Survival missions make little sense to me.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

The disclaimer: Not everything I suggest and talk about is perfectly 100% realistic. It's merely ideal in my opinion. 

 

Why do the grineer keep sending more and more increasingly powerful and valuable troops at me in survival? After I've been there a few hours and have a few thousand kills, you'd think they'd just abandon or destroy the ship. Are the grineer so extreme in number that a few thousand soldiers is nothing for them to blink about? How about the corpus? They don't seem like the types to march to certain death for virtually no reason. 

Maybe after an half to one hour or so of survival, it should get railjacky (but you can also just use archwing). Then you destroy a ship and get onto a new one or something. 

There should also be a few more methods that the factions use to make things hard for the tenno than just forcing the tenno to use life support over and over. It could be where the situation changes with each ship you go to. If not the grineer, the corpus should at least learn that the tenno are surviving and that what they're trying isn't working. I wouldn't put it past the grineer to release the infestation into their own ship just to kill some Tenno. Change the mission to infested until you go to another ship or something. 

Obviously missions on ground should work differently, because why would I need life support on outdoor tiles?

Oh and there should be some boss eximus enemies to make things more end gamey at higher levels.

That's all I have to say about that...

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Are the grineer so extreme in number that a few thousand soldiers is nothing for them to blink about?

They're clones. Beyond the top echelons, they are entirely expendable.

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Maybe after an half to one hour or so of survival, it should get railjacky (but you can also just use archwing). Then you destroy a ship and get onto a new one or something. 

They aren't designing the game for hour+ missions.

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Obviously missions on ground should work differently, because why would I need life support on outdoor tiles?

Are there any Survivals even left on planet-side nodes?

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

Just now, peterc3 said:

They aren't designing the game for hour+ missions.

It doesn't need to be at one hour intervals. It can be like every 15 minutes tbh.

As expendable as grineer may be, the numbers seem hard to swallow. Think about all the equipment, not just the troops... It'd seem like a pointless effort to fight tenno in close combat like that. 

Idk, it's not a huge deal, but it doesn't sit right with me.

 

And you may be right about there not being any more land-based survival missions left lol.

 

[Dahx11]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

After I've been there a few hours and have a few thousand kills, you'd think they'd just abandon or destroy the ship.

Well according to Lotus, we have an operative running around looting for us while we distract the grineer. Assuming the resources are valuable to them so I don't think they'd want to destroy the ship.

Remember we get relics from these missions which apparently contain Vintage Warframe Parts and Weapon Parts (which is what the Grinner are constantly after if I remember correctly)

[CoreXCZ]

DE should let bosses free in survival. One random (from faction we're facing) should appear after every 5 or 10 minutes and try to put us down. I mean, I would be pissed if my soldiers were dying constantly and I would want to do something about it myself (just like a legless parrot Vay Hek 'MUST I DO EVERYTHING MYSELF?! ').

Aside from bosses, I would really love Corpus to just send a unit of Bursas on us (6 or 8 at once). Don't say it's not a challenge when they take one squadmate off guard and ambush him out of nowhere.

Survivals especially lack the feeling of seriousness and desperation, both from your side and from the enemy's side.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 minute ago, CoreXCZ said:

DE should let bosses free in survival. One random (from faction we're facing) should appear after every 5 or 10 minutes and try to put us down. I mean, I would be pissed if my soldiers were dying constantly and I would want to do something about it myself (just like a legless parrot Vay Hek 'MUST I DO EVERYTHING MYSELF?! ').

Aside from bosses, I would really love Corpus to just send a unit of Bursas on us (6 or 8 at once). Don't say it's not a challenge when they take one squadmate off guard and ambush him out of nowhere.

Survivals especially lack the feeling of seriousness and desperation, both from your side and from the enemy's side.

exactly

[peterc3]

Just now, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

And you may be right about there not being any more land-based survival missions left lol.

I'm pretty sure they are all Excavation now.

1 minute ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

It doesn't need to be at one hour intervals. It can be like every 15 minutes tbh.

20 would fit their current plan. 

1 minute ago, CoreXCZ said:

DE should let bosses free in survival.

There a a good number of bosses that don't work outside their arenas.

2 minutes ago, CoreXCZ said:

Don't say it's not a challenge

It's not a challenge, they are just tedious.

