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  1. ok, so phantasma doesn't count because it's a high status beam weapon. Proboscis cernos doesn't count because it groups up enemies and have viral. Gunblades and tenet agendus also don't count because they're among the highest base damage of all melees -- all of that even though I specifically said in my post, the strongest weapons don't need slash. But ok, fine. If I tell you the torid will 2-3 shot grineers at Selkie SP (and one shot the butcher grunts) with a PURE toxin build and nothing but a panzer companion to spread viral, what's the excuse then? Torid doesn't count cause it's AoE? Or am I not allowed to use viral, even though the original discussion was about armor/slash? I mean at that base level if you buff yourself up enough, you could use a completely unmodded melee weapon with enough combo counter.
  2. No, we were not talking about guns, I specifically used the word 'weapons' on my post. And my ad hominem only came after your snide remark. I was polite with everyone else in this thread, including the OP. But whatever. Also you speak about the proboscis gathering enemies for electricity as if there weren't any abilities, arcanes or other means of achieving that in the game to get the same result with other weapons. I mean, this is the same thing when DE last nerfed corrosive because it was the element people ran in every build against every faction and it was considered that only thing that mattered, even though there were plenty of other things you could make work against the grineer as well, even back when they still had a ton more armor. Now they have a lot less armor and we have a lot more power creep and stronger elements overall. For sure, but I suggested that for the level range of around 250ish that the OP mentioned initially. Although as I said, with Nidus you could make that work indefinitely, by just making sure you're generating more stacks than losing with undying. Outside of Nidus, yea, you'd need shield gating/vazarin to go that long.
  3. I mean, I don't disagree with you on that. But I don't think just further nerfing armor scaling without doing anything else will really do much to help, other than just making enemies even more laughably weak. At some point we won't even need mods anymore. I'd rather see a more comprehensive rework of damage and enemies. But the last time DE attempted to do this, they just nerfed the heck out of enemy ehp, buffed elements by a lot, turned viral into a monster and gave everyone immortality with shield gating builds.
  4. Sure, and we can keep on adding more weapons to this "outlier" category of yours. Gunblades that kill with pure raw damage without the need for slash. Or heck, why not the tenet agendus? The weapon everyone is ignoring as MR fodder, and yet can also kill with just pure raw damage and a little viral as well (even when you don't use final harbinger and avoid slash procs). But hey, guess it's easier to just keep repeating what you heard instead of testing stuff out yourself.
  5. While I 100% agree with you that this is how the community as a whole perceives the issue and deals with it, I have to say it's a also a huge exaggeration. Post enemies ehp nerf, the enemies are so paper thin, even steel path ones, that you REALLY don't need slash or armor strip to deal with them in many cases (at least for the strongest weapons). Specially considering the absolute monster viral became. Just to cite two examples, most of the youtube builds showcasing phantasma and proboscis cernos will tell you to mod them for viral/heat or corrosive/heat, but I use viral/electricity for phantasma and pure electricity for proboscis (since it already has innate viral explosion) and that melts steel path grineers just as easily as the other builds. No armor strip at all, just pure electricity procs amplified by viral stacks and they die like paper. Also bear in mind the OP was specifically talking about long runs, and in that scenario of a long endurance run you absolutely must mod for toxin if you're going against corpus. Sure, at baseline level anything will kill corpus, but just saying this doesn't scale forever against them since OP was talking long runs.
  6. I mean, what melee are we talking about? Most of the melees considered top tier have forced slash procs and that's why they're considered top tier. I agree with OP, at super high levels I don't think anything is more efficient at dealing with armor than 10x stacks of viral and slash, UNLESS you do a full armor strip first with abilities. Obviously I'm talking about hypothetical really high levels in the thousands here, at baseline Steel Path level it kinda doesn't matter, a lot of things can kill them, so it's basically whatever has the highest AoE.
