The Old Problems

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

2 minutes ago, Hecking_Birb said:

You're right, Rhino can in fact go to high level content. Good guns make that possible. You know who does it even better? ( ( ( Octavia ) ) ). I feel like a broken record here, but with everyone saying "Rhino isn't going to be obsolete", it's just a really good point. Invisibility is the best scaling way to not die, her damage abilities are nigh unparallelled, and her CC is great. She's not fun, I'll give you that, but she does the job better than him.

(I also personally think she looks better but that's pure opinion)

Iron skin handles grenades, aoe effects, status procs, magnetic and radiation fields, weapons fire and basically any and all  damage sources better than invisibility.

[Hecking_Birb]

1 hour ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Better? No... Rhinos buff is consistent. Allies need only be in range... No squatting or shooting in time, or hopping in time... Just take the damage buff and move along.

Consider the following:

People stay in one place for a good amount of time, unless it's a mobile mission. Amp works in one place. No chance of missing the buff.

Metronome (3) is easy to get a buff from if the Octavia has a very repetitive pattern on it, which pretty much everyone should have.

Conclusion: More buffs, better buffs, simple buffs. No missing them.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, Hecking_Birb said:

Consider the following:

People stay in one place for a good amount of time, unless it's a mobile mission. Amp works in one place. No chance of missing the buff.

Metronome (3) is easy to get a buff from if the Octavia has a very repetitive pattern on it, which pretty much everyone should have.

Conclusion: More buffs, better buffs, simple buffs. No missing them.

Nothing more simple than receiving a dmg buff from roar.. Without having to do anything but be in range. 

Not many people relying on Octavia buffs to knock out Eidolons.

[Hecking_Birb]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Nothing more simple than receiving a dmg buff from roar.. Without having to do anything but be in range. 

Not many people relying on Octavia buffs to knock out Eidolons.

Not many people relying on Rhino either. Chroma's the go-to there. And the roar buff is all nice and good, but it's *so easy* to miss the buff. It's easy to get it, and since you keep it after leaving range, it's sorta nice, but Amp is reliable. Always know you can get a buff there, whether you're late or not.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

3 minutes ago, Hecking_Birb said:

Not many people relying on Rhino either. Chroma's the go-to there. And the roar buff is all nice and good, but it's *so easy* to miss the buff. It's easy to get it, and since you keep it after leaving range, it's sorta nice, but Amp is reliable. Always know you can get a buff there, whether you're late or not.

Octavia is boring. But ur obviously a main and probably made this thread to troll everyone with ur Octavia love affair.

This isnt me saying rhino is better or worse at this point... Im telling u rhino is still viable and will continue to be. Hes also the second most used frame. Take that for what it is.

[Hecking_Birb]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Octavia is boring. But ur obviously a main and probably made this thread to troll everyone with ur Octavia love affair.

This isnt me saying rhino is better or worse at this point... Im telling u rhino is still viable and will continue to be. Hes also the second most used frame. Take that for what it is.

I don't like Octavia. I find her boring, obviously. My main, as I've said in this thread, is Harrow. Close behind, Nidus, Nezha, such respectable frames. What I'm saying is Octavia is just better than Rhino at pretty much anything but Index. My thought for why Rhino is so well-used is that a lot of earlier-on players use Rhino, and he does still prove to be helpful in Index, which a lot of people run. I'm sure a lot of people use Banshee too, but that doesn't make her a good warframe.

[Hecking_Birb]

1 minute ago, moostar95 said:

I really hope you re read your last statement about most used frames. People use a frame like rhino because he is very versatile. Most frames are based off their kits.

Okay, fine, whatever, Rhino is good and I'm wrong. I'm over here talking about how the old frames are nearly unanimously one-trick ponies that, yes, technically can use their whole kit well, but the warframes don't need to. They don't get any benefits from using all their abilities besides just, well, more abilities. It's all additive, not multiplicative. But sure, everyone literally only talk about Rhino. God, he is SUCH a boring frame, but this IS NOT THE TOPIC. 

Yes, older warframes work. They work just fine. In fact, it's the original set of warframes that have been proven to consistently be useful despite all of the new warframes dropping. The problem isn't how well they work, it's how simple and bland they are. It's how they promote the idea that Warframe is all about "press button to win", even though that couldn't be farther from the truth. The frames are good, how easy they are to abuse is bad.

And really, is nobody going to say anything at all about increasing drops based on level? It's gone entirely unmentioned, because everyone's talking about Rhino. We already get bonus affinity from higher levels, so why not drops?

