(New Player Experience Is More Survivable When Rushing)

[Nagisawa]

And started a new account, this time with a Mag.  The tutorial level was OK, but...  After that, soloing these Grineer...  Ouch.

 

Is it normal now to die in Mercury's Terminus?  I mean, I had no Mods, 0 Ranks in anything, and the spawn rate killed me (Once.)  It was nuts, there was no cover I could use to regen my shields, every time I had a few seconds to relax and hide, something would pop up at an angle that I didn't have covered, meaning my shields were rarely over 60, and Mag starts at 150.

 

The next mission M Prime I just blew right through it, ignored most of the mobs, killed (or tried to) whatever popped in front of me and finished it as best I could.  Which meant the XP sucked, because I couldn't/didn't kill as much as I could  have.

 

There's seriously something off here.  I guess they did rebalance the game for solely group play.  I mean, if Solo means you have to rush, it also means the 'affinity' gained if minimal.

 

Pity, and this was going to be my Nyx/Ember/Mag account, too.  Oh well.

 

 

[eStecko]

What i got from all of my friends who tried this game and all of them, except for one, havent played it ever since, was... new player experience in this game sucks.

 

What i would say is, that WF is in a curve, where early and endgame of it is just baaad. The middle part of having some mods leveled up a little and exploring new areas, void, crafting and more new mods is great. But start and the point when you have everything is just boredom.

Edited September 9, 2013 by eStecko

[X3Evanescence]

What i got from all of my friends who tried this game and all of them, except for one, havent played it ever since, was... new player experience in this game sucks. What i would say is, that WF is in a curve, where early and endgame of it is just baaad. The middle part of having some mods leveled up a little and exploring new areas, void, crafting and more new mods is great. But start and the point when you have everything is just boredom.

The gameplay and the difficulty of the enemies to the newbies act as a vicious cycle to keep away new players who lack perseverance.

[Justin_Case001]

That's a bummer.  When I started, I played solo a lot.  I also have a friend who started at the exact same time as me, and we worked through the first few systems together a lot.  But we were both newbies, and didn't have some flux guy just killing everything for us.  It worked well for us, and the balance was quite nice.  Challenging, but good.  And the solo always worked well too.  Sometimes I'd find myself backtracking to hide and recharge, and then there would be an enemy drop behind me, so I'd keep running farther until I found myself at the first room of the map again.  But most of the time it was ok.  I didn't really start playing online until I was pretty high level.  By the time major changes to the game were made, I didn't really notice.  But if it's way harder now for new solo players, that's too bad, because solo can be really fun sometimes.

[eStecko]

The gameplay and the difficulty of the enemies to the newbies act as a vicious cycle to keep away new players who lack perseverance.

The thing is, you dont want to drive away your new players. Not to forget the useless "shiney" tutorial. This actualy would get greatly fixed, IF Grineer we're not starting enemies, since they have "that" 66% damage reduction and hitscan weapons.

Edited September 9, 2013 by eStecko

[X3Evanescence]

The thing is, you dont want to drive away your new players. This actualy would get greatly fixed, IF Grineer we're not starting enemies, since they have "that" 66% damage reduction and hitscan weapons.

In addition, you need about 4-5 hits of the Skana in order to kill one Lancer. Newbies also tend to stop in one place instead of being constantly on the move. Paired with the spawn rate of the enemies, you will be almost always under sustained fire, with minimal cover to fall back on. I have seen so many people struggling to even start out the game. Just look at Captain Vor.

[eStecko]

In addition, you need about 4-5 hits of the Skana in order to kill one Lancer. Newbies also tend to stop in one place instead of being constantly on the move. Paired with the spawn rate of the enemies, you will be almost always under sustained fire, with minimal cover to fall back on. I have seen so many people struggling to even start out the game. Just look at Captain Vor.

Well Captain Vor and his moves are designed well. No idea if his level scaling was fixed for new players or not, but either way, he just too soon for new players, which often strugle with things you said. Actualy old CVor was fine to learn new players to keep moving, huh.

[Zeally]

Your title very little to do with the context of your actual post, could you find it within yourself to edit the title to something fitting?

 

This seems more like a "Lets discuss new player difficulty balance" topic. Or something of that nature. And then probably move your original topic title into the body of your post.

 

Anyway, its been a long time since I was new to this game, and from what I can remember, its always had a little bit of a learning curve until you got settled into it.

 

What still is really lacking is any true sense of an introduction to Warframes combat, and some fine tuning is more than likely needed on DE's end.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Zeally

[eStecko]

Your title very little to do with the context of your actual post, could you find it within yourself to edit the title to something fitting?

 

This seems more like a "Lets discuss new player difficulty balance" topic. Or something of that nature. And then probably move your original topic title into the body of your post.

 

Anyway, its been a long time since I was new to this game, and from what I can remember, its always had a little bit of a learning curve until you got settled into it.

 

What still is really lacking is any true sense of an introduction to Warframes combat, and some fine tuning is more than likely needed on DE's end.

