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Update 10 Made The Game Un-Fun


Zephro
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I rarely post about the game's issues, but I feel that Update 10 has taken it too far for me to ignore.

 

The main case in point being the Stamina rework. This alone has massively soured my game experience. I play this game to be like a ninja, not a turtle or an asthmatic wreck that runs out of breath after running for 2 meters. Coincidentally, melee (which was already mediocre prior to this) is rendered completely worthless since you can barely kill 2 enemies before you run out of Stamina. If you want people to use the Stamina mods, make them worth using, not nerf Stamina into the ground.

For all those who hate rushers: Play games with people you know, there is ZERO NEED to kill a gamestyle simply because you cannot put up with it.

 

2nd point is as you all know, the massive grindwall the new frame is behind. Double grind for materials for 2 keys for a CHANCE to get a drop. I know DE needs to eat, but this is simply ridiculous. 

 

 

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COMPLETELY agree about the new stamina system. I could run further with 4 kids on my back!

 

Seeing every player around me walking at all times really takes you out of the feeling of being a ninja. Every time I ask anyone's opinions of it, they feel the same way.

 

Also, the grinding is a huge issue here. I figured the derilect set would be a new planet or something, but this is completely absurd. 

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From pre-whining to hasn't played the new update for a week whining..... it never ends.

 

Why would you need to play the new update for a week to know within minutes that the new stamina system is clearly detrimental to the ninja style of gameplay? Explain your brilliant piece of logic to me.

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From pre-whining to hasn't played the new update for a week whining..... it never ends.

Guess you're one of those people who prefer to spend 9 hours farming those new "Keys" than waiting another 9 hours building them than another 6 to actually get to the boss? This is if you don't rush. You honestly think that's fun at all? It doesn't help that doing a loot run and having to walk through the map because the stamina rework barred running for more than 3 seconds at this point. It's a pain in the &#! and feed back is needed or all fluidity that this game used to have will forever be GONE. It's not even fun to attempt meleeing anymore because it's sacrificing any sprinting I could do pretty much. And keep in mind I "Main" a Melee Only Loki. THis effected me A LOT, along with many others, non rushers and rushers a like. So get off your high horse and notice that this isn't whining but honest positive feed back among the MAJORITY of the community.

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I rarely post about the game's issues, but I feel that Update 10 has taken it too far for me to ignore.

 

The main case in point being the Stamina rework. This alone has massively soured my game experience. I play this game to be like a ninja, not a turtle or an asthmatic wreck that runs out of breath after running for 2 meters. Coincidentally, melee (which was already mediocre prior to this) is rendered completely worthless since you can barely kill 2 enemies before you run out of Stamina. If you want people to use the Stamina mods, make them worth using, not nerf Stamina into the ground.

For all those who hate rushers: Play games with people you know, there is ZERO NEED to kill a gamestyle simply because you cannot put up with it.

 

2nd point is as you all know, the massive grindwall the new frame is behind. Double grind for materials for 2 keys for a CHANCE to get a drop. I know DE needs to eat, but this is simply ridiculous. 

i completely agree. especially with the grind for the new frame.

we need to grind coords for the derelict + a S#&$ ton of resources. 9k nanospores is fine can get 2k of those with eyes closed but the circuits salvage and ferrite costs are high for the amount we get dropped.

Then to craft the golem key we need golem coords from the derelict + plus a S#&$ ton of mats again. 3k circuits is not ok for something we ned to run about 50 times if farming the other frames is anything to go by.

company is just getting greedy now by getting as close to forcing platinum purchases as possible and still call this game free. sad sad day for gamers everywhere.

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I personally like the stamina system the way it is. It feels like a stamina system should. There's just a lot of butthurt involved because now people that are used to finishing every mission they play in 3-4 minutes is now finishing them every 9-10 minutes. Which isn't even a huge deal.

 

I can see how this would hurt Loki though. Maybe that's something that needs to be addressed within Loki's abilities. 