Please, just talk about anything other than Rhino.

[Atsia]

5 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

Okay, fine, whatever, Rhino is good and I'm wrong. I'm over here talking about how the old frames are nearly unanimously one-trick ponies that, yes, technically can use their whole kit well, but the warframes don't need to. They don't get any benefits from using all their abilities besides just, well, more abilities. It's all additive, not multiplicative. But sure, everyone literally only talk about Rhino. God, he is SUCH a boring frame, but this IS NOT THE TOPIC. 

Yes, older warframes work. They work just fine. In fact, it's the original set of warframes that have been proven to consistently be useful despite all of the new warframes dropping. The problem isn't how well they work, it's how simple and bland they are. It's how they promote the idea that Warframe is all about "press button to win", even though that couldn't be farther from the truth. The frames are good, how easy they are to abuse is bad.

And really, is nobody going to say anything at all about increasing drops based on level? It's gone entirely unmentioned, because everyone's talking about Rhino. We already get bonus affinity from higher levels, so why not drops?

Please, just talk about anything other than Rhino.

I mean, DE had already said/implied they don't want true scaling drops since they don't want to incentive long runs, They want and prefer the "run for 20 minutes and extract" playstyle that exists.

[Dabnician]

16 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

All of the Oldest Warframes Are Stupidly Strong For Farming, and That Sucks.

Because the forums wants everything nerfed

11 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

She's not fun, I'll give you that, but she does the job better than him.

Shes not fun because were stuck in a 30 second loop of the same music over and over and over, you need to have a whole team of octavas for it to be anywhere close to fun.

[selig_fay]

Meg old warframe. At the moment the nerfs brought her to a state of unplayble. The problem is that most warframes are released under 30 levels of mobs. You don't need a nova one if Khora can kill the whole low level map in AFK mode. 

I, for example, play Inaros. His skills trash, let's be honest. But he have 6k+ hp + armor and in principle nothing more is needed. Kill can be weapons, heal / support can be school focus / Specters. This is enough even for 150 LVL. But in a normal group it is better to take Gara or Trinity (maby frost / Nezha, but never play him). Why? Because Inaros skills is trash. They can only control and nothing more (healing doesn't matter for most frames). Which means we need extra tank in the group. And when you consider that mobs can simply be out of control. That's it, simple math, Gara / frost makes more Inaros. And so with almost all new frames.

The problem isn't the old frames. Just new not meet the needs of players. Except for the ass, of course. xD

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

16 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

I don't like Octavia. I find her boring, obviously. My main, as I've said in this thread, is Harrow. Close behind, Nidus, Nezha, such respectable frames. What I'm saying is Octavia is just better than Rhino at pretty much anything but Index. My thought for why Rhino is so well-used is that a lot of earlier-on players use Rhino, and he does still prove to be helpful in Index, which a lot of people run. I'm sure a lot of people use Banshee too, but that doesn't make her a good warframe.

Banshee isnt used often.

Octavia is a good frame but her survivability in endgame content is laughable compared to Rhino, especially against corpus.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

13 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

Okay, fine, whatever, Rhino is good and I'm wrong. I'm over here talking about how the old frames are nearly unanimously one-trick ponies that, yes, technically can use their whole kit well, but the warframes don't need to. They don't get any benefits from using all their abilities besides just, well, more abilities. It's all additive, not multiplicative. But sure, everyone literally only talk about Rhino. God, he is SUCH a boring frame, but this IS NOT THE TOPIC. 

Yes, older warframes work. They work just fine. In fact, it's the original set of warframes that have been proven to consistently be useful despite all of the new warframes dropping. The problem isn't how well they work, it's how simple and bland they are. It's how they promote the idea that Warframe is all about "press button to win", even though that couldn't be farther from the truth. The frames are good, how easy they are to abuse is bad.

And really, is nobody going to say anything at all about increasing drops based on level? It's gone entirely unmentioned, because everyone's talking about Rhino. We already get bonus affinity from higher levels, so why not drops?

Please, just talk about anything other than Rhino.

Octavia is nothing but press buttons to win. LOL

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

59 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Inaros 2 and 3 are in needed of changes. But his 1 and four arent trash. His one and 4 has great cc and healing. Sorry if you play dps frames exclusivity to not see the useage of his kit mate. Then again, i main him so im biased.

