2 Requests for kuva survival

[(PSN)petestacks]

I have 2 requests for kuva survival.

1. Please increase the single player enemy spawn rate.  The rate increase would greatly help going longer as a solo player to increase life support drops from enemies.

2.  Please change the kuva reward from each harvester to scale with time spent in the mission.  Some sort of increase at each 5 minute interval would be nice.  As it stand right now, you can run for 5 minutes and get, for example, 1000 kuva total.  Stay for 10 minutes, you can earn 2000.  It would be really nice to have the drop scale as the mission goes on, to make it more worthwhile to stay longer.

[--END--Rikutatis]

These two changes would make kuva survival my favorite game mode for sure. It's already fun, it just suffers from lack of scaling. 

[Xarteros]

fairly sure DE is adamant that they will not bring scaling to the game mode.

They don't wan't players 'burning themselves out', they want 'bite sized missions'

Now of course, I don't think they play the game enough to realise that running the same mission OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER is actually going to make players burn out much faster than players running a few long missions.

Not only that, but the 'bite sized' mission philosophy basically means that nothing is ever going to be reward teamwork and skill in this game. Now that Raids are gone, the only things that 'require' teammates are Tridolon caps and (depending on the skill/equipment of the player) sorties. The only way we are going to be rewarded for teamwork is if there's some reason to take endless missions beyond the norm, and stay for 1-2 hours. The only other reason to stay for longer than one rotation cycle was back with the old Void keys with Endless Missions, when you needed a part and you only had one key. You just had to keep surviving or defending until you got it. Buuuuut, now those days are over, and DE want us to be doomed to repetition. doomed to repetition. doomed to repetition.

[(PSN)VagueWisdom]

21 hours ago, Xarteros said:

-snip-

Yes. Players want more challenge & less repetition. They want to grind their skill as a player; not their luck as a gambler. Farming is only okay if the challenge is appropriate, the goal is clear, & it is achievable within an acceptable time frame. The current RNG offers only one of those, a clear goal, & is therefore unbalanced.

Also, I met one of the top Tridolon runners. The team he runs with are capable of Quintuple-Triple caps. He can also solo a Single-Triple cap, & Dual-Triple caps if he's lucky.

He uses Volt Madurai with a Riven Lanka (all the top teams run Riven mods).

Then, I knew a guy who regularly runs Mot solo for fun. He can easily solo 5hr+ if he wanted to, if his life isn't in the way, & could probably go beyond 10hrs once his Arcane collection & favorite set of Rivens are finished.

Point is, if DE has a philosophy of "bite sized missions", they're not good at following it. & if they do manage to ruin endless missions somehow, they can say goodbye to at least a majority of the hardcore & veteran Warframe players, who all account for most of their revenue, effectively destroying their game & company beyond repair.

Edited October 12, 2018 by (PS4)VagueWisdom

[peterc3]

5 hours ago, (PS4)VagueWisdom said:

who all account for most of their revenue

Mind sharing the data behind this?

[(PSN)VagueWisdom]

14 hours ago, peterc3 said:

Mind sharing the data behind this?

Unfortunately I gave into faulty thinking here, but it's my personal experience that in F2P games that players that could be considered within the categories I mentioned, the "dedicated" side of the player base, are the ones most willing to provide patronage. A person likes a service thus far, so they revisit more often that most others, until the business fails somehow.

I'm sure this can be understood.

However, if something trends enough for average players to result in them contributing as well, it can overturn the dedicated base. That possibility does exist for Warframe, so it may survive.

A game rises with dedication on the devs, publisher, & the players the game attracts. Ideally it trends, so upsetting the veteran players doesn't burn the company too bad. Then the game slowly dies due to the devs &/or publisher becoming complacent as part of their success.

Edited October 12, 2018 by (PS4)VagueWisdom

[Darkmatt3r]

If an enemy can scale why the reward is restricted? High risk, high reward anyone?

[Xarteros]

10 hours ago, (PS4)VagueWisdom said:

-snip-

I'm all for scaling, of everything. Let that be clear. It's just that DE keep digging up the excuse that they 'don't want players to burn out'. It's a horrible excuse, and it never gets nicer to hear.

