Djego27
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Posts posted by Djego27
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Ember is bad and will continue to be bad, given the player base complained for years about the lack of damage on a frame hitting as hard as Chroma(actually harder on quite a bit of status weapons, given that acclerant only affected one damage component) because specific modded status weapons build around her accelerant buff where to complicated for them and making a frame more surviable that allready had AOE CC that rivaled fully specialized CC frames while they died non stop because the idea to utilize weapon based CC and 2 CC abilities in constant tandem is to hard to gasp for people that get used to be unkillable while standing around afk.
Fireball is good compared to other first abilities of frames from that age.
Immolation is just a band-aid for a broken system and a clear sign that DE never wants to invest any kind of effort to actually fix her enemy damage scaling(what was build around L1-40 years ago and is broken at high levels since forever). It serves no purpose and makes the current Ember much more boring to play then a Ember throwing out acclerants for both defensive and offensive purpose and actually do high damage.
Fireblast was bad and continues to do so after all the ideas of the community, even if a ring of fire that slows stuff down would be very good at high levels for soloing but I guess that ship sailed years ago in favour of fire wave knockback that do nothing against the faction that swarms you because the effect is negated by ancients.
Metor is farily pointless given the static damage does not really do much at high levels. It is actually funny that a lot of people enjoy that ability now, given that most of them had issues to toggle WoF about 3-4 times per minute before to stay effective. What I miss about WoF is mostly the AOE CC what in combination with acclerant actually made Ember very flexible at high levels to keep herself, defence targets and your pet alive.
It is just amazing how a frame that could years ago fairly effortless solo high level defence(the mara detron in the second Image got actually further buffed and has a very strong multishot/base damage riven) does now struggle with with 90 minutes of survival for damage reasons.
Same against armored targets, where Ember used to be one of the strongest frames against(simply because acclerant was the strongest damage buff in the game for some of the strongest anti armor weapons game had to offer) now after DE removed accelerant and nerfed the old anti armor status shotguns and the corrosive status effect on top of that into the ground the performance leaves a lot to be desired.
On 2020-06-10 at 6:24 AM, Bakaguya-sama said:To be honest, I rather like Ember's gameplay loop. She's a nuker that's actually interactive and not completely braindead like Saryn is. I don't mind having to manage my energy. I just wish that the damage output is increased substantially so playing Ember is worth it.
The hole idea of the Ember and Saryn rework was they can be played effective by players that did never actually tried to figure out how her a bit more complex abilities worked and how to utilize CC instead of face tanking everything. They both feel mostly designed around people that like brain dead frames to play.
Ember was worth playing before the heavy handed nerf to the frame, basically the only thing that stopped you was the incredible badly designed enemy damage scaling. A thing that is fine for the community, given that most are not interested to play high levels without cheese or broken stuff(like the current state of melee or the surviability on nearly every frame released in the last 3 years) and tell you we just need more damage reductions on every frame(like Ember) and it will be fine, while my 4k EHP kavat dies in a split second after 30 minutes in a axi fissure kuva fortress survial. 👌
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Well Fleeting Expertise and Streamline should exclude each other instead of being used in tandem on any caster frame, knock down arcane energize to 25 extra energy and energy use of abilities should be halved.
Give every frame 0.5 energy/s passive energy regen and knock down energized dash to 1/s at top.
This would make energy siphon a good aura again, reduce endless spamming of abilities, helps out new players and opens up real focus choice on melee frames again.
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On 2020-04-10 at 4:41 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing said:
what do you mean weapons aren't doing what they're intended to do? can you give me some examples?
Triggered!
Boar Prime: While being supposed to run a dps contest vs the strun wraith in the public eye anno 2014, it actually did run a status contest mostly decided on how much you needed that extra bang(that came at fairly high drawbacks of range, pellet spread and ammo inefficency) when it came to status weapons. As somebody that played Ember you needed every advantage that you could get at high levels vs armor Boar Prime was my poison, but in a team setup on a Vauban the Strun Wraith could have been the far superior choice.
Fast forward to 2015 and both Boar Prime and Strun Wraith recived her sledgehammer nerf into oblivion(because we are DE and we certainly not care about previous ballance that somebody much better than we can do currently did put into place), at the same time where dps shotguns recived the damage buff to deal with up to L120 armored targets relative easy and ammo efficent. In the background you could listen to a insanely loud outcry of the assault rifle called the prisma grakata stating "I am the best status shotgun in the game, #*!% you *@##$es!!!"
2017: If you you are oldschool, bitter, and hardly play the game anymore, then this is for you, you could fix your Boar Prime with extra status chance or extra reload speed on the Strun Wraith. 30p for a mod nobody wants and 50h of farming kuva missions(because try to get a status mod for a status shotgun, it is impossible to find between all the crit and damage stuff, not kidding). Now you can do with your status shotgun again what the Tigris prime(that you have but do not use, because it is a poorly designed weapon) does without any riven needed. While the hole community just thinks you are a strange person, you feel like your really accomplished something good and tell everybody on the forums that they are wrong about the boar prime(because they are).
2019: DE reworks Ember and your bitterness reaches critical levels, at the same time as your use cases for a Boar Prime reaches zero, given that you do not have a super duper high damage buff anymore(what was stronger then Chroma) so your gun suddenly is actually just vastly inferior to modern stuff. Well I guess how dare you to use the same weapons for nearly 5 years, just because we gave you that stupid specific weapon buff that made them better then other stuff on your frame. No, get new stuff, seriously get new stuff!
2020: DE did not do extreme ballance in 2015, because it was kind of reversable by the playerbase, but get ready for something that you can not reverse, that is nerfing status shotgun status again even harder and corrosive status effects just to make sure you never come up with the strage idea that you could defeat armor scaling with a status shotgun ever again. In the background you hear a assault rifle scream "#*!% you all, I am and allways will be the best status shotgun in the game!!!".
In short bitterness intensifies and rivens do not fix stuff.
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On 2020-04-11 at 10:10 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:
First off make loki base hp and shields 100.
Why? It would make no difference at all at higher levels and I find it hard to believe it would make one at lower levels.
On 2020-04-11 at 10:10 PM, (PS4)Captain_Bonecold said:Decoy should be permanent. Waste the enemy time on a fake. Decoy should get x3 Loki health and shield.
Invisibility should be a drain ability.
Switch Teleport should be replace.
Radial Disarm should confused enemies and defense to attack each other.
Loki passive should be change to Loot Detector +20m. And it stacks with other mods like it.
