VampirePirate
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Posts posted by VampirePirate
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9 minutes ago, DrBorris said:
1) Well, it does. Once you get your top tier guns and rank up your mods there is nothing left to do, thus this thread. Is it so ridiculous to make a thread about maybe, just maybe, adding stuff to do once you complete the content. Because that is what content is, stuff to be completed. And we have all seen the rises and falls of population when new content is released, an "end-game" is stuff to do once you complete the content between content drops. Massive swells and drops in population is not nearly has healthy as a stable population.
2) I did propose an idea, but I did not start this topic to push my idea so when people ignored the "point" I just deleted my idea from the OP (see the first comment who rants about PvP, ignoring everything else in the thread about end-game). And I did kind of talk about solutions, looking at what makes PvP games so successful with "end-game" content (not meaning Warframe should have PvP, but why do PvP games live so long and how can Warframe emulate that).
3) And what the hell is it with you insisting I should quit the game? Not once did I say anything about me being burnt out or not having fun, because I still do to an extent. I don't play nearly as much as I used to because there is not that much to do. I haven't gotten burnt out because I have paced myself. Should this really be the "end-game" of Warframe? Quitting?
4) Oh, and DE has never said they don't want an end-game, they have said they do want end-game many times. What they have said is they don't want ONE end-game. The want the end of the game to still be playing all of the content they have created. Right now there is no reason to do so, the only thing to do is quit because, unfortunately, Warframe has a pretty rigid end for most people. There are of course those that play just for fun, which I kinda-sorta do, but obviously a large portion don't as seen as the swells and drop offs correlating with major updates.
TL;DR: We all feel the same way. We want to have fun. We want more content. They know that. What do you do in the meantime, before new content comes? What is the solution?
Okay. I numbered your paragraphs so my answers can correspond accordingly.
1) if you can prove to me that warframe and any other game like it has an ending, I'll believe you, but you can't. If it were a single player game that i can use without the internet, sure it has an ending, but this is an online game. it was designed for you to continue playing, because that is how DE will possibly make money especially with it being free to play. Because you feel like there is nothing else left to do, that does not mean this game has an ending. It means you are bored of the game. It has nothing to do with top-tar weapons. Even low ranked players can have those top-tier weapons, so that can't possibly be the definition of endgame. Also I know full and well what "endgame" means. I don't need you to explain it to me. These so-called "swells" in population, the coming and going of players when content arrives is natural and in no way supports your argument All it does is confirm the people are bored with the game, but did not give up on the game entirely. They simply did what i suggested all along. Take a break or quit.
2) You chose to delete portions of your topic, portions that could be helpful, then you can't fault people for misunderstanding you. It also turned your thread into a complaint. That's won't help without solutions. I'm sorry people are "ignoring" you. I chose not to rant. No point in doing so. The reason why PVP game live so long is because they are PVP to begin with. When you defy that and put PVP into a PVE game, as i have seen happen so many times it is ridiculous, then that means there is something wrong. Devs are acting out of desperation to please everyone and get people to come back. The result, PVP that gets neglected. People take a break or quit.
3) When you begin that with "what the hell" it suggests you are getting emotional. The rest of the paragraph suggests I am making a personal attack on you, when in fact I am not. You said I was being pessimistic. Take a look in the mirror. I did not suggest that you personally do anything. I made a general and logical statement about how to solve getting bored, getting burnt out, or getting tired of monotony of an online game, which i clearly stated earlier and was meant as a joke about 'ending' an online game. Sorry you didn't get that. Whether you choose to quit the game or not is up to up, but.... I can say this. What else can you do? Devs are going to do what they see fit and you don't like it.
4) Oh but, yes they did. I remember the devstream where this is true. Geoff (hope i spelled his name right) was the one that specifically went into detail about this. Maybe the term "endgame" is misused at this point. i don't know. Regardless, it is something they often avoid talking about and with good reason. Now, if you can tell me that they said "they don't want one endgame" and prove to me what that is in the game currently, i'll believe you. I don't think they exist. Why? Because they don't want an endgame. That's what i remember them actually saying. Farming for prime parts is not endgame. ..so what is? Also i find it funny that you are upset with me suggesting to take a break or quit the game, and after the end of your rant you say this "Right now there is no reason to do so, the only thing to do is quit because, unfortunately, Warframe has a pretty rigid end for most people. There are of course those that play just for fun, which I kinda-sorta do, but obviously a large portion don't as seen as the swells and drop offs correlating with major updates." Hey... that's what I do is play for fun. That's all I ever did when playing Warframe. If you didn't join this game and it's community to have fun, then what in the world are you playing warframe for? Seems to me like you should quit. That is, if you aren't having fun playing the game i mean.
