[I think it's time frost recieved some attention.]

To quote myself from a minute ago in another thread...

Actually Frost did just get an indirect buff, in that we can proc status through enemies frozen with his 4. The main problem people run into is just not using him properly. Cover long reloads with his 1, use his 2 as a long range radar that slows enemies down, don't even bother with his 3 unless you're running mobile defense or you need to clear out a chunk of enemies from a downed ally. His 3 actually works better as a weapon for smashing enemies into walls, his 4 is his bread and butter move for defense. Build Range > Efficiency > Duration > Strength. Shut the whole room down with his 4 and just kill everything. Scythes and both Two Handed Nikana's work great with heavy builds for him; they proc slash through enemies frozen with his 4 in a wide arc, which in turn makes them explode and refresh the freeze time on anything around him.

He's fine. He's my most used frame by a rather large margin.

[Frost rework when is is coming?]

Actually Frost did just get an indirect buff, in that we can proc status through enemies frozen with his 4. The main problem people run into is just not using him properly. Cover long reloads with his 1, use his 2 as a long range radar that slows enemies down, don't even bother with his 3 unless you're running mobile defense or you need to clear out a chunk of enemies from a downed ally. His 3 actually works better as a weapon for smashing enemies into walls, his 4 is his bread and butter move for defense. Build Range > Efficiency > Duration > Strength. Shut the whole room down with his 4 and just kill everything. Scythes and both Two Handed Nikana's work great with heavy builds for him; they proc slash through enemies frozen with his 4 in a wide arc, which in turn makes them explode and refresh the freeze time on anything around him.

[Refining Is a Pointless Mechanic]

2 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

It also needs to be something that happens automatically at the end of a mission, so that everyone gets those resources.

^ This right here. Someone picks it up, everyone gets it. Period. This is just a way to drag things out even further on top of the ridiculous part repair costs, which are even higher than the already insane costs to make parts you can research.

[(PC) Empyrean: Economy Feedback Megathread]

It's a vicious cycle of needing to literally waste materials just to get the ship going for a chance at getting materials that your going to need to get the ship going again. This was either terribly thought out, or perfectly thought out to add as much grind as possible while killing progression. You have to burn everything you need to progress just to run through a mission. If you get a damaged ship part, kiss all of that "progress" goodbye. The material requirements for new ship parts are ridiculous. Take pustrels for example; with an orange booster, I'll get maybe 100 for 20 minutes of mining on the plains. Then once you have them, you need them just to charge up the fire extinguisher. If you manage to complete a mission and get a new part for your ship that needs repairs, you just lost what little progress you gained from completing the mission. If I have to stare at rocks for hours just to get one new ship part, just to have that literally blow up in my face I'm going to find a different game to play. Remove the "upkeep" for the extinguisher, put the other 3 Avionics on cooldowns that reduce with Intrinsic upgrades, reduce the overall cost for new ship parts by a large margin, switch repairs to use things like Alloy and Ferrite. As is, this is far worse than Cetus on launch.

Edit: 120 isos, 3600 diodes and 2400 pustrels to repair one new part. That part's stats are RNG. If I happen to get another one that's better, that is an absolutely disgusting waste of resources. This is Hema all over again, only with RNG on top. Try 12 isos, 360 diodes, 240 pustrels. One tenth reduction. I'm dead serious. I'm at Ghost clan rank. The fact that there's RNG added to these... 
 

[(PC) Empyrean: Railjack General Feedback Megathread]

Yeah, ngl, this just feels like a waste of resources and time. And I mean that in terms of the resources and time I dumped into making the ship, as well as the Dev resources and time, and time spent actually playing it.

Movement
Feels... incredibly boring, and incredibly janky at the same time. You're either chugging forward or sitting there. The crosshair affects ascending/ descending/ turning far too easily, and yet it still moves too slowly to allow for any kind of decent aim. You end up either chugging or spinning in place. If the crosshair isn't right up against one of the corners or very top or bottom of the screen, it shouldn't have any effect on the ships trajectory.

Payload
This is just stupid. Go and hunt down a bunch of eximus units and mine (while spots still aren't spawning correctly on Fortuna) for a bunch of stuff that you need to burn just to use basic functions of the ship, while also being needed to craft new parts for the ship. The fact that just putting out all of 5 fires will burn pustrels and cubics is a joke, considering that that's an integral part of the mission. Give the fire extinguisher infinite charges, put the other three on cooldowns that you can decrease by leveling/ modding. And that's coming from someone who despises the idea of cooldowns in any game in general, but it's better than eating resources that could be put to better use elsewhere.