3 times HP on Decoy is useless, given Loki has not HP to scale from and this is not what you should use Decoy for. It is actually great to reroute melee or ranged units in combination with slows at high levels(nova, frost etc.).
With shield gating you demand Invisibility being a drain ability? Really? Futuremore this destoys your energy recharge from stuff like energized dash at high levels, for the single reason that people are to lazy to watch at ability timers.
Switch teleport has it's uses like teleporting a melee unit out of a snow globe or a eximus/ancient out of a group of enemy units at high levels, while it might be useless at low levels it is actually a fairly cool ability to showcase your skill as a loki player once targets stop to die to your squad in a instant.
Loki is one of the easiest frames to put a augment on(because you do not need power strength and even duration is questionable at high levels given that you rarely use invisbility in teams build around disarm and you need to refresh the radiation effect anyway) and the agument does exactly that.
If it would be enemy radar be my guest, because that is super handy at high levels, but loot radar? Wtf, dude???
Edit: Assuming you try a edurance run in T4 void defence, a very open map with a CC team.
You have a Nova for 75% slow. You have a frost for the globe to prevent to pod from exploding to stray bullet and for the Ice wave augment, that does stack with Nova slow. You have yourself as a Loki player and you have one wildcard, that could be everything(chroma/saryn for damage, Trinity for hard CC/energy regen or another CC frame like Vauban).
Your main goal is that nobody shots the pod or your team and is preferable to bussy hitting each other with melee weapons at snail speeds. Extra HP would be useless, you will die with or without it. Extra HP on the decoy is useless, most likely duration as well given that you need to reposition it a lot given it will die in a single hit and you will try to just move enemy units around(what buys tons of time if they are super slow), That one melee unit that is within 5m of the pod is suddenly not the priority of the hole team(because they are most likely bussy with other things), because you spotted it and moved it to a place where it starts to chase a enemy unit or your decoy instead. Your own invisiblity is not even important, given that what keeps your team and your pod alive(that are not invisibile) also keeps you alive, what is being disarmed and radiated...
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PvE ballance is important to leave players choice and room to experiment. It also used to be Warframes strongest point, that if you invested time and effort in weapons and frames, you actually did find very cool details and useability far beyond any guide(max range bullet attractor, shield tanking melee mag for 1h+ solo survival back in 2014). Could you believe that the Mara Detron was stright supperior to the Brakk at high levels against any single faction back when it came out even if every single youtuber did state otherewise? Did you know that the Arcor Plasmor on the old Saryn used to be the strongest(by miles) AOE status weapon in the hole game? Back in the days you even had something like subbtle ballance like Boar Prime vs Soma Prime\Boltor Prime, even if 99% of the playerbase did not know where the former massivly outperformed the later and that is was only in a niche it was ok. However since years DE is on a downspiral, designing frames and weapons as simple as humanly possible to a point where whatever does more damage or whatever is more unkillable is simply better.
Basically the game is worst when something is not just plain better but also the so easy to use that everybody can do it. If everybody else using a Synoid Gamacor, Tonkor or Meme strike melee it is a fairly stale game that needs a change, actually it would need that change long before that by designing weapons better. This is mostly because it is stupid to have only one option, by the simple point that it just outdoes any alternative in the game by a mile. Same is true for Warframe ballance even if DE mostly designes frames around being useful in the hands of the most stupid player, what basically means there is no point investing and practicing with them, what you see is what you get and if that is bad, the frame is simply bad, There is nothing like the pre rework Saryn or Ember left, that where just horrible played by 99% of the community, while being very strong damage frames that where designed in very interesting ways, to a point where you could actually play them horrible wrong(99% of the community did), just as you could do insane damage with them.
As for rivens, rivens are only in the game for one reason, to encurage you to buy platinum. They do not increase the performance of old guns vs new(because you should buy or grind till you give up and then buy them), they do not help to ballance the game(more likely the opposite) and DE from time to time does decide that it is for you time to invest into new rivens, by making what you have worse and new stuff more desireable. That is all there is to it.
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7 hours ago, (XB1)Ihavecrabs12 said:
Boar prime primary i have no clue why bc its an impact shotgun so its naturally not great but ig i like the sound
I to like everything about the Boar prime, what with a riven for extra status chance for a corrosive fire build was fairly decent to take down extra armor sortis solo or L120+ armored targets solo and also fairly good in old events like the L100 brusa stuff before DE made mini bosses and bosses status immune. On Ember it was actually fairly nice, given that the spread and full auto was quite desireable if you can modify 4k heat damage on it to 36k per single shot to faceroll all the factions at lower levels and litterally melt down any armored target at any level. Unfortunally since the status shotgun changes it is fairly pointless to use against any target.
I also like my Mara detron since the day it was introduced more then any other secondary weapon, given it easily outplayed the Brakk at high levels even back in the days when it did halve the damage of the Brakk, given the elemental base damage made it was actually decent status gun once you started dumping the hole magazine into heavy targets even with low status chances back in the day.
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On 2020-04-10 at 9:19 PM, General_Durandal said:
Ember isn't used in ESO because her 4 is her damager.
Ember is not used in ESO because she was not that good in AOE damage and is still not really good at it and this is all what ESO is designed around, fairly poorly I might add.
My bigger problem is that after 2000h+ of playing Ember mostly for soloing L100+ I have no reason to pick it up again because it does absolute S#&$ damage compared to pre nerf Ember while being actually less survivable and useful for defending stuff because she lost all the great CC. This is before you even cosider that the new Ember is just as boring and brain dead to play as so many other frames that do more damage and tank better.
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Well the core problem is the years old enemy damage scaling. You had a similar issue back years ago when everybody used CC to avoid getting one hit killed.
Basically enemy damage should have been capped years ago at around L80. Add shield gating, 50% damage reduction during knockdowns to the player(including the getting up animation), 50% damage reduction while being dragged. Make the hook attack actually a attack needs a small wind up and has travel time to it, so the player can avoid it with movement.
Then defensive mods should be 50% static value plus 50% percentage based, what decreases the effect on high EHP frames while the effect on normal frames is increases.
The only tank that is done right gameplay wise is Frost, simply because the tanking is mostly objective or team orientated instead of just a personal benifit. In general tanks should not have more then 5-6k EHP(2.5-3 times of a normal frame) and her abilities should be more team focused, actually drawing agro or providing CC to protect other team members instead of just herself.
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On 2020-01-12 at 3:31 AM, (PS4)UltraKardas said:
That's nice that you think that, but Corrosive blast Tigris just two shot everything in a line of 140 gunners, sooooo- Kinda splitting hairs when you say it can't when it clearly can.
