[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

I'm not sure you know how it's implemented in a lot of games either. There's a long history of games using account bound seeds, with some players having seeds that are hands down terrible. I as well have noticed in my playtime that some people are consistently lucky and others are not, which is indicative of a account bound seed. Not to mention DE is a small team, I doubt they used any pseudo-random number generator other than the engine default, nor would they have probably bothered (or know how) to test if it was working fairly. I'm a statistician, I've been trying to collect data on this for a while, but the void tables keep changing and even then, when I do know the drop chances on a void table I'm still only able to sample an interval of the PRNG's output. Not to mention the huge amount of keys I need to have just to collect the data.

this.

thank you.

i have observed this phenomenon of some players being overall lucky most of the time and others being unlucky and the account bound seed system is the only way i can explain it.

if this system is in place in warframe i say it's bad and needs to go

 

alternatively be open about the seeding factors so i at least know what to do about it. after all i can understand they need to make money somehow.

that being said i think they are doing well enough to not need this kind of thing in place

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

I've had plenty of times going through missions, such as Spy or Void, getting through the map and going "Oh I've gotten a decent amount of R5 cores and other rare mods!" and then get Cores or Forma or Keys as a reward and nothing good.

I've also gone through and gotten crap drops through the match and gotten one of the rarer pieces at the end.

I've also had plenty of times of the opposite that match your observation.

But do those out-number the others so drastically that its obvious and actually related?  Hek no.

All of those situations happen roughly equally.

I've also gotten mediocre drops and rewards throughout.

Simple fact is:

The human brain is hard-wired to find patterns in things.  Even where they don't exist.

And that's what is happening here.

You're having bad luck and trying to figure out the reason.  Your brain is supplying these "patterns" and confirmation bias.

not all rare mods are really rare "power throw" is a bad sign for example

 

i agree with the pattern way of thinking which is why this is all a theory. and i'm asking you all for your experience to get a better picture

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

Where's my tinfoil hat????!! WHERE!?!?!?!?!?! Oh god, I just flipped a coin 4 times and it ALWAYS CAME UP TAILS!! The government must be rigging coins by bank account. Seriously folks, random is random, you can parade out anecdotal experiences as "evidence" all you want but it's pointless and proves nothing. Anecdotal fallacies do not prove anything. Someone get a copy of the code for drops showing a value for "account RNG multiplier" and you've got proof. Until then, "I ran so many runs and never got anything, then I joined a friend and we got it in the first run!!" is meaningless. How do you know you wouldn't have gotten that part on your next solo run? Here you go for anecdotal hyperbole. Been running missions for the Lex P receiver for over a week, I only get keys, cores, and the same Ankyros part over and over. I did over 3 dozen ODD runs to get the Ember P BP before it was gone, never saw it once. Sounds like my account has a "bad seed" huh? Yet last night I did one run of T3Sab.....and got the Trinity P Chassis. Random is just random, and there's nothing that says you can't just plain have bad luck with random.

it seems to me to be something other than random because across a long time played i noticed certain patterns. like if the mods dropped by mobs are rare you will probably get a rare reward as well and vice versa.

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

The problem with this is that the only way for this to be even remotely true is if you can consistently reproduce this effect. Which I can already personally say is not the case(or rather if it were I would have been affected by this along with my mates, which isn't the case in the slightest). There is no reason to believe anything fishy is going on until you have consistent proof of this besides "it feeling fishy". Nothing you mentioned can qualify as an even remotely adequate sample size.

 

So far it just comes across as conspiracy theory, aka making dots where there are none simply "because", while lacking any form of objective proof. Correlation doesn't equal causation, if plat actually caused anything to happen, we would have seen this happen consistently over the years. Unless you can provide actual evidence of this you have nothing. Your experience proves nothing since it's all completely plausible within a RNG system, and a lot of experiences counter yours. 

i can prove my bad "luck" if you want common cores, pressure point and common sentinel mods run a mission with me as host anytime.

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

Actually, you can have consistent bad luck and then suddenly good luck after spending plat etc. Thats how pseudo-RNG (kinda) and real RNG work.

I repeat: Correlation does not always equal causation. 

Its, potentially fishy yes, but then how do you account for all the people with the opposite experience?

I know of examples where spending money/plat has not alleviated streaks of bad RNG.

I've personally had terrible RNG after buying a fair amount of plat myself.

You would need much more solid evidence for your theory to hold any weight.

