Valkyr idea (rework?)

[Mados.sys]

I'’ve been a Valkyr fan since she came out back in the day, she was unique, the first warframe with an Exalted weapon, she was tough and she had a pretty unique set of abilities, but as time passed she ended up receiving more nerfs than buffs. By comparing her to the so called Poster Boy, the only noticeable buffs given to Valkyr where done to Hysteria’s combos and attacks as well as giving  Ripline  that x2 - x4 thingy to make it stronger and more efficient, but at the end of the day, they were little Buffs that could be seen as a band aid, honestly.

As i always say, Excalibur’s hyped rework made him a direct upgrade to Valkyr, giving him better mobility, better crowd control with damage and also a broken Exalted weapon in comparison to Valkyr’s, and that's not okay, Excalibur is DE's baby so i don't expect him to ever get nerfed, but has DE thought about the nerfs they did to Hysteria in comparison to Exalted Blade’s nerfs?

If you're not careful enough with Hysteria and end up using the ability for more than 50 seconds you'll probably get instantly deleted due to Hysteria’s debuff, an absurd nerf in my opinion if she's supposed to be an angry berserker, not to mention the fact that she has some sort of overheat that makes Hysteria drain up to +500% of her energy as time goes by while using it. I'm not an Hysteria main, that ability not the only reason why i use her, but when i do use it’s for like a panic button, i can't stop noticing those two details: i can't use Hysteria that much because my energy would be instantly drained in a few seconds, and if i somehow could have more energy, the built-in debuff that she receives when de-activating Hysteria is always dangerous, luckily only my shields get deleted when that happens, but i’ve died instantly because of that more than one time.

If DE gave her those nerfs because "Hysteria was an abusive and op ability", then why hasn’t Exalted Blade received the same nerfs? Exalted Blade is 10 times more broken when used with Chromatic Blade and it's constantly being overused and abused all the time, that's a bit hypocritical from their part, you know (And no, the fact that Excalibur doesn't become immortal is not enough of a reason, because the health he can gain from the Chromatic Blade augment and Healing Return it’s just absurd, he can literally become immortal as well with no problem at all).

• Ripline: Honestly, it’s only good for mobility but it’s not even that useful because casting the ability in mid air makes you lose all your momentum, making things slower compared to Slash dash, Rhino charge and Worm hole, oh and using it against enemies... damn, do we seriously have to talk about that?, she can only attack one enemy at a time and the damage is not enough to make it worth, it's just a crowd control ability but instead of crowd is just a “single control”, not only the damage is pretty low but also the animation is slow as well, making it not viable to be used most of the time, only if you want to have fun by throwing and pulling enemies but that's just it, a situational ability.

My recommendation for this ability to be worth using would be to make it a charge ability, when you charge it a circle should appear like Garuda's Seeking Talons, but having like a 25% or a 50% of Seeking Talons area, all the enemies inside of that reticle should all be pulled in with hopefully x4 / x6 damage to make it worth using for killing enemies, and also: make the ability more fluid for movement because that momentum lost in if you perform a mid air re-cast is seriously uncomfortable.

 

• Warcry: The ability itself is very uself and the extra armor comes in handy, but something that i have to say about it is that it only affects enemies within the area (Yeah duh) and that's basically it, the rest of the enemies are moving at normal speed, unaffected, not only that but the augment Eternal War makes things a bit... incomfortable, yeah i like the fact that you can have an increased duration for Warcry by killing enemies, but you can no longer slow enemies down because you'd have to recast the ability again, which means waiting for it to end first.

A nice solution for this would be to make Warcry a constant aura that follows Valkyr instead of a 1 time AoE; allies within said area get increased melee speed and increased armor, while enemies within the area are slowed down, that way Eternal War wouldn't just be Eternal solely for the user and it would keep said effects until you run out of time

 

• Paralysis: So... the fact that the ability costs 5 energy is already pretty cool for what it has to offer, but my problem is: why the damage is based on the amount of shields Valkyr has?, that should be removed, honestly, and make Paralysis do a determined amount of damage that is worth to be used, because let's be honest, Valkyr’s Shields are always on 0 and that means that the ability Will always do 0 damage as well, but when you have overshields (thanks to a Mag for example) you can do a very nice amount of impact damage, if you're lucky enough to keep them before casting it.