You have severely faulty opinions on weapons at this point, which isn't surprising when you complain about a rework that makes a frame less dependent on fire based weapons for all of her damage, and ignore how vastly superior her entire kit is currently-So basically you tested your calim for the Tigris prime just as poorly as you tested the pre change Ember?
Nevermind that corrosive blast status weapons are terrible for actual dps(the reason everybody showcase them with Vauban so they do not have to deal with the knockdown) and the Tigris prime is one of the worst designed status weapons and weapon in general from DE.
I personaly find it such claims very rich from people her on the forums, that are honestly in the vast majority unfriedly, have not a slightest clue how a discussion works and are for some reason super conviced that her "argument"(that they do not even have) is correct, even if it is not based around actuall ingame experience, but rather just repeating a common opinion, that is also most of the time wrong.
I actual hate the Ember rework for legit reasons, have tested the changes and actually did understand and use the pre work Ember every day(52% of my playtime is on that frame).
Do you know where the huge amount of Ember rework requests and the general appriciation for the rework comes from?
I do:
- A playerbase that is so terrible at the game that they get her semi afk asses handed to them in anything that is not absolutly unkillable till L100 even in the hands of the worst players in the game. Point in case next to nobody complains about absolute boring gameplay in any content 99% of the playerbase that this approach of DE produced, nobody complains about DEs broken enemy damage scaling that only works for the starmap(the thing it was designed for) good, nobody complains about broken enemy accuracy vs host players or the ton of mechanics that produce just broken results at high levels(acient hooks that scale in damage and also do bleed and toxic procs at high levels that kill normal frames quicker then you can get up again while being hitscan and aimbotting the player at the same time).- A playerbase that screams for years for more damage, because they do not understand the status system, weapon/frame interactions and that older weapons where suposed to be used in combination with frame specific buffs at high levels. All the vast majority in the game can do is wave around AOE weapons and spam AOE abilities, point in case the old Ember.
- A playerbase that does not actually test and experiment with frames anymore, the reason why every new frame DE releases is incredible boring to play for me, because there is nothing complex to that designs anymore and why they failed so hard to play one that actually had interesting mechanics, like the old Ember or Saryn.
- A playerbase that does not experiment with weapons and builds on them at high levels, given that they just slap on it what they seen on Youtube. Otherwise more then 3 people in a over 10 pages long thread would have complained at the changes to status shotguns in 2015 and more then just myself would have called out DE out for terrible overbuffing the mara detron(what was allready king of secondary shotguns by a mile at high levels with far less damage then the brakk) making all other options mostly pointless. Also you would most likely see more people with status weapons in sorties. Do you know why I never seen another Saryn with a status modded Arca Plasmor in a public match for 1.5 years, even when it what just hilerious broken? Because next to nobody did took his time to understand the old spore mechanic and then looking into what kind of weapon would produce the most reliable result in scaling content. All you did hear here on the forums was that Saryn even buffed falls off at L50, because the only thing people used was Spore and Molt, what had a rather restrictive scaling, compared to what you actually could push out on damage by utilizing spore on actual targets.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:
The Tigris actually can go either corrosive blast, to CC enemies, armor strip and slash proc or viral and radiation. Either way single volley can kill a level 140 corrupted heavy gunner (or a line of them if you have punch through if you let the bleed tic.
The corrosive/blast build is just bad(same as it is on other status shotguns since you do crap damage with it, because the knock down of blast) vs groups. The thing you will shoot 90% of the time. Also the viral/radiation with sweeping seration is more effective till L150 ish compared to that, given that it does not relay on armor strip but armor bypass with the bleed procs. Non of that builds will kill a L140 level gunner in 2 rounds, they all need 4 with no CP(what I always test since I do not use CP when I solo most of the time). This status shotgun however used to kill in 4 hits(what is only 20% of your magazine with 0.1s per bullet reload compared to 0.5s on the Tigris prime, plus much faster firerate to boot), against L155, no CP and it did effortlessly continue to do so if you raise the level on the old Ember:
1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:Secondly- It's cute that you think your screenshot means anything without listing the frames stats. I have no idea what either frames stats are, nor do I have an idea about the weapon. The problem is that ember being so accelerant reliant that as I said, and you confirmed you need accelerant for effective damage. Did you build the rakta cernos for Chroma to take advantage of, or did you build the weapon just for her, and not compare a version just for Chroma?
Well it is a just stright comparision I did for one of the countless "Ember damage sucks!!!" threads her on the forums, with both frames in practical high level builds and weapons I would personaly use on them for that stuff. Both pics are without Argon scope up, given they are one shots.
Here is the Ember, obviously wiht flash accelerant instead of Fireblall Frenzy before the change:
My Chroma for a bit longer runs, blind rage is obviously not maxed given we talk realistic mod setups that work at high levels and not ones that can not press 3 after a tick of a large energy restore:
The Cernos is like I use it(on Ember obviously with the 60% and 90% heat mod instead of the 90% Toxic and Electric like on Chroma):
1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:That means that unlike Chroma using hit abilites once for the next minute, it takes multiple casts of accelerant for the same number of enemies.
Secondly- You can cherry pick warframes all you like, but old Ember can't hold a candle to This kind of damage.
Again you did need to use the ability a lot anyway to stay alive. Also I do not cherry pick. Ask around the forums what people could do with Ember and then ask me. I will tell you they had with the exception of like 1 person I seen per hole year in a public game with the frame no idea what they did. They did not utilize accelerant, where litterally 90% of Embers damage came from to do damage and they also did not use it to stay alive. All this people did press 4 and did think they played her damage frame good, while preaching here at the forums the endless story of Ember has crap damage and survivablity.
Also different to all the people that praise the new Ember, I actually did go solo with the frame into endless missions, like I did for years and I am fairly disapointed with the hole thing.
1 hour ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:Kinda like old ember is just poor damage that would be like nothing if not use a heat weapon and accelerant every 5 seconds. xD
However on the old Ember 90% of your damage came from accelerant, while there is nothing there on the new Ember outside of a fairly poor impression of a boring to play damage frame. Btw you never used heat base damage weapons on Ember at high levels, given they did scale very poorly, what you used where mostly crit weapon that allow a very high amount of heat stacking(like bows or the vhek) or status weapons, preferable ones that came with radiation base damage, a element you need to penetrate aura protection and that you could not use outside of that weapons given it would remove the raw heat damage from them.
