SmokinDice

(no aggression was taken, it is just very very upsetting when people set up strawman arguments, and argue against points you dont even make) So there are 2 options here, - either, I am beeing trolled very hard by you. - or I am trapped in a parallel dimension where people literally can not understand what I am saying. Im getting the feeling that I am stupid. like literally so dumb that I cant write english well enough so people can comprehend what I am writing down. Are you really telling me you dont understand my point? am I that bad at english? Literally everything you wrote here has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about.. "I can't play Ember RIGHT NOW, and I don't want to play Dark Souls because I can't use an Ultra Great Sword RIGHT NOW" when did I ever say that I or my friend want to START the game of warframe with ember? never once. but let me try one desperate final last time, using your example... and then one last final time try to insert the same logic into warframe. When you play darksouls, and you play the game and you finally after some time get to your Ultra great sword, AND THEN the game tells you, ah, sorry bro, you have to wait for 3 days before you can use it. THAT is the situation in warframe. It doesn't matter what game, it doesn't matter which monetization, nothing of what you have said in anyway affects anything of what my point is. and I dont want to hold a debate of what monetization system is fair or isn't. You are also Implying SO many things into what I am saying to fit a narrative no one is talking about, not me at least.. "Its fine to criticise it, and be against it, but then you are also criticising and arguing against larger structures, like FTP models in general." Just simply NO, just because you say I am also criticising whaterever you say doesn't make it true in any way, I was criticising exactly the thing I was talking about, nothing more, nothing less. It is simply a bad feeling, when you finally get your ultra greatsword and you are happy because you finally achieved a goal you set yourself and then the game just tells you wait 3 days. And now go ahead and tell a player in darksouls that he can just play on and finish content first and just use it in 3 days, why would he want to use the weapon he got right now, he can just keep playing and eventually use the greatsword in 3 days, it'll be alright. So how is it somehow in any way necessary that when you play darksoulsWarframe, and you play the game and you finally after some time get to your Ultra greatsword Ember, AND THEN the game tells you, ah, sorry bro, you have to wait for 3 days before you can use it. You did the work, you got there, you even farmed the materials, the gameplay loop of aquiring the cool thing is finished, yet you cannot use it. And my only entire point now is, that THIS simply is disheartening for a new player, and many new players quit because of that exact reason. Now you can argue what "many" is, but in my case alone it is 8 potential players lost. I'm done, I am never opening this thread again..

you are missing the point completely, who talks about any advantages? it is not about any ingame advantage, its about discovery. A new player wants to discover the game and try out many new things, this is the most exciting time for a new player, and the simple fact that they are restricted to a single frame for 3-4 days is just absurd, thats all. that is literally my only point. people quit because playing only a single frame when there are over 50 just may become boring even if the rest of the game is amazing, since you simply WANT to try out other stuff. Ofcourse I understand why it is here, but if you can not see how this is manipulative then I dont know what I can tell you. It really isn't a big deal, I agree completely, BUT it is a really really big deal in the first week of playing, thats all and to your first point, as I said I dont know the numbers, and I dont claim I know, but just because I dont know I cant bring up a point that is a valid argument against predatory practice? what are we talking about here? it is obviously just a nefarious system and a relic of old times, it simply should not exists in the first place, we just tolerate it because everything else is so fair. this is simply a very bad thing. (As to the guy above, you are completely missing the point. It has nothing to do to with all the things you need and want to do, please read what I wrote first here.) ... and then, they get rhino, and they have 2 diffrent warframes they can play and switch up the gameplay, that is my only point. Playing the same character over and over where the main drive of the game is that there are 50+ diffrent ones a player wants to play with diffrent characters early on, a game nowadays doesn't have 3-4 days to captivate a player. OFCOURSE the game has a lot to offer, but the frame you play during all this plays a huge role in the enjoyment of the game. And a new weapon doesn't feel as impactful as a whole new frame, especially the early weapons you just buy to level. The content is great, but the character you traverse this content with needs to be the one the person wants to play or work towards, and when they get there, and are happy and then need to wait 3 days is JUST simply disappointing, espeically if that warframe is not rhino and something that might come up a little later. you did all that work for nothing and have to wait 3 days instead of beeing able to paly your new cool thing. Personally I often log in nowadays and dont play more than one mission with a single frame, I constantly switch them up, try out new things and stuff, thats why I love the game. All I ever do nowadays is log on, buy or craft the cool new thing, play with it for an hour, go "heh cool" and go back out.. so yeah, all I do is "build new thing". I think I made my point pretty clear now, and I guess thats all I have to say about this topic, alot of you seem to disagree, thats fine for you guys, I just hope that DE at some point will see how bad this is. Or maybe it isn't I dont know.