I'll probably mess around with it some more, but the idea of this being integrated into story quests or being "the future of Warframe"... no. Just no. The main run and gun gameplay is what got me into the game, not anything else. Archwing has always been a point of contention for the playerbase, and this just feels like a worse, more time intensive, high resource grind-for-nothing-because-you-just-burn-them version of Archwing. 

 

[About Experimental Flight]

"So you liked being able to do fun things like loops and flying upside down. Too bad. We're streamlining the controls to be boring."

[Liches will still kill you no matter what.]

I could care less about losing one of 4-6 lives either way. It's completely arbitrary, and neither adds nor removes anything to gameplay. The truly annoying part is that they're just not going to bother doing anything about the murmur grind, they aren't going to add a way to boost stats, and all they said is that Palladino might be able to banish one lich you don't want per week. Whoop de doo. What even is the point of the feedback section existing. Either they flat out ignored the dozens of threads with 50+ posts suggesting ways to improve the system, or whoever goes through the feedback is blind. 

[Why you gotta do my girl Equinox dirty like that]

The OG wing does look better, but it's still a nice skin imo. 

On 2019-11-24 at 2:21 AM, Miyabi-sama said:

One minute I play a vampire knight girl and then I switch to the petite slim beauty of night.

And Night's still got assets where it counts too.  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °)

I'll show myself out.

[Ghost and ghouls. Nekros and revenant rework idea.]

On 2019-06-20 at 2:57 PM, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Revenant rework

• Mesmer Skin (passive) - Revenant is enveloped in sentient energy, which redirects damage and stuns all enemies who attack him. Revenant receives a charge whenever he reaves a thrall.
• Enthrall - convert a target into a Thrall for a short duration. Charging this ability will covert multiple enemies into thralls.
• Reave (move to 2 slot) – the movement ability remains the same except whenever Reave passes thru a thrall it sacrifices, granting a charge. If Reave is charged, Revenant will sacrifice all thralls leeching health and shield and disintegrating enemies killed into pillars, each Thrall sacrificed will restore Mesmer skin.
• Twisted Beast – sacrifice all thralls and summon an eidolon remnant (kubrow-like eidolon) for a short duration. The remnants power and defense will be based on the number of thralls sacrificed.

Big nope to both "reworks". Your changes are direct nerfs to both frames survivability, and you clearly have no idea how Revenant functions.

Mesmer skin is better than Iron Skin. You can recast it whenever you want, it's impossible for damage to leak through when charges are running low and any enemy that hits you gets stunned for 5 seconds which means they're as good as dead. Making it a passive is a straight up nerf. A stunned enemy costs no energy to convert into a thrall with his 1. An enemy converted into a thrall with his 1 converts other enemies into thralls simply by damaging them. Making it a charge mechanic is also a straight up nerf. Reave already restores mesmer charges when you use it on thralls. Using his 4 makes thralls explode in an AoE. The fire pillars aren't there to damage enemies who walk through them, they automatically fire souls at enemies because they're turrets. On top of that, his 4 adapts its damage to deal with different enemy types. Replacing that with a Kubrow is a joke, their AI is terrible. That entire rework idea is a badly thought out nerf to one of the best scaling frames in the game, and you obviously don't even realize it, as the things you're trying to add already exist in a better form than what you're suggesting.

By turning Nekros' 3 into a passive with a set chance and range, you nerf his survivability as well as destroy one of the only unique builds in the game. Despoil + Equilibrium + Health Conversion + Adaptation. Enemies drop a health orb, which you can always pick up since Despoil costs a bit of health, which gives you stacks of armor thanks to Health Conversion, which gets DR added on top of it since you have a constant flow of health to burn, and Equilibrium restores your energy while making sure that orbs also count for triggering Health Conversion. Gutting that kills long survival runs and Kuva Survival especially.

Nekros doesn't need a rework, and Revenant absolutely doesn't need a rework, especially one thats a poorly thought out nerf due to someone not understanding how he works.

[Regarding Pablo's recent stream about saryn]

I love how people just completely ignore that post from Pablo saying that he talks about all kinds of random s--- in his streams and that he's not working on a Saryn nerf. What should be more concerning is that anyone at DE had the idea that Ember was going to become a go-to Onslaught frame. You would need to spam her 4 to make that happen. Simaris slaps a cooldown on any ability that you use too frequently in Onslaught. That's a mechanic that was programmed into Onslaught. By the people at DE who made Onslaught.



