(PSN)Radehx
-
Posts
470 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by (PSN)Radehx
-
-
1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:
And
The typical "I sit in survival for three hours" guy arguments. This isn't so called endgame. This "endurance runs" are simply things people do when they want to do it, but are completely irrelevant to the core game itself. It may be a bit hard to swallow, but this thing you are talking about isn't "truly high level" or "the real challenge". It's simply "how much can I cheese the game with the current available mechanics" and "I want to do this because the Devs allowed it".
Sure, nobody's stopping you from playing survival that long. You can enjoy the challenge if you want. But a vast majority of the player base will never play your so called "truly high levels" because they are pointless outside of challenging the self. Plus most people wouldn't even play Warframe long enough to get to those levels in one session.
None of what you posted is relevant. The question was about the most challenging content. I didn't say Wisp is bad, I said she's weaker than frames like Ash, Octavia, Garuda & Co...which is a fact.
-
1
-
-
18 minutes ago, Ikyr0 said:
I legit think there are a few trolls in this thread who haven't actually done endurance runs 🤣
Yeah. There's just no way to kill fast enough at truly high levels unless you find a way to cope with armor...you simply can't kill fast enough with frames like Valkyr. And at one-shot levels, it's obviously irrelevant how much health you have. You either need invisibility or build around invulnerability with frames like Nidus.
90% DR is irrelevant if the 10% that gets through easily exceeds your health pool.
-
2
-
-
Just now, Ikyr0 said:
Big words. Ash is probably in the top 3 frames in the game for endurance runs. I don't think Wisp comes close.
Basically this. There's a reason most chaps who do multi-hour runs pick frames that can cope with the insane armor scaling. That's why they run with Ash, Ivara, Octavia, Garuda and so on...and NOT Valkyr or lol Wisp. Doesn't mean Valkyr/Wisp are bad frames, but they can't compete with frames that can basically nullify armor.
-
1 hour ago, Toran said:
One Word: Naramon
People just don't believe anything if you don't link a video. I don't do videos, I smash stuff.
Let me just say that Ash and Garuda not even come close (unless they got the same buffs 😋). I'm not talking out of theory but praxis here. Wisp plays more like a Warcry Valkyr on steroids, just with the neat extra abilities on top.
And Valkyr is also weaker than Garuda/Ash for long endless runs...and it's not even close. There's just no way they can compete with frames that get around armor. If you believe otherwise, you haven't done multi-hour runs 😉
-
11 minutes ago, Toran said:
Her damage directly depends on your weapons (that's why I think that her ultimate still sucks in comparison).
With over 100% attack speed & fire rate you can deal insane damage if you bring the "right" weapons while having very high movement speed (get Amalgam Serration, too), CC and invisibility at your disposal.
A Wisp with a double-maiming Zaw Polearm is a very vicious thing. Or imagine an Opticor Vandal with less than 0.25s charge time, great fun 😛
One of my favourite abilities however is being able to open Friendship Doors on your own, that's rather useful in Kuva missions when you want to clear the objective while the Siphon harvest is still going on.
Problem is, this doesn't scale well and your kps drops too much during endless runs due to how armor scales in this game. Frames like Garuda or Ash can keep up, Wisp can't even close to that during long runs. Not saying she's trash, but her damage output is significantly less than what some more suitable frames can do.
-
I don't think not taking damage is her issue during long runs, but her damage is lacking to keep up a high enough kills per second figure.
-
Only Octavia imo. She's the definition of a no-skill frame.
-
Like Ash, Banshee, Mag, Octavia, Irava and a few other frames, she's great against high level armored units. At low and mid levels, there are more efficient frames, but she shines brightly against high level content and during endless runs. And like Banshee, she requires a little skill to play well.
-
4
-
-
Yup, I'm totally fine with her. Damage scales indefinitely and she excels at high end levels against armored units. Great survivability too thanks to her 1.
She takes skill to play though, just like Banshee. Once it clicks though, she's a beast. In terms of damage output, few other frames match her against high end armored units.
-
Ash is just one of those frames that only really starts shining (brightly) at very high endgame levels. Yes, at lower levels, there are more efficient killers...but once you hit armored high-level enemies, he'll kill stuff faster than most other frames thanks to his armor stripping with Seeking Shuriken.
There are few frames that rival him at MOT runs of more than an hour for example.
-
5 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:
That's the whole point, it really isn't. It's another, comparable way of playing.
I'll leave you with just one small piece of food for thought. If the high end eHP based Vitality + HC has one shot problems, how do you rate the setup that has 5k odd eHP as more surviveable than the other? You do have to get damaged to lose that 1-5k halo. The window at which the enemy one shots you through halo is, in ypur opinion, higher on 90k+ eHP before Adaptation setup or on a 5k one?
As i said before, the invulnerable setup has a risk spike when halo is up and zero risk the rest of the time. The other setup has more consistent risk. And they cater to different playstyles. That's all there is to it.
You are misunderstanding halo! The points aren't EHP. You die WAY before your points run out past certain levels. Whether you enjoy playing those levels is kinda irrelevant.
