The Old Problems

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

7 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

Consider: Stay Invisible All The TIme, Thus Not Getting Shot

Corpus aoe DoT grenades...iron skin  Rhino unaffected. Invisible Octavia=ded.

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I mean sure.  If the map is huge and or the person using rhino didn't put in good enough range.  The point is Rhino is capable of being a good team player.  Which that combined with his iron skin means he's usable pretty much anywhere and is a valued member.

Boring is subjective.  Banshee's penalty to her power is her lack of survivability.  All frames have penalties.  Effort isn't really quantifiable.  And they already went through and reworked all the press 4 to win frames.  Excal no longer radial jav's an entire map.  Saryn doesn't delete the map anymore by just spamming 4.  Trinity can't nuke anymore let alone make everyone invincible.  Ash can't nuke by walking into an area and hitting 4 to become a blender.  etc.  Older designs are much simpler yes.  But their power is in check.

Octavia is one of the go to frames for extended endless runs because the game literally just kills itself.  And while invisibility isn't invincibility she really is practically safe outside arua's and some occasional splash.  Trinity USED to be a staple for farming back when the void was the place for grinding prime parts.  And it was only because an individual's power was much weaker.  Now that we can provide ourselves energy with several different sources and heal ourselves through various means trinity's actual need to be in squads has gone way down.  Sure she'll always be a safe pick.  But she's not really needed.

Trinity is fun. I never played as an ev Trinity... Pretty moronic tbh. Giving up survivability when all you have to do is kill the enemy effected by ev to get all the energy at once.

Abating link trinity/blessing trinity is just stupid fun. Go into any lvl mission with weapon or weapons of choice... Leave when ur ready. Whether it be an hr or 5 hrs... She is an incredibly powerful frame. Not boring like Octavia, and procs/aoe DoT effects... Dont bother her one bit. 

Remove Octavia invisibility... Shes dead in the water.

Remove any one power from trinity and she still has a whole kit to help a team and keep her alive.

[(PSN)OLLXK]

6 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Corpus aoe DoT grenades...iron skin  Rhino unaffected. Invisible Octavia=ded.

 

Thats not really an argument when you factor in mallet drawing aggro meaning you can decide how far away from those aoe grenades you want to be.... and enemies flat out not using them when the whole squads invisible if mallet isn't up.  The issue with octavia is A) her abillities interact in a way that is greater than the sum of its parts and B) she effectively has 7 potent abilities and a strong passive.

 

6 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Remove Octavia invisibility... Shes dead in the water.

Yes invisibility is a very large part of this it is among the best defensive mechanics in this game and her only defensive one but its a platform from which all her other abilities can work from she also has the best invisibility in the game as its functionally permanent outside player error as well as being a component part of an ability that enhances her movement. the argument between invisibillity and straight tanking isn't new to warframe its been a thing since the loki/rhino master race days it doesn't make either of them weaker because the other one is there. more importantly frames with one of these things in an abillity slot do not need to dedicate any other abillities to defense which lets octavia dedicate her other 6 abilities to powerful offense, herding enemies and movement. she also provides almost everything she gives to herself to her team. 

More on topic the old frames are the most available frames as literally all of the are either available in dojo or easy to make and they are simple to play (this has NO baring on player skill involved) which means people actually understand what the fame does at a glance which isnt always apparent with newer frames and honestly if a frame is poorly understood people wont use it. For example mag and nyx the old frames you have been studiously ignoring in this are not thta used and it isnt becasue the are weak as it stands nyx has some incredibly potent cc and a solid defensive ability while mag has some of the best damage in the entire game but the intracacies of how nyx' cc work are tied pretty strongly to understanding how the ai works during her 3 and mags 2 is a cluster#*!% to explain properly with all the random knowledge involved. a lot of the newer frame are more like this and less like excals tried at true pull out sword, swing sword, that worked great.  

So yeah people use old frames a lot but i'd honestly put that down to simplicity and availability rather than any real game balance issue. 

 

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)OLLXK said:

Thats not really an argument when you factor in mallet drawing aggro meaning you can decide how far away from those aoe grenades you want to be.... and enemies flat out not using them when the whole squads invisible if mallet isn't up.  The issue with octavia is A) her abillities interact in a way that is greater than the sum of its parts and B) she effectively has 7 potent abilities and a strong passive.

 

Yes invisibility is a very large part of this it is among the best defensive mechanics in this game and her only defensive one but its a platform from which all her other abilities can work from she also has the best invisibility in the game as its functionally permanent outside player error as well as being a component part of an ability that enhances her movement. the argument between invisibillity and straight tanking isn't new to warframe its been a thing since the loki/rhino master race days it doesn't make either of them weaker because the other one is there. more importantly frames with one of these things in an abillity slot do not need to dedicate any other abillities to defense which lets octavia dedicate her other 6 abilities to powerful offense, herding enemies and movement. she also provides almost everything she gives to herself to her team. 

More on topic the old frames are the most available frames as literally all of the are either available in dojo or easy to make and they are simple to play (this has NO baring on player skill involved) which means people actually understand what the fame does at a glance which isnt always apparent with newer frames and honestly if a frame is poorly understood people wont use it. For example mag and nyx the old frames you have been studiously ignoring in this are not thta used and it isnt becasue the are weak as it stands nyx has some incredibly potent cc and a solid defensive ability while mag has some of the best damage in the entire game but the intracacies of how nyx' cc work are tied pretty strongly to understanding how the ai works during her 3 and mags 2 is a cluster#*!% to explain properly with all the random knowledge involved. a lot of the newer frame are more like this and less like excals tried at true pull out sword, swing sword, that worked great.  

So yeah people use old frames a lot but i'd honestly put that down to simplicity and availability rather than any real game balance issue. 

 

Lets wait till octavia prime hits, then continue this argument.

[Shadowh4nd]

On 2018-11-15 at 4:21 PM, Hecking_Birb said:

Update the older warframes to feel almost like they were released last month.

I agree that their cookie cutter roles make them very strong, but I disagree philosophically that we should nerf anything because other frames aren't as good. My logic behind that is because we'd be inhibiting fun and making the game more bland across the board in fairness. In a mostly PvE centric game, balance is more lenient on overpoweredness, so it would be more fun and reasonable that everything perform exceptionally well than none.

On 2018-11-15 at 9:44 PM, Hecking_Birb said:

You know who does it even better? ( ( ( Octavia ) ) )

I have another thread open completely agreeing with you. It's too easy for her to be too good.