At least it's amusing to watch everyone completely miss the point and misinterpret things.

[[UPDATE: Live early!] Riven disposition update set for December 17th! Here's what to expect]

9 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

You can safely expect the normal Kohm to get a disposition nerf. Why? Because the Kuva Kohm now exists, and it can reach 100% status with the dual stat elemental mods without a Riven, and DE's reasoning for not nerfing the Kohm in particular for the past year was tied to how nerfing disposition could kill these status builds. This is no longer a limitation considering the variant can achieve the same results, because DE would want you to use the Kuva Kohm instead. 

"Rivens were rolled out under the guise of getting people to use weaker weapons that they weren't using before. The Kohm is one of the few instances of this actually working. Now that there's a version of the Kohm that doesn't need a riven to hit 100% status and has innate elemental damage on top of that, you can safely expect them to nerf that 100% status capability out of the weaker original. Even though the Kuva Kohm already has a lower disposition."


Flawless logic.

[The Real Problem Behind Nuke Spam (It's Operators)]

 

27 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Travel 200m in 3-5 seconds

Only after grinding out millions of focus for the cost of unbinding waybound passives as well as paying for the pool to activate them, which entails waiting for it to be night, trying to find a decent group of Eidolon hunters that will actually invite you and not getting screwed over in the process.

27 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Apply bullet attractor

This is a crap status proc that has little to no effect on enemies that were just going to die anyway.

27 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

• Hold groups of enemies in place for several seconds and do something else at the same time
• Heal your frame and everyone else's

 Both of these are arcanes that require 100k standing each with Vox Solaris. That means slogging through profit taker and exploiter or farming an ungodly amount of toroids, over the course of multiple weeks.

27 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

This is before activating an operator discipline.

But only after grinding millions of focus and a few hundred thousand points of standing.

27 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Now you can gain limitless energy on command, make everyone else invisible with damage reduction, or charge your next several shots to multiple their damage with no limit.

Now you can gain a buff that gives you a few points of energy over the span of 30 seconds, use Ash's Smokescreen augment, and only get a few stacks of Void Strike that only help with semi automatic weapons with a limit on the number of shots you can take before you have to stay in void mode and do nothing for a while to charge it back up.

27 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

having energizing dash basically gives you a way to spam energy to the point where you can then spam abilities. What this means you can ignore ability efficiency and focus on strength and range.

No, you can't. It doesn't come close to making up for Blind Rage, and you're still going to have a gimped build, and there is far too much variation between frame abilities and the way you would build them to make a blanket statement like this.

Not having Zenurik sucks. Only being able to use your abilities three or four times in a mission defeats the purpose of having abilities. The investment of time it takes to get anywhere with focus is ridiculous and it should be rewarding. Thanks, but I'd rather not have a boring, slow, unfun game that doesn't reward investment. 

 

[Dude, Where's My Respect? - NPCs, Fear and the Power Fantasy of Warframe]

Like it was pointed out above, at least the relays kinda make sense, since the only people there would obviously be familiar with Warframes, and they keep to themselves anyway, except for the syndicates and vendors. Darvo's insane, we saved Maroo, and Baro, stuck up as he is, still thanks us when we walk up with Inaros.

However, if you were around before Cetus and Fortuna existed, when Nidus first dropped, there was once certain thing that happened, that, to this day, after 3.5k hours, is still the most memorable moment in this game for me. It's in Neewa's quest, when you first walk into the ship where she lives. Other than the non-interactable NPCs on the relays, this was the first time we came across someone... else, who wouldn't have any familiarity with us. And if you do this after going to Cetus or Fortuna, it completely destroys the significance of this moment.

You're crossing over a metal catwalk and just off to the side on a small, branching platform there are two people standing, talking to each other. There's a slight intake of breath as you pass by them, and you can hear the surprise and fear as one of them nervously whispers to the other, "I-is that... a Tenno?"

Considering that a massive ice demon in a trenchcoat just walked by them, carrying a sword longer than they are tall, along with a shotgun that would shatter their arms if they could actually manage to lift and fire it, it only made sense.

Now we have Konzu, happy about getting his lunch early. Landing on Cetus for the first time killed the chance for new players to smirk as they heard that guy ask those four words, and that really sucks. Unfortunately, there's no going back now.

[Let all our Sentinels roam, give them some personality. Let them interact with each other, our operators/Warframes and things around the Orbiter/Liset.]

