De Says You're Not Playing The Right Way

[MageMeat]

Is it not obvious? He saying that the devs are doing it wrong. Their design methods do not help the game in most cases, perhaps because they believe that it works better when roles are designated, not created.

A game is something meant for gamers, and the general populace to enjoy. The changes that DE often makes retract from that fun, unique experience by forcing players into a way of playing.

It's painful to admit, but Warframe is going in the wrong direction.

[Ganpot]

The thing which really displeases me about the current state of Warframe is that DE seems to only want DPS and crowd control characters.  People are playing Rhino as a tank?  Well, deal with it, now he's a DPS.  People want to use Ember and Trinity as tanks?  No way in hell; Ember is now a straight up glass cannon (with the world's smallest cannon), and trinity now has a little bit of crowd control with less survivability (at least she still has Blessing...). 

 

At this point, Frost is the only tanky character left, and if his Snowglobe gets nerfed (which looks likely), then the only difference between characters will be which flavor of "press 4 to win" you want to use. 

 

Not to mention that DE doesn't seem to understand how to balance even straight-up DPS characters.  Rhino was broken for months after his Iron Skin changes; now the same fate seems to be in store for Ember.  Mag has been in a perpetual state of uselessness for a long time, and giving Pull a massive amount of damage doesn't fix her core problems.  Meanwhile, Volt is still crying himself to sleep after his supposed fix, and almost every other warframe consists of one or two amazing powers mixed in with 2 or 3 useless ones.  The game hasn't been improving in this area, it's actually been getting worse. 

[ThePresident777]

Nerfs are not creative, they are cheap, reductionist, destructive.  Warframe needs more game modes, not nerfs.

[NalkorRN]

After uninstalling warframe and sleeping on it, I think I'm more perturbed today than yesterday.  

Two different classes were nerfed and ruined for their player base, and what was the reason?   Players aren't playing Ember and Trinity the way DE intended the classes to be played. Okay? So?  Were you dev's like my next door neighbor's kid that always told me I wasn't playing with his ninja turtle action figures the right way? I needed to play the game HIS way?  

You've made FOURTEEN different classes.  Look at most games, any generation, any console.  That's a lot of choices, and yet, they all feel really similar, don't they?  You've whitewashed a lot of them, and squandered your opportunities to create unique experiences, that's not our fault.  As players, we became creative, and found utility in frames that didn't seem to have as much as the rest.  

People figured out Trinity and Ember could be viable support tanks.  Instead of adapting with your players choices, skills, and styles, and applauding their creative uses, you chose the obtuse route.  You could have possibly created a NEW support role, or a NEW glass cannon, because the one's you intended evolved differently.  (which I thought is what OP Nova is anyway)  No, instead you chose to tell us we were doing it wrong and you needed to change them in reaction to our use of them improperly.  

Well, I'm no longer a customer, and wish you well on your future endeavors having enjoyed several months of this ever-evolving game.  I also wish you good luck on your console launch, but I don't know how well you'll do with a fanbase that feels they're being told they're not playing your game the right way.  You're inheriting an mmo fan base: they're creative, they're tactical, they're passionate.  They don't play games wrong.  You're just telling them they are.  Listen to your fans.

Pretty much this a thousand times over. Many players absolutely hate being told they are being played a game wrong by the developers and changes are implemented to allow the 'vision' to be the only remotely viable method. At that point, you're gonna see a mass exodus over time and it'll not end well.

[lautalocos]

If famous artists started walking into galleries and splashed white-out onto their best works people would be pretty displeased too.

okay, you win. DE should never again touch this game, as incomplete, broken and unbalanced as it is. after all, a famous artist shouldn´t walk into a gallery and splash whiteout in his best works, im i right?

[theammostore]

After uninstalling warframe and sleeping on it, I think I'm more perturbed today than yesterday.  

Two different classes were nerfed and ruined for their player base, and what was the reason?   Players aren't playing Ember and Trinity the way DE intended the classes to be played. Okay? So?  Were you dev's like my next door neighbor's kid that always told me I wasn't playing with his ninja turtle action figures the right way? I needed to play the game HIS way?  