I dont think that option 1: pay money option 2: pay money option 3: leave is a healthy state for motivating new players to give your game a shot. If you honestly think that, than you are already lost in the deep swamp of predatory financial systems. I dont think anyone needs to argue that warframe is one of THE fairest games when it comes to monetization. BUT there are still some old fashioned predatory systems still in game, that maybe were acceptable 10 years ago, but that is no longer the case for the new audience nowadays, that just a fact when you look at all the other games, old or new and what they have changed. Even the most predatory games on the market literally BOMBARD new players with free stuff over and over again in their first few weeks or even month so they keep playing. And only later reveal their true ugly face. Some other guy mentioned Black Dessert for example, I can play that game right now and get to an incredibly high level with the absolut best gear you can have in a month or just a couple of weeks for free, where 5-6 years ago it took you months or years to get a character to the same level. They hook you first, and THEN want you to pay. Warframe right now, even though we are a loyal fanbase, fails to capture a new audience.. and again, one of the biggest issues are the many roadblocks you get thrown into your face right at the start of your gaming experience with the game, when I start a new game and I love it, I want to play it, but when the game tells me no, go play something else now for 3 days, thats just a bad decission. And I also dont care how much money DE actually makes by people beeing stupid enough to pay for this speed up, heck I think even I did that once or twice, but no one can tell me in their right mind that having people beeing literally paywalled on their first 3 days of playing is a good idea. people spend money on skins, all the costumezation options, just warframe and weapon slots as I learned, I bet even forma, potatoes, just plat to trade with.. so many good and okay and fair things. But for time? no, thats just not cool, and especially so in the beginning. There is a reason why so many games and mmos have catch up mechanics that let you bypass some old restrictions later on so you can more comfortably get to the same level as others players, and to think people would then faster lose interested in just such a huge misconseption.. let the player play the game at their own pace, not be restrcted by how long the company wants you to play your game.. Not only is there enough content that these restrictions dont make any sense anymore, but also just from a finacial point of view I can not believe that so many people buy these speed ups that this makes more money that 20% or whatever more players would have brought if they would have been playing for a month instead of 2 days. Obviously I could just be flat out wrong about this, but thats just what I believe, and unless DE says something about it we will never know... I am even okay with DE time gating NEW content since they dont want you to rush through their new cool thing in a day and be frustrated that they have to wait another 3 month for the next cool thing, I get that.. but time gating the first 3 days of a 10 year old game is just unheard of. and even IF you want to keep build times, at least make some mechanism that allows new players to bypass the first couple of build times, that way they can at least hook new players into the game instead of just losing them.. For example Ordis could maybe have a new smart-ass line of dialouge.. some thing like: "hey operator! I see you are building your first new warfame, how.. EXCITING(creepy ordis voice).. normally it take some time to build a warframe, but since this is your first one, I overloaded some.. UNNECESSARY.. systems so you can try it out right now! oh and dont worry the ship will be... FIIIINE.." with a quick rumbling and flicker of light for fun. And BOOM problem solved.

first of all whataboutism never solves anything, we can talk about multiple issues at once. do I agree there are more serious problems? ofcourse. but this is still sadly a huge issue, at least from what I have observed myself, and statistics say that my friends are probably not the only ones turned down by this from the game. also, crafting multiple things really doesnt solve anything.. yes you can have multiple things beeing crafted and then enjoy them and the wait doesn't feel as long and you have multiple options.. but thats still AFTER the inital wait of 24 hours for a weapon or a wopping 3 days for a warframe (which is the biggest issue I can tell) even if you get 10 new warframes after your first three days, you still have to wait three days AFTER you started building it.. many people nowadays just dont have the patience for this kind of predatory time gating. they see this and hop out of the game. I wouldn't want to wait 3 days for no reason nowadays when I start a new game just to play with a cool new thing. I have two seperate exact same examples happing at diffrent times. I had a friend who watched me, and wanted to play and he wanted ember, we played the game, we got to farm ember, we started building his ember.. we played the next day, and he was unhappy with his warframe and wanted to play with ember, but he couldn't he still had to wait for 2 days.. so we stopped palying that day, and he never played again, because the next day he didn't wanted to start the game because he knew he couldnt play ember anyway.. and that was the moment that the game lost a player.. he moved on. And the EXACT same thing happaned with another friend who wanted to play saryn, and it played out nearly identical. ofcourse I told them you can all get them for free but it takes some time, and they enjoyed the game, but when you start playing for a reason and you get it, but you still cant have it, this is just demoralising.