My Diriga broke free once. It should be a feature, not a bug.

[This is what happens when you get jumped by a syndicate on Europa or Ceres]

Thanks Suda, I think I'm set on Diodes now lol

[Does DE confuse RNG+Grind with Challenge?]

In Brozime's interview with Meg she said they do it on purpose to try and prevent people from burning through content, as they want players to take their time with things that took them months to create. Ironically, this only ever has the exact opposite effect, causing us to figure out the most efficient way to get it done without suffering through all the artificial layers of grind planted over what's actually new and fun. 

[Nightwave challenges reset after recent update!]

Same thing happened for me too.

[How To Take Out a Lich in Under 3 Hours]

For context, here's my list.



And here's the poor shmuck I'm going to use as an example. I'm going to explain why he's dead at only rank 2, and why he was never going to get past rank 4 anyway. I traded someone for him at 9:45pm, and killed him at midnight on the nose, due to luck. Even if I hadn't gotten lucky with the third Requiem, he would've been dead within half an hour anyway.



If you're going to do this, you'll want an Umbral Adaptation Inaros or an equally tanky frame like Umbral Nidus, Revenant, or Rhino, a very powerful and preferably riven'ed hitscan weapon, and a max rank Magus Repair. And you are definitely going to want to go solo, unless you're lucky enough to have a group of people who already know how this works. Unfotunately, this isn't something newer players are going to be able to do.

The way this works is simple. Up to ten thralls can spawn into a mission. A lich can convert an additional ten regular grineer into thralls as well. Once every 10-15 seconds, the lich will gesture towards a standard grineer and turn them into a thrall. By simply luring the lich to a crowd and then not attacking anything that isn't a thrall, you can get 15-20 murmurs per mission you run, consistently and repeatedly. Once the lich stops converting thralls for you to kill, leave. That's it. Just ignore them. Or beat them down a few times to make them run, since that just got added. This way, their anger meter won't reset, and there will be a very high likelihood of them spawning into the very next mission you choose, allowing you to repeat the process. Once you have your first requiem unveiled and a significant chunk of the second, or if you're running out of good missions, let them convert you another ten thralls, THEN stab them to test the requiem. Murmurs carry over from one ring to the next, so there's no reason to waste that opportunity.

For a lich to convert a standard grineer, they can't be knocked, and they need a somewhat clear line of sight to said grineer. This is why you really want a frame as tanky as an Umbral Inaros and a way to heal on top of that. You're going to need to get your dodging skills in order too. Using a hitscan weapon without punchthrough or AoE preserves grineer to be turned into thralls as well. This is a very different experience from the way most people normally run missions, which is a change of pace I personally quite enjoy after almost 3.5k hours in game.

What are good missions? Exterminate, Capture, Sabotage, Spy and Mobile Defense. Missions where you choose how long they'll last. Normal Defense and Interception are terrible, as you only have a set amount of rounds, and they aren't particularly fun to run solo. Survival is decent, though you may find yourself running back and forth between the lich and life support tanks, which gets annoying fast.

When you run the mission, take your time, kill everything, explore everywhere. Clearing out enemies makes the game spawn in more enemies, one of which may be a Thrall, and crossing the line-def between individual tiles on the map (that's the doorways between them) seems to trigger spawns of both thralls and liches.

No having to hope for shared nodes with clanmates, no dealing with people who demand you stab/ won't stab, no worrying about Revenant's, just clean efficiency. That's what you're going for.

As for poor Vortol, here's a rundown. And a few unfortunate things I've discovered as well.
- Got him at 9:45pm, 3 missions later at 10:18pm, 2 of which he spawned into, I unlocked the first murmur, Khra.
- Another 4 missions, 3 of which he spawned into, I test Khra, it's the first, the second I have on, Jahu, is wrong. He takes me out, I unlock the second murmur anyway due to converted thralls and the stab bonus, Fass, at 11:02pm. I leave Khra where it is (obviously) put Fass in the second slot, and swap Jahu into the third.
- Another 5 missions, only two of which he spawned into, I'm almost at the third murmur and running out of good missions. After letting him convert thralls, I stab, Khra/ Fass, Fass is good, I get lucky and that Jahu I left in happens to be the third. He dies at midnight, and was only active for a total of 2h15m. Even if I didn't get lucky with Jahu, the failure would've made me hit the third murmur and he would've died within another few missions anyway.