3 minutes ago, CoreXCZ said:

Survivals especially lack the feeling of seriousness and desperation, both from your side and from the enemy's side.

You're not the focus of the mission. It's the operative, behind the scenes, getting something from the place that they give you part of their haul every so often. Any seriousness and desperation would have to be added in because it really doesn't exist.

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

You're not the focus of the mission. It's the operative, behind the scenes, getting something from the place that they give you part of their haul every so often. Any seriousness and desperation would have to be added in because it really doesn't exist.

Sounds like the context of survival missions should maybe not be that. 

[DarthBane1]

I would have to actually agree to this. It seems bizarre to me that the grineer are fighting tooth and nail for 1000 credit cache haha. I mean, 2000 Grineer dead for 1000 creds? I can go almost anywhere else and find 1000 creds easily. Shoot, send the gustrag three to the index. 

 

I mean I can understand if it is better rewards but......

Edited September 10, 2018 by DarthBane1

[CoreXCZ]

il y a 15 minutes, peterc3 a dit :

There a a good number of bosses that don't work outside their arenas.

It's not a challenge, they are just tedious.

2

All of these bosses have a way to move around the arena, some way to move, it's just a matter of adjustments, nothing more. It's still better for DE to use them rather than making completely new bosses and mobs to appear in survival.

You obviously don't like when you don't know what you face. Survival should mean more than just keeping life support up for the operative who sneaks around. Every silly commander, even degenerate knows that doing something that doesn't work over and over again is a waste of time. What I am saying is that there should be more things to face aside from endless hordes of enemies we have to kill.

If the operative sneaks around, why not implement random event where the operative is found out or caught and you have to save his ass? Would make sense, no? He's a sneaky guy, you're the noisy one in survival.

Edited September 10, 2018 by CoreXCZ

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

One hour shouldn't even be achievable.

[AnnaCurser]

Survival has always been the wrong word for it. Its not about surviving anything really.
Its all about the air, so it should be named
Suffocation.

[Himenoinu]

21 hours ago, (XB1)Architect Prime said:

Maybe after an half to one hour or so of survival, it should get railjacky (but you can also just use archwing). Then you destroy a ship and get onto a new one or something. 

There should also be a few more methods that the factions use to make things hard for the tenno than just forcing the tenno to use life support over and over. It could be where the situation changes with each ship you go to. If not the grineer, the corpus should at least learn that the tenno are surviving and that what they're trying isn't working. I wouldn't put it past the grineer to release the infestation into their own ship just to kill some Tenno. Change the mission to infested until you go to another ship or something. 

• At the 15 minutes mark you could either hear the "Ignore your original command" and have to rescue the operative, while still maintaining the life support, after which, as you get the npc out, the game enters depressurization and you have to leg it for extraction with your secret operative alive.  You could get a bonus drop along with the C rotation loot and, at extraction be given the option to raid another ship or leave.
• Or, like you said, on later planets, the grineer could ask for support from the Kuva Fortress or deploy ghouls, while the corpus could throw in jackals or ambulas. Both ambulas and kuva mobs would be the signal that either Frohd Bek or the Kuva Fortress will beam the ship out of the material realm at the next 5 minutes mark. The tileset would contain one additional exit for the tennos to AW to the next ship or just present the options like above. On infested tilesets you'd have toxin hazard pop at 15 minutes mark that will slowly engulf the ship, applying increasing DoT pressure on the tennos, but I'm not sure what you could get on Void ones outside the blabber-mouth Vor.

As good as it would sound, I think actually AW'ing between ships would be too much of a chore to code for too little of a game experience improvement.

As for releasing the infestation, the only one stupid enough to do it seems to be Alad V, so if anything, you'd get that on Eris and it would most likely be a QoL improvement for the warframes if that would be the only shift in mechanics. Adding it to the actual toxin pressure could work though, just for consistency - although the survival would be put under question by the toxin, not by the sudden surge of volatile runners.

A lot of ideas can make the game modes better, but if we're looking at the last game mode introduced, the motto would be "stupid, but many" for these kind of challenges. And while it's stated that the enemies are just simulations, it seems that they've been actually drawn out from all the other missions to supplement the ranks for ESO 😄

[(XBOX)Architect Prime]

The spawns can break also.