Paralysis should have around 1500 impact damage at least in my opinion, it’s a very short ranged ability so that should compensate it, and not only would come in handy for the stun she already has, but would come in handy for killing low / mid tier Corpus enemies (because Grineers laugh at Impact damage at the end of the day).

 

• Hysteria: I already talked about this at the beginning but i have to mention it again just to make things clear, the nerf that Hysteria got was hypocritical from DE’s behalf and totally unnecesary if Valkyr's claws have a seriously short range, not only that but she's not the fastest warframe so it's hard to run from point A to B and from B to C to kill enemies, it takes more time compared to other abilitys like Exalted blade where you just stay on a stationary spot shooting like a turret without having to move at all.

The nerfs applied to Hysteria should be removed, the damage debuff applied to Valkyr by using Hysteria  and the "overheat" it builds up should be removed as well, and if DE wants to make things more fair then they should remove her immortality and instead replace it with more armor, +150 or +200% armor to keep that immortality feeling which would make sense when thinking about how Valkyr becomes stronger the angrier she gets. Also, the ability while active should give Valkyr +20 or +25% sprint speed to compensate the short range, that way running from crowd to crowd of enemies wouldn't be that slow and tedious, also the augment should get something else instead, jumping from enemy to enemie feels weird and having to point the reticle to them while spamming the button to see if she pounces or not doesn't make it a good augment honestly, maybe she can have the augment implemented on her base kit like Nezha's rework did on his 2nd ability since it doesn't make that much of a difference, at least compared to Chromatic Blade.

 

As i’ve said: i'm a Valkyr main, so i can pretty much say for experience that those changes would seriously help her to become better and not just the worse version of Excalibur, i'm not sure if this can be called a rework, i consider it to be more like buffs that she seriously needs to adapt and get back in the game like the Berserker Queen she is, hopefully DE Will think about this and make it happen, i honestly don't expect it but i wanted to try at least.

[peterc3]

3 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

help her to become better and not just the worse version of Excalibur

I honestly doubt you have ever used Valkyr, if this is how you see it. You know precisely why Hysteria got what it did and why it is in no way comparable to EB.

4 minutes ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

The nerfs applied to Hysteria should be removed, the damage debuff applied to Valkyr by using Hysteria  and the "overheat" it builds up should be removed as well, and if DE wants to make things more fair then they should remove her immortality and instead replace it with more armor, +150 or +200% armor to keep that immortality feeling which would make sense when thinking about how Valkyr becomes stronger the angrier she gets. Also, the ability while active should give Valkyr +20 or +25% sprint speed to compensate the short range, that way running from crowd to crowd of enemies wouldn't be that slow and tedious, also the augment should get something else instead, jumping from enemy to enemie feels weird and having to point the reticle to them while spamming the button to see if she pounces or not doesn't make it a good augment honestly, maybe she can have the augment implemented on her base kit like Nezha's rework did on his 2nd ability since it doesn't make that much of a difference, at least compared to Chromatic Blade.

This is an awful change.

[AtsiaZ]

Didn't people already go over this in your other thread? EB is nowhere near a broken ability. You only make yourself look bad the more you try to claim Excal is  a better Valkyr. especially when it's been explained in depth how wrong that is.

 

[GrimAtrament]

i do't remember exalted blade coming with immunity to all damage

[Mados.sys]

6 hours ago, Atsia said:

Didn't people already go over this in your other thread? EB is nowhere near a broken ability. You only make yourself look bad the more you try to claim Excal is  a better Valkyr. especially when it's been explained in depth how wrong that is.