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The current Ember is just poor damage from inferno(that would be like nothing if I would not use a radiation status weapon to disable healer and disruptor auras what 99% of the Ember players do not even do) and what little Fireball frenzy can add, less survivable at high levels(I rather press 2 then to get shot by 20 units in the face for 3 seconds stright with a 60-80% damage resistance in practical applaications), can't keep her pet alive(another damage loss) by the lack of CC and is objectively incredible boring to play now(quite similar to most modern frame designs):
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34 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:
Correction. Any frame with a status based corrosive build weapon such as the tigris prime had no scaling issues.
The Tigris prime is not a good corrosive/fire weapon for armor strip, given the low fire rate. It is mostly utilized with viral/slash. Weapons like the Mara detron, Boar prime, Staticor or Amprax etc are armor strip weapons, they remove the armor and then kill the raw unarmred targets with her damage, what is hardly used because they do lower damage and people do normally not play high levels. On Ember in comparision this however was not the case, given that accelerant added the equivalent of 12-15 90% fire damage mods to this weapons, what actually made them hit incredible hard.
34 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:Buffing fire element on a weapon per enemy group was notably worse in every regard then buffing a weapon's total based damage over a period time.
You mean like on Chroma?
It is not, it was actually ballanced, even superior for some elements you can just throw in on Ember for procs(like viral and radiation vs infested), what would be a massive damage loss on stuff like Chroma, what made Ember way more flexible and interesting in the status weapon department. Ember had to recast accelerant for CC to stay allive at high levels a lot anyway, so there never was a issue with having targets not under the effect of accelerant.
34 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:
You had even less scaling issues using say, Banshee, Chroma, Mirage, or Rhino who buffed all damage aspects on a set duration rather then a single group of enemies.Chroma did the same damage as Ember more or less, Banshee was designed as team buffer(made OP by the agument and stacking of sonar spots) and is dreadful to play solo at very high levels, because your main CC only works with low range, while your main damage source needs a high range, Mirage is just stupid OP and Rino adds 70-100% extra damage in practical builds what is fine(given that he also has a ton of CC, mobility and surviability) but a lot less then the old Ember could do.
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On 2020-01-05 at 10:57 PM, (PS4)thegarada said:
Inferno does far more damage than world on fire. And Ember went from trash frame to farm level 30 mobs to end game frame with significant versatility.
Um, WoF was just a very insignificant amount of the damage you could do with Ember, in the last 5 years everytime somebody complained about low damage on Ember, this complaints always came from not understanding what accelerant does on a weapon modded around that. A frame that did need zero anti armor abilities to melt L155 corrupted heavy gunners in about 1-2 second swith a corrosive/fire status weapon from 2014 has no scaling issues.
As for versatility, Ember is now worse then before at high levels by the lack of damage and at defending stuff by the lack of CC. DE removed what made Ember versatile, this was AOE CC, what made the frame shine in any kind of Mission, especially solo. The current Ember is just the lame old, here is your button for god mode(what is actually fairly useless compared to the CC you had before at high levels), here the one for damage(what also does insignificant damage compared to what Ember dish out before) and DE made Ember like that(plus most of the frames in the last 3 years) because aperently the vast majority of the community can not figgure out or utilize anything more complex then this.
Inferno does fairly poor at high levels(same as WoF did outside of CC), because even if you disable heat eximus, disuptor auras, healer auras with a status weapon(what 99% of the people playing the frame never use) you are still stuck with a few thousend damage per tick from Inferno, instead of having the CC of the old WoF with tthe massive weapon damage that accelerant did provide.
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Well the only advantage I see with that would be that Saryn becomes even more a afk frame that it is now, while it is allready fairly questionable as it is.
If you want to tune down the current hands free saryn, you would have all my support and I would suggest only applying a corrosive proc once per spore so a Saryn player actually has to work for the armor reduction and not have it map wide, given that frames like Ash and Trinity also do not do such things, even in dedicated builds to defeat high level armor.
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15 hours ago, Blexander said:
Oh my lord, you are a literal broken record, and you're turning me into one as well. How many times do I have to say that:
1. This is discussion about purely abilities
2. Gun damage and ability damage CAN NOT AND SHOULD NOT BE compared
before you finally comprehend what I'm telling you?
I'm done trying to argue with you when your only arguments were, are, and always will be "Why use abilities that aren't utility/if guns will outdamage them?".
Buffed weapon damage(that actually came from a ability) was the main surce of Ember damage. Just because you did never understand that and never used it, does not mean you can fairly rate the old Ember without that. It just means you play warframe and the frame you try to discuss about just as bad as 99% of the community. You just continue with your nonsense about seperating ability damage from weapon damage, for no other reason then you as a player never utilized it correctly when it was still on Ember. Saryn pre rework used to also scale massively by useing the correct weapons(guess what 99% of the players never did that), same as 2 of the old polarise mags could not be compared in damage output by any means if one also changed the build to have a bit of duration, used bullet attractor and had a mara detron specifically modded around punching through high level robotic guardian eximus, that made other units around it and them immune to the massive AOE damage from the shield explosion if you look at performance L200+. Do you believe a lot of people on excalibur used specific finsiher damage builds on her melee weapon for high level, no the vast majority never did.
Damage is Damage, it does not matter if it comes from your gun, melee or your abiltiy. Futuremore weapon damage is plain and simple far superior as damage source, given that it can be affected by anti faction mods, by arcanes, by cat buffs, by a lot of warframe buffs that do not much for abilities, can be vastly improved with status effects(like shield removal, armor strip, viral, cc), gives you the choice what kind of weapon would suit the mission best(AOE, range, or very hard hitting single target damage) and on top of that it is more reliable once you are surounded by 1-3 energy leech eximus units at high levels like full time.
Ember currently simply does not deliver as damage frame, besides being incredible boring to play on longer missions.
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I have not seen issues with the old saryn soloing 60 waves of akkad with the frame(what is L155 ish infested), outside of the CC is to limited to really keep everything from the pod what slowly lets you lose it and eximus toxic ancients are a pain in the ass with 100% toxic resitance for a frame that did 90% of it's damage as toxic dots.
I actually did wellcome the changes to remove viral proc stacking, given that all it did was encurrage people to spam 1 next to her molt instead of actually spreading spores on enemy units and detonating them with your prefered mass murder status weapon.
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35 minutes ago, Leqesai said:
You're missing my point. My ideal changes for Saryn would make spores not able to kill much so the armor stripping would be constantly applied. Spores could then be more effectively spread throughout a mission as the spores themselves would be killing far less often, making the spread from squad kills much more reliable.
Due to how spores scales it would eventually become very lethal, as it is now, but by reducing the damage and scaling by 90% it would take considerably longer to ramp up to the point where armor stripping becomes secondary to the overall tick damage.