You've made FOURTEEN different classes.  Look at most games, any generation, any console.  That's a lot of choices, and yet, they all feel really similar, don't they?  You've whitewashed a lot of them, and squandered your opportunities to create unique experiences, that's not our fault.  As players, we became creative, and found utility in frames that didn't seem to have as much as the rest.  

People figured out Trinity and Ember could be viable support tanks.  Instead of adapting with your players choices, skills, and styles, and applauding their creative uses, you chose the obtuse route.  You could have possibly created a NEW support role, or a NEW glass cannon, because the one's you intended evolved differently.  (which I thought is what OP Nova is anyway)  No, instead you chose to tell us we were doing it wrong and you needed to change them in reaction to our use of them improperly.  

Well, I'm no longer a customer, and wish you well on your future endeavors having enjoyed several months of this ever-evolving game.  I also wish you good luck on your console launch, but I don't know how well you'll do with a fanbase that feels they're being told they're not playing your game the right way.  You're inheriting an mmo fan base: they're creative, they're tactical, they're passionate.  They don't play games wrong.  You're just telling them they are.  Listen to your fans.

 

Kbai have fun.

 

FTW i enjoyed the new changes. Made things different and make sense.

 

EDIT: and more challenging and thus FUN.

Edited September 8, 2013 by theammostore

[CloudPies]

FTW i enjoyed the new changes. Made things different and make sense.

Ember skills:

• 25 energy - single target DoT
• 50 energy - close range DoT
• 75 energy - stationary DoT
• 100 energy - mobile DoT

Uh.... huh....

Edited September 8, 2013 by CloudPies

[syle]

After uninstalling warframe and sleeping on it, I think I'm more perturbed today than yesterday.  

Two different classes were nerfed and ruined for their player base, and what was the reason?   Players aren't playing Ember and Trinity the way DE intended the classes to be played. Okay? So?  Were you dev's like my next door neighbor's kid that always told me I wasn't playing with his ninja turtle action figures the right way? I needed to play the game HIS way?  

You've made FOURTEEN different classes.  Look at most games, any generation, any console.  That's a lot of choices, and yet, they all feel really similar, don't they?  You've whitewashed a lot of them, and squandered your opportunities to create unique experiences, that's not our fault.  As players, we became creative, and found utility in frames that didn't seem to have as much as the rest.  

People figured out Trinity and Ember could be viable support tanks.  Instead of adapting with your players choices, skills, and styles, and applauding their creative uses, you chose the obtuse route.  You could have possibly created a NEW support role, or a NEW glass cannon, because the one's you intended evolved differently.  (which I thought is what OP Nova is anyway)  No, instead you chose to tell us we were doing it wrong and you needed to change them in reaction to our use of them improperly.  

Well, I'm no longer a customer, and wish you well on your future endeavors having enjoyed several months of this ever-evolving game.  I also wish you good luck on your console launch, but I don't know how well you'll do with a fanbase that feels they're being told they're not playing your game the right way.  You're inheriting an mmo fan base: they're creative, they're tactical, they're passionate.  They don't play games wrong.  You're just telling them they are.  Listen to your fans.

 

I used to love one company

than they told me I didn't rly had fun in diablo 2 and I was playing it all wrong

aren't we grateful that they doubled it?

yeah im smelling similar pattern here

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

okay, you win. DE should never again touch this game, as incomplete, broken and unbalanced as it is. after all, a famous artist shouldn´t walk into a gallery and splash whiteout in his best works, im i right?

Or they could actually apply changes that aren't utterly hamfisted. This has been compared to WoW because the WoW forums are universally whiny whenever patch day occurs, but blizzard nerfs and buffs are not usually flat out negative to this degree. It was very uncommon in WoW that they'd remove a good portion (or in some cases most if not all) of an entire classes utility and call it a week. Was it ever perfect? No, far from it and we were usually warned when big changes were coming. But it was better than a dice roll on whether or not we'd be able to log in the next day and find out that our favorite thing was now useless because some monkey on the dev team decided "to add challenge to their playstyle."

 

I've said it before but if this is DE's best foot forward they really really have to do better. They're basically barely getting by from what I've seen the devs admit and most of that comes from the founders. What are they going to do when the founder program closes? Or how about when the PS4 version launches with this game's utterly bizarre anti-newbie design scheme that seems to go out of its way to alienate anyone who hasn't been playing for 200+ hours as if DE wants to minimize player retention.