Duviri might actually be a good mention here, it definitly is a way to play the game, lets you farm some cool stuff early on, and has some decent gameplay variety. Sadly the train already left the station for my friendgroup, so I can never find out myself if a new player might enjoy this mode during the wait time.

that is an issue I wasn't even aware of.. I might need to start a fresh account at some point and try this out. but shouldn't you at the start maybe just have 1 slot for a weapon you might get and like, and have another just to level up stuff and immediatly sell since it is trash anyway? like all the bratons and latos you all just buy for credits anyway? or just sell everything ever untill you get the nataruuk? isn't that realtively early to get now? but for warframe slots I definitly agree that you should buy them.

but do you want more people to leave? or more people to stay? you can leave any game at any point, thats true. But when there is a single dealbreaker obviously sitting in the face of SO many players and VERY OFTEN the first big red flag a player encounters and several youtubers and 8 of my friends alone quit because of this, I think there is room to improve the game here. and this is JUST my friends, without this issue they had 8 times more income from my group, what about dozens of other groups were a single person cant get more people into the game because of this restriction.. maybe another solution is the implementation of a "foundry booster" something that just has charges, which all the whales can have filled up all the time to instantly build stuff, and you can just buy booster charges for that 50 plat.. and then give new players starting out already 10 charges for free so that they can built and experiment in their first 3 days. to give another example, I regularly play the path of exile leagues, and I know the game is structured totally diffrent, but I often play that game for just a week, maybe two, or sometimes even just three days.. just imagine the people at GGG say, yeah you can make a new character for your league, but you have to wait 3 days... people would just quit that game yet again. xd my point is, creating builds, creativity, testing out new cool gear IS THE POINT of the game, and when you are limitied to a single frame in your first 3 to 4 days it is just SUCH a disapointment.. Im a grindy guy and I can stand waiting, but many people just aren't. and if you want them to leave in their first 3 days of playing and dont even want them to experience the CORE drive of the game and make them wait for it, I think this is just devastating for a game.. (play gta and start with a honda civic, but to built a key for another car, it takes three days and you cant rob a car on the street and are stuck to your one car. would you play that?) My issue here is the REAL day 1-3 gaming experience.. and I bet alot of people are lost here, and MANY MANY of them actually liked the game and are just turned of by any time gating they approach on their first or second day of playing. you really only have several minutes or maybe an hour to catch a customer, and some that stay may still be on the fence, and such a simingly minor detail as this could just swing their needle down to "nope, not dealing with this".

really? wow okay, that is so suprising for me to hear that everyone is just okay with this. Im not trying to argue here, it is just that I have a completely diffrent view on this, maybe because I am previously damaged by the fact that this was the sole reason ever people quit on the game in my bubble. I mean, now that you mention it, the first color set could 100% be free (I even never bought it lol), and slot really is another point I never thought of.. but you know why? because my friends never got to this issue in the first place since they never even built their second warframe to begin with. xd And I myself have enough plat from playing that I always just buy them and never game them a second thought, but it is true that this is probably another big issue.