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I personally like the stamina system the way it is. It feels like a stamina system should. There's just a lot of butthurt involved because now people that are used to finishing every mission they play in 3-4 minutes is now finishing them every 9-10 minutes. Which isn't even a huge deal.

 

I can see how this would hurt Loki though. Maybe that's something that needs to be addressed within Loki's abilities. 

 

 

I rather take long to finish a mission because the mission itself had difficulty

 

Not because they game nerfed RUNNING.

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I personally like the stamina system the way it is. It feels like a stamina system should. There's just a lot of butthurt involved because now people that are used to finishing every mission they play in 3-4 minutes is now finishing them every 9-10 minutes. Which isn't even a huge deal.

 

I can see how this would hurt Loki though. Maybe that's something that needs to be addressed within Loki's abilities. 

 

Let's make the game turn based and can finish in no less than 10 minutes, okay? Would that be fun?

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Agreed.  With each new update, I'm losing the will to play.

 

The new grinding system sounds horrible.  Enough so that I've given up on getting the new frame already (And no, I'm not spending ~$15 in plat on a single frame.  I buy potatoes/formas/cosmetics only).

 

But the stamina nerf is just the worst.  It's like DE is actively trying to make the game as dull as possible by removing the things that make it fun.

 

Who wants to grind for hours in a game that isn't even fun?

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Y'know what, this S#&$ really shouldn't have to be typed... but the limits of Human Stupidity just keep getting wider...

 

You do all know that this is a Co-Op game, right? You do all know that Co-Op is short for "COOPERATIVE", right? You do all know what "COOPERATIVE" means, right?

 

So why, if I'm hosting, must I be forced to rush if I'm trying to get levels. Y'know... so I can Co-Op. Why must I be forced to rush, only to arrive at a fight just in time to watch the last guy die, and still not get anything for it? Where's my sense of accomplishment? Hmm? That's why I love hosting Mobile Defense. Because I can grab the [Whatever] and make you move at MY pace. Whether you like it or not.

 

Everyone makes it seem like they're literally on the edge of the @(*()$ apocalypse, so they have to sprint through goddamn everything and hamper my enjoyment, and my experience.

 

Y'know what else is funny? I already know your argument; "Well just play solo".

 

To that I must, yet again, ask; Why? Why should I force myself out of experiencing the best content of being able to actually Co-Op with another player? Why not share the rewards, and maybe have some company too?

 

So, finding a clan eh'? Well that's all well and good, if you can actually find one. I tried for a whole damn month to get a clan. I ended up forming my own. And even then, there's still people in clans who have zero interest in Co-Oping, no... instead, they want to play Gran Turismo: Cyborg Space-Ninja Edition. Seriously, if that's all you're going to do; go Masturbate. It releases the same kind of chemicals in your brain and then some, plus, you might burn a few calories that way.

 

So I have to ask now; to all the rushers who simply sprint past everything; Why must you be so selfish and conceited to force others into your playstyle, when all they want to do is get their levels, experience the full content, and actually feel like they've accomplished something?

 

I liken this game so much to Dark Souls now. On one hand, you have the players who seriously want nothing more to enjoy every piece of the content, and on the other, you have players who think it's their god-given right to force everyone to play the way they do, and if they don't then they're worse than human. It's like some of you honestly can't conceive of playing any game any other way than rushing through everything, or by making the lives of other players more frustrating.

 

I, for one, like that they included a system that is at least marginally intended to keep players moving at the same pace, but like every other game I've played, there's always got to be that one group of people who just seem to think that they're way of doing it is the only right way.

 

Now, all that said: if I join a game in progress, and I see that everyone's trying to rush through, then yeah, I join them, as best I can. I follow their lead, I do as they do; they're the host after all. But when I'm hosting, and I have to tell people seven times that I'm looking for Loot/Affinity/Credits/Whatever, and they just laugh it off and rush anyway, I feel like I'm cut out of my own game.