[guidfail]

It's an open beta - they can and will change stuff, because they're the ones building it to suit their vision.  They have, rather gracefully I might add, involved the community in helping to design the game.  But it's help, limited to input - in the end, the people that own the IP will make the decisions they feel are best for the product they are working to create.

 

Your opinions may be valid, but your participation as a fan is by design limited.  Might be frustrating, but it's the truth.

[CY13ERPUNK]

clearly the mmorpg stereotypes have corrupted the tenno gene pool

[KvotheTheArcane1]

+1, the frames keep being shunted into one of 2 categories really, CC support, or DPS, and anything outside of that gets changed (Rhino IS tank, trinity link, ember overheat), and even CC seems to be getting slightly worse (vauban bastille, but can't really judge from that, it was one CC power which was "OP")

[Cleesus]

OP you are wasting you time replying to some of the people on these forums. I agree with your post and This game is on it's way off my computer in the near future(haven't actively played in 2-3 months anyway)

[Big_Ed]

Im not goin quit the game. I do sympathize an agree with the OP tho. 

 

I used vortex as a sling shot mobility skill it was what made vauban "vauban" for me. I guess its my fault for haveing an emotional attachment so such a simple feature ;[

[Zeally]

I disagree with the OP entirely. Bastille has the capability to disable entire spawns of enemies, it was entirely overpowered in the right hands, if you disagree, you were doing it wrong. Its nerf enables you to make use of his other powers, instead of just relying on one. Disagree? Tell me how his other powers fair against high defense enemy damage reductions. And then tell me how bastille wasn't overpowered when it was capable of disabling any amount of enemies if you knew what you were doing.

 

You should have seen Link and Overheats nerf coming. How? Check out Iron Skin. It got reworked, and  even took several patches to make it halfway viable, even though Rhino was already effectively tanky for all intents and purposes.

 

Ember was originally supposed to be the anti infested Warframe, and somehow wound up turning into a god tier tank, all because a change to Overheat to make it useful, made it overly useful. Its still got damage reduction, all be it half of what it had now, but its still there, and all of Embers abilities have the chance to cause enemies to go into a panic. Ember is effectively a bruiser, and does ample damage where she was originally intended to. And that would be against infested.

 

Trinity and her invulnerability NEVER made any sense. She is a "healer/utility" Warframe. Not a tank. At least it wasn't entirely removed, just reduced like Embers, and Rhino's in effect. Some of her abilities now have a damage effect, or an increased one, to make up for it, so it wasn't an entire loss in all respects.

 

If anything, you should be thanking DE. Why? Because they aren't making the game easier than it was. It's going to take effort to do things for a change, so long as we don't get any more over the top abilities.

 

Here's where you think I've forgotten about Nova right? No, I haven't. Most people's biggest concern is that Molecular Prime is too strong. Its damage eventually winds up being inefficient once you what? Move deeper into higher enemy level territory. And in turn, its damage increase to enemies by double winds up being its only saving grace. So what if it still mostly kills the mooks (trash mobs). 

 

All this topic serves to do is incite crybabies into rage fits about having their IWIN buttons "removed", or as I'd like to say, brought into line.

 

Go ahead and leave if you must, but good luck finding a game that doesn't get stale, or that has a team like DE working on it.

 

If you think a game that has barely even been out a year, still has content being implemented in what some would call a "testing phase", as its labeled as an open beta after all (oh god, I used the word beta... get over it), won't have its bumps and bruises along the way, then do just as you have. Uninstall and move along, and for the love of god, don't play anymore alpha/beta games, because they might change something on you.

 

Those of us that still enjoy Warframe for what it has still to offer will be here. It'll just be slightly quieter.

[Lordician]

I know that the rhino iron-skin nerf and most if not all of the bad ones from this update came from Scott (so is the really bad skillset they have for Necro). I genuinely don't know why he's still on the team since I've yet to see evidence of his doing actually improve the game.