I've been into this part in my topic. But this is one of MMO's problems - new player experience. In MMO's new players feel overwhelmed by huge open world, all the UI, skills, trainers, mounts, trading, dueling, open world pvp, griefing, guilds, party, alone game mechanics, etc, etc... So once again a question. Is WF trying to be something it's not... MMO?

[Ced23Ric]

Amended the topic title.

[MrCranky_BR]

... soloing these Grineer...  Ouch.

 

...I guess they did rebalance the game for solely group play.  

 

 No.

 

The game was advertised as co-op.

Everywhere before you are even done installing the game, it says co-op.

The game was always balanced around co-op. Hopefully, it will always be.

The game is meant to be played co-op. That's why the default settings will direct you to co-op.

 

So, if by now you didn't get that this is a co-op game and Solo mode is a form of CHALLENGE mode, you are beyond reasoning.

 

You are not meant to be able to play this game solo with a fresh character. How can people not grasp this concept? It's called SOLO, not Single Player. Anyone even remotely familiar with videogames should be able to understand what this means without someone spelling it to them. Solo mode, inside a co-op game.

 

It's just...wow. It's like you have to tell people everything, all the time. Hand holding. They can't figure out basic ideas for themselves and if something is too challenging, it's not that they are not ready for the challenge, it's that the challenge is unfair. Ugh.

[X3Evanescence]

No.

 

The game was advertised as co-op.

Everywhere before you are even done installing the game, it says co-op.

The game was always balanced around co-op. Hopefully, it will always be.

The game is meant to be played co-op. That's why the default settings will direct you to co-op.

 

So, if by now you didn't get that this is a co-op game and Solo mode is a form of CHALLENGE mode, you are beyond reasoning.

 

You are not meant to be able to play this game solo with a fresh character. How can people not grasp this concept? It's called SOLO, not Single Player. Anyone even remotely familiar with videogames should be able to understand what this means without someone spelling it to them. Solo mode, inside a co-op game.

 

It's just...wow. It's like you have to tell people everything, all the time. Hand holding. They can't figure out basic ideas for themselves and if something is too challenging, it's not that they are not ready for the challenge, it's that the challenge is unfair. Ugh.

Current matchmaking issues which end up in matchmaking with experienced players rushing for world records, leaving newbies behind to suffer without even bothering to revive them.

Terrible hosting issues by some people, without the option to change host to rectify connection problems.

Coop... And then everyone is doing Kappa or some other mission, and once Mercury is cleared, the other planets are quite scarce in squads actively clearing missions.

Coop. This is understood. However, the current elements in this game, Strict Nat, 1 button nuking skills, poor synergy between frames, the inability to rectify bad hosting issues, the list goes on.

Just play PUGs. When playing with them, do you really feel that you are part of a team? Don't talk about clans, I am talking PUGs here. If its a coop game, why must you join a clan just to have the best teamplay experience? Warframe is just... Lacking in so many issues to help appeal to new players. At most they come in, try out 1-2 missions, and leave due to these problems.

[Nagisawa]

 No.

 

The game was advertised as co-op.

Everywhere before you are even done installing the game, it says co-op.

The game was always balanced around co-op. Hopefully, it will always be.

The game is meant to be played co-op. That's why the default settings will direct you to co-op.

 

So, if by now you didn't get that this is a co-op game and Solo mode is a form of CHALLENGE mode, you are beyond reasoning.

 

You are not meant to be able to play this game solo with a fresh character. How can people not grasp this concept? It's called SOLO, not Single Player. Anyone even remotely familiar with videogames should be able to understand what this means without someone spelling it to them. Solo mode, inside a co-op game.

 

It's just...wow. It's like you have to tell people everything, all the time. Hand holding. They can't figure out basic ideas for themselves and if something is too challenging, it's not that they are not ready for the challenge, it's that the challenge is unfair. Ugh.

What do you think Solo is?  Solo is playing the game alone, and for various reasons, privacy, lack of friends wanting to play, terrible PuG experiences, connection issues, whatever, the game gives you an option.  Unfortunately, that option sucks.

 

In fact, it's an outright lie.  For example, when I did Terminus, I killed a total of 110 enemies.  But on Caloris, which is the Exterminate mission, which I am grinding to level up my gear a bit before Vor, it only gives a maximum of 48.  A higher level place gives you less targets, and is much easier than Terminus if use a Mag.  Terminus is the starting planet.  It shouldn't kill newbies as brutally as it did.

 

This is not about perseverance, this is about teaching the game to new people, easing them in.  Then you ramp up the challenge.

 

But balance needs to be addressed, and it needs to be on the list of priorities.  And I mean all modes, and all sizes of groups, from 1 to 4.  Because going duo is ever so slightly better, but still brutal for newbies.  The game has one default setting and that's 4 man, and as proven numerous times, not everyone has the ability or inclination to go 4 manning.  And if DE wants more people to pay them for this game (via plat, or whatever) then they need to step up and fix this.  Because New Player Experience is key to getting more blood to play.

 

And frankly, this is me being selfish, because the more new blood, more money Digital Extremes gets, the longer this game lasts, and the longer it lasts the more I get to play.  And I want to play

[MrCranky_BR]

Well, I have to agree on some of the points you guys made. Okay, I'm partially convinced.