 

My point is that for as many examples of your situation there are just as many contradictory examples.

i don't have evidence for any of this it's just my extensive experience. and tbh i think it's more tied to that promo code i used rather than money spent.

what i'm trying to determine here is if there's a seed/account system in place and if so i call it unfair and wish it be changed to something better for everyone.

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

I guess that would be one way of reconciling it.  

 

But still, it's easier to just use the default RNG and not seed it explicitly.  You get the same statistical result with much less work.  Typically, unless they're working at the operating system level, the only time a programmer explicitly seeds a pseudo-RNG is when they want to be able to repeat the exact same random sequence more than once.  There are times that's necessary, but this is not one of them.

i agree with you there except the results i have in all this time support the seed/account theory

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

I don't think you understand how RNG works.

The thing about RNG (not that its ever truly 100% balanced) is that you are just as likely to have consistent horrible luck as you are consistent good luck, or even a decent mix.

Correlation does not always equal causation, not to mention you would need a much larger sample size and sufficient supporting evidence, which you don't have, to make such a conclusion even remotely more accurate.

 

By contrast my luck with RNG (I'm mostly solo so no changes in seeds are relevant) regularly fluctuate from good to band and all thing inbetween.

How does that fit into your theory?

you can't have consistent bad luck most of the time and precisely one week of amazing luck coinciding with a promo code and plat spending and call it random ... its fishy at the very least

 

that's why i made this topic to get a larger sample size with other player's experience

 

maybe there are tiers of seeds? with one end being out of luck and the other basking in all it's glory? maybe if you don't play so much it's not as noticeable?

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

time played 90d, 3h, 29m ... is that enough to notice it? it was for me

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

Over a long enough timeline, a pseudo-RNG seed does not affect the probability of any particular outcome.  It just affects the exact *ordering* of outcomes.  This ordering may include some "hot" spots and "cold" spots, but over a long enough timeline the math says they have to even out.  Note that "long enough timeline" is important enough that I said it twice.

 

So even if each player does have their own persistent RNG seed, everyone still gets the same drop rate in the long run.  However, I highly doubt everyone has their own RNG seed.  If they did then how would you reconcile four different persistent RNG seeds on any given drop?

long enough timeline yeah ... sure ... i got all the things eventually but i had to grind for them way more then my "lucky" friends did and that's the part i consider to be unfair and in need of imprevement

 

what do you mean by four seeds? only the host's seed matters for drops

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

Ya how did you come to this conclusion? Also I don't think you understand how the rng seeding works...

i came to this conclusion after extensive playing. the seed for my account is not good. whenever i host or play solo i get crap (common mods, drops, resources, etc).

if i join one of my lucky seed friend we always get the good stuff

a couple of weeks ago i used a promo code for 2x resource drops and spent about 1000p on various things in the game. my luck totally changed for a week all across the board and i got rare resources from extractos daily (this after using them nonstop since they came out and maybe getting them 1/mo), getting rare mods in every mission, rare prime parts almost every time i ran a void mission (got almost all the new prime parts in less than 10 runs each). the "luck" change was drastic and consistent all across the board.

my testing was done by playing the game for a long time and has shown me it's definitely not random or "luck"

[Rng Seed Bound To Account?]

hi. I'll start by saying that i'm playing and obviously love this game since open beta started and experimented with RNG and how it's applied along the years.

 

Unfortunately i came to the following conclusions:

the RNG layers that determine drops (resources, mods, mission rewards, parts, kubrows etc) are based on a seed which is applied per account, before everything else. that's why some players are always lucky while others are unlucky most of the time.

all the drops in the mission are generated by the host so if the host has a good seed you get good drops if not you don't

all the mission rewards (in endless missions at least) are generated at the start of the mission

 

I think this system is very unfair and the reason why we see so many players complaining about the grind (grind can be fun when u get nice things, not fun when u get crap all the time)

 

can i get some input from other players about their experience with how RNG works in warframe and maybe if it's possible to change it to a better system that is more fair overall? thank you

 

an official explanation of how it works and is applied would be awesome but i don't dare hope for that one since DE have dodged questions like this in streams

 

this is all just my theory based on my experience in game. time played (90d, 3h,29m). i'm hoping to get a better picture based on other player's time as well

 

p.s. WTS tin foil 5p/sqm

[Nothing Says "toxicity" Quite Like Archwing Events/content]

this event is exactly the same as last years event with the exception of the lack of being able to use powers in the fomorian core area.

bugs in general are part of this conversation because of how many people dislike archwing. that is what this discussion was about.