We all feel the same way. We want to have fun. We want more content. They know that. What do you do in the meantime, before new content comes? What is the solution?
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2 hours ago, DrBorris said:
Come on, pessimism to a certain extent is okay but really? The intention of this thread was to talk about the first part of your end-game solution, getting bored.
If you thought that was pessimism, then something is wrong with your perception of things.
The most logical thing to do when you are tired of a game is either to take a break from it or to quit playing it.
If a person is still playing it, then obviously he or she is not done with the game.
However, the fact that someone had to make a thread to complain about how the devs wish to run their game is pessimism. Why you want to single me out with the use of that term is puzzling and nonsensical.
also, i remember the devs explaining on a stream what endgame is to them and why they don't think warframe should have one. Whether warframe has an endgame ro not is debatable. However, claiming that farming for prime parts is endgame is ridiculous. Warframe is a game not meant to have an ending. Obviously the problem is lack of content or things to do and a good reason to do those things other than farming for parts.
Since beating the devs over the head with threads filled with pointless complaints is hardly a solution, why not just take a break or quit the game?
...or try to come up with a solution or ideas that may even inspire the devs.
If that doesn't work for you, then what other option do you have? There's plenty of other games out there to play. That's logic, not pessimism.
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This is the only endgame solution I have ever known.
Get bored.
Get burned out.
Get tired of the monotony.
*Quit playing. Exit game. Uninstall.
__________
*If you haven't done this part, and you are still playing the game, then don't complain. Obviously the game is interesting enough to keep you playing it.
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"Archwing is still Archwing!"
LMAO
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11 hours ago, Insizer said:
I was jesting with your "which came first, the tenno or the warframe" question because you already know the Second Dream.
I see what you are trying to say, but there is one point that I disagree with:
- The devs certainly developed things in the order you speak of: Warframes, tenno, operator, Second Dream. But in terms of gameplay (pretending to be a new player) the order of uncovering is different. Firstly, the trailers (I believe) speak of the Tenno. Once you get in game however, you begin as a Warframe and once you complete the tutorial mission you get Ordis, who refers to you as "The Operator", and from the get-go you are referred to as "Tenno". All of these names are come to you at basically the same time. You do not learn of the next bit till much later. In the meantime, you basically figure that Tenno and Warframes are one and the same, and that the position of "Operator" refers to the one operating/commanding (you direct Ordis, who follows your commands) your ship.
As for your Tenno martial arts, culture, and such question:
The Tenno came first, the warframes were war machines built using them as both remote pilot and battery. Their primary enemies were the Sentients, which would adapt to basically everything. The Sentients' only weaknesses were Void energy and, to a lesser extent, physical damage. The Orokin needed to go back to the old ways of war, involving physical weapons, gun and blade.
This is my theory: At first, the warframes and Tenno were nothing more than just weapons deployed to fight, but as their role become more and more important, they became more than just tools and weapons, but an entity onto themselves. They began to model themselves further on the "warriors and ways of the past". If the Orokin era were to look back into the far past they would see many types of warrior and their surrounding cultures. Among them were the samurai and ninja. From there, factors led the Tenno to naturally and intentionally mimic the ways of these two warrior and their cultures. The warframe missions would involve sabotage and so stealth was important, and ninjas were known to be stealthy saboteurs. The development of specialized warframes and fighting styles mimicked the "schools" of swordfighting which existed in Feudal Japan. There were other things as well. Eventually, the Tenno warrior system developed into what we see. The old fashion weapons and such were developed both out of necessity and out of mimicry.
Then again, I could be completely wrong. I am, after all, coming up with this right now, because I haven't put much thought into this.