 

Yeah but on that topic i was talking about Excali and all the things he got so far, but no one got the idea, and now i wanted to talk about how Valkyr could become more useful, on CC specially.

And yeah i'm pretty sure i got bad reputation specially from the salty and toxic excaliblade fanboys, but it's something worth mentioning because of the hypocrisy between the nerfs on Hysteria and EB general performance.

I'm sorry but look, i hate mentioning that Excalibur is a better Valkyr, i seriously do, but it's just the truth, Excalibur has better CC and DMG capabilitys with extremely long range, while Valkyr is tanky and has really short range, her claws doesn't shoot infinite waves that punch through tanks, her paralysis has the shield based damage making it seriously useless to deal damage and it only works for a short range CC ability, her Ripline cannot be compared with Slash dash because of damage and multiple targeting, and a more fluid and fast dash for movility compared to Ripline stoping you in mid air when re-casting the ability, slowing you down instead of increasing the speed like a catapult.

If you can, please specify what Valkyr has that can be better than Excalibur, without mentioning immortality, they both have it partially, maybe the spin attack of hysteria?... paralysis cost 5 energy? and that would be it i think, i don't want to mention warcry because they both have advantages, so beside that, those are the 2 things that can make her better.

 

7 hours ago, peterc3 said:

I honestly doubt you have ever used Valkyr, if this is how you see it. You know precisely why Hysteria got what it did and why it is in no way comparable to EB.

This is an awful change.

I did use it, more that you know about her i doubt.

I know why Hysteria got the nerfs, and now looking at things, it felt like an absurd and awful nerf that makes EB shine even more compared to Hysteria, i had to check the wiki 5 times to make sure what in the hell was happening with the things Valkyr got, the amount of energy, the instakill at certain amount of damage, and the circle that expands, Hysteria just got nerfed because of the "abuse of his immortality" practicly but now you cannot be immortal without risking yourself to get killed by the ability that is suppose to make you invincible if you use it too much, and that's why i recommended that "awful" change, remove the immortality and make her more tanky, making Hysteria an useful ability for the next melee 3.0, because Exalted abilitys will be used with your fire weapons as well, not only will be better but also will make things fair if DE fears about immortality being abused, instead she'll have a defensive and sprint boost to resist more and move faster. cof shooting infinite waves isn't abusive at all cof

Or maybe you are just the kind of person who likes to go against the waterfall, so can you please tell me what would you do to upgrade Hysteria without giving DE minimal reasons to nerf her?

5 hours ago, hazerddex said:

i do't remember exalted blade coming with immunity to all damage

I didn't either, last time i checked Exalted blade couldn't grant you absurds amount of hp/s like an infinite vampire, and they thought Hysteria was the abused one that needed a nerf.

And last time i checked, Exalted blade got nerfed because they wanted to make Excalibur a swordsman instead of a turret, ironicly he still being a turret, i found that quote funny.

 

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[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

I'’ve been a Valkyr fan since she came out back in the day, she was unique, the first warframe with an Exalted weapon, she was tough and she had a pretty unique set of abilities, but as time passed she ended up receiving more nerfs than buffs. By comparing her to the so called Poster Boy, the only noticeable buffs given to Valkyr where done to Hysteria’s combos and attacks as well as giving  Ripline  that x2 - x4 thingy to make it stronger and more efficient, but at the end of the day, they were little Buffs that could be seen as a band aid, honestly.

I don't see why you're comparing the two.  Excalibur is a dps frame with hard cc.  Valkyr is a rage tank melee based frame.  They both have an exalted weapon and both can open enemies to finishers.  that's really it comparison wise.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

As i always say, Excalibur’s hyped rework made him a direct upgrade to Valkyr, giving him better mobility, better crowd control with damage and also a broken Exalted weapon in comparison to Valkyr’s, and that's not okay, Excalibur is DE's baby so i don't expect him to ever get nerfed, but has DE thought about the nerfs they did to Hysteria in comparison to Exalted Blade’s nerfs?