Well I try to see it but I believe you mistaken how a few things work.
The armor strip can be interpreted as just removing EHP from the target, 50-98% depending on the level of armored units. If you kill targets before they are fully lose her armor, they are dead, job done. The only thing you have to do is to respore and move on, what is a lot less hassle then before the rework, where you wiped the map of any spore(and unit it was attached to) at a 15 to 20s basis.
Currently it takes with my 140% build around 15 to 20s, while my melee build with 200%+ takes away the armor in 10s, while my melee punches thx to toxic lash through L160 bombards in under 3 seconds(you kill a group in 5, before the armor is removed). In both cases I do not see the issue, this are very good numbers for AOE armor strip(consitant) and bursting armored targets down with melee weapons.
What would be the actual advantage to strip the armor and then kill a target compared to having it dead with some armor left over on it?
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On 2019-12-31 at 7:32 AM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:
I don't think any other frame can prevent another from dealing damage with abilities outside of extremely limited, niche cases. ´
Well back in the days when Excavation and R5 core farming was a thing, I cursed the gpull augment, given that all people that played mag for gpull(dude I seen it in a youtube guide that I should play mag for excavations, did not watch till the build) prevented you from doing any damage with your mag, given non of them had the 200%+ powerstrenght build for polarise that you did need for longer runs.
When Firequake was a thing I cursed any Ember running that, given that it was like a 50% damage debuff to the hole team because people could not do headshots. Think Ember could screw you just with one augment? No, take 3 and use Fireball Frenzy or Flash Accelerant on your team members in high level copus stuff, turning her shield ignore toxin into non shield ignore gas damage.
I also vastly prefered the pre rework Saryn over the current one, given it was a lot more of a damage frame to actually play instead of carfully managing a damage indicator on the bottom right side of the screen, not to mention that it was a crap ton more burst damage before the rework.
44 minutes ago, Leqesai said:I would love to see the damage dropped like 90% on her spores so they don't really have much in the way of killing potential but strip armor very effectively.
They allready do, just add more power strength, last time I did a extra armor sorti survival I hardly could find a grenier that had a yellow bar during the 10 minutes with just 140% and 235% range...
@taiiat The pre rework Saryn did bomb the old ESO just as good as the new one, if not slightly better in my opinion, only problem was hitting multiple maps with armored targets while other people did not bring CP, then again switching back and forth between a status secondary to melt heavy armored units and 50k gas crit plasmor to bring the AOE hurt solved most issues back then for me.
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1 hour ago, Blexander said:
All instances of damage have a 10% / 20% / 25% / 35% status chance, while explosions occur at a rate of roughly 2 to 4.5 per second.
- Enemies are prioritized upon World on Fire's activation. Higher priority will be given to enemies that pose the most immediate threat to Ember, such as enemies within close range.
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With the exception of the initial explosions on activation, multiple explosions do not occur simultaneously.
Also the enemy cap was 5. Look it up.
2 to 4.5 was general summerized to 3 to provide a basis for numbers in discussions on Ember, that you probly missed over the last 5 years.
1 hour ago, Blexander said:Are you well? What part of her previous 2 kits didn't scream "DPS frame". It is no less a fact than it is an opinion.
Again, your view of how Ember should do damage(by button hammering instead of utilizing weapons) are not important to me, they never where given they are purely subjective. What is, is that Ember did a lot better in the damage departement before the changes and had a lot of utility for high levels, what also got removed.
1 hour ago, Blexander said:Heh, I laughed. Imagine assuming thag I have been playing a frame, for approximately 4-5 years, wrong. I knew damage Ember could deal to each enemy type, I just refused to play a gun-buffer when I didn't want to. And don't try to excuse the nerf as "DE's design". THAT'S not an argument.
If you would know you would not went into a discussion with me, with fairly weak arguments comming from your lack of understanding how the frame did work, pre rework in rework suggestion threads, you would not claim that Ember did lack surviability and damage in this very thread right here and we would not have that conversation to begin with.
The vast majority of the playerbase played the older damage frames not to her real potential. I seen like 1 single player that used the fire weapon damage scaling on Ember per hole year in random groups consistantly over the years, yet I seen like 3 threads every weak of people that did not utilize it at all and did not know how it works complain about Ember would apearently fall of in damage at L50 for years.
On 2019-12-30 at 1:53 PM, rosconeko said:Thanks for feedback, all of you. I didn't intend for this to become a "heated" discussion. See what I did there? 😉
You all definitely provide very in depth analysis on Ember, especially her 4th ability, which is kinda going off track, but appreciated nonetheless.
Getting back to my main topic, regarding her 2 and 3. I do not consider myself a pro, as both of you clearly seem to be. And I really do mean that. Being MR27 (I know that doesn't mean much), I do at least have a good understanding of the mechanics and if I don't, I try learn. Hence my topic in the first place 😊
I have tried a few different builds with Ember (new rework), but I just can't seem to find one that actually works. There is definitely potential here (let's just ignore her 1 altogether) and I'm not giving up on her, but it all seems a bit disjointed.
I would assume her 2 is meant to be DR in the way that Nova, another squishy frame, utilises 1 for the same purpose (depending on your build, of course). But from my experience, I don't feel it actually working. And I do go for a strength build. I'm completely open to the possibility that I might be doing something wrong. Anyway, so to me it would make sense if her 3 could release all that built-up damage (kinda like Nyx's 4 with extra steps). Because even her 3 doesn't seem to strip armor consistently, from my personal experience. Lastly, coming back again to my original point, she has no way of effectively gaining energy or sustaining it (unless you change aura to Naramon and slap on Energy Siphon). She uses more energy than she is able to replenish. That makes the fact that her 2, which arbitrarily starts draining energy, even more of an issue.
So, in closing, I really think that making her 3's damage scale off of her 2's total absorbed damage and drawing from its pool, instead of energy, will greatly improve Ember.
Fireball does a granteed heat proc, if you do not use status weapons it is definitive worth useing against heavy armored units. Furthermore with the augment you can add like 2 90% heat damage mods worth of damage to your weapons, what is better then nothing even if pre rework Ember added like 15 90% fire damage mods to specific, build around accelerant weapons. It is also useful to CC stuff during reloads.
Immolation is DR, however it is the weakest tank ability in the hole game, on a squishy frame that DE striped of all the great CC. Fireblast only strips all armor if your heat meter is at 90%, what is not usefull at levels where it would be useful, because you lack the energy to do so.