Agreed

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

On 2018-11-16 at 12:04 AM, Hecking_Birb said:

I don't like Octavia. I find her boring, obviously. My main, as I've said in this thread, is Harrow. Close behind, Nidus, Nezha, such respectable frames. What I'm saying is Octavia is just better than Rhino at pretty much anything but Index. My thought for why Rhino is so well-used is that a lot of earlier-on players use Rhino, and he does still prove to be helpful in Index, which a lot of people run. I'm sure a lot of people use Banshee too, but that doesn't make her a good warframe.

Okay I gotta lmao at this.  It doesn't matter if octavia is technically better in some aspects.  People need to play around her abilities to get the benefits.  Where as with rhino's roar and stomp people just need to exist and they benefit from it.  Also lmao at you thinking Banshee isn't a good warframe.

To your over arching point i'd say you're pretty wrong.  If anything stifles the use of newer frames it's likely how you get them.  Nidus is pretty great for extended runs.  But he's annoying to get.  (as an example)  Also I'm pretty sure octavia existing is counting your main point.  Which was the oldies are the besties.  But you're sitting here pretty hard defending octavia being better than a tried and true oldie.

[selig_fay]

Il y a 15 heures, moostar95 a dit :

Inaros 2 and 3 are in needed of changes. But his 1 and four arent trash. His one and 4 has great cc and healing. Sorry if you play dps frames exclusivity to not see the useage of his kit mate. Then again, i main him so im biased.

And yet, if inaras and gets in the group, I don't see much spam these abilities. People don't have enough energy? 

Yes, his 1 and 4 are good, but only in the corridors. In open spaces (and there are a lot of them now), you can't normally control everyone, you can't heal, because most people don't need it without a resist. Accordingly, you only need one, not to engage in garbage and crush all with Staticor.  If Inaros could redirect damage to itself with allies, perhaps heal would make more sense. But at the moment I don't see any reason to use his skills at all. Well, except for the augment 4 xD

[selig_fay]

Il y a 2 heures, moostar95 a dit :

I main inaros and solo all of the open spaces without the need of teammates.

I play Inaros solo, not using his skill and realy fast kill enemy with weapons. And? This is more effective than spamming 1 or 4. The school and the mist heal me. 6-8k hp the only thing useful in Inaros. Okay, I'll admit that 1 and 4 aren't so bad, but they're useless to the group most of the time. And not very useful to inaros himself. Is that kill 500 LVL dagger that not everyone does, and again there are alternatives. 4 has 1 more problem, it needs to be charged. I'd rather kill 15-100 enemies instead of standing still. 1 better cope with the control, but personally I do not need it most of the time. 

Maybe the weapons I now use are too powerful and require nerf, but then again, Inaros isn't a very good controller and if he doesn't give out DPS yet, then he's simply not needed in the group, and will have problems in solo. Yes, he's fat, but then the game is about killing mobs.

[Spectre-8]

Nekros > all of your squad giimicks and bs that make you rely on other people for farming.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-16 at 6:15 AM, Dabnician said:

Because the forums wants everything nerfed

Shes not fun because were stuck in a 30 second loop of the same music over and over and over, you need to have a whole team of octavas for it to be anywhere close to fun.

***not nerfed, just reworked to be more evenly good

and no, octavia is boring because she's just timers.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-16 at 11:12 AM, zhellon said:

Meg old warframe. At the moment the nerfs brought her to a state of unplayble. The problem is that most warframes are released under 30 levels of mobs. You don't need a nova one if Khora can kill the whole low level map in AFK mode. 

I, for example, play Inaros. His skills trash, let's be honest. But he have 6k+ hp + armor and in principle nothing more is needed. Kill can be weapons, heal / support can be school focus / Specters. This is enough even for 150 LVL. But in a normal group it is better to take Gara or Trinity (maby frost / Nezha, but never play him). Why? Because Inaros skills is trash. They can only control and nothing more (healing doesn't matter for most frames). Which means we need extra tank in the group. And when you consider that mobs can simply be out of control. That's it, simple math, Gara / frost makes more Inaros. And so with almost all new frames.

The problem isn't the old frames. Just new not meet the needs of players. Except for the ass, of course. xD

Mag is good, swine.

And yes, technically the old frames are the ones that do what players want. The thing I don't like is that technically players barely need many things, so if all newer warframes did that, variety would get stale really quickly. I want the playstyle of "do really well for your team" to be more popular than "do specifically these frames and don't have fun", but that can't happen if the older warframes just do certain things really well.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-16 at 2:10 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Banshee isnt used often.

Octavia is a good frame but her survivability in endgame content is laughable compared to Rhino, especially against corpus.