Valkyr's 4 gives her total damage immunity.  It doesn't matter how good excal can be.  She is more survivable.  But regardless you need to move along.  This is becoming less of a thread about Valkyr and more of a thread about your continued hate campaign about Excalibur.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

If you're not careful enough with Hysteria and end up using the ability for more than 50 seconds you'll probably get instantly deleted due to Hysteria’s debuff, an absurd nerf in my opinion if she's supposed to be an angry berserker, not to mention the fact that she has some sort of overheat that makes Hysteria drain up to +500% of her energy as time goes by while using it. I'm not an Hysteria main, that ability not the only reason why i use her, but when i do use it’s for like a panic button, i can't stop noticing those two details: i can't use Hysteria that much because my energy would be instantly drained in a few seconds, and if i somehow could have more energy, the built-in debuff that she receives when de-activating Hysteria is always dangerous, luckily only my shields get deleted when that happens, but i’ve died instantly because of that more than one time.

Valkyr has always had that damage stored/reflected back on her mechanic.  DE simply made UI changes and a ring around her to help you better understand the mechanic.  If no enemies are in your AoE when you take it off then you don't take the damage.  As someone who has tons of hours on her this never happens to me.  It happened maybe 3-4 times total in my entire warframe career.  And even then it was due to something like a scrambi turning my ult off or me accidentally walking into a nully bubble.  The energy drain ramp up was added in because people could spend entire missions inside her ultimate.  Rather than simply removing the invulnerability on it they added the ramp up mechanic.  Honestly it's not a big deal if you mod correctly.  I can still sit inside her ultimate for a few minutes if I really wanted to.  But I use it more in short bursts.  Which is how I think it's meant to be used.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

If DE gave her those nerfs because "Hysteria was an abusive and op ability", then why hasn’t Exalted Blade received the same nerfs? Exalted Blade is 10 times more broken when used with Chromatic Blade and it's constantly being overused and abused all the time, that's a bit hypocritical from their part, you know (And no, the fact that Excalibur doesn't become immortal is not enough of a reason, because the health he can gain from the Chromatic Blade augment and Healing Return it’s just absurd, he can literally become immortal as well with no problem at all).

Valkyr ignores damage.  Excal doesn't.  Not comparable.  And again.  Drop.  Excal.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

• Ripline: Honestly, it’s only good for mobility but it’s not even that useful because casting the ability in mid air makes you lose all your momentum, making things slower compared to Slash dash, Rhino charge and Worm hole, oh and using it against enemies... damn, do we seriously have to talk about that?, she can only attack one enemy at a time and the damage is not enough to make it worth, it's just a crowd control ability but instead of crowd is just a “single control”, not only the damage is pretty low but also the animation is slow as well, making it not viable to be used most of the time, only if you want to have fun by throwing and pulling enemies but that's just it, a situational ability.

My recommendation for this ability to be worth using would be to make it a charge ability, when you charge it a circle should appear like Garuda's Seeking Talons, but having like a 25% or a 50% of Seeking Talons area, all the enemies inside of that reticle should all be pulled in with hopefully x4 / x6 damage to make it worth using for killing enemies, and also: make the ability more fluid for movement because that momentum lost in if you perform a mid air re-cast is seriously uncomfortable.

Not a fan of your change.  I'd rather keep it as a mobility tool.  Just make that mobility better.  Have her get pulled to the enemy for a pounce like animation that does ground finisher animation and damage.  Or have the enemy get pulled to her without ragdoll into a finisher animation.  Then give players the ability to move Valkyr while riding the zipline.  So she could swing herself off of things like a grapple in apex legends/titanfall.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

 

• Warcry: The ability itself is very uself and the extra armor comes in handy, but something that i have to say about it is that it only affects enemies within the area (Yeah duh) and that's basically it, the rest of the enemies are moving at normal speed, unaffected, not only that but the augment Eternal War makes things a bit... incomfortable, yeah i like the fact that you can have an increased duration for Warcry by killing enemies, but you can no longer slow enemies down because you'd have to recast the ability again, which means waiting for it to end first.