  7. Try Nidus. Nidus can meatshield to enemy levels in the thousands, probably level cap, by just keeping your stacks going and not running out. And his parasitic link also gives him the knockdown immunity you need from infested, so he's basically perfect for the job. I seem to remember Inaros meatshielding until around 400ish as well, but maybe that was with an ancient healer specter, can't remember. But yea, these meatshields like Inaros and Grendel can go longer with the ancient healer, but that's a more camping playstyle. But since you talked about 20min+ and level 250ish in your original post, that's why I mentioned hunter adrenaline. At that level range you can definitely meatshield.
  8. I mean, that's the beauty of Warframe's arsenal. Take what works best for each specific faction and situation. A frame that can handle hunter adrenaline/rage in their build will basically trivialize the infested's energy drain. Then just use some ability that denies status effects to avoid knockdowns and toxin. Or alternatively some mods and arcanes also serve that purpose, like primed sure footed or arcane resistance. For Corpus either consider your positioning on the tilesets more carefully (don't camp in small corridors), or take a frame that won't be helpess if their abilities are temporarily disabled. And so on and so forth. I mean if you're doing long runs, which seems to be the point of your original post, then I don't see why this matters. You basically just pick whichever tileset sounds more fun for you at that time. Selkie just seems to be the node all the youtubers spam to make their videos, but there's so many other cool tilesets to enjoy in Warframe if you're doing long runs, like Lua or Orokin Derelict. Personally, I highly recommend Disruption for a completely different and more challenging experience. I love me some Survival AoE carnage as well, don't get me wrong, but Disruption is something most of the cookie cutter youtubers ignore, but that's the real Warframe experience for me. People complain about AoE being too strong while ignoring disruption exists. In Disruption the weapon meta can be very different and AoE barely matters, so many single target weapons can truly shine. Enemies level scale a LOT faster, so if your goal is to fight high level enemies, that's by far the best mission type. It's just a completely different experience, you don't need to constrain yourself to Selkie or Mot.
  9. I disagree. I don't think Railjack is better experienced solo at all. It's more like it's safer to play Railjack solo because you know your crew is reliable and in public match making you could end up with leeches or people who don't know what they are doing. In that particular case, yea, sure. However I find Railjack a LOT more fun coop when you're either playing with friends or you're lucky enough to get a good squad in public match making. It's also a LOT more efficient and faster. In grineer Veil for example, one player does station 1, another does station 2, the pilot and the last player handle the fighters and crew ships together (which even makes blowing the crew ships more smooth). Also to be honest, I've usually had good enough experiences with public match making in Railjack. It only got a little worse with the leeches in Void Storms now that DE released tenet melees and holokeys. It's become more common to see L1 players leeching and just standing there doing almost nothing, whereas I didn't use to see that before the update.
  10. I mean, the benefits of the agendus or the other tenet melees are debatable (personally I think the agendus is very strong and you can do multiple builds for it), but even if all 4 of them were nothing but MR fodder, it doesn't change the discussion that this tenet melee system is very awkward. Imagine if a couple months from now DE releases this "meta breaking new BiS melee" and you're stuck unable to do the build you want for it because the right element won't come into the cycle. In the agendus' case it's just even worse because it already has a primary elemental base damage.
  11. Why? If the same element repeats, it means if you miss the one you want, then yea, you still have a better chance to get it before the whole cycle goes through. But it also means you could theoretically go on for months without getting the desired element. If the same element doesn't repeat, it means there's a maximum of 6-7 cycles you have to wait before you're 100% guaranteed to get the element you want. yea, like others have said, I was talking about Ergo Glast tenet melees, not the guns. You can't choose those, it's fully randomized. It's already been 12 days in a row with heat on the agendus. I mean, I just like to do specific builds for my weapons. Also the agendus is already electricity based and whatever elemental mod you add into it will combine first (the tenet bonus counts for this). So it gets kinda awkward to get the right elements you need and end up taking more mod slots.