 

Consider: Stay Invisible All The TIme, Thus Not Getting Shot

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-16 at 2:11 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Octavia is nothing but press buttons to win. LOL

correct. still potent. just boring.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-17 at 1:17 AM, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Okay I gotta lmao at this.  It doesn't matter if octavia is technically better in some aspects.  People need to play around her abilities to get the benefits.  Where as with rhino's roar and stomp people just need to exist and they benefit from it.  Also lmao at you thinking Banshee isn't a good warframe.

To your over arching point i'd say you're pretty wrong.  If anything stifles the use of newer frames it's likely how you get them.  Nidus is pretty great for extended runs.  But he's annoying to get.  (as an example)  Also I'm pretty sure octavia existing is counting your main point.  Which was the oldies are the besties.  But you're sitting here pretty hard defending octavia being better than a tried and true oldie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's really easy to miss Rhino's Roar. Never even really get the buff, and when I do, it's when someone else is doing all the work. Stomp is alright, but if you really care about CC, so many other frames do it better. Rhino's schtick isn't CC. It's to act like a Rhino.

My overarching point is simply that old warframes are boring and can totally just use one ability ever without a penalty. That's the problem. They do their job really well, yes, but it takes so little effort to do well with them, unlike various other (mostly newer) warframes.

It's sort of hard to get them, but I can't see that really substantially stifling play rates.

And no, Octavia's existence does not counter my point. She doesn't make rounds go faster, she can't facetank damage, and while she is a JOAT in how many things she does well, they aren't particularly game-breaking or essential to any teams. Trinity, on the other hand, proves to be a staple in any farming team, because she can just spam one ability for free energy.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-15 at 6:48 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Iron skin handles grenades, aoe effects, status procs, magnetic and radiation fields, weapons fire and basically any and all  damage sources better than invisibility.

Grenades don't get thrown at thin air, same with AOE effects and guns, and while it doesn't help with procs, most procs aren't going to end up hitting her anyways.

Side note, Nezha does Rhino better too. First ability offers good chip damage and status effect cleansing for allies, second ability makes enemies take more damage, third ability works as pretty much a slightly worse Iron Skin except that the augment allows him to also help his team, and his fourth ability is just Stomp's effect except it also helps his second ability, adding encouragement for doing more than just pressing a button.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-11-17 at 12:55 PM, Spectre-8 said:

Nekros > all of your squad giimicks and bs that make you rely on other people for farming.

Nekros is bad.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

1 hour ago, Hecking_Birb said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's really easy to miss Rhino's Roar. Never even really get the buff, and when I do, it's when someone else is doing all the work. Stomp is alright, but if you really care about CC, so many other frames do it better. Rhino's schtick isn't CC. It's to act like a Rhino.

I mean sure.  If the map is huge and or the person using rhino didn't put in good enough range.  The point is Rhino is capable of being a good team player.  Which that combined with his iron skin means he's usable pretty much anywhere and is a valued member.

1 hour ago, Hecking_Birb said:

My overarching point is simply that old warframes are boring and can totally just use one ability ever without a penalty. That's the problem. They do their job really well, yes, but it takes so little effort to do well with them, unlike various other (mostly newer) warframes.

Boring is subjective.  Banshee's penalty to her power is her lack of survivability.  All frames have penalties.  Effort isn't really quantifiable.  And they already went through and reworked all the press 4 to win frames.  Excal no longer radial jav's an entire map.  Saryn doesn't delete the map anymore by just spamming 4.  Trinity can't nuke anymore let alone make everyone invincible.  Ash can't nuke by walking into an area and hitting 4 to become a blender.  etc.  Older designs are much simpler yes.  But their power is in check.

1 hour ago, Hecking_Birb said:

It's sort of hard to get them, but I can't see that really substantially stifling play rates.

And no, Octavia's existence does not counter my point. She doesn't make rounds go faster, she can't facetank damage, and while she is a JOAT in how many things she does well, they aren't particularly game-breaking or essential to any teams. Trinity, on the other hand, proves to be a staple in any farming team, because she can just spam one ability for free energy.

Octavia is one of the go to frames for extended endless runs because the game literally just kills itself.  And while invisibility isn't invincibility she really is practically safe outside arua's and some occasional splash.  Trinity USED to be a staple for farming back when the void was the place for grinding prime parts.  And it was only because an individual's power was much weaker.  Now that we can provide ourselves energy with several different sources and heal ourselves through various means trinity's actual need to be in squads has gone way down.  Sure she'll always be a safe pick.  But she's not really needed.