A nice solution for this would be to make Warcry a constant aura that follows Valkyr instead of a 1 time AoE; allies within said area get increased melee speed and increased armor, while enemies within the area are slowed down, that way Eternal War wouldn't just be Eternal solely for the user and it would keep said effects until you run out of time

The slow effect exists to give Valkyr immediate breathing room.  It's not meant to be a main stay.  Warcry doesn't need to be touched at all.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

 

• Paralysis: So... the fact that the ability costs 5 energy is already pretty cool for what it has to offer, but my problem is: why the damage is based on the amount of shields Valkyr has?, that should be removed, honestly, and make Paralysis do a determined amount of damage that is worth to be used, because let's be honest, Valkyr’s Shields are always on 0 and that means that the ability Will always do 0 damage as well, but when you have overshields (thanks to a Mag for example) you can do a very nice amount of impact damage, if you're lucky enough to keep them before casting it.

Paralysis should have around 1500 impact damage at least in my opinion, it’s a very short ranged ability so that should compensate it, and not only would come in handy for the stun she already has, but would come in handy for killing low / mid tier Corpus enemies (because Grineers laugh at Impact damage at the end of the day).

I think the damage of the ability should be dropped entirely.  It doesn't fit her thematically and is messy mechanically to gain usage out of it.  It is currently a way to delete heavy units via opening them for finishers.  or with augment in toe a room wide spammable cc effect.  Personally i'd love to see her 2 and 3 rolled into one ability and her be given a new third ability.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

 

• Hysteria: I already talked about this at the beginning but i have to mention it again just to make things clear, the nerf that Hysteria got was hypocritical from DE’s behalf and totally unnecesary if Valkyr's claws have a seriously short range, not only that but she's not the fastest warframe so it's hard to run from point A to B and from B to C to kill enemies, it takes more time compared to other abilitys like Exalted blade where you just stay on a stationary spot shooting like a turret without having to move at all.

The nerfs applied to Hysteria should be removed, the damage debuff applied to Valkyr by using Hysteria  and the "overheat" it builds up should be removed as well, and if DE wants to make things more fair then they should remove her immortality and instead replace it with more armor, +150 or +200% armor to keep that immortality feeling which would make sense when thinking about how Valkyr becomes stronger the angrier she gets. Also, the ability while active should give Valkyr +20 or +25% sprint speed to compensate the short range, that way running from crowd to crowd of enemies wouldn't be that slow and tedious, also the augment should get something else instead, jumping from enemy to enemie feels weird and having to point the reticle to them while spamming the button to see if she pounces or not doesn't make it a good augment honestly, maybe she can have the augment implemented on her base kit like Nezha's rework did on his 2nd ability since it doesn't make that much of a difference, at least compared to Chromatic Blade.

She has her hysterical assault augment which is effected by range.  She has zero issues closing gaps so range is not a problem for her.  And with the up and coming melee 3.0 changes she'll be able to use guns in her ultimate.  So she'll be quite scary unless they change her ultimate along side 3.0.  Armor has deminishing returns the higher you go up.  You'd be better off slapping a flat damage reduction during her ult if you were going to remove the invulnerability.  But I don't see the need to remove it at all.  Nor remove/revert anything you're asking for.  I could see both warcry and hysteria's augments being added to their abilities.  But there isn't a compelling reason to.

9 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

 

As i’ve said: i'm a Valkyr main, so i can pretty much say for experience that those changes would seriously help her to become better and not just the worse version of Excalibur, i'm not sure if this can be called a rework, i consider it to be more like buffs that she seriously needs to adapt and get back in the game like the Berserker Queen she is, hopefully DE Will think about this and make it happen, i honestly don't expect it but i wanted to try at least.