What DE really need to do is get the game stable after Fortuna, and then take a month off. The entire month. They have to go home, create new WF accounts, and they have an in-house race to get to MR25 with one Focus school maxed, and at least 10 well-statted Rivens for weapons they frequently use. They need to do this all legit, no dev-hacks. It might finally show them what the game is like to a new player, how the economy really is, how much the RNG is a frustrating pain in the back. I think it'd be really good for them to get that kind of understanding.

What we need is proper reward scaling for any endless mission. We need the Relic mission scaling rewards (boosting credits/affinity/resource drop/resource chance) at each cycle. We need cycle rewards to get better, adding in secondary/multiple drops per cycle as missions wear on, and making mod rewards come pre-fused with Endo, or replaced with something else entirely. I wouldn't mind staying for 2hrs in a survival and getting a rank 8/10 Vitality instead of a 0/10 Vitality. At least I could donate the 8/10 to a new player, or melt down for more endo.

At its core, Rivens need to be taken away from being RNG to the power of 5. It's RNG to get one as a Sortie reward, RNG challenge to unlock, RNG weapon that it unlocks for, with an RNG polarity, and then infinitely perpetuating RNG stats. In order for Kuva farming to not be such a burnout grind, they need to give us a ceiling. Players will still always want more Rivens for their other weapons, and tons of weapons merit separate Rivens just for alternate builds.

I feel like it'd be more reasonable to ask DE to lessen the RNG than to boost the Kuva rewards. Every time someone asks for scaling Kuva survival, they dig in their heels, and I suspect it's the sort of issue that they're learning to ignore as more and more people ask for it. Perhaps if we find some other way around the issue, they'll be more open to the idea?

[Zi-Sui]

The worst part of riven RNG is by far the rolls. Getting one is heavy RNG too but you can buy unveiled ones dirt-cheap. And getting a good weapon one is also heavy RNG but more tolerable since there are many decent weapons to riven out. I'd be happy for a Sarpa riven you know, and made good use of my Astilla riven. And they just need to revisit the disposition so rivens can live up to what they were supposed to be, to make less popular weapons more popular.

However, getting the right stats for your riven can be downright painful even for the best farmers, but some get it easy. The worst part is there is no kind of guarantee whatsoever you will get good stats. The best you can do is reroll it so much it's more profitable to sell the damn riven for endo and sell some max rank mods for platinum and buy the riven with right stats from a lucky bastard. And with very good weapons like Lanka that may mean 400+ rerolls. Like, really?

Seriously, do something about the RNG of stats. Anything at all.

[(PSN)petestacks]

Well, seems like the scaling is a moot issue then.  Bummer, I was not aware it has been such a contested issue for a while now.  At the very least, single player enemy spawns could be increased, in kuva survival, as well as all other missions, endless or not.

 

I like Xarteros' idea of having DE actually go back and replay the game again.  I think it would open their eyes to what's it's really like on our side of things.

[(PSN)VagueWisdom]

9 hours ago, Xarteros said:

-snip-

All of that yes. Though I think we could use a combination of reduced RNG & scaling rewards.

If I could rework rivens, I'd go with Brozime's idea. That is being able to lock in favored stats. I'd also make it possible to reroll the weapon that a given riven is for, so that a Soma riven could reroll to a Tiberon riven, or a Tenora riven. A riven would only reroll to a weapon of the same category, the weapon categories being, Rifle (includes all types of machine guns), Shotgun, Sniper, Launcher, Pistol (includes the secondary shotguns), Thrown Weapon, Micro Launcher, & then the melee types. Transmuting would be the way to change categories. The stats themselves would be standardized.

Personally, I'd prefer that DE balance the roster the traditional way instead of using rivens as their proxy for balance, because they're not very accessible & have the RNG we're going on about. If the roster were balanced I'd change the riven stats to reflect the already existing mods. A rifle riven with crit chance, crit damage, & multishot, would simply use the same numbers of Point Strike, Vital Sense, & Split Chamber. With a negative stat, it would function similar to how it is now & boost the effect of the positive stats. Further, using such a riven would prevent the player from using the mods that the riven is derived from, because otherwise they would be abused more easily (which rivens sort of are abused now). Designing rivens this way would make their potential usefulness very close to equal for all weapons, & would solidify their position as "slot savers" (having a riven for crit chance, crit damage, & multishot effectively frees up 2 mod slots for other mods). Only 1 riven can be equipped at a time as it currently is.

Edited October 12, 2018 by (PS4)VagueWisdom