 

I have been trying to avoid this part of the forums since i read some posts people made about the nerf, but now i stumbled upon this and i have seen something that i really got to comment on:

"I genuinely don't know why he's still on the team since I've yet to see evidence of his doing actually improve the game."

 

That is the most ridiculous and most offending post i have seen so far.

Without Scott, most of the frames wouldn't have any skillsets or wouldn't be revised!

Saying that he should not be in the team is just so.... narrow minded.

 

Seriously, yes of course, taking away invincibility is gonna impact the way people play and leave some strategies in the dust.

But you got to understand that invincibility is not the way you should be playing this.

Of course there are these moments where your whole team is downed in a heavy gunfire situation and you are the only one to save them.

And of course, you could use Trinity's Link to run in and save the day.

That gives people the chance to work together to survive longer.

But this also means that Trinity was able to just do that in any case without even minding her own safety.

 

Come on guys, why so much hate on Scott.

He is trying to make the game better and of course, some strategies will be broken by these changes.

But in the end, it is better to not have people who can abuse such godmode skills.

This game isn't meant to have godmode for obvious reasons, one of which is that it ill make some things too easy.

 

I am a big user of Trinity AND Ember AND Vauban.

I will feel all these changes for sure!

Sure, i used Link for the invincibility and Ember's Overheat for a very strong defensive buff and Vauban's Bastille for trapping all them infested in a defensive mission.

But i can also see how them being (at least near) invincible breaks the game.

It makes things that are supposed to be hard, very easy.

 

Get over it and think of new strategies that isn't involving invincibility.

And yes, Nova is still OP, use it while you can because this is just a small part of the revisions that will be done.

Eventually they will nerf Nova, or well, revise her.

But i think Scott is the only person behind doing that and it takes some time to look into frames and see how it needs to be changed exactly.

Your random screams of something being OP don't help.

Rather help him find solutions that isn't just saying: "Lower the damage numbers".

Lower them to what? 1?

 

Sorry for the long post, but the forums here have really made me angry with some people.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Lordician

[Mietz]

Or they could actually apply changes that aren't utterly hamfisted. This has been compared to WoW because the WoW forums are universally whiny whenever patch day occurs, but blizzard nerfs and buffs are not usually flat out negative to this degree. It was very uncommon in WoW that they'd remove a good portion (or in some cases most if not all) of an entire classes utility and call it a week. 

 

You know what else Blizzard has that DE doesn't?

A patch-server dedicated to rooting out these problems in advance. A server where everyone got maxlvl gear and access to end-tier content. A server where we could actually beta test S#&$ instead of being milked for $$$ or needing to grind for a month to get to the testing.

 

The justification for having the RM store live at this stage is a flimsy smokescreen to make it seem like this is beta so they can pretend like we are "testing" this game while in reality we are just regular customers and DE is making a killing on an unfinished product.

[Mietz]

Rather help him find solutions that isn't just saying: "Lower the damage numbers".

Lower them to what? 1?

 

I'm not getting paid to do their job for them. Sorry.

[-Narauko-]

You're inheriting an mmo fan base: they're creative, they're tactical, they're passionate.  They don't play games wrong.  You're just telling them they are.  Listen to your fans.

 

And we're quite used to nerfs, fixs, buffs, changes and pandas. Ember's not a tank get over it.

[NalkorRN]

It's an open beta - they can and will change stuff, because they're the ones building it to suit their vision.  They have, rather gracefully I might add, involved the community in helping to design the game.  But it's help, limited to input - in the end, the people that own the IP will make the decisions they feel are best for the product they are working to create.

 

Your opinions may be valid, but your participation as a fan is by design limited.  Might be frustrating, but it's the truth.

When a game reaches Open Beta, it's time to stop changing balance left and right and instead focus on the nasty game-breaking bugs instead. I don't mean like Overheat allowing a lot of tanking game-breaking, I'm talking the kind of bug where it's 'Fight Ambulas at high setting and your graphics card @(*()$ explodes and you need a replacement' kind of bug. The game will not magically improve once you add a [RELEASED] tag onto it. Alpha is proof of concept and that the idea works and goes on for a LONG time, Closed Beta is where you start to finalize the product for release and are allowed a few major gameplay tweaks. Open Beta is when you knuckle down and hope you've gotten the gameplay tweaks out of the way because now it's focus on super-nasty bugs and stress testing almost entirely. Every major gameplay change during Open Beta makes it that much harder to focus on the nastier bugs prior to release. At this point, Planetside 2 will be considered more ready for release almost a year ago than Warframe is right now.