I think this is very easy for us to say, ofcourse we dont mind, as you said we basically have everything and have other stuff to do, but a new player doesn't. lets go with an absolutly stupid and absurd example. AFK journey. I downloaded it just because there was so much commercials for it even from youtubers I like, so I gave it a try. I played it, I had a lot of fun, it was a cool game, I got some characters from one tribe and had fun with them, so on day 3 I wanted to try some other characters and tribes, since I already became kinda stale, BUT to get them for free I basically had to wait 4 days until day 7, because I couldn't get enough characters from that other tribe and only would get one on day 7. so what did I do? I quit and never opened the game again, why would I wait for 4 or 3 days just to keep playing with what I want. Ofcourse if I already had 6 copies of each character I wouldn't mind, but when you COULD already have the thing you want, but for some predatory unneeded reason you cant have it, thats just a bad game in your mind. And while ofcourse afk journey a universe apart in terms of predatory gamba bullsh*t, for a new player it still can feel the same when they first want to build a cool new weapon or frame in warframe. and I am TRULY sad that I cant get any of my friends to play this game for this single reason. I literally had 8 guys seperatley quit on the game because 3 days to capture an audience while they have nothing new exciting to do is just a stupid idea.. more maps and missions is cool and all, but when you are forced to play the same guy for your first 4 days (which are some of the most exciting when youre new) you just lose interest in 2024.

you are already time gated by the 24 hour wait between every mastery rank challange, which already happens frequently in the beginning and already time gates you for at least a week early on. you are then also time gated by a daily cap of standing you can earn per faction, which is where most of the progress in game is made nowadays anyway, which is yet another time gate AND your standing cap is even lower on lower mastery rank. So there already IS enough times you have to wait to play the game, and waiting is NEVER fun and it does not build anticipation, not nowadays, people just move on, and thats just the reality.

Hey "new" DE, It is once again a moment in time where yet another new creator came in and played your game. I was looking through my starting page on Ytube and found this guy called legendary drops. He made a great video about warframe and had a really great time with it, as expected, but the moment he found out that he has been playing for 20 hours and then to get a new warframe, even after he happiliy farmed for all the materials and blueprints, he needed to wait for 12+72 hours JUST to play a new frame he instantly was disheartened and understandibly so. As a new player you want to unlock new things, test stuff out, try everything and unlock everything. There is content in this game to keep you happy for LITERAL thousands of hours.. there really is NO NEED to timegate players anymore with these uneccessary things that are just not up to current days standards of warframe. To be honest this was always the worst thing about the game, and ESPECIALLY for the purpose of getting new players into the game. I mean the idea is kinda cute, that things need to be build, but then change it so it is just a cute vanity thing that takes maybe 30 seconds, 1 minute, or hell let the warframe be build for 10 minutes so the player maybe stays around for another hour ingame. But, literally EVERY SINGLE FRIEND I tried to bring into the game, quit the moment he had to wait for 72 or even just 24 hours. we live in a fastpace world now, and a new player, playing your game for a day, and then be told, AH maybe skip the next day, or better yet skip the next three days is just a dealbreaker and I can understand why. If I build a new cool thing, I want to play with it, if I enjoy the game I want to keep playing and I want to use my new toys, if you make me wait for no reason I might log off and never log back in, which is exactly what all of my friends did, or others might try to keep playing for another day while waiting and just get bored because they want new things to try out but cant have any.. So please, for the sake of the games future, please change this ancient system and let new players enjoy the game. Let time gating players be a thing of the past have a nice weekend everyone.

Hey "new" DE, It is once again a moment in time where yet another new creator came in and played your game. I was looking through my starting page on Ytube and found this guy called legendary drops. He made a great video about warframe and had a really great time with it, as expected, but the moment he found out that he has been playing for 20 hours and then to get a new warframe, even after he happiliy farmed for all the materials and blueprints, he needed to wait for 12+72 hours JUST to play a new frame he instantly was disheartened and understandibly so. As a new player you want to unlock new things, test stuff out, try everything and unlock everything. There is content in this game to keep you happy for LITERAL thousands of hours.. there really is NO NEED to timegate players anymore with these uneccessary things that are just not up to current days standards of warframe. To be honest this was always the worst thing about the game, and ESPECIALLY for the purpose of getting new players into the game. I mean the idea is kinda cute, that things need to be build, but then change it so it is just a cute vanity thing that takes maybe 30 seconds, 1 minute, or hell let the warframe be build for 10 minutes so the player maybe stays around for another hour ingame. But, literally EVERY SINGLE FRIEND I tried to bring into the game, quit the moment he had to wait for 72 or even just 24 hours. we live in a fastpace world now, and a new player, playing your game for a day, and then be told, AH maybe skip the next day, or better yet skip the next three days is just a dealbreaker and I can understand why. If I build a new cool thing, I want to play with it, if I enjoy the game I want to keep playing and I want to use my new toys, if you make me wait for no reason I might log off and never log back in, which is exactly what all of my friends did, or others might try to keep playing for another day while waiting and just get bored because they want new things to try out but cant have any.. So please, for the sake of the games future, please change this ancient system and let new palyers enjoy the game. Let time gating players be a thing of the past have a nice weekend everyone. EDIT: oops, I just realized I posted in the wrong section sorry