Stab with one murmur known in the first slot, move it to the second if its wrong, leave it if it's right. Don't stab again until you get the second murmur reveal. If neither are in the first slot, you know that's where the last murmur goes. You don't need to stab them more than 4 times if you're smart about it. 

To put this into perspective, I figured out the conversion mechanic on the second day of liches existing in the game. Because I was "lucky" enough to be sick at the time and had nothing better to do, I took out those first 30 liches within the first 11 days of them being added to the game. I was done on the 10th before lich trading was even added to the game 4 days later. Vortol's the first lich I've bothered running in almost two weeks now. There is absolutely no reason to bang your head against a wall and get bent out of shape over this mess of an update.

Now, as for those unfortunate things. I know someone's going to post "But you get 10 murmurs off a failed stab!" No, you don't. The patch notes say roughly 10x on average. In-game that translates to an RNG roll of 4-10 thralls worth. Stabbing also reduces their anger meter, meaning they aren't going to show up for a few missions, which just reduces consistent murmur gain. And that's the key to getting them done in a somewhat decent amount of time. Consistency. Also, the murmur total was never actually reduced. It isn't 30/30/70 like the patch notes allude to, its 30/50/70. It was originally 50/50/50. It wasn't reduced, it was just shifted around.

The most unfortunate part? The lich system as a whole is completely unintuitive, and not only discourages team play, but will lead to some very nasty interactions with people. For example, going into a pub mission when you have all three murmurs and know the order is just asking for trouble. You should've run solo, instead of creating a situation for yourself where your lich has a 1/4 chance of spawning. This leads to people demanding that others stab their liches because of a problem they created for themselves. That in turn screws the other members of the group over. Getting killed automatically isn't an issue imo, but someone who isn't ready for lv100 missions getting stuck with them is. The murmur "bonus" (if you even want to call 4-10 thralls worth off one mission versus a possible 20 from every mission a bonus) isn't shared anymore, but individual thralls are, and if that lich was allowed to convert enemies, everyone could walk out with far more. There should also be an MR gate on liches to prevent newer players from having to endure this. Though I know that wouldn't help much as there are plenty of high MR's who basically AFK and expect others to do the work for them. 

I know people will continue to demand, and curse and troll instead of just using their heads, though if you made it through this wall of text, hopefully it will help. 

[Large List of Bugs.]

Nice to know someone else noticed all of this.

The Thralls launching themselves into/ through walls is from them inheriting their liches movement ability. If you knock them mid-air or mid-dash the chance of them getting stuck in something is even higher.

I think DE changed or broke the parazon animation with operators; they use the terminal hacking animation on finishers, probably because before anything you finishered/ mercied as an operator would just fall over dead with no animation. This seems to have broken it with frames too, as if you happen to be higher or lower than your target, your frame will do the terminal animation instead of a stab animation, and that's when you go flying out of the map. Like the game isn't processing your location in regards to the targets location properly and just filling in the gap however it can.

Thralls playing lich lines is probably why they're spawning 200m away; I noticed that when the lich finally does spawn in, it tends to be back around where the thrall that was playing their lines spawned. Like the game, again, isn't processing the enemies location properly and just juxtaposes whatever it can, completely breaking it in the process and making you run back through the level.

If anyone from DE sees this thread, I've seen and posted pretty much all of the same things the OP noted in the main lich bug report thread as well. It'd be nice to get this mess straightened out.

[New toxic habit "Lich Greifing", Stab your lich please?]

Sure, the Revenant one is messed up. But you are causing all of your own problems with the Wisp. I already explained this to you in this thread.
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1142219-murmur-farming-tips-and-tricks/
 

4 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

2nd Incident. Me and a Wisp player is Extermination. Wisp player's lich spawns in and is level 1. He does nothing to despawn his lich. Mind you this is right atyer my incident with a Revenant player, incident 1. I had to beg him to stab his lich so mine has a chance to spawn in. With the mission being a super quick Exterminate time is very mininal in spawning liches.

You knew what your Requiem order is, and yet you picked a pub match. As I said in the thread above, by running on pub you give yourself a reduced chance of your lich spawning. One person, only their lich can spawn. Multiple people, it's random. Obviously. You made that decision, not the person in the Wisp.

4 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

Because he refused to stab his lich I was stuck downing his level 1 lich over and over again requesting for minutes on end to allow me to spawn my own. That way he can't get his conversions since he wanted to stop my progress.

Then, to make things even worse, you started purposely trolling him to prevent him from getting any murmur progress. Because you chose to run on pub and wanted your lich to spawn. I kinda doubt that that "requesting" part was actually a request.