 

I was stating facts about why people don't like archwing and because you like it, you came to defend it.

i like the game and dislike bs arguments. i called out your bs claims about archwing being "riddled with bugs" making it sound like it's unplayable when the truth is that in it's current state it's no different from any other part of the game bugs and all (bit more grindy tho). you need to put in the time to make it work and move around to not get shot down.

[Nothing Says "toxicity" Quite Like Archwing Events/content]

The picture is for you to see that I have leveled every bit of archwing stuff so you can see that I know what I am talking about.

 

5 times I had archwing crash on me, 2 of them were BSOD, the other three times were crashes to desktop.

 

I have gotten stuck reviving people

I have had enemies spawn so far away that the game aborts the mission because I flew out of the mission area.

I've gotten stuck in rocks,

stuck in buildings,

stuck with my camera zoomed out

stuck with my camera zoomed in

stuck gettting no energy,

stuck with gettting no ammo refilled which its suppose to do

stuck with no revives

 

you have experienced very little or rather next to nothing of what other people have experienced.

 

when I call it buggy I mean its buggy.

have you experienced any of those things in the current event? or since the latest archwing overhaul? can't u tell they are actively developing the game? what the hek are you talking about? past bugs are not the object of this conversation

 

i expect warframe to have bugs (especially new content) since it's beta and we are the ones doing most of the testing.

sounds to me u don't like archwing mode and that's ok but it's in the game and it's here to stay so you can either help improve it (like you seem to have) or you can wait for more fixes which i assure you will come. but bashing it with false claims is not the way to go about this

[Nothing Says "toxicity" Quite Like Archwing Events/content]

1 yes it is and i have the stats to prove it

 

I you see all those weapons and gear? I grinded my butt off for every single one of them. I have encountered so many bugs doing so I gave up sending bug reports.

 

yeah and thanks to player submitted reports like yours and testing this beta game gets better but those pics don't prove anything about the current state of archwing pertaining to bugs. i'm not denying warframe/archwing has them but at this time it's far from being "riddled with bugs". in this event i have encountered only 2 bugs, one that got me stuck in something because i ran into it too fast (which is not specific to archwing) and a visual bug on the spinning parts ot the core. that's it ... nothing gamebreaking. level up your gear and mods, don't forget to move and you can play archwing just fine

[Nothing Says "toxicity" Quite Like Archwing Events/content]

Archwing is often regarded as the most frustrating thing in the game to play. especially since:

 

1. Archwings are not equipped to get powerful enough to handle high level enemies in a 360 degree enviroment

(this comes down to health of the warframes, the powers they have, how much damage they deal etc)

 

2. The Grind for archwing parts is worse than the void.

(most of the parts for the goodish weapons are locked in high level missions, to get to those missions and pass through them you must have high leveled gear. to get that gear leveld you have to do high level mission and it goes into a circular loop)

 

3. the majority of weapons in archwing simply are not up to the task of killing high level enemies.

(both grineer and corpus have armor this time around. one was already bad enough but now that corpus have both armor and shields they are the worst)

 

4. Archwing is filled to the brim with bugs.

(its more buggy than most EA games in alpha and thats the truth)

1. not true once you level up your gear and ... u know ... don't be a sitting duck

 

2. i agree that the grind to get certain archwing gear is too much (looking at you missions with A CHANCE to drop a part .. meaning u do it and get nada many times)

 

3. again comes down to leveling up your gear and mods

 

4. filled to the brim is an over exaggeration over 9000! tbh i noticed very few archwing bugs if any (very few relating to pathing)

[So Let's Make A Clear Point On Afk System]

Standing still, never use anything not even shooting or using a different power? Whoa never knew THAT was the way to play the game, pop bubble do nothing.....THAT is indeed ELITE gaming. Wait what happens if you turn around, move a step do you lose the game? Does your elaborate strategy falter if you move a muscle?

 

I don´t think so!  So try again to come up with a "strategy" that demands of you to stand perfectly still for any amount of time that is not pure bullcrap. 

 

The thing is what you guys call strategy means, pop bubble, alt tab, do something else, alt tab back, pop bubble again. and that strategy gets rightfully punished so do not give us any more ridiculous strategies as excuses. 

 

No strategy DEMANDS of you to stay 100% perfectly still, only afking demands that since you are occupied with something else. 

i was tagged many times afk while using different powers and shooting guns but standing still. the only thing that counts for afk is movement. if i get tagged multiple times afk when i'm actually not afk and playing the game while leechers that have a script moving them every 30s get away from it there's a big problem. this system has impacted my gaming experience negatively on multiple occasions on missions that require you to defend an objective.

