prime stats

[zoobmer]

2 hours ago, (PS4)LordBartimus said:

Okay heres the thing, they AREN'T mandatory. Yes they have slightly better base stats. Valkyr is a good example. She has a high armor value and her prime got more, but because of how armor works with diminishing returns she isn't that much of an upgrade. Her fashion may also be better as with other primes, but with tennogen most people use those skins either way, which can be used on all versions of a frame. Saying they aren't mandatory isn't trash and it isn't a lie, because it's not. I put off using frost prime for years because he just wasn't that much better than his non-prime variant. 

 

Just now, Xzorn said:

Primes weren't even supposed to have different stats but they started to use Primes as a way of tuning frames after reworks or nerfs.

Like I'd bet plat Titania Prime will have a larger energy pool and I'd be very surprised if Wukong doesn't get more Speed.

Not even sure what they'll do for Mesa. Maybe a little Shields? She doesn't need anything really.

here's the thing though: if the primes aren't actual upgrades, why would they even need to exist at all?

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

On 2018-12-08 at 6:38 AM, ZBanx said:

primes often have higher armor, health, shields, and energy max. however, the most useful stats would be ones that increase ability effectiveness. Rhino Prime and Frost Prime have abilities which benefit from their increased armor, but they are the exception, rather than the rule.

Mesa Prime, as well as well as primed versions of Chroma, Limbo, Zephyr, and many more, would benefit more from a higher base duration compared to their basic versions. I would rather have a higher power duration by using the primed version of these frames, as opposed to the stats which are currently effected.

I really hate how sullenly people are saying “that isn’t how that works.”

DE says that prime frames aren’t suppose to make the default frame obsolete.

 

Thats exactly what prime weapons do. Some prime weapons have DOUBLE the stats of the non prime version, or like the Pyrana had some thought put into them.

Why would anyone pay $80 for a frame that isn’t undeniably better than the base frame?

 

I was going to buy Mesa prime, for however much DE asked, but the hype is completely over for me.

 

I’m not paying $80 for a skin that takes my forma away.

[zoobmer]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

I really hate how sullenly people are saying “that isn’t how that works.”

DE says that prime frames aren’t suppose to make the default frame obsolete.

 

Thats exactly what prime weapons do. Some prime weapons have DOUBLE the stats of the non prime version, or like the Pyrana had some thought put into them.

Why would anyone pay $80 for a frame that isn’t undeniably better than the base frame?

 

I was going to buy Mesa prime, for however much DE asked, but the hype is completely over for me.

 

I’m not paying $80 for a skin that takes my forma away.

I mean, you're also getting $130 worth of plat for only $80. that's paying like, 2/3 of the price. I've heard people say that the primes are easy enough to get via trading that you're really paying for discounted plat that happens to come with a primed frame and two primed weapons; not for primed items that happen to come with free plat.

[Xzorn]

7 minutes ago, ZBanx said:

 

here's the thing though: if the primes aren't actual upgrades, why would they even need to exist at all?

 

They were intended as cosmetic only. The only reason to exist was to have a skin option.

Many things have happened since then like Tennogen and Deluxe skins but my point was they're more stat tuning or countermeasures to nerfs than upgrades.

Take Valkyr for example. They tried to destroy Hysteria and gave her a more drastic addition of armor and energy. Same with Chroma, they rendered him with 1/4 his original HP and so gave him both armor and energy for QT. Umbra has a lot more HP than base Excal because his Blind is now line-of-sight restricted and he takes more damage on avg. Meanwhile frames that remained relatively strong or popular got very small improvements like Nekros and Nova which make little to no difference.

The stat changes are more or less just tweaks to help fix a frame from faulty design of being beaten with a the nerf bat.

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

They were intended as cosmetic only. The only reason to exist was to have a skin option.

Many things have happened since then like Tennogen and Deluxe skins but my point was they're more stat tuning or countermeasures to nerfs than upgrades.

Take Valkyr for example. They tried to destroy Hysteria and gave her a more drastic addition of armor and energy. Same with Chroma, they rendered him with 1/4 his original HP and so gave him both armor and energy for QT. Umbra has a lot more HP than base Excal because his Blind is now line-of-sight restricted and he takes more damage on avg. Meanwhile frames that remained relatively strong or popular got very small improvements like Nekros and Nova which make little to no difference.

The stat changes are more or less just tweaks to help fix a frame from faulty design of being beaten with a the nerf bat.

So if you don’t want the nerfed version of the frame, you spend $80?

 

That seems like a disgusting system.

[zoobmer]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

So if you don’t want the nerfed version of the frame, you spend $80?

 

That seems like a disgusting system.

good thing it's Fake News! the nerfs happen because frames are over powered compared to where DE wants the roster. primes are, indeed, supposed to be upgrades. 