4 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

He finally stabs his lich says nothing. My lich finally spawns, keep in mind this is at the end of my current hunt at the time so the Lich is level 5. I cannot down hin myself and the Wisp watches me die over and over and over again. We also cannot extract because of a door requiring two player imput. So I have hin trapped but he does nothing to aid me as I get slammed over and over. 10 minutes go by and I am forced to extract wasting my chance at vanquidhing said lich.

Then because you trolled him and made him stab his lich because of your decision to run on pub, you're surprised that he didn't feel like helping you? When you aren't even geared up to take out your own lich? And then you keep trolling him on top of it.

2 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

Teamwork. Consideration. He wasn't helping me and yet I was still stabbing thralls for him. I lost, he gained.

So first you say you were trolling him, then it changes to you stabbing thralls for him? 

2 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

That's the result of that incident. He had no plans of working with me. I sacrifice my time and effort to get him murmurs. And yet...he can't help me down my lich?

My loss. His gain. That is so heavily one sided that you can't consider him a victim if he still got his goal with every advantage given to him, including my effort used to help him progress. Meanwhile he stopped my progression completely and forced 4 more mission for me to endure before finally killing my lich.

And now you're changing what you said originally, trying to play it off like you're the victim? Your "effort"? You couldn't even handle your own lich. He didn't force you to do anything. You "forced" four more missions on yourself. You could've just left and picked a different mission, but you didn't. He didn't grief you, you griefed him. He wasn't the "toxic" one, that was you, trolling him.

2 hours ago, Remedyheart said:

Teamwork was suppose to be a vital point in handling our nemesis but in the end we as players are pointing fingers and fighting each other instead. 

 "I'm going to run on pub even though I know my murmur combination and know it might create a situation where my lich might not spawn." "Oh, this dude isn't doing what I want him to do to try to get my lich to spawn. I'm going to troll him so he doesn't get any progress too." "What? Why won't he cooperate with me as a team? These people are toxic griefers."

Oh the irony... and I'm still curious as to what your average time to take out a lich from larva to vanquish is.

[New toxic habit "Lich Greifing", Stab your lich please?]

@Remedyheart What's the average amount of time it takes you, from stabbing the larva to killing or converting the lich?

[Toxic lich hunter bullies are spreading "badwill", ban them.]

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1142219-murmur-farming-tips-and-tricks/?tab=comments#comment-11161340

I already outlined this in the thread above and like five others. I'm sick of repeating myself. People who demand that other players stab their lich are idiots. They chose to run on pub and give themselves a 1/4 chance of their lich spawning. They keep choosing to bash their heads against a wall, failing requiem mods, wrongly thinking that they're getting 10 murmurs worth of thralls when the stab bonus averages out to 4-8. They refuse to let liches convert standard grineer into thralls and get more murmurs for themselves and everyone else on the team. They reset their liches anger meter and reduce their chances of their lich spawning at all. They ignore defense objectives to wail on the lich. 

Block them. Ignore them. The only thing they do is make the grind longer for themselves and everyone else in the squad because they don't pay attention and don't bother to learn how lich mechanics work. Then they try to demand that other players inflict the same on themselves, trying to get others to waste 5-6 hours on one lich or ask that some kind of punishment gets added to players who don't indulge their stupidity. You can take out 2-3 liches a day and still have time to run sorties and do Nightwave, or you can waste an entire day going after one. I took out 30 liches in two weeks and I'm only missing the ogris. Pics are in the link. Immediately stabbing your lich is dumbest idea to ever get into the meta of this game.

[Hey guys, are we fine with Lich trading?]

If it's only lich for lich, cool. It's not going to be rivens 2.0 since people will still have to take out the lich themselves, and outside of people doing weird side trades, I doubt anyone's gonna want to do extra work to side-trade plat for something they're going to have grind anyway when they can get it for free. If it's lich for plat... well... 

[Murmur Farming, Tips and Tricks]

I want you to know that this isn't any kind of personal attack, but almost everything in this post is the exact opposite of what you want to do.

26 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

So the first thing to know is that short missions, such as exterminate, sabotage, and rescue, are bad for murmur farming. The best way to farm thralls is with longer missions, suh as defense, interception, and survival. There's a couppe of reasons why and the biggest reason being it saves you time and maximises your uptime for these spawns.