 

Finally; I like the Rhino 'Frame. I don't like wasting slots on Sprint mods that I can use to increase my survivability and damage capability. I don't care WHAT you're running. If I join a game, I intend to get something out of it. So F*** you, F*** your rushing, and F*** your attitude. I'm going to play the game, my way, whether you like it or not. That's what everyone else seems to do. I should fit right in.

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I agree that the Stamina system was a bit of a step in the wrong direction, but only because they didn't add enough of a boon to making use of the stamina you have. If you can't melee as long, but your attacks do more DAMAGE, or if you can't sprint as long, but you're a bit FASTER, or if you can't block as long but your block is more EFFECTIVE, then I can totally get behind a more limiting stamina gauge.

That said, while I agree that the stamina changes were a mistake, I'm getting kind of sick about how many people on these forums blow every little thing out of proportion. Something that is less than favorable in a video game is far from signifying the end of times. Chill out.

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Y'know what, this S#&$ really shouldn't have to be typed... but the limits of Human Stupidity just keep getting wider...

 

You do all know that this is a Co-Op game, right? You do all know that Co-Op is short for "COOPERATIVE", right? You do all know what "COOPERATIVE" means, right?

 

So why, if I'm hosting, must I be forced to rush if I'm trying to get levels. Y'know... so I can Co-Op. Why must I be forced to rush, only to arrive at a fight just in time to watch the last guy die, and still not get anything for it? Where's my sense of accomplishment? Hmm? That's why I love hosting Mobile Defense. Because I can grab the [Whatever] and make you move at MY pace. Whether you like it or not.

 

Everyone makes it seem like they're literally on the edge of the @(*()$ apocalypse, so they have to sprint through goddamn everything and hamper my enjoyment, and my experience.

 

Y'know what else is funny? I already know your argument; "Well just play solo".

 

To that I must, yet again, ask; Why? Why should I force myself out of experiencing the best content of being able to actually Co-Op with another player? Why not share the rewards, and maybe have some company too?

 

So, finding a clan eh'? Well that's all well and good, if you can actually find one. I tried for a whole damn month to get a clan. I ended up forming my own. And even then, there's still people in clans who have zero interest in Co-Oping, no... instead, they want to play Gran Turismo: Cyborg Space-Ninja Edition. Seriously, if that's all you're going to do; go Masturbate. It releases the same kind of chemicals in your brain and then some, plus, you might burn a few calories that way.

 

So I have to ask now; to all the rushers who simply sprint past everything; Why must you be so selfish and conceited to force others into your playstyle, when all they want to do is get their levels, experience the full content, and actually feel like they've accomplished something?

 

I liken this game so much to Dark Souls now. On one hand, you have the players who seriously want nothing more to enjoy every piece of the content, and on the other, you have players who think it's their god-given right to force everyone to play the way they do, and if they don't then they're worse than human. It's like some of you honestly can't conceive of playing any game any other way than rushing through everything, or by making the lives of other players more frustrating.

 

I, for one, like that they included a system that is at least marginally intended to keep players moving at the same pace, but like every other game I've played, there's always got to be that one group of people who just seem to think that they're way of doing it is the only right way.

 

Now, all that said: if I join a game in progress, and I see that everyone's trying to rush through, then yeah, I join them, as best I can. I follow their lead, I do as they do; they're the host after all. But when I'm hosting, and I have to tell people seven times that I'm looking for Loot/Affinity/Credits/Whatever, and they just laugh it off and rush anyway, I feel like I'm cut out of my own game.

 

Finally; I like the Rhino 'Frame. I don't like wasting slots on Sprint mods that I can use to increase my survivability and damage capability. I don't care WHAT you're running. If I join a game, I intend to get something out of it. So F*** you, F*** your rushing, and F*** your attitude. I'm going to play the game, my way, whether you like it or not. That's what everyone else seems to do. I should fit right in.