[So Let's Make A Clear Point On Afk System]

like above posters pointed out the system doesn't work for it's intended purpose, leechers can easily circumvent it, instead in only serves to punish legit players and strategies. it definitely needs to go or at least be made into a toggle accessible to the host.

[Metallic Colors]

Yeah, PBR consists of four channels: Albedo, Roughness, Metalness, and Color Masks. Coloration is done by overlaying a color in the shape of one of the masks over the albedo map. Metallic/Matte palettes would be applying different colors to the roughness and metalness maps.

 

This is what the texture changes look like on the last example I gave:

 

Red is metalness, blue is roughness. The green is the albedo, which has to be split out for the overlay process because coloration isn't monochromatic. In this case it is becoming orange because the red is increased, the blue is reduced, and the green is staying the same. This turns a non-metallic rough surface into a surface that is metallic and smooth.

thank you for the in-depth explanation but it's my understanding that not all the gear has pbr implemented yet so is my assumption that this can only be applied after pbr correct? is so then like i said i'm not sure it's possible just yet but only after they finish updating the content with pbr.

[Metallic Colors]

I have been campaigning for this for a long time. It is completely identical to the coloration overlays implementation-wise.

it is? if this is the case all my +1 i would pay anything for this

[Metallic Colors]

we all want this badly but unfortunately i think it has more to do with pbr treatment than colour packs. i mean u can get metallic look on stuff that has the metal layer on already. could this be applied to colour packs? it would be totally amazing but i'm not sure it's possible.

[Trinity Overhaul (If I Were God-Emperor For A Day)]

ok but balance is not absolute either in a game such as this and still falls under personal preference imho. your idea of balance may differ from mine and tbh for a PVE game fun is way more important than balance let's not forget that. sometimes the lack of balance is exactly what makes it fun. ill stop now because i don't have anything more to add on the subject at this time

[Trinity Overhaul (If I Were God-Emperor For A Day)]

i agree that DE is trying to make all skills on a frame useful and get rid of 1 trick ponies which i personally agree with (trin is far from a 1trick pony btw)  but at the same time realize it ruins other player's fun that want to specialize a frame for one ability. hopefully they can do it and please both camps like the have with past reworks. not like the gmag nerf i mean which tuned it into a totally useless not worth the slot thing.

 

my main point here is that if u don't enjoy having ev trin on the team nobody is forcing you to. however asking for a drastic rework that would break this ability will ruin many players idea of fun please keep that in mind and try to be fair.

[Trinity Overhaul (If I Were God-Emperor For A Day)]

I really wish people would stop using consumables as an excuse for a skill being broken. Consumables have a cost...the cost being actual materials. Make EV cost 10k per use and I'll say it's balanced. 

ev build also has a cost. like i explained you need to use trade offs in the build and sacrifice one player to effectively be a battery for the team. if that is no cost idk what is

[Trinity Overhaul (If I Were God-Emperor For A Day)]

Yup. It's in Beta. Things will be changed. Deal with it. 

 

But I'm really not. EV restores a ridiculous amount of energy instantly. Toggle ability drains(Outside peacemaker) are extremely low making it so one EV will likely fill their entire energypool

 

Generally good casters are separated from bad ones with how well they manage their energy(Or cooldowns depending on the game). EV removes that. Could you imagine a game where you have inf energy and 0 cooldowns on people's most powerful abilities? It's kind of ridiculous. 

you can already fill your energy pool with restores. i think your real issue is with efficiency in this case. anyway there are tradeoffs both for maxed efficiency and for using ev trin in a team already. you want a more tactical game which warframe is not with the amount and scaling of enemies we have. i get it tbh that's exactly the game i imagined when i started playing with open beta but it seems it's not what the devs intended. the great thing about warframe tho is the sandbox attributes it has so if you want certain limitations for your game you can use and impose them for yourself/team without affecting the whole game for other players in a negative way.

 

i want to say no to proposed changes of making stationary targets and not killing them a reward. we already had that a while ago and it was reworked to what we have now due to popular remand and slowing down gameplay

[Trinity Overhaul (If I Were God-Emperor For A Day)]

you are really exaggerating there with 5+ mins from 1 ev. also ev trin build is not good for solo play

 

what about players that like to play casters and not so much weapons? F#*$& them right?