That's actually a fantastic theory. That's the overall impression I have about the Tenno lore. After reading many of the comments and posts on this thread, I see now what was going on in the past a little more clearly. Pretty much everything surrounded the making of the Tenno and their development. It's funny you mention the Sentients because just before I came back to this thread I was thinking about how they existed out in the Tau System. I'm wondering how it looks over there and what the Sentients are/were doing out there. Also I am wondering what made them come back to the origin System also with how and why.
About the point i made that you disagreed with, I meant to say that though the lore doesn't follow the order you made a joke about, the way the devs presented the game did. If irony is the right word, that's what i was touching on.
Another question comes to mind. Are Sentients birthed from the same technology as the warframes. It is my understanding that the Orokin created the Sentients.
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My most use weapons are typically ones that focus on Slash, but my favorite weapons tend to be ones that use Puncture.
Now that you mention it, i think you are right.
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Dang! ...so beautiful, so inspirational, so.... fun!
I don't even bother with consoles and have not for years, but this makes me want to go get a PS4 now.
If DE learned something from this game and allied it to warframe, then.... well... who knows the possibilities?
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20 minutes ago, Chicken25 said:
Tenno came first
Low damage weapons not really a lore thing
Tenno did not fight without warframes and nothing could contain their void energy, they were too unstable without a warframe
It was not really a matter of who or what came first. I made a catch phrase to something I contemplated. The low damage weapon thing was part of the contemplation. I honestly did not write all my contemplation about this because then there would be too much text to read. However you are correct about this, but it's not like I didn't already know. I was actually thinking or wondering if there was a faction that evolved into what is called Tenno. Like warriors before warframes were created. That is what the contemplation was about. Others that posted in this thread seem to share the same conclusion that no, there were no warriors outside of the suits and that warframes were made for children that were touched by the void.
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On 10/25/2016 at 10:37 PM, Insizer said:
1: "We just finished work on warrior puppets controlled through void/mental 'magic'!"
2: "That's amazing, now how are we going to use it?"
1: "..."
2: "..."
1: "..."
2: "so you didn't think that through?"
1: "no"
2: "... how much money did you use to make this?"
1: "a lot"
2: "Fantastic"
1: "I think all we need to do is isolate people in the Void... in order to let them be saturated by void energy...... Youth would most likely work the best."
2: "You want to throw children into the Void to see what happens!? RNGesus, all we needed was a weapon that fires Void energy!"
1: "..."
I gave this post some thought. I see the points people gave it and there are a couple of posts where people laughed about it.
I tried looking at this joke from as many angles as possible. I came up with a few conclusions, but... I don't think they are a big deal.
Keep in mind, I created only this thread. I did not create the game or its lore. I'm just contemplating it for the fun of it and thought it would be interesting to make a thread about it.
Strangely, when you look at the game's history as a whole, you can see that the devs presented Warframes and Tenno in that exact order. That is despite what the lore says.
We built warframes first, thinking that there were always people inside Later we realize that no one existed inside, that the warframes were empty shells operating with full autonomy. Then we find and uncover the existence of Tenno and called it "operator". That Tenno still does not exist inside the Warframe but his/her spirit or soul does through a process called transference. Strangely, the warframes operated all this time without a Tenno and still can somehow. (That was the impression i got from Second Dream.)
I don't think questioning what came first, the Warframe or the Tenno, is as nonsensical as it may seem.
When I made this thread, I was actually thinking about the origin of it all, not just the Tenno alone. I'm talking about culture and martial arts. Everything. I am probably wrong about this, but it just did not seem like it all started with the Tenno. It seems like Tenno are just a certain part of the culture and way of life, not exactly the foundation of it.
Then we have Dark Sector which is not considered canon to Warframe, but... it seems to be the reason why Waframe exists.
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I guess the real mystery to Tenno history is the Orokin. I think we seriously need to see one in the game somehow or learn more about them in some way. if I am not wrong, the culture surrounding Tenno is actually Orokin in nature and origin. i think to better contemplate all this, we would need to know more about them.
I believe they were Humans, but I wonder what set them apart from everyone else. I know why the Corpus are what they are. Same with Grineer. However, what do we really know about the Orokin? How much of it do we know?
To me, they seem way too mysterious. Are they extinct or in hiding? It seems like they are extinct, but... is it possible some are still alive and hiding somewhere?
