded, lest we end up like Destiny, where none of the content is worthwhile for the effort put in.

There already is barely any reason to do star chart missions these days and hardly any worthwhile content for long time players and yet when there is a sign we might get something worthwhile, no mater how tiny of a change it is, there are selfish people that come out the woodwork and want to stop a positive change. This mode with the correct scaling and balance has no negatives whatsoever, yet people still oppose it for nonsensical reasons. 

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

On 3/31/2018 at 11:11 PM, This_Machine said:

You mean besides the survival being more fun, and getting much more affinity? If nothing changes Ill probably never do kuva siphons again, but my mods are at that point though. If the survival version is too hard then stick to the siphons till you get better.

That is not what I said, nor claimed,  You quite literally used a strawman to misrepresent my argument and in one of the most cliche ways to do so too. You have added no merit to this conversation and are derailing the topic. You have what played the game for 2 years, while I have been along the ride for 5. Looking through your recent amount of forum posts, they seem to be nothing but shallow remarks and japes too. Stay quiet when the adults are speaking, if you have nothing of worth to add to the conversation, otherwise you come of as nothing but a petulant child trying to get a rise out of someone.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 minute ago, This_Machine said:

You know what would make everyone happy? If DE sold a 3x resource booster.

People that don't want scaling kuva would be happy.

People that want a challenge can still stay longer.

People that just want kuva will get a lot of it, so time would be irrelevant.

Everyone wins 

Except that doesn't solve the problem at all, that just exacerbates the situation making the normal siphons far too lucrative in comparison. if you didn't have any reason to run the survival before, you would have even less reason to do so at that point.

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

1 minute ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Exactly. Dont like it, dont stay but let other people who want it have their fun

yep,that's what the siphons are for 

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

Just now, (PS4)lhbuch said:

If DE made it so kuva could scale, wouldnt people who want it be happy and stay longer and people who dont want it just leave earlier?

I mean if you dont want it to scale just let it scale and leave when you feel like it. Dont understand why anybody would be sad because other people are getting kuva staying much longer

That's what boggles my mind, its nothing but a positive, a net gain, the people that argue against it have nothing but nonsense counter points it seems. 

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

22 minutes ago, WhiteCr0w said:

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"."

I'm not sure you do. I made no mention of endgame, which is the point he's attempting to argue. We're in a thread about Endless Kuva scaling.

Sure, you weren't arguing for it nor did you bring it up, but that is exactly the problem. Even if you didn't bring it up, doesn't mean that kuva and rivens do not have intrinsic ties to the "endgame" of warframe, they are both late game systems and rewards, locked off from a majority of the playerbase. So it only makes sense that the conversation about it will come up. That does not mean he was specifically trying to make the topic about endgame, just that this mode could be part of it, its but a part of his argument, not the entire basis of it. 

Again the kuva fortress tileset is not meant for beginners and casuals anyway, thus it should not cater to them.

While the endless modes are not necessarily endgame missions, doesn't mean they should not have the option to be to other players. With correct scaling they can be what endurance players are looking for, especially for the Kuva ones. While the kuva siphons exist for those that want quick kuva and get out, the endless mode  is for players on the other side of the spectrum.

In the end regardless if you are in favour of it or not Kuva missions are not intended for newer players. These players have gotten used to taking advantage of higher leveled and experienced players by leeching off of them in the siphon missions. Whereas when it comes to a mode like endless kuva survivals , it is much harder for them to do so, which is fine. These modes specifically should not be designed around those players and is intended for those more experienced. As for the general star chart I think those would need scaling too, albeit balanced quite differently from the Kuva fortress tileset, as more of the playerbase has access to them.

 

[Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale]

10 minutes ago, WhiteCr0w said:

This thread is about Endless Kuva and the possibility for scaling rewards. Where does "endgame" fit into that? These forums are nothing but strawman after strawman; people bringing up other issues with the game attempting to fit them into something that doesn't apply. Are you saying Endless Kuva scaling should be endgame? Endless missions in general? Ignore the fact it was designed to fit between a siphon and flood?

You're making points about the lack of endgame in Warframe, how Endless missions could be more difficult and rewarding, and slapping that on Kuva endless. And people praise this for being "logical". I can't stand these forums anymore. I'm done.

I don't think you know what a straw man is, his argument and lines of thought are logical and make sense, I don't see much if any flaws in his line of thinking. Yours on the other hand leaves little to be desired.