Building for strenght on the new Ember is rather pointless, it does no longer affect your CC and damage in multiple ways. All it does is buff base damage of abilities(what does fall off nearly as quick as on the old Ember) and the bonus from fireball frenzy. Most people go more into range, however that is only useful for bigger maps. This is what I run, what was mostly build around the pre rework Ember:
Is it worth it? No, because the frame no longer controlls maps and hits like a truck, it is now exactly the low level, low damage frame people complained about for years.
My I suggest to you the same that I suggested to quite a few people over the years that wanted to rework Ember. Spend at least spend 100h straight past L100 solo with the frame without cheese before you suggest a rework.
What you will find will be certainly not the well designed and fun to play frame that I did, however you will find out that:
A A single level 108 heavy gunner has 8405 armor, while even my build has less then 3k EHP, so taking the required amount of damage to strip armor is not really feasable outside of melee and life striking litterally everything, then again melee is so broken that you will not need armor strip to begin with at levels where you can realisticly survive without getting one shot killed(what was L140 ish with the old Ember).
B All the people that argue about the ultimate gun against high level armor and request massive buffs to weapons and armor removing abilities added to frames are just to stupid to utilize a status weapon for that. I do since 2014 and do not care ever since about the level number above a armored target, given that all armored targets except for bosses are very squishy without armor, a thing that a status weapon will remove in a few shots.
C Ember is a lot of effort to play and you can decide after that 100 hours if that is worth it for the fun you had with her, it certainly was for me with the old Ember(to a point where most other damage frames feel incredible lame and boring to me), not really with the new one.
On 2019-12-30 at 7:05 PM, LascarCapable said:That's because DR is pretty much mandatory for high level content. Can't kill and loot stuff if you're dead, and anything in the level 80-100 level fork tends to nastily clobber anything without DR, insane regen or a very high armor value.
Or CC, what Ember had before the rework. However the core issue is mostly that the enemy damage system is incredible poorly designed with uncapped scaling damage on litterally anything(even acient hooks for whatever reason DE did think this was a good idea), scaling accuracy, assuming you are not host then you are screwed even at low levels, enemy units with no reaction time, build on a system that was designed for the starmap years ago(and actually tested till L40 ish, given that it works for that like it should). The real reason people did CC hole maps years back and DE releasing any new frame with what is basically godmode is just that.
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8 hours ago, Blexander said:
But unlike WoF, Inferno can affect multiple targets at once, with the soft target cap being 10 per cast. WoF was hard locked to 1 target per instance of damage, and was rng if it would bounce on the same target twice or damage another one.
WoF hit 3 targets per second, priorizing closer targets(a change done 2015 what was amazing on the frame) what means it actually did hit stuff with CC that will most likely shoot or melee you and given that you killed that targets first with guns they could not be hit again. Given that at high levels you will always be stuck with a few eximus targets, because there EHP is vastly higher then one trash units, hitting them multiple times was desireable for CC.
8 hours ago, Blexander said:I swear, I have lost count of how many times you bring guns into an ability-specific argument. You CANNOT equate gun damage to ability damage.
Ember was never supposed to have "gun-buffer" as a primary(only viable at the time) role. I'm glad both Accelerant and it's augment are gone, because now I can actually engage enemies using most of her kit in conjunction with shooting instead using half of it and then only shoot.
There is no ability specific damage argument here, given that both WoF and Inferno did and do not provide anything substantial for damage. Ember is(or at least was) a damage frame from a time where you actually had to play a damage frame to do well to do high damage, instead of the novice approach to just hammer a button. I absolutly can compare doing 8.7k damage with Inferno to doing 90k damage with a single mara detron shot and the second option was a mile better, given that eximus targets have a crap ton more EHP then trash units.
It is just your opinion what Ember was suposed to do, it is not a argument. You never used her kit, this is where your complains for low damage and low surviability before the rework are comming from, given that the Ember complains about that are years old, always the same and always have the same reason from my personal experience on the forums in threads about the frame. It had nothing to do with the old Ember, it is just you not playing the design of DE to it's strenghts and being disapointed with the results.
When I did start to play Mag or Saryn as damage frame seriously I did terrible(mostly because I started off a youtube or forum suggestion, what are unfortunally most of the time not really all that good):
However I did practice, experiment with different weapons, changed the builds and became the person that generally is on top of the damage chart with that frames and can give good suggestions on the forums how they are played effectively. I could even give good advice about very niche things like a bullet attractor build on mag for 1h melee solo runs in the void or one that I used to solo L100 sorti bosses, because I actually tried that out and confirmed that it works:
All this frames got a rework, that dumped down her interesting concepts, made them very one dimensional and much more boring to play in my honest opinion. Embers rework in comparison to Mag and Saryn is the worst, because on top of being boring to play by removing all the interesting aspects of abilities and how they could be used at high levels, it removes the scalability from the frame.
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Well the intention was that you spam Inferno and counter that by spamming Fireblast to not get energy inefficent(so much that DE allready broke the rules for energy regeneration during a channeling ability with Immolation), no matter if you currently have any use for the knockback or armor strip, while this is allready energy inefficent to begin with. It is just a poorly thought through resource system, that mostly is in place to prevent people just hammering the 4 button, without any thought put into how to this will actually play out ingame.
If DE would make Fireblast free outside of the heat meter drain(a resource that you throw away currently anyway non stop) it would basically remove the only design goal they had for that design and they would have to come up with something else.
The trick is actually to not prevent filling the meter but just remove it by double tap Immolation everytime you get the sound that the game gives you at the 80% heat meter mark. Fireblast currently is mostly the same as it was for the last 5 years I played Ember, a waste of energy comparted to other things you can do with that energy. Even if you do not run around with a status shotgun what makes the armor strip of fireblast irrelevant, a single fireball with halve the armor on the target what is sufficent to punch through sorties and all other normal content in the game without FOTM weapons.
I do not believe DE has any clear vision or idea where to go with Ember, given that Ember before the rework was one of the most ballanced and thought through frames in the game(a game that unfortunally has incredible poor ballance).
48 minutes ago, Blexander said:You obviously haven't played Ember much before the rework. It was impossible to play her on higher levels because:
- She dealt no significant damage
- She popped like a balloon because she literally had no sustain, let alone defensive capabilities
WoF did no significant damage(12k per second on my build + another 36k rng dot damage), same as Inferno does no significant damage now. I personaly would highly prefere WoF even if the damage value was 0, over the current Inferno, given that it did at least some CC. Nothing changed outside of removing Ember real source of damage, what used to be accelerant and weapons build around it.