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That's why I don't bother with expectations.
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I disagree. If you don't like that there is energy drain in the game, I can understand that. However, this game is about using everything you have against incredible odds. I'm not saying it's like that in all cases, but this game has many facets to its gameplay. It's never just one thing. I can't imagine why any gamer would meet the challenge of a video game by beating it's devs over the head every time something gets difficult. Yes there are times when games have things wrong with them that need fixing, but i don't think this is one of them. If you know the history of complaints concerning this game, one of the most popular ones is 'ability spam'. When DE provides challenges against that, people complain that they can't spam the abilities when they want to. I don't get it.
Anyway, in this case you presented, why do i get the impression that you think the only way to play this game is to have unlimited energy and be able to use your warframe powers without hindrance? I mean, assuming you have a primary, secondary, and melee, including the ability to do unearthly acrobatics and traverse maps with frightening speed, why would energy drain be such problem? To me it's like the same thing as with the nullifiers. All you have to do is either shoot the bubbles or enter the bubbles and kill the man inside. Yes, they can be difficult to handle sometimes, but not impossible.
What is a video game that is so easy that you win every time? People will say things like "artificial difficulty" or "not challenging enemies, just annoying". I mean come on now. Meet the challenge and learn to win with skill, not by harassing the devs on a forum. You can't always win. That's the point of a game.
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9 hours ago, arch111 said:
<snip>
That's deep. Makes a lot of sense too.
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3 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:
I'm sure that the Tenno could fight without Warframes, but think about it, if you were a void scarred teenager that is pretty much confined to a chair I'm sure your body isn't exactly up to the task of running around flipping off walls let alone even lifting half the weapons even a normal humanoid is capable of using. In a sense I guess they can to defend themselves if need be, but I doubt they're very effective.
Its still an interesting thought though OP.
okay yes, indeed. What about before the void, before being warped into what they are today? What were the Tenno back then? Did Tenno even exist or were they even called Tenno?
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On 10/21/2016 at 10:55 PM, Scherhardt said:
Tap pick up objects > tap to throw
Can also be cast on your bleeding out tenno so you can bring 'em near you.
On 10/21/2016 at 11:03 PM, SeaUrchins said:Hell yea, I'd pick squad mates and throw them at enemies!
That would be wonderful. Then I would have a reason to use it on teammates that enjoy standing within my FOV and block my screen just to cheap-steal my kills for thrills.
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18 minutes ago, JSharpie said:
Tenno.
Edit: Just read your post, have you played the Second Dream yet?
Yes I have actually. However, it's been a while so I may not remember all the details.
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6 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:
Tenno. Thought that much was obvious. Nothing, however indicated that the tenno fought without warframes. Weapons being favorites among the Tenno simply means that the Tenno typically preferred using said weapons when operating warframes.
Yeah, I figured the Tenno came first, so it is obvious, but... You are right that nothing seems to indicate that Tenno fought without warframes. That's what I'm touching on. I mean, without considering game mechanics and just thinking about the lore. Probably doesn't make much sense beyond that but, this was just contemplation.
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Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Warframe or the Tenno?
I'm not going to pretend to know everything about Warframe lore. I do have an understanding of some things though. However, there is something that has bugged me about the lore/game for a very long time now. I want to see what other players think about this.
I started playing Warframe years ago, so I remember beginning the game differently. Any player that old with the game knows what I'm talking about. We started the game with simple weapons, the kind that felt as if they did virtually no damage. Weapons like Lato, Skana, and Braton. This often made me wonder about something, especially after ready the descriptions. (I don't know if the descriptions are the same after those years, but I never bother to look at them or read them anymore.)
In the descriptions I remember them saying that these are favorites among the Tenno. Something like that. A bunch of question marks would pop up in my mind about this. These weapons surely were not my favorite, but I had to use them to get started. This made me think every time I see the weapons or use them, and I wondered... Was there a time when Tenno didn't use warframes? I mean, did Tenno exist as Tenno and fought battles as men and women without warframes because at the time warframes did not exist?