+1 Why play the game at all if you're not actually interested in -playing- it in the first place. Life's too short to spend it racing to the finish line. I like to enjoy my things.

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Y'know what, this S#&$ really shouldn't have to be typed... but the limits of Human Stupidity just keep getting wider...

 

You do all know that this is a Co-Op game, right? You do all know that Co-Op is short for "COOPERATIVE", right? You do all know what "COOPERATIVE" means, right?

 

So why, if I'm hosting, must I be forced to rush if I'm trying to get levels. Y'know... so I can Co-Op. Why must I be forced to rush, only to arrive at a fight just in time to watch the last guy die, and still not get anything for it? Where's my sense of accomplishment? Hmm? That's why I love hosting Mobile Defense. Because I can grab the [Whatever] and make you move at MY pace. Whether you like it or not.

Co-op is about COOPERATION.  That means working together with your teammates to accomplish a goal.

 

If you choose to go slow, you're not helping your teammates, you're being dead weight.  If you choose to carry the data unit and force everyone to move at your pace, you're a jerk, and you're ruining the game for everyone else.  It you want to play your way, make private games with friends/clanmates who have the same playstyle.

 

Cooperation means doing what's best for the team, not playing the way you want to.  Go fast, or go solo.

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I hate to judge things too quickly, I feel that some of this stuff is trial and error with a beta version of the game, but after saying that I have to say, DE kind of made this no fun at all. U10 was looking pretty sweet until it launched and now I feel they may have been way too heavy handed once again in their approach to things. They want you to be a ninja and then take the speed out. Can't run and shoot, and need to grind for endless hours for everything, so it kills it for casual players or makes them pay.

 

I feel like the game was finished a while ago and they are still messing with it, and if you tinker too long you break it. I feel that DE made my favorite game and then broke it, and I don't know who to send hate mail to or scream at, so you guys have to listen to it, sorry.

Edited by ZeroPhobic
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That said, while I agree that the stamina changes were a mistake, I'm getting kind of sick about how many people on these forums blow every little thing out of proportion. Something that is less than favorable in a video game is far from signifying the end of times. Chill out.

 

You know why people are mad?

 

1. "Being able to move fast" wasn't even close to a problem. Rushers are going to exist in this game even if you nerf all Warframes to moving at the speed of Master Chief in Halo 1, because enemy drops are generally not very rewarding (compare to say, Diablo II where loot drops all the time even if most of it is basically trash), the rewards for mission completion are all frontloaded for completing the mission rather than doing things in it,

 

2. This game is a game which was advertised as 'an awesome space ninja game where you're this super agile guy/chick that moves super fast'. Anything that changes this leaves a sour taste in people's mouths. Imagine if you bought a videogame because it was super-realistic modern warfare. And then suddenly, a year in, the developers add characters made out of magical animated candy, magic wands, and laser guns. This is the exact equivalent of what's happening.

 

3. DE didn't say anything at all about this. They had a vague 'we want to make Stamina useful', and because the forums are pretty cool dudes who don't think DE are incompetent morons, we expected them to make block awesome, make dodge awesome and use stamina, and make sprinting awesome. What we got is DE defining 'useful' as 'annoying'.

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Best action is to remove the stamina rework. The old one was far better. I find this choppy. I mean, this isn't nearly as choppy as the terrible slide nerf from the past, but this nerf hurts players like myself a LOT.

 

My playstyle is BASED on speedrunning. It's BASED on stamina. It's BASED on parkour. This is like taking a tank's armor away.

 

 

You know why people are mad?

 

1. "Being able to move fast" wasn't even close to a problem. Rushers are going to exist in this game even if you nerf all Warframes to moving at the speed of Master Chief in Halo 1, because enemy drops are generally not very rewarding (compare to say, Diablo II where loot drops all the time even if most of it is basically trash), the rewards for mission completion are all frontloaded for completing the mission rather than doing things in it,

 

2. This game is a game which was advertised as 'an awesome space ninja game where you're this super agile guy/chick that moves super fast'. Anything that changes this leaves a sour taste in people's mouths. Imagine if you bought a videogame because it was super-realistic modern warfare. And then suddenly, a year in, the developers add characters made out of magical animated candy, magic wands, and laser guns. This is the exact equivalent of what's happening.