[Mosychuk]

The point to this thread is..... there's no point, really.

 

To get this straight, so i understand better:

 

You're angry because DE, who have every right to alter the game how they see fit, made changes in their BETA game. In other words, to their unfinished product, they changed some mechanics to make things work more how they wanted them to, before the big retail release in which everything will ultimately work exactly how DE wanted them to. To this fact, your upset that you can't continue to test their game for them in a way you enjoy, and you'd rather DE had little to no choice in this matter because you're upset, so you've stopped supporting their release of a finished product they can be proud of.

 

Did I miss anything? Whose game are we playing anyways? Whose UNFINISHED, BETA VERSION game, the was NEVER intended to have the same mechanics at retail launch because the game is a WORK IN PROGRESS.. to highlight some keywords.

[CloudPies]

Whose game are we playing anyways? Whose UNFINISHED, BETA VERSION game, the was NEVER intended to have the same mechanics at retail launch because the game is a WORK IN PROGRESS.. to highlight some keywords.

So we should STFU till release?

[NalkorRN]

The point to this thread is..... there's no point, really.

 

To get this straight, so i understand better:

 

You're angry because DE, who have every right to alter the game how they see fit, made changes in their BETA game. In other words, to their unfinished product, they changed some mechanics to make things work more how they wanted them to, before the big retail release in which everything will ultimately work exactly how DE wanted them to. To this fact, your upset that you can't continue to test their game for them in a way you enjoy, and you'd rather DE had little to no choice in this matter because you're upset, so you've stopped supporting their release of a finished product they can be proud of.

 

Did I miss anything? Whose game are we playing anyways? Whose UNFINISHED, BETA VERSION game, the was NEVER intended to have the same mechanics at retail launch because the game is a WORK IN PROGRESS.. to highlight some keywords.

We're also meant to test these changes, and it keeps getting closer and closer to release, and that makes it harder to do proper testing. Now we have to test new gear/foundry changes on top of changes to some Frames' notable powers. Yes the game changes a lot, but it's not a good thing for them to keep changing it. Why should we bother testing something if we think it's going to be scrapped for a different method in a week or two? Player retention is already very poor. DE_Steve/Scott (forgot which) said changes are done because not everyone has played for 500 hours, but it takes less than a tenth of that to see how this game offers nothing in terms of longevity.

[Kalenath]

You know what else Blizzard has that DE doesn't?

A patch-server dedicated to rooting out these problems in advance. A server where everyone got maxlvl gear and access to end-tier content. A server where we could actually beta test S#&$ instead of being milked for $$$ or needing to grind for a month to get to the testing.

 

The justification for having the RM store live at this stage is a flimsy smokescreen to make it seem like this is beta so they can pretend like we are "testing" this game while in reality we are just regular customers and DE is making a killing on an unfinished product.

 

And you think DE is Blizzard? Man...

 

Fact: World Of Warcraft is still heavily SUBSCRIBER based.

Fact: Warframe is NOT.

 

Do you need it in smaller words?

 

Your hate of the company for trying to stay in business (ie, not handing you everything you want on a silver platter apparently) is getting old. They do not have the resources of Blizzard. They do not have the funding of Blizzard.

 

Are they making money? I HOPE so. Unlike you apparently, I enjoy the game and want it to succeed. I like changes that make the game more challenging, unlike many. They are not perfect changes, but...hint:

 

They DO listen to constructive feedback. They HAVE listened to constructive feedback.

 

Rants, QQ, and people screaming 'I want my 'I WIN' button back! Give it back! ? Not so much. Can't really say I blame them.

Edited September 8, 2013 by Kalenath

[Mosychuk]

Why should we bother testing something if we think it's going to be scrapped for a different method in a week or two?

Welcome to the real world, where this has to be done not just once every one to two weeks, but literally multiple times a day to achieve favorable results. You wont be able to point out a single industry where this isn't commonplace.