 

Yes, I'm well aware of the technical issues. But I think then it's another ball game: fix the issues, not balance the game around them. But I can see how those things can drive players away now, so point taken.

 

And I do play PUGs almost exclusively. I own a clan with two friends, but they have not played for a month now...My PUG experience is usually fun and satisfactory, but I'm used to it.

 

I will still disagree on the Solo thing, when done voluntarily and not out of tech issues. In my mind there's a clear difference between starting a single player game, and going into a co-op game and setting a solo mode. Alas, that's me. Your perception is as valid as mine, I suppose.

 

Maybe the first game experience changed from when I started. I did not experience any difficulty in jumping into pugs on my first run, and felt the challenge was just right. So I'll take your word for it if things are different now.

 

Good arguments. See you in game, folks.

[Xylia]

@MrCranky_BR:

 

Back during Update 8, if you set the "SOLO" mode on, fewer enemies spawned in-mission, because you were, uh, Solo.

 

THIS FREAKING WORKED.

 

Solo people were happy, Group People were happy (because more enemies spawned with more players in the mission).

 

Everybody was happy.

 

Except for a few hardcore elitist whiners who kept whining the game was too easy with their max-modded weapons. Then Update 9 dropped, they upped the levels of many planets, and now Solo Mode doesn't even affect Mob Spawns; Setting it to SOLO gives you about the number of mobs appropriate for 2-3 players.

 

We need "SOLO" Mode to actually work like it did in U8 for starters.

[Xylia]

Also, @OP:

 

Scott himself said that he tried the New Player Experience and found that it "needed attention".

 

So hopefully in u10 they finally do something about it.

[Nagisawa]

I'm going to keep this as a running tally of my Experiences as a 'Newbie Solo' Mag in Update 9.

 

So I just did Tolstoj.  Fought the New Captain Vor.  Was a rough fight, but doable, no actual complaints there.  Mag was Level 10 (now 11), my Mk-1 is 5, my Lato was also 5, and my neglected Skana is actually 3.

 

The mods I have been able to get so far are (outside of the four powers you've been given as your 'Frame of choice, of course):

 

Total of 4 Vitalities.  (This is from grinding Caloris a bit.)

 

2 Fast Hands.

 

A Heated Charge (that I can't equip because it's minimum 6) I got this off a Caloris run, so lucky!

 

Two Pressure Points (again, unable to use as it's Rank 4)

 

3 Sentinel class Regens that I've sold two of.

 

And a total of 10 Fusions.  8 Common and 2 Rare.  I used two on Pull, and a couple more on a Vitality, but unable to equip.

 

However what ground my gears was the amount of Sniper and Shotgun Ammo that dropped after I killed Vor.  Who by the way took most of all my ammo.  No, I did not buy ammo boxes because I didn't have enough to spare after buying a Dual Ether plan, which may have been a mistake on my part, but hey, I'm supposed to be playing a nub anyway, right?

 

In fact, I daresay 80% of what the Grinnies dropped after that were nothing but Shotty and Snipe ammo boxes.  I was under the impression that Sniper ammo was the rarest.  In the last few months, I've noticed that it's been Rifle ammo.

 

Just to prove it to you can't get any of those as a Baby Player.  The Strun costs 75,000 credits and is the easiest to pick up, but you have to grind Caloris (the easiest of them) 75 times to get enough, seventy five.  This is not fun, this is not perseverance, this is the epitome of tedium.

 

The Vulkar plans, on the other hand, are a mere 20k, and 20k to make for a total of 40k spent. but making it requires 12 hours of waiting.  And Plastids, which first drops off Saturn, Circuits which drop off Venus (the second planet AFTER Mercury), and Salvage which first drop off Mars.

 

There is something seriously wrong with that ammo drop table.

 

Xylia, it doesn't need attention, it needs a complete overhaul.

[Nagisawa]

Double post, but I gotta say, I'm beginning to hate these Rescue missions.  They aren't hard, and I actually beat them, but on both Venusian ones, I got a secondary objective.  The first was Data module collection, which reduced me to a pistol.  Which I STILL got the Hostage out AND I got over 170 kills.

 

This second one, just before Earth I died once in the prison because I got mobbed by twelve units, two of which were electroprods.  The rest were Moas.  And I was out of Energy because it took everything I had, three times, to get there.  And I had to do another rescue.

 

And I've also found that the Hostages get still get stuck on Corpus geometry.  This was a problem back on U7 (When I joined the game.)  Is it really that big an issue?  Legitimate question, as I don't know the logistics behind pathing.  Admittedly, it's nice that they use the Tenno motion system as opposed to the Grineer one that everyone else uses (Have you seen when they run away firing?  They nearly twist 180.  That's gotta hurt.)

 

Mod wise. I've getting Reaches and Ammo Drums, and Fusions.  No Hornet Strikes or Serrations.  I'm going avoid Jackal for now.

[Nagisawa]

Aaaand, I'm stymied.  I'm stuck at a Mobile Defense with a Mag, and I cannot rush through it.  Good old Earth.  Well, I guess it's back to Caloris for a while,