I figured that if this was true, then that would explain why the weapons cause low damage. It would be no different than the modern day soldier taking up arms against an enemy soldier. Cloth and flesh and some bit of protection, but people could still die easily from being shot. This makes sense to me because these three weapons, including the Pangolin Sword, are not formidable against enemies like the Grineer. To me, that means that there had to have been a time when these weapons were effective enough for common use, because the many weapons that the Tenno are able to craft are far more devastating than these basic weapons I mentioned.
What do you think? Anyone have insight on this?
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Contact Support
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5 hours ago, DoomFruit said:
I distinctly remember only a few weapons allowing you to hold the charge, dual ichor (and zorens?) being one of them. I don't remember a gauge, but perhaps I never noticed it.
I'm being honest. if there are still ancient videos of the game out there on youtube somewhere, you will see what I'm talking about.
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30 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:
It was proven mathematically way way more efficient than what old void ever was. It's also less grindy in the sense that while your average play time required to earn what you wanted it's the same, but you no longer grind the same boring enemies in the same tileset over and over. You can also increase your chances with Void traces, in old void you had 2% chance of getting what you want every rotC, and DE put EVERYTHING in rotCs, new content? move old content to exterminate or whatever and put the new stuff in RotC, the same RotC you already burned out for months. The only exception to this was Saryn Helmet droping from T1MD, which was nightmarish rng, a friend of mine spent 120 T1MD keys and didn't get it.
In practical terms, it's almost just as grindy as old void was, only you can improve your chances of getting a rare reward every couple of runs, and endless modes are no longer the mandatory gamemodes.
I do agree Endless Modes and Void need a "buff" to rewards. I have a clear ideas for that, but my opinion seems to be not very popular among those who want old void back.
^This is an example of what I'm talking about.
This is a repeat of the same old lip service I have heard since the devstreams, as if I don't know what the new system is about. Never once did I express that I don't know about what the new system is or what it provides. What I did was express my concerns and opinion about the new void system, and last time I checked, I am still entitled to have my own opinion and preference. If anyone here bothers to read my earlier comments, it can be seen that my problem is the lack of inspiration I sense in warframe as a whole. I used the void system as an example. I never said that the new void system is inefficient. I said that some players find it to be efficient but I don't see it.
With that said, you tried to convince me that it is less grindy and then turn around and say that is is almost as grindy as the old system. Make up your mind. Mathematics? I don't touch that. Everyone seems to have their own version of it, just like opinions. With all your pointless explanation about something I know very much about, you failed to see that regardless of what anyone here thinks or even what devs think, I don't like the new void system. It's very discouraging to me. it takes way too many steps to do the same exact thing we were doing in the old system. We are still fighting the same enemies, they just look sparkly now. We are still playing the same exact mission modes, but now grinding for void traces and relics. We still have to play missions over and over and over again just to get a single prime part we desire, just like the old system. Sure it all looks different now, but we are still dealing with the same RNG.
I was used to the old system, but i never once said i wanted it back or that i desired it. All I know is that during the time of the old system, I was willing to endure it because i knew that system and i knew what to expect. This new system is something I just do not feel encouraged to endure. You probably should ask why. I will tell you anyway.
It is because after three years of playing warframe, everything looks and feels the same no matter how sparkly the devs make it seem these days. Call it what you want, it is still grinding the void for prime parts (or even Baro's merch). If that's all players are ever expected to do in this game from now into the future like days in the past, (and that is doing uninspired things with uninspired content), then it won't last long. At some point you have to ask yourself why do i play this game or even why do the devs want me to play this game?
Now don't get me wrong. I love warframe. However, it still feels... what's the word? Monotonous.
(Sorry if i stepped on any toes.)
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i would rather play a single player version
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1 minute ago, morningstar999 said:
apart from low level ones where you have like 60-70 enemies to kill and only 6-8 reactions drop total. this has happened a good few times to me now.
also if your joining in a little late whatever dropped for the rest of the team isn't there for you and if they rush to the end and don't wait for you to make up the difference, (which can be a pain when enemy spawns randomly die off for no real reason) -it all depends on the 'pug' lottery.
Granted. To me that's more of a rare circumstance, but you do have a point there. Many points actually.
i'm sure you and I both can agree that the new void system is unimpressive. However, there are some players that find it enjoyable and efficient. i just don't see it.
Prime farming is NOT end game
in General Discussion
Posted
You make some very valid points.