Why PVP would benefit DE (not a rework conclave post)

[Kontrollo]

2 hours ago, EmberStar said:

Actually, given the Eastern (Chinese/Japanese) flavor of a lot of the lore, I'd say that adding Go probably has a bit stronger claim.  Plus, we've actually seen in-story lore relating to a (very simplified) variation of Go.  Maybe there's a similar amount of Lore with Teshin, I couldn't say.  I have less than zero interest in PVP and have only seen Teshin in the War Within story missions.

The downside to adding a full game of Go is that you apparently need some serious AI scripting for a properly challenging NPC opponent.  The version we saw in The Sacrifice was a much, much smaller board and usually only allowed you to play out very limited moves.  I'd need to check, but I think a couple of the "supposed to lose" beats actually only gave you a choice of two or three equally awful counter-moves.

Of course they could do what they did with Frame Fighter and skip any AI to have it strictly between two human opponents.  I'm not sure how they could avoid the same result as Frame Fighter though.  Where people collect the unlockables, mess with the mode for a couple of days, and then immediately forget it ever existed.

The previous argument in the post you quoted is slightly flawed, although I agree with most individual points: There are quite a few adjustments to make the game work in a PvP environment. Required skills are different, abilities are different and modding is different. Although damage numbers and other stats are adjusted, most weapons at least keep their feeling.

However, Warframe is still a 3rd person shooter at its core (obviously with more elements than just that). People who forget that should maybe create a new account just to play it for a few hours again. So it's definitely true that Conclave specifically is not an endgame for PvE as such, but it is an endgame mode for Warframe itself. However, only for people who want to enjoy that kind of gameplay, obviously.

 

I've played Frame Fighter a bit initially and it quickly became clear that it'd need a bit more work to be taken more seriously. A Go minigame/mode sounds like a good and very fitting idea, though.

[Aramil999]

Conclave is unique due to how fast it is and how much freedom you have over your character. You move as you want almost as fast as you want in any direction you want and shot where ever you want. Yes it is probably one of the hardest third person shooters out there and way harder than any fps but that challange makes it a experience where when you hit and kill you feel really proud of yourself like you have actually achived something very hard.

I think that Stalker Mode that was annouced to be coming this year can narrow the gap between comfortable PvE and PvP community and fix some big problems of Conclave such as new players loadouts, match browser, gun balance, adding new weapons and warframes, adding Conclave node to starchart etc.

edit: I belive that some more PvP in Warframe can only bring benefits and no negatives to such amazing game like Warframe. No harm can be done 🙂

Besides reward tables for game modes is everything, players will grind gamemode even if they HATE it if it gives best in game items. So easiest fix to promote Conclave is to make it possible to buy Rivens, Large amounts of Kuva, rare eidolon Arcanes etc. for Conclave Standing (yes stupid idea but that would work wothout doubt players would flood Conclave matches to get this "best" items in game). Good rewards make for popularity. If you have Harrow do you play Defection missions for fun? Nope noone plays it for fun, players do missions to get rewards, and have some fun on top of that. But of gamemode gives 0 rewards... like Conclave... then only few dedicated ones are left.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Aramil999
well, point of disscussion

[(NSW)jja209]

Basically people don’t play concave because it’s hard and it’s not casual.

[Aramil999]

23 hours ago, (NSW)jja209 said:

Basically people don’t play concave because it’s hard and it’s not casual.

Yes, besides hardness vs rewards is terrible. Conclave is literaly hardest mode in Warframe and probably hardest PvP out there, yet you get terribly low amount of resources, credits and standing for which you can't buy ANYTHING that is worth invested time and doesn't make you stronger in main game in any way.

So basicly it has worst rate of investment to rewards in whole game.

[(NSW)jja209]

54 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Yes, besides hardness vs rewards is terrible. Conclave is literaly hardest mode in Warframe and probably hardest PvP out there, yet you get terribly low amount of resources, credits and standing for which you can't buy ANYTHING that is worth invested time and doesn't make you stronger in main game in any way.

So basicly it has worst rate of investment to rewards in whole game.

I guess people don’t play for fun these days.

[Aramil999]

On 2019-02-11 at 1:41 AM, (NSW)jja209 said:

I guess people don’t play for fun these days.

Who plays Warframe missions that give no rewards? Like Defection when you got Harrow already?

[(NSW)jja209]

52 minutes ago, Aramil999 said:

Who plays Warframe missions that give no rewards? Like Defection when you got Harrow already?

I do. I guess.

[MystMan]

Ya, I also play some unpopular modes for fun after getting their exclusive rewards.  I still play the hell out of Archwing missions because I enjoy it.  I also use K-drive a lot in Cetus/Orb Vallis instead of archwing. Back when we had trials, I played those daily. I didn't care for the arcanes; simply coordinating with friends was all the fun I needed, that camaraderie was priceless.

Look at games like Left4Dead. Zero reward system, yet people play the hell out of it. I easily got a thousand hours out of it with all those custom maps. Old school arena pvp games had no reward systems either, no hats, not unlockable skins, nothing. We just played them because they were fun. Conclave players who have bought all its rewards and still continue to play it to this day, they enjoy it for what it is.

Not everybody needs to be "Skinner Boxed" into playing games.

If a game isn't fun and has rewards, people will play it once to get the rewards and then they're done or they won't even play/finish it at all.

When somebody requires rewards as the primary motivation to play something...... then they don't really find the game to be as fun as they claim. They get bored of it the moment they get everything and start asking for more. And no game developer can pump out new content/rewards at such a high pace. So it will be either:
(A) "content drought"  where the players are expected to be patient and make their own fun or play something else in the meantime waiting for new content or
(B) make the grinding requirements unreasonably high so by the time new content is released you're still grinding for the old content thus keeping you busy forever.

I'll take (A) anytime.

[Aramil999]

On 2019-02-13 at 2:50 PM, MystMan said:

Not everybody needs to be "Skinner Boxed" into playing games.

I play hell out of Conclave but 99% of Warframe players FARM missions that give best rewards or rewards that they simply doesn't have.

Your comment shows how much you know about this Community. Dedicated yes, to "specific missions" not so much. Rewards and farming experience.

[S.Dust]

Op here im glad the post has gotten back to the original topic because a bunch of pages of this just had me lost and I didnt know what was doing on. Also wow this post lasted longer than I thought it would glad to see there are definitely strong opinions on the topic.

[(XBOX)Dark SalvationX]

At this point i think anthem has better odds of good pvp. I have just about given up hope for warframe. People just dont understand. Im just getting bored of conclave and got bored of kill hundreds of a.i long ago. I have 75000 kills in conclave. Yawn.

 

[Aramil999]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Dark SalvationX said:

At this point i think anthem has better odds of good pvp. I have just about given up hope for warframe. People just dont understand. Im just getting bored of conclave and got bored of kill hundreds of a.i long ago. I have 75000 kills in conclave. Yawn.

 

Maybe try out PC Conclave? It is much more gun focused.

I agree through that Warframe PvP is very abandoned and gamemode with lots of problems like Conclave without developers support and some kind of change/rebalance/update once in a while will get boring no matter how good it is.

Stalker Invasions MAY fix this problem, at least for me 😉