Ember hardly can take more hits today, given that you have to eat all the damage the game throws at you without the CC Ember had before the rework. Btw Ember was one of the most easy to heal frames before litterally getting one shotted by everything because she not only could stop leathal damage by just pressing 2 but heal from 1% to 100% in a single life strike(cold no combo counter needed) with throwing weapons, years before they became relevant for the throw or as melee weapon(becasuse killing blow, allways throwing channeled and massive fire damage on your melee).
This is Ember today, incapable to keep your pet alive with CC at the 60 minute mark and running out of the mission 90 minutes in by the lack of damage(what would have been laughable pre rework):
Futuremore it is litterally a insult to what the frame was in any kind of defensive missions. You might as well just play chroma, because it tanks better(like it did for years) and does a lot more damage(thx to the rework and Embers massive damage nerfs) then the current Ember, while both are utterly bad when it comes to CC now.
Edit: This is Ember anno 2015 controlling the map and laying down the hurt 60 waves into ODD solo, no defensive mods on the frame whatsoever, a time where no damage frame could match Embers CCs and no CC frame could match Embers dps and guess what the frame did a lot more damage 4 years ago with the weapons back then compared to now
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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:
stuff
Well it feels like a nit pick kind of thing if a frame if a frame buffs or debuffs, till you actually look a status weapons. If Ember would have provided a heat damage buff most status weapons would actually not be effective at all on the frame, given that the probability what status procs is modified by the amount of that damage type on the weapon compared to the total damage of the weapon. I always found it quite a neat detail that DE gone the extra effort route on Ember, given that it was the only frame in the game that worked that way.
Melee Ember always was fairly solid(with flash accelerant it became actually very good, given it allowed a lot more flexibility with your melee weapon builds), even if basically you just used fireball and accelerant. However Condition Overload made it basically to simple till the nerf, while again the reballanced glaive just shreds everything on it's own. Then again Melee was and still is just to powerful to be really fun as we speak, given that all the more complex things like ground finishers, knockdowns, having AOE and gap closers in your combos and knowing what attacks to channel and what not became more or less irrelevant with the years.
I gave up on the Haiku prime CE meta fairly quick, given that it did not really deliver in the damage department, same as the spore and molt combo. Akkad was great, because you could get to the C rotation very quickly and easily play till wave 60 solo on Saryn:
Saryn was great for endless defence fissure missions solo, given that on most maps it was a lot quicker then with Ember given that nothing really had the EHP to survive the AOE you build up with the trash mobs, so you could skip the infamous clean up job at the end of the waves that where kind of a trademark of the old saryn: I also did some stuff like Hydron solo 40 waves with Saryn to argue about the frame with other people here on the forums about "Does fall off in damage at wave 10!!!", however L100+ toxic eximus nox 40 waves into it where a absolute pain to grind down with Saryn and really not worth the time investment. Overall it was more burst heavy, where you instead of watching a timer climp had a 1/3 chance that on a smaller mob group, that was spored properly, that the toxic transfer will go off what you always followed up with misasma, given that misama damage with 100% bonus from the toxic proc was fairly solid.
Take this bombard for example it had like 6000 damage per second in toxic dots after his armor reduction ticking on it, what in addition to the misama damage only required a single shot to remove it after you wiped the trash:
I would have prefered if they removed fireblast instead of accelerant and made the fire debuff of accelerant scale inverse with the heat meter(while nerfing Inferno damage by the factor of 3), giving players a real reason to manage the heat meter to ballance out damage mitigation with damage dealing while also favouring negative duration high powerstrenght builds in build up speed and draining of the resource.This way Ember would have been more complex to play and all the interactions beween weapons and abilities would have remained on the frame for players that look for a interesting to play damage frame to find.
As for fireball, I never really used the flame patch effect on it, outside putting it on the pod in defence, even then it was mostly to small to really prevent melee units to hit it.
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1 hour ago, ScytodiDaedalus said:
Yeah, have hardly even played Ember ever since the rework.
I don't understand how "well scaling" Ember was tho, I understand Accelerant really helped Ember dish out tremendous damage with Heat damage, but I always got stuck around the 100+lvl Armor values where there's virtually no way through.
As for flexible, Well I never tried Fireball Frenzy or Flash Accelerant builds, but atleast she got the job done, pressing 2 every time you faced enemies was really getting tiresome, but atleast it only costed 50 energy base, regardless of enemy count, and now Iferno costs... considerably more, interrupts everything, no more meleeing or shooting, just jumping and casting.
Most people only considered Ember as a damage frame on her own. However frames from that era are not without weaknesses. In Embers case, being weak against high level armor protection and aura protection(by the way WoF worked and that heat procs can not stack). However armor can be broken with lots of corrosive procs. However similar to most of this old warframe designs there are weapons in the game that might be not super useful to everybody but are incredible powerful on specific frames at high levels. While status shotguns(what produce the most procs per second of any weapon in the game) where ammo inefficent and do low damage so that they where only reasonable effective against very heavy armored targets for killspeed, Ember could utilize them a lot more freely given that accelerant gave them massive damage when modded for corrosive/heat and to some degree made them halve way ammo efficent. The reason why I still use my 2014 boar prime, is mostly because I do love how the weapon works and because it hardly makes a difference in killspeed if the target is L80 or L160, given that what makes this armored units so tanky is not her HP scaling, it is nearly compleetly the armor protection scaling, what the Boar prime removes after 3-5 hits on the target so it is down to red bar, at what point it did happen to hit harder the a Tigris Prime on Ember.
Aura protection was actually a hard one for me, given that to build radiation you need heat, what means the weapon will not do high damage on Ember. However by accident while leveling my fresh from the trader mara detron I discovered that if the weapon has radiation as base damage you can actually do radiation/corrosive/heat or radiation/viral/heat what made it litterally the best scaling secondary in the game on Ember. I even was the only person in the hole game that called the changes to the mara detron in the secondary shotgun rework thread absurd and guess what, DE even buffed it a 2. time after that:
This was with flash accelerant 80.000 heat damage per single shot, on a weapon with halve the fire rate of a auto rifle, a massive range for a shotgun(actually no damage falloff at all before the secondary shotgun rework), on a status weapon that easily punches through any level of armored target, can punch through all the ancient healer auras and halve the EHP of the target after the first shot, when you slot in viral vs Infested. A radiation/viral/heat weapon would do very poorly on any other frame that buffs weapon damage vs Infested, given that you mostly buff highly resisted elements, however on Ember it was the best thing since sliced bread, given the only thing you buff is heat damage, what is not resisted by the faction at all.