The point is that it doesn't matter whether stuff one-shots you if you run the invul setup. Only having 3-5k in halo points, in that case, ensures the invul triggers instead of just killing you while leaving you with a ton of pointless halo points.
And again, you save on mod slots you can then use to boost your overall stats. So it isn't just the better setup in terms of tanking.
Doesn't mean the other setup isn't fun or viable up to high levels, but it is objectively weaker.
-
6 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:
stuff
10And how exactly does that change the FACT that the invul setup beats the other one in both tank and damage/duration? That's all I'm saying here.
If you consider another playstyle more fun, you do you, but that's not what I'm arguing here. The setup is stronger no matter how you play it. It's using a legit ability and not some bug too.
So even if you don't camp, it's objectively still the stronger setup...which is all I'm saying.
Quoteyou can go much farther with banshee than amy other frame
Yeah...Octavia and Ivara want to have a chat with you 😉
-
24 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:
On that i agree.
I just realised tho the video you linked in your first post was the umpteenth video of rio showing off a random frame camping a corner with zenistar blocking spawns and dumping zarr rounds down a stairway / chokepoint / whatever. All that while also being sheltered under an ancient specter DR.
That takes no amounts of skill. Literally none. Also it doesn't take any "build". You can do the same thing in a banshee with zero surviveability mods and have the exact same amount of success.
Now that doesn't necessarily devaluate the whole invulnerable nezha build. I have seen that one in use by people who understand playstyles different than mindless camping with full lockdowns and no risks involved. Again i prefer the other variant but that's beside the point.
Banshee can't get as far, at least not solo...mostly because she's toast if you #*!% up. Nezha is this strong because of invulnerability not too many other frames have. Same group as Nidus or Wukong...or Oberon with Phoenix Renewal.
And it does require skill because you can't face tank using this tactic without moving (like Nidus for example can). Also, for long runs you always camp. If everyone runs around like a headless chicken you #*!% up spawn rate too much.
All I'm saying is that the invul build will simply allow you to run for longer, because it doesn't really fall off. The other build does. Doesn't mean either is more fun imo, but it's a fact that the invul build has the better tank and given you save on mod slots, damage/duration too.
It's fine to prefer the other setup, but to pretend it isn't weaker (a fact) or hating on stronger setups is incredibly childish. It's also silly and akin to saying Wukong shouldn't use defy if he wants to be edgy, or Nidus shouldn't build stacks because using a legit ability is somehow "cheesing it".
-
2 hours ago, (XB1)Aquarii Ptosi said:
Honestly bro thank you for posting about how you're having "FUN" your way.
Sorry on behalf of the endgame community that this Conversation/Thanks to DE was undermined by degenerate nonsense (inserts of unneed/unnecessary opinions)
I've played nezah(I play most frames up to 2hrs + as a personal goal) up to 3hrs it's fun but don't let people fool you it's not worth it. I have a hema HC and Equl build on nezah too and its outstandingly fun. I wish they would incorporate that orb mechanic into other things as well as there's a lot of frames that deserve the level of quality he received. Keep enjoying the game and build "diversity".
And that's just your opinion 😉
Also, cute how you crown yourself as king of the endgame community. Always fun to see inflated egos in gaming forums.
-
5 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:
This. I use Nezha in Elite Onslaught and Arbitrations and all forms of high level content regularly and being one-shot killed has rarely been an issue. People use invulnerability in place of the skill, and survival techniques that all Frames have access to instead of using them in addition to those.
I've seen some of those extremist, niche builds in those videos and they are often effective but completely mind-numbing and involve no skill at all. What's there to brag about fighting level 900 enemies if they only did it by removing any challenge?
Those high levels are fun for some people because there is no margin of error. Mess up timing once and you're toast. Some people like a challenge...and to claim it doesn't require skill while pretending your EO or A somehow require skill is hilarious 😉
Also, that "extremist" build outdoes yours in both strength and duration, both important stats. So it's not just better as a tank.
-
5 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:
You expect me to respect the opinion of a person who sits in a corner for 3 hours doing the same thing, which is just the zenistar plus ancient healers, and trust he knows how to play the game? I dont think so. He does even yes the roll mechanic nor does he even make use of his other weapons. If I wanted to play a snooze fest of a 4 hour solo survival then I would play like him. Otherwise my Nezha build gets me to 4 hours in kuva and that id good enough
You do realize nothing you posted disproves this is the strongest tank for Nezha?
if you want a weaker setup with less strength/duration, you do you 😉
-
Just now, Autongnosis said:
@(PS4)Radehx I'm not sure tbh. I had quite a lot of fun at 2:30h in mot in an oberon and save for nullifiers and the occasional crewman blast at p9int blank range nothing was really one shotting me.
I think people tend to grossly overestimate enemy damage and forget about dodging, rolling and other maneuvres to avoid enemy fire partially or entirely, which work well enough even at really high levels (we're talking a few levels shy of 500 here).
Up to the 2.5-3hr mark is right around when the health/armor tank thing starts falling off quickly.