As a long time valkyr main I can safely say none of your suggestions would make her better than she currently is nor would make her more relevant.  Valkyr's problem is that she's dated.  She's literally just a moving melee weapon.  Which in it of itself isn't half a bad idea.  But it's kind of boring outside of her ultimate.  If you go out of your way to use her ultimate's combos and her 3 for finishers she feels more engaging.  But you're not really pushed to do either.  You either make an eternal war build with hirudo and never die.  Or you make a hysteria build and spam her pounce to gap close and slide attack to kill everything because it does 10 and a half nukes worth of damage.

When/if DE does ever revisit her they either need to double down on her being "the melee frame" and make melee more engaging for her (which either way will be the case with melee 3.0.  But she still should get more oomph.)  Or they need to go the fan favorite route and re tool her into being a proper rage/berzerker like character.  Garuda kind of does this.  But in a more defensive and range manner.  Valk could easily do something similar but in a different way that would be 100% unique.

[DerGreif2]

Hey I would consider myself also a Kitty main and have to say that your ideas... are not great at all.

I would suggest that her one should be what the hysteria augment is: a leap into melee range. She is a melee character so that would be better than the Ripline. I never used it ever and I play her a lot.

Her two is totally fine. I would like to see the melee speed gets changes to a melee damage buff. In the moment with to much power your weapons bug out. I understand the point of it but if we have such things like primed fury and berserker already it should not just be attack speed. But that's personal preference. And yo the aura as you call it: it's the same with 3. She is not a CC frame nor does she need it.

So yo the three: if you use it for damage... you do something wrong. I also dont dont like this ability so much because we try to half the already not existant shields. You should use 8t to engage a group of enemies then use it and do a finisher on the strongest target. I think that is the reason for that skill. But I also want to change that.

Now to Hysteria. Stop comparing Hysteria to Exaulted blade. They are totally different. In Hysteria she is immune and has livesteal so that she can recover lost health. I even build a new Valkyr prime to have a Warcary and a Hysteria Valkyr.  I also think that it should be stronger but I would say: let us see what melee 3.0 brings. Steve stated that you can change weapons in hysteria with melee 2.9. If that's the case without going out of the mode or could be a timed God mode even without using the claws that also could be a lot stronger with the fixed range of primed reach then.

 

That are my opinions about this.

[GrimAtrament]

46 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I don't see why you're comparing the two.  Excalibur is a dps frame with hard cc.  Valkyr is a rage tank melee based frame.  They both have an exalted weapon and both can open enemies to finishers.  that's really it comparison wise.

Valkyr's 4 gives her total damage immunity.  It doesn't matter how good excal can be.  She is more survivable.  But regardless you need to move along.  This is becoming less of a thread about Valkyr and more of a thread about your continued hate campaign about Excalibur.

Valkyr has always had that damage stored/reflected back on her mechanic.  DE simply made UI changes and a ring around her to help you better understand the mechanic.  If no enemies are in your AoE when you take it off then you don't take the damage.  As someone who has tons of hours on her this never happens to me.  It happened maybe 3-4 times total in my entire warframe career.  And even then it was due to something like a scrambi turning my ult off or me accidentally walking into a nully bubble.  The energy drain ramp up was added in because people could spend entire missions inside her ultimate.  Rather than simply removing the invulnerability on it they added the ramp up mechanic.  Honestly it's not a big deal if you mod correctly.  I can still sit inside her ultimate for a few minutes if I really wanted to.  But I use it more in short bursts.  Which is how I think it's meant to be used.

Valkyr ignores damage.  Excal doesn't.  Not comparable.  And again.  Drop.  Excal.

Not a fan of your change.  I'd rather keep it as a mobility tool.  Just make that mobility better.  Have her get pulled to the enemy for a pounce like animation that does ground finisher animation and damage.  Or have the enemy get pulled to her without ragdoll into a finisher animation.  Then give players the ability to move Valkyr while riding the zipline.  So she could swing herself off of things like a grapple in apex legends/titanfall.

The slow effect exists to give Valkyr immediate breathing room.  It's not meant to be a main stay.  Warcry doesn't need to be touched at all.