  12. 3 cycles in a row with heat on Tenet Agendus. This is just nonsense. RNG + time gate blocking you from acquiring and fusing the weapon you want. At the very least, DE should modify it so that same element doesn't repeat 2 or more cycles in a row. I mean, there's what, 7 elements for these weapons? It's kinda absurd to think of how long you could end up taking to get the right element you need to make the build you want to. And yes, I already have the tenet agendus on a high enough %, but now I'm just waiting for the element I want. And it's been almost 2 weeks already.
  13. I mean, I honestly agree with you guys on these points. I even said in my previous post I don't think WF can ever have decent raids, because the combat mechanics and balance are waaaay too broken and out of control. Just the other day I watched a video/stream of a guy killing level 9,999 demolysts with starter weapons (mk1-braton, etc) in just a few seconds. DE made Sisters with ridiculous amounts of damage reduction stacked on top of damage reduction stacked on top of even more damage reduction and people still one shot them. Sure, people without the builds do 3 damage per shot and get frustrated, but ppl with the math/wiki knowledge have multiple ways to effortlessly one shot them. I still think eidolons were the best boss DE ever designed, and I still kinda love them (aside from the host-client lag horrible issues), but they're also trivialized af, and keep getting more and more trivialized as DE releases more power creep. The only "challenge" of eidolons is speedrunning multiples of them in one night cycle to see how many you can kill. I honestly think more coop puzzles are perfectly fine and I don't see nothing wrong with them (like old trials had), but even those could be more or less trivialized with using operators to be in two places at once or do two things at once lol. At the end of the day whatever DE tries to do with their raids, players will find some crazy synergy of powers, abilities, stacking multipliers or whatever to just trivialize them and we're back to speedrunning being the only challenge again.
  14. This guy gets it ^ I remember before DE removed self dmg from explosive weapons the meta was just the highest range melees (like meme strike whips and polearms), AoE beam weapons like amprex when beams got buffed, and ofc AoE nuke abilities from warframes as well, like mesa, saryn, etc. Even if DE nerfs explosive weapons into the ground, people will just flock to the next best thing. It won't magically make single target better. And if they nerf all weapons, people will just spam nuke frames more. To fix the single target vs AoE problem, DE would need to make more drastic changes on how combat and enemies work. But they don't seem willing (or able) to do that.
  15. I don't think it's asking too much from an online coop game to have content that is specifically designed and tailored for coordination and communication. I see absolutely nothing wrong with MMOs and coop games being solo friendly and having a bunch of solo content. But Warframe and other games of the genre have become this dictatorship of the solo playstyle. Everything has to work and function so that a solo player can hop into a queue, join a game, ignore everyone else in the team, do his own thing, and do perfectly fine. Warframe is the epitome of this. All the complaints and horror stories about trials I see in this thread are from players that tried to do random queues or some random recruit chat squad and coordination and communication fell apart. I've played several MMOs where raids and other similar content got nerfed into the ground to require each time less coordination and communication, so that automatically generated solo queues ran smoothly without the need for communication. It is OKAY if a game has 95% of SOLOable content and just 5% of content that can only be completed by a synergized squad that is communicating and cooperating among themselves. Not everything has to be nerfed (or outright removed) for the benefit of the solo experience. And I'm someone who plays solo a lot in Warframe. Trials in Warframe didn't have amazing mechanics, and honestly I wasn't even a big fan of them, but I did enjoy the coordination and communication aspects of it. Puzzles and mechanics that involved multiple people doing different things in synchrony to succeed. Warframe can't have the spongy mega boss of other game's raids that require a DPS check of multiple people because WF has so much power creep that a solo player can already easily achieve the DPS cap by stacking enough buffs. So I highly doubt WF can ever have a decent raid. But I don't see the problem with more coop content. Grineer Railjack comes somewhat close to that, just on a much smaller scale. It's benefitial for players to coordinate and each one does a different task to finish the mission a lot faster, but you can still solo it, it just takes a lot longer.
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