 

3. DE didn't say anything at all about this. They had a vague 'we want to make Stamina useful', and because the forums are pretty cool dudes who don't think DE are incompetent morons, we expected them to make block awesome, make dodge awesome and use stamina, and make sprinting awesome. What we got is DE defining 'useful' as 'annoying'.

 

This.

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...Why must you be so selfish and conceited to force others into your playstyle, when all they want to do is get their levels, experience the full content, and actually feel like they've accomplished something...

 

...I liken this game so much to Dark Souls now. On one hand, you have the players who seriously want nothing more to enjoy every piece of the content, and on the other, you have players who think it's their god-given right to force everyone to play the way they do, and if they don't then they're worse than human...

 

...If I join a game, I intend to get something out of it. So F*** you, F*** your rushing, and F*** your attitude. I'm going to play the game, my way, whether you like it or not. That's what everyone else seems to do. I should fit right in.

This is what I like to call a juicy contradiction. You rant on and on about how people shouldn't be forcing you to play the way they do, yet you expect us all to play your way? What a load of crap.

 

If certain people, like me, don't want to open every locker and smash every crate in existence, who are you to force me to? If I think it would be a better strategy to run past those 6 Heavy Gunners, why should you be able to tell me I can't? And honestly, why wouldn't you want to? I can understand not wanting to be in a rush to the objective all the time (that sucks, it really does. Which is why I rarely/never do it), but why would you rather be forced to stand around, waiting for your stamina to recharge, so that you can run up that wall? And what about this: what if I want to run some T3 captures, hosted by me? Why shouldn't I have the option of skillfully Tokyo-Drifting everyone there? Warframe doesn't revolve around you. If you want to go slow, find other people who want to go slow, otherwise let us play at a normal pace.

 

Also, to clarify, I don't consider myself a "rusher". I just like to be able to get from point A to point B in a timely manner. I wait at the elevators, before the bosses, and in between. To me, mobility is my greatest weapon. Aside from the Strun Wraith, that is.

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 3-4 minutes is now finishing them every 9-10 minutes. Which isn't even a huge deal.

 

3-4 minutes x10 runs = 30-40 minutes.

9-10 minutes x10 runs = 90-100 minutes. ( 1hr30min-1hr40min)

 

So you're basically adding an hour for ten minutes. Not a huge deal, huh? 

I've also heard stories of players who took 50+ runs to get a warframe's pieces.

 

3-4 minutes x50 runs = 150-200 minutes. (2hrs30min-3hrs20min)

9-10 minutes x50 runs = 450-500 minutes. (7hrs30min-8hrs20min) 

 

 

Which isn't even a huge deal.

 

k.

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3-4 minutes x10 runs = 30-40 minutes.

9-10 minutes x10 runs = 90-100 minutes. ( 1hr30min-1hr40min)

 

So you're basically adding an hour for ten minutes. Not a huge deal, huh? 

I've also heard stories of players who took 50+ runs to get a warframe's pieces.

 

3-4 minutes x50 runs = 150-200 minutes. (2hrs30min-3hrs20min)

9-10 minutes x50 runs = 450-500 minutes. (7hrs30min-8hrs20min) 

 

 

 

k.

Math is scary... and death for the casual gamer.

Edited by ZeroPhobic
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You know what, people are still going to rush to the extraction point. Nerfing my ability to be fluid IN COMBAT is not how you stop people from rushing the gate. 5-9 minutes of walking down corridors with nothing in them is not what I call fun. Slowly jogging at my enemies is tedious. I'm already sick of "it's to stop rushing" as an argument. I can think of ten better solutions to rushing than nerfing combat. 

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