Also, don't forget, if you don't have to fit health/armor mods, you can better max your strength/duration which definitely benefits Nezha. Not saying you can't make the health tank work, it's simply not as strong and robs Nezha of (imo) too many slots to max more important stats.
Granted, good parkour skills make up for a lot. I mean...you CAN take Banshee into high levels solo too if you're a parkour god, but there are simply easier ways.
I just don't see a point in using the health tank if the invulnerability one works at all levels while also boosting my strength/duration better. Just requires a slight adjustment in play style.
-
36 minutes ago, Greenshockclaw said:
That's not really true though, invuln is only worth it at that level because any shot can kill you, so the best way to take damage is to just not take it at all. Otherwise you're better off with just having a lot of disposable ehp like inaros has because you'd have to eat a bunch of shots to even notice you're taking damage. Low level enemies can't do enough damage for you to consistently get the 3s invulnerability, so you end up dying more often because the small amounts of damage getting through are going directly to your unusually low health and shields.
That’s simply not true, the invulnerability tank works at all levels.
All you have to do is make sure not to get hit when Halo refreshes so you don’t accrue more than 3-5k points.
The health/armor tank only works up to sortie levels, the invulnerability tank works at all levels. As an added benefit, by not having to fit health/armor/energy mods, you can better max strength/duration, which makes Nezha even stronger.
-
11 minutes ago, Greenshockclaw said:
Zaw dagger with covert lethality is the strongest melee weapon at all levels, but for some reason, people still use objectively weaker weapons like the atterax and gram prime. I use a high strength pyroclastic flow meme build on nezha up to sortie level and haven't ever asked myself "am I not tanky enough?" Because I rarely even lose my 125 shields
That’s all fine. I’m just saying you aren’t using the best tank Nezha can use...which is a fact. If you only go up to sortie level, it doesn’t really matter anyway.
-
32 minutes ago, Fiewel said:
I see a video where someone is bunny hopping on the same spot for 15 minutes. Sometimes he rezzes his phoenix renewal bot.
Good thing that I dont do such things.
In other words, you high-five yourself for not using the most optimal/strongest tank. That doesn't make a lot of sense.
-
9 minutes ago, Greenshockclaw said:
Seems to me that the only place that build is even useful is at enemy levels you have to cheese to get to, and at that point invisibility or less gimmicky invulnerability is just better. Safe to say that nezha's 90% dr is more than enough for just about anything the game will throw at you under normal circumstances
Doesn't really matter...if it's the best tank at those levels, it's also the best tank at lower levels. But yes, up to sortie levels you'll be totally fine with the damage mitigation tank, it's just not the best tank possible.
-
33 minutes ago, Lucian_Adrion said:
If the 10% is killing you, then you dunno how to play Nezha. I preffer healt conversion cause I can literally keep the high armour grade at a near constant even into the 100s of levels. If done correctly, Nezha should never really lose to much hp. Futhermore, Nezha has one of the better ultimate cc in the game ans of course his firewalker and teleport.
I take it you don’t really play high level content. 10% of damage getting through will absolutely kill you and you will die waaaaaay before your halo points run out. In fact, stuff will one shot you despite 90% mitigation after less than 2hrs of MOT.
You build the strongest Nezha tank around his invulnerability against high level content, not damage mitigation,
Invulnerability will always beat mitigation, because it obviously scales much better. This dude explains it well:
It's simple math really. You have 2 ways to build his tank:
1) Around damage mitigation, which means 10% of damage gets through. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise eventually that 10% getting through will exceed your entire health pool at high levels.
2) Around his invulnerability. At this point, it's irrelevant whether enemies do 100 or 2m damage, invulnerability always kicks in. All you have to do is NOT get hit while halo points build up...you only want 3-5k of them, anything more is actually hurting your tank.
-
1 minute ago, Lucian_Adrion said:
Fun fact. Many people know this. Bonus fact. Many people will still build it. Even funner bonus fact. Tanky nezha best nezha and Health Conversion does that well.
The tankiest Nezha doesn't use any health/armor/energy mods 😉
Doesn't mean people can't use those mods, it's just not optimal or the tankiest setup for Nezha when fighting high level content. Those 90% damage reduction (or 99%) are totally useless if the 10% that does get through still kills you.
-
- Ash: Seeking Shuriken, viral/gas Zarr and/or Pox
- Nezha: No health/armor/energy mods, but with Rolling Guard. Dude can't die now.
- Ivara: Stealth murder queen with damage that never falls off...also gets double loot which makes it easy to keep up life support.
- Mag: Insane damage and effective CC.
- Octavia: Totally OP, but also super boring. You basically crouch yourself to happiness.
- Equinox: Duality setup with an acid shells Sobek or Riven Kohm. Speed holster is godly on this setup.
- Limbo: With rolling guard so you can fight nullifiers outside the bubble safely.
- Nidus: Can't die and has scaling damage.
About "endgame" Wisp
in General Discussion
Posted
Tougher enemies doing more damage...so yeah, more challenging than the other content. Whether you like it is totally irrelevant.