I think the damage of the ability should be dropped entirely.  It doesn't fit her thematically and is messy mechanically to gain usage out of it.  It is currently a way to delete heavy units via opening them for finishers.  or with augment in toe a room wide spammable cc effect.  Personally i'd love to see her 2 and 3 rolled into one ability and her be given a new third ability.

She has her hysterical assault augment which is effected by range.  She has zero issues closing gaps so range is not a problem for her.  And with the up and coming melee 3.0 changes she'll be able to use guns in her ultimate.  So she'll be quite scary unless they change her ultimate along side 3.0.  Armor has deminishing returns the higher you go up.  You'd be better off slapping a flat damage reduction during her ult if you were going to remove the invulnerability.  But I don't see the need to remove it at all.  Nor remove/revert anything you're asking for.  I could see both warcry and hysteria's augments being added to their abilities.  But there isn't a compelling reason to.

As a long time valkyr main I can safely say none of your suggestions would make her better than she currently is nor would make her more relevant.  Valkyr's problem is that she's dated.  She's literally just a moving melee weapon.  Which in it of itself isn't half a bad idea.  But it's kind of boring outside of her ultimate.  If you go out of your way to use her ultimate's combos and her 3 for finishers she feels more engaging.  But you're not really pushed to do either.  You either make an eternal war build with hirudo and never die.  Or you make a hysteria build and spam her pounce to gap close and slide attack to kill everything because it does 10 and a half nukes worth of damage.

When/if DE does ever revisit her they either need to double down on her being "the melee frame" and make melee more engaging for her (which either way will be the case with melee 3.0.  But she still should get more oomph.)  Or they need to go the fan favorite route and re tool her into being a proper rage/berzerker like character.  Garuda kind of does this.  But in a more defensive and range manner.  Valk could easily do something similar but in a different way that would be 100% unique.

the main reason i never felt the need to play valkyr other then to level was 

grapple is a product of a time when stanima was still around and parkor 2.0 was not out. like high jump it should be replaced. or at lest given more use then "pulls enemies to you and pulls you across the ground. closing distance with enemies in warframe has never been a problem. after parkor 2.0

Paralyze is not even a finisher openner you would think a melee frame like her would have.

hysteria's screen effect bugs me.

 

[Kai_Shiba]

12 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

hysteria's screen effect bugs me.

 

Screen effect is caused by the display option called Color Correction, which just puts a filter on everything hiding the true colors.

 

[GrimAtrament]

2 minutes ago, Kai_Shiba said:

Screen effect is caused by the display option called Color Correction, which just puts a filter on everything hiding the true colors.

 

oh thank god there's a fix i was worried about having eye bleed with valkyr prime

[Mados.sys]

16 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

I don't see why you're comparing the two.  Excalibur is a dps frame with hard cc.  Valkyr is a rage tank melee based frame.  They both have an exalted weapon and both can open enemies to finishers.  that's really it comparison wise.

Simple, because is the same issue that Nezha and Rhino had, they are both similar but different, but Excalibur can do better CC, damage and control, while Valkyr is only tanky, yes, they both have an exalted weapon, but Valkyr doesn't shoot infinite waves and cost little to no energy, instead Valkyr has the same range of a dagger and also cost absurds amount of energy, similar to Mesa and Revenant, but she's not a turret, neither a long ranged dancer with massive damage capabilitys, you understand now?

 

17 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Valkyr has always had that damage stored/reflected back on her mechanic.  DE simply made UI changes and a ring around her to help you better understand the mechanic.  If no enemies are in your AoE when you take it off then you don't take the damage.  As someone who has tons of hours on her this never happens to me.  It happened maybe 3-4 times total in my entire warframe career.  And even then it was due to something like a scrambi turning my ult off or me accidentally walking into a nully bubble.  The energy drain ramp up was added in because people could spend entire missions inside her ultimate.  Rather than simply removing the invulnerability on it they added the ramp up mechanