Revenant Rework

[(PSN)randy_lahey__--]

On 2019-02-07 at 9:34 PM, JohnLemon123 said:

A ''defense'' would've been the dissection of everything you disagree with. going ''lul, you're just mad cuz you're bad'' does pretty much the exactly opposite, and makes it seem as though you don't actually have much retort.

As for the ''double standard'' bit, you're correct... theoretically. As i stated, rhino becomes a lesser revenant (as far as tanking goes) past level 200. However, this issue is twofold :

Rhino does FAR more than just tank : after chroma's vex armor, his ''roar'' buff is the second strongest damage-boosting ability that any frame has to offer, as it boosts All damage sources. On top of that, he's also a great provider of CC, which becomes more and more effective as the enemy level swells (making up for the loss of survivability in the process)

As i just stated, it takes a very, VERY long while for revenant to out-tank rhino, and that content (as stated before) doesn't really exist unless you go out of your way to ''create'' it. HOWEVER, the enthrall pillars start to show their lack of scaling much earlier than that, around level 80 (although admittedly only against armor), which is content that, at this point, has pretty much become the norm for ''high level''. Besides, everything works on the star chart. Ember, one of the absolute weakest frames, is a mass murderer from earth to Pluto, but is picked for endgame about as often as, say... a titania in arbitrations.

At the end of the day, i'm pretty sure than all of us know that none of this has much point : we're all just a bunch of wannabe armchair developers bearing witness to whatever DE decides to grace us with, and all of these ''rework threads'' are beyond meaningless (just look at the recent nyx / Titania reworks) apart from making us feel good by telling ourselves ''i could do better''. 

This post is a month old but your neglect of revenants infinitely scaling damage made me very angry. Do you not know about it? Or did you just choose to not mention it? 

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

Revenant is actually fairly alright.  Good survivability and damage.  He's just extremely boring, thus no one plays him and he'll likely be forgotten.

[JohnLemon123]

4 hours ago, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

This post is a month old but your neglect of revenants infinitely scaling damage made me very angry. Do you not know about it? Or did you just choose to not mention it? 

I can assure you that I am fully aware of it's existence. However, this theoretically amazing '' infinitely scaling'' method of damage-dealing is at best mediocre for a bunch of reasons :

- It only really works with thralls, which are a botched, horrible mechanic (particularly in multilayer), and one that DE adamantly refuses to make better

- It's incredibly slow and awkward. And before you try and say '' but the enthrall effect spreads!'', remember that in anything that isn't solo, they survive about as long as ember does in sorties. 

- It's ridiculously clunky. You need a bunch of thralls AND a cast of reave to do in 10 seconds what danse macabre would do in 2. 

- It's incredibly expensive. Reave itself costs 50 energy. Add to that the fact that you need to cast enthrall beforehand, and the price starts to get dumb. However, because reave is only good beyond 250 percent strength, you'll very likely run blind rage, making the already high costs skyrocket to ludicrous numbers. 

- It's not worth it. Sure, the ability to one shot things regardless of their level sounds fun (hell, that's garuda's entire premise), but it really isn't necessary until beyond level 200, which is content that doesn't exist unless you go out of your way to make it happen. 

Don't be '' very angry'' when people gloss over mediocre mechanics that are barely worth mentioning. Be angry that these mechanics haven't yet been made into something actually decent enough to warrant attention. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

19 hours ago, (PS4)randy_lahey__-- said:

This post is a month old but your neglect of revenants infinitely scaling damage made me very angry. Do you not know about it? Or did you just choose to not mention it? 

Honestly, it’s probably the worst execution of % Damage I’ve seen. Being limited to only doing it to 7 enemies max (because it only works on thralls) really limits the potential of the ability. Especially since we then got Garuda who has infinite scaling damage and isn’t limited to dealing it to only 7 enemies.

Edited March 5, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 hours ago, (PS4)feuerhund99 said:

Revenant is actually fairly alright.  Good survivability and damage.  He's just extremely boring, thus no one plays him and he'll likely be forgotten.