As for flexible I mostly mean that Ember was equally good against every faction(with the proper status weapons) plus litterally all kind of mission types. Most frames of that era had factions where they where not good against, like Mag vs Infested or Grenier, Ash vs Infested or Corpus, Saryn vs Grenier etc. while Ember could do it all fairly well given that most of your damage came from weapons, what could be chosen to what works best against the faction. Same for defence type missions and Interceptions, Ember had a lot of CC. It was not hard CC like with a real CC frame like Vauban but combined with the massive damage it could get the job done for basically everything.
This was a sorti excavation, back when it was 2000 cryotic as goal, secondary only, plus swarm moa clouds had bugs at this time giving litterally everything another 90% armor damage reduction without duration, on top of healer 90% damage reduction soloed with Ember and the only secondary in the game that could have made the this possible, the mara detron. I actually had a funny 3 pages thread with other high MR players explaining why a radiation base damage weapon was the only reasonable choice instead of pure stupidity on my part when I reported the bug.
While you could have done this mission solo with strong CC frames like Rino or Vauban, you would have spend a ton of energy restores on it, where other damage frames lacked the CC to keep the excavators alive. Ember however could do that, the reason why I farmed my focus on Ember in infested excavation till 2000 solo for a while, till DE introduced boosters what basically made this pointless, given that if you run away to pick up the booster the excavator dies, the respawns stop and the booster runs out before you can set up the next excavator.
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15 hours ago, (PS4)sister-hawk said:
Ok well I can say the only reason you hate the new Ember is because you don’t understand how to play her, so there you go.
You don’t have to be condescending toward people to disagree with them.
WelI am very annoyed with nearly any Ember player ingame or on the forums for the last couple of years, given that all threads about changing the frame(like 3 every single week), outside a hand full, where all about the lack of damage and that Ember does not scale, what indicates that people did not understand what accelerant did. The same thing continued in neraly every public game, what you seen where Embers just pressing 4 and going afk or utilizing the current fotm weapons(that often where not really good on Ember, because raw damage and crit numbers where not the most improtant stats on a weapon for Ember) without any fire damage.
While this might probably make me look like a massive A****** on the internet, I am actually not. I am just unhappy that the game lost another interesting frame to play and that the vast majority of the playerbase applaudes and considers the changes as a improvement because they did never did understand the mechanic that actually did make Ember a very well scaling and flexible damage frame.
10 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:I may not understand Ember to the same extent you do but it's insulting as hell to lump everyone together like that. I don't particularly care what her max capabilities were pre rework. Her being a buffer frame was not only something I didn't care for gameplay wise but a buffer frame is not what Ember in my opinion was ever advertised as thematically. Even if her current version of her kit is wildly different and basically not what Ember "was" anymore it in my opinion is far more in line with what the fantasy of the design intent. Which is why I see it as superior compared to her old version.
In regards to Saryn I'm actually completely aware of how her old rework played. And there was fun to be had with it. But I also enjoy her new setup. purely because it feels more organic in regards to the whole "spreading disease" sort of thing. I don't think one version is superior to another. It's fine for you to prefer styles of play that are no longer present. It's not okay for you to be a jerk to others simply because they don't like what you liked. Who cares if people are ignorant. They like what they like. let them have that.
Technically Ember was not a "buff" frame but a debuff frame(given that accelerant did give enemy units negative fire resistance) that also happend to have multiple way to buff the fire damage component on weapons. It was also the only frame of that kind where it only affected one single element and the benifits for the team where compleetly tied to weapon modding, instead of the general increase to all damage what most frames offer.
As for theme, I found it very fitting that not only your abilities but also your weapons did light up everything and did leave nothing but burned corpses behind, plus everything on the frame was designed around directly improving fire damage output or did reward status effects(corrosive, viral, radiation) that directly improve fire damage or reward to overcome enemy defences such as armor or aura protection where fire damage has issues with incredible damage gains. Then again theme on a warframe is heavly subjective. This just looked nice for a frame focused around on fire damage in my personal opinion:
I actually started playing around seriusly with Saryn during the hey days of the WoF Ember, because I did not want to be just the second or third Ember in every mission and given that everybody on the forums just pointed out Saryn has scaling problems beyond L50 with Spore + Molt and was "bugged" it did trigger my excitement to try out something new and look if there is not more to it then the common forum opinion. What I found after testing and clarifying that all the youtube suggestions for damage did non, was just broken before the Plasmor head shot nerf(every hit was a headshot, same as with explosive weapons before her changes) and even afterwards incredible powerful while also being interesting to play. I only started to see other well played Saryns when ESO was added to the game, before that you just had the general molt + spore Saryn and the ones that just hammered 4 for damage in all the public games I played.
I would heavly disagree with the point that Saryn plays more organic now, given that all you do is carefully micromanage the spores for damage now where even directly killing stuff lowers damage most of the time compared to keeping spawns alive as long as you have more spawns to spread to keep the counter up. Differnet to that Saryns damage before was mostly bound to how many enemy units you have at your disposal, given that every group fueled your AOE damage, while single heavy tanked units or toxic ancients where always leftovers, that you had to get rid of with other weapons, given that you did run out of the resource that did give you massive damage. That was in my opinion very organic and you where never at any point discurraged to utilize your weapons against targets for artifical reasons. It was also more interesting in my personal opinion that Ember and Saryn used to be polarising opposites of the elemental weapon damage fueled frame design, one with massive AOE but not a lot CC/utility and single target damage, while the other one had massive CC(both from abilities and how you mod your weapons) and single target damage. yet weak AOE at high levels. Keep in mind on both frames it does no longer matter what weapon you use or elements you put on them.
I am sorry if I offendend someone, this is not really my intention. It is just my personal opinion, that grown on to me over the years, plus gets reinforces in litterally every forum thread, youtube video or if you see the frame played ingame.
Ember - Reworked and Forgotten Once Again
in Warframes
Posted · Edited by Djego27
I mostly do not talk about Ember a lot because the discussion is utterly boring. Like "Give me 4200% powerstrenght after 1h survival!" boring, where people suggest stuff they did not thought-out well, at all.
To call out somebody for having no idea of what he is talking about you problably should provide something more than a personal opinon, otherwise that makes you look like a idiot, because you look excatly like that to me.
As for your other points:
1: I hate the current Saryn just as much as the current Ember, what is funny given I did love both frames before her reworks. I do not go out to tell people Saryn is better, given that it is something that is incredible obvious.
As for 2&3 care to disagree with me? Go ahead, do so, I am all ears.