Shorter missions last 2 to 3 minutes where as thrall spawns last for the first 5 minutes of a mission. Completing quick missions may make you miss out on additional thrall spawns by extracting too soon. This fact alone increases your time on the loading screen and creates more downtime than needed, so not only do you miss out on thralls for those missions you yourself end up sitting there waiting going back and forth between missions more than necessary.

Actually this is completely backwards. Defense is probably the worst, as you only get 5 waves. Spy isn't any good either, as the overall thrall spawns seem to be much less. Survival isn't bad, but the thralls spawn in a burst that dies out rather quickly, and it's not good for taking advantage of converted thralls since there's a time limit and the need to get life support. Interception can be good, but only in a group, and due to the sheer amount of bad information on liches, running in a group is almost always more trouble then it's worth. Exterminate, Capture, Moblile Defense and Sabotage are the best, as there is no time limit.

Taking your time is indeed the best way to go about it, however, I mean you need to kill every enemy on the map and explore every section of it. Spending 10 minutes in an exterminate can net you 15-25+ murmurs when you do it right. Rushing through the mission on pub in a group is a big mistake.

30 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

Keep in mind though that an active lich doesn't mean a big boost in thrall spawns. At most they can give out 2 to 3 extra thralls which isn't as noticable as the 10 given from said lich for a stab attempt. So best strategy for active lichs is to stab attempt and allow another to spawn. If and when you get yours you'll get a big boost for just attempting to stab your lich.

This is also incorrect. Liches will convert anywhere from 5-10 enemies on average, and those converted thralls do not count against the cap for thralls that spawn into the mission normally. When a lich spawns, don't attack them, don't kill any enemy near them. They won't convert enemies when they're knocked on one knee; they have an animation where they point to the grinner they're converting and they need to be able to do that. An incredibly tanky frame like Inaros and Rhino with a very accurate hitscan weapon works wonders; simply dodge and roll to avoid getting killed by the crowd of twenty dudes shooting at you, then pick off the thralls the lich converts. 5-10 converts + 5-10 spawned will net you twice the thralls on average. You'll see the difference when I post my lich list at the end.

35 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

There are a couple of reasons to stab your lich that are highly positive and outweight any negativity towards not stabbing them. First and foremost you get a big chunk to your murmurs, about ten thralls. Second a lich ranking up allows them to control another sector of another planet, which opens the way for more of the missions we want, defense, interception, and survival. These reasons combined with making the current mission smoother are the definite reasons why you should always stab your lich as a priority. Making the mission less annoying for other players is just icing on the cake.

This is also incorrect. You only get 4-8 thralls worth of murmurs on average on a failed stab. It's extremely rare to get more than that. The second part isn't correct because those are the mission types you don't want, like I explained above. Also, stabbing your lich resets their anger meter and means they aren't going to show up as frequently, which means less converted thralls, which cuts your murmur gain rate in half. Playing on pub isn't any good either, as when you're solo, your lich is the only lich that can spawn. In a group of four people, you only have a 1/4 chance of your lich being the one to spawn, if any lich spawns, and again, if you're stabbing them every time they show up, you also have less of a chance of them spawning at all.

40 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

Once you reveal your first mod, you should place it on the first slot to your parazon and then try a stab attempt. Doing this helps greatly in the guessing sequence part of the hunt. This can help in determining the position of the revealed mod by either eliminating the first slot for its placement or cementing its place on the first slot. When you get another attempt, it should reveal where that first mod should be placed. This makes guessing the second mod placement much easier and sometimes can even net you an easy kill by guessing the third one correctly in a 1/6 chance.

This is mostly correct. When you have the first one revealed, go into a mission, and let the lich convert as many enemies as possible BEFORE you stab them. That's 5-10+ converts, 5-10+ normal spawns, with the 4-8+ bonus stab on top of it. Because remember, after you stab your lich, they aren't going to show up for a while, and you aren't going to get the bonus converted thralls until they do. If you do it right, you should only have to stab your lich 4 or 5 times. Say I know Fass is one of them. Fass goes in the first slot, I let the lich convert enemies before stabbing them, I stab them, it's wrong. Fass goes in the second slot. I'm not going to stab them again until I have another murmur revealed. Say it reveals Khra. Khra goes in the first slot, Fass goes in the second. Khra light up white, Fass is wrong. Fass goes in the last slot and I know as soon as I get the last murmur done I only need to run into the lich one more time. By not stabbing them and going for converted thralls instead, I'm not only getting more murmurs on average, I also keep the chance of them spawning high, so I don't end up in the situation of knowing what the combo is while having to run five missions just to get the lich to show up, with absolutely no gain (once all murmurs are revealed, thralls no longer drop relics), which is a terrible spot to be in. And again, the total for converted + spawned thralls will always be higher than spawned + one stab, and you don't want to lose that.