Who?

But for real Rev is genuinely one of the worst frames in the game. He not like Vauban or Wukong who have no place in the game anymore. But overall he’s just a horribly designed frame.

Edited March 4, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[NocturnalTrance]

I like your idea for the 1 ability! 

[Mu_Gera]

A good change you missed for danse macabre is for it to adapt to more health types, or change the default damage type to radiation for anything that's not armor, shield, or infested flesh.

And to play more on the adaptation aspect that rev is missing is to change his passive into like an unranked version of adaptation. Sorta like equinox's passive and equilibrium.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

11 minutes ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

A good change you missed for danse macabre is for it to adapt to more health types, or change the default damage type to radiation for anything that's not armor, shield, or infested flesh.

And to play more on the adaptation aspect that rev is missing is to change his passive into like an unranked version of adaptation. Sorta like equinox's passive and equilibrium.

I was going to make his passive that, but then I just made his 2 a shield with adaptation.

why would there need to be a default damage type when not hitting certain enemy types. You’ll always be hitting those certain enemy types.

[Mu_Gera]

On 2019-03-04 at 9:18 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

why would there need to be a default damage type when not hitting certain enemy types. You’ll always be hitting those certain enemy types.

Nah, I'm pretty sure it doesn't adapt to unarmored, unshielded, or any infested enemies that don't have infested flesh. The infested one is particularly bad since it only adapts to the weakest units and ancients make gas nearly useless. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

Nah, I'm pretty sure it doesn't adapt to unarmored, unshielded, or any infested enemies that don't have infested flesh. The infested one is particularly bad since it only adapts to the weakest units and ancients make gas nearly useless. 

I mean if it’s just an enemy without any of those attributes any damage type would be effective.

[Mu_Gera]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean if it’s just an enemy without any of those attributes any damage type would be effective.

Yeah but it could adapt even more effectively to viral for flesh targets and radiation for whatever health type ancients have. 

It's also sorta boring that the beams aren't that adaptive, again cause of the whole sentient motif that rev has but is lacking. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 hour ago, -Bv-Concarne said:

Yeah but it could adapt even more effectively to viral for flesh targets and radiation for whatever health type ancients have. 

It's also sorta boring that the beams aren't that adaptive, again cause of the whole sentient motif that rev has but is lacking. 

If it could adapt to everything perfectly it would be too strong.

[Mu_Gera]

22 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If it could adapt to everything perfectly it would be too strong.

Nah, not if you consider how the ability works already. And it wouldn't be perfect anyways but more like appropriate for the enemies it's adapting to. 

[Redfox-Prime]

I think Revenant could do with some changes. I know he's really good, but I feel like he's a bit awkward and boring to play personally compared to most frames. The thing that I really dislike about him however is that his theme is all over the place. I was really hyped for the Sentient theme, but I feel like he doesn't have much "Sentient" going for him, especially since the upcoming New War and the umbral stuff make Sentients an interesting upcoming theme for the game. Whether he's strong or not is one thing, but I think they should give better natural synergy to his abilities instead of what feels like a mish-mash of useful but disjointed skills. As for his current passive, Sentient Retaliation, I feel like it's a bit uninteresting. It shouldn't be part of his passive that his 2 resist some Eidolon's attacks, it should just be in the ability. And resisting magnetic proc from the water in the plains and all is cool, but why not make it a bit more general like "immune to magnetic procs" (since he's so energy consuming) or "immune to status effects from the environment" (to include stuff like electric mines and laser doors for convenience). Or maybe give him a weaker version of the Adaptation mod like Equilibrium for Equinox (as mentioned prior). I liked for the most part the ideas introduced by OP to improve his theme (dunno about balancing), especially channeled Reave which would be a fun utility and reduced cost for Dance (because many frames with really powerful channel ult are just way more useful considering the energy consumption, like Mesa's Peacemaker). I also think considering his Sentient nature, he should have a way to weaken the Eidolon's / Profit Taker shields by reaving through it or something, or maybe either protect or buff operators. Just a few random thoughts.