Sadly you completely missed the mark here. This was THE opportunity to finally, easily and elegantly adress the main issue with the games gameplay... health survivability. You buffed Shieldgating, and gave players EVEN MORE reason to go with shieldgating. Yet a vast majority of the playerbase thinks health tanking already is JUST trash. And while I dont agree with that mindset and tend to play many health tanks successfully and find it much more enjoyable, there is NO denying that health and armor become almost irrelevant on their own in higher levels. Currently there are two states you as a player can be in in warframe, alive at 100% health or dead. there is no inbetween, there is no gameplay in managing your health, there is no sense of danger, no sense of "oh damn my health got low better heal up". You are either set up to never die, or you get oneshot. And one of the main reasons I haven't played much in the last 2 years is that this issue has become more and more extreme to a level where even I fall back to shieldgating more often than I like to admit. and it is so funny and sad a the same time to me that you write "This outcome is a significant buff, which is not the intention of this system change. ".. no.. because JUST increasing it by this tiny amount doesn't even qualify as a buff, it would be a meaningless increase.. 100% more basehealth across the board wouldn't even change much in high levels.. this is such an unelegant and visually ugly solution.. why 370? 300 was a clean number, 370 is just a random number to fit your outcome. AT LEAST make it an elegant 400 and dont even think about it as beeing a buff but rather just visually pleasing and non-random. The update could have come with this exact change "Rank 30 Excalibur now receive an extra 1,320 Health from max rank Vitality, resulting in a total health stat of 1,600." and health tanking from this point onward would at least feel somewhat comparable to shieldgating. Now I know, and you know, that the real issue is every scaling in warframe right now, but with the bandaid status we are in until a complete rework of all defences and health and damage scaling issues. Just flat out increasing our health by about 100% would at least show that you care for anything other than shieldgating and having 90% DR. For everyone reading this who doesn't understand how math works and might think Im insane. increasing health from 740 to 1600 on excal is a 116% effective health increase for 216% effective health. But 90% DR from ANY of the bandaid abilities actually gives you 1000% effective health! and this is the BASELINE the game requires you to have to live for more than a second right now. 95% DR, what some abilities have, dont make you 5% more surviable, compared to a 90% DR it DOUBLES your effective health from 1000% to 2000%, the higher you go, the more insane it gets. So by "just" a tiny tiny increase of double base health you actually dont even change that much.... and yes, ofcourse together WITH DR it would also result in turning 90% DR right now into basically the same as 95% DR, BUT STILL even with this you die in 2 second.... so actually giving you a bigger base health pool would AT LEAST visually help preparring you for the damage you recieve and MAYBE finally enable a sense of danger and actual health managing again, instead of just beein a binary system of dead or alive... I'd MUCH rather see a high level excalibur at 3000 health, with DR abilities capped at 60% (7500 effective health) instead of a 740 health excalibur with 90% DR (7400 effective health). and according to what I just said before.. we would honestly still need more DR to make health tanking a viable alternative to shieldgating with the games current state.. non the less, this change would at least result in a healthbar you can see go up and down maybe.. ofcourse this would need testing, but still, health managing is a GOOD THING in a video game.. Warframes needs this again... EDIT: Also, you just set the best example yourself with the release of kullervo. Just look at how well recieved he is now. why is he SO much fun now? because you have REAL gameplay with him, you actually have to manage his health. And how is this possible? well because he has 20.000 health. THATS what it takes to have compelling gameplay again, a healthpool that you can visually see go down and do something against. yet there are still people who argue and think he is squishy, and yes, he still dies within seconds if not careful. He is the prime example that we need more health as a bandaid until we get a full rework of the entire system. Make Health matter again. And deep inside myself I hope Kullervo was a test for you to see if people like more health.. if so, the answer is YES! YES we need more health! (for now)

FINALLY!!!! Just, THANK YOU! NOW, can we also have a HUD for a 2024 game? this 1995 hud doesn't work anymore on 4k