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 5 heures, Xzorn a dit :

Primes weren't even supposed to have different stats but they started to use Primes as a way of tuning frames after reworks or nerfs.

Like I'd bet plat Titania Prime will have a larger energy pool and I'd be very surprised if Wukong doesn't get more Speed.

Not even sure what they'll do for Mesa. Maybe a little Shields? She doesn't need anything really.

From the Devstream 120 preview the stat tab had:

30 more max shields (85 from 75 base)

30 more max health (135 from 125 base) 

20 more armour (85 from 65)

37.5 more max energy (125 from 100 base). 

 

If those are the final stats the buffs are pretty nutsy 😄

[Xzorn]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

So if you don’t want the nerfed version of the frame, you spend $80?

That seems like a disgusting system.

 

I doubt it's part of a business model. Wouldn't be a very good one since Prime frames are easier to get than most new releases.

DE often nerfs things and then goes half back on it because they nerf too hard. Prime stats are just one method of doing that.

They nerfed Chroma from around 110k eHP to 40k eHP then gave his Prime 215 more Energy with P. Flow + QT + 125 more base armor and Prime is back around 80k eHP again. This was in the span of 8 months? They gave Chroma Prime the exact stats he needed to counter the eHP nerf he suffered. Unless there's someone out there who thinks Chroma needed 850 Energy?  ...I kinda doubt it. Original Chroma had more eHP than Chroma Prime and the "fix" to Chroma was for his damage output, not his eHP.

Players can believe what they want but it looks obvious to me. I don't think money is involved. Just the same nerfs and back tracking they've always done. It's also not the case for every frame but the ones who don't get counter buffs end up with very minimal improvements. Like Nova got Energy and Shields when she doesn't need much Energy and Shield HP doesn't work with her 1st ability. So mostly pointless stats. Nyx got 75 Shields, 35 armor and 0.02 Speed. Also pointless stats.

 

54 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:

From the Devstream 120 preview the stat tab had:

30 more max shields (85 from 75 base)

30 more max health (135 from 125 base) 

20 more armour (85 from 65)

37.5 more max energy (125 from 100 base).

If those are the final stats the buffs are pretty nutsy 😄

 

Lol, Merry Christmas?

[Autongnosis]

il y a 31 minutes, Xzorn a dit :

Lol, Merry Christmas?

Yeah hahahaha stats alone are about 20k more eHP without QT and before Adaptation, like Mesa needed that at all 😄

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

22 hours ago, ZBanx said:

 

here's the thing though: if the primes aren't actual upgrades, why would they even need to exist at all?

Because there needs to be some form of monetization for a free game, and also because lore reason. 

[(PSN)Mono-Pop]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LordBartimus said:

Because there needs to be some form of monetization for a free game, and also because lore reason. 

Some form of monetisation besides;

Weapon slots.

Warframe slots.

Sentinel slots.

Colour palettes.

Catalysts.

Reactors.

Greater lenses.

Rush for platinum costs.

Catch of the day x 3-4.

Syandanas.

Warframe skins.

Warframe helmets.

Weapon skins.

Attachments.

Animations.

Affinity, resource and credit boosters.

Operator hair, clothing and accessories.

The platinum price of Endo.

UI skins.

Ship decorations.

 

DE selling a single warframe skin from their “Prime” range of skins for as much as an entire game costs is honestly pretty disgusting.

People are allowed to spend their money however they want, obviously. But weapon slots and prime frames make me a n g e r y

Edited December 19, 2018 by (PS4)Mono-Pop

[zoobmer]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LordBartimus said:

Because there needs to be some form of monetization for a free game

except DE knows better than to monetize things without giving people their money's worth. that's the kind of thing that makes DE, Arena Net, and Epic Games benevolent: they do not exploit.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

DE selling a single warframe skin from their “Prime” range of skins for as much as an entire game costs is honestly pretty disgusting.

People are allowed to spend their money however they want, obviously. But weapon slots and prime frames make me a n g e r y

again, prime access is $130 worth of plat for $50, so it's really more of a discount on plat which happens to come with items, rather then items which happen to come with plat. granted, the 20 plat to a dollar conversion is arbitrary in and of itself, since it's a digital good. they settle on their prices based on what makes the best experience for so called "dolphins," and keeps their game reasonably profitable.

[(PSN)LordBartimus]

On 2018-12-18 at 5:25 PM, ZBanx said:

except DE knows better than to monetize things without giving people their money's worth. that's the kind of thing that makes DE, Arena Net, and Epic Games benevolent: they do not exploit.

OH I'm not disagreeing with you. When you buy prime access, you get exactly what you paid for plus a ton of discount plat.