48 minutes ago, Remedyheart said:

Lastly, always play with a full squad. This one is simple and its sad that I find pub players still just trying to run it on their own. A full team allows for more spawns. Teammates make it easier to complete the assigned objective while also claiming those precious murmurs. This is another reason why we love defense, survival, and interception. You are all actively completely the objective while farming thralls. Where a mission such as Rescue or Mobile Defense forces you to pay attention to the objective while trying to juggle thrall kills at the same time. 

This is a bad idea. Like I said before, by playing in a group you are giving yourself a 1/4 chance of your lich spawning, instead of being guaranteed that your lich will spawn if a lich spawns at all. Most players still think that powering through is the best way to do this; it's not. Demanding that people stab their lich is only costing everyone murmurs, including that player, and increasing the grind. Again, you get less converts, and you reduce the chances of your lich spawning.

I've taken out 30 liches so far. Here's my list. I'm only missing the Ogris.



Again, this isn't anything personal, I'm just trying to help you and anyone else who'll take a minute to read and think. Always let your lich convert as many enemies as possible, only kill the converted thralls around them until they stop converting thralls. Then, if you know what one of the mods you need is, stab them AFTER they've converted as many thralls as possible. Do not stab them every time they show up, you're only reducing the chance for them to show up more frequently, and costing yourself bonus converted thralls in the meantime. You don't even have to stab them at all, you are free to just gather information on them by killing their thralls and leaving; unless they've got a Shildeg, they aren't going to be following you anyway. And unless everyone else in the group knows this, running in a group, much less a pub, is only going to make everything take longer than it should. You can get 5-10 spawns + 4-8 from the stab bonus every now and then while reducing the chance for your lich to spawn, while giving yourself a 1/4 chance of your lich spawning. Or you can get 5-10 spawns and 5-10 converts consistently, plus the 4-8 stab bonus on top when you know a mod, while keeping the chance of running into your lich high, and guaranteeing that your lich will be the one that spawns.

Liches are puzzles, not brick walls. Use your brains and happy hunting.
 

[People not killing lich when it spawns]

I'm a broken record at this point, but whatever. Here we go again...

If you leave your lich alone for a bit before stabbing it, it will actively convert standard grineer into thralls. Converted thralls and thralls that spawn normally have separate caps for how many of them can spawn in mission. The cap for both has already been reduced, and since the shared stab bonus no longer exists, letting liches turn grineer into thralls is the best way for everyone on the team to get their murmurs figured out faster. Your lich also stays angrier longer the more thralls you kill. By stabbing them the second they show up, you're constantly resetting their angry meter to zero, making the chance of them spawn go way down, which stops you from getting the bonus converted thralls, which makes the grind take even longer to complete, and so on, in a vicious cycle of more grind and rng.

The stab bonus isn't always 10 thralls worth, it averages out to around 4-8. You can either get 5-10 spawned thralls, plus 5-10 converted thralls and 4-8 from the lich, or you can get 5-10 spawned thralls and 4-8 from the lich.

Players yelling at people to stab their liches immediately are costing themselves and everyone else murmurs. Not only that, they have no one to blame but themselves. If you run on pub, you've given yourself a 1/4 chance for your lich to spawn, if any lich spawns at all. They could have gone solo and made it a guarantee that their lich would be the only one that can spawn, but they didn't. And then they took it out on the rest of the squad, even though they caused the problem for themselves. On top of that, since they immediately stab their lich, they're reducing the chance for them to spawn, again, creating their own problem.

The only players sabotaging anyone are the players demanding that people stab their lich immediately. If, instead of freaking out on people, they would cooperate with their team to get liches to convert as many grineer as possible BEFORE stabbing, everyone would get their murmurs done faster and their lich lists would look like mine.



Liches are puzzles, not arm-wrestling contests. If someone doesn't want to stab their lich, the only thing that's going to happen is that lich is going to convert grineer into more thralls for everyone. If you know your combination, run solo so your lich is the only lich that can spawn. This isn't directed at anyone in this thread in particular, I'm just trying to help out anyone who will actually listen and think. Use your brains, don't smash your head against a wall. And don't take your lack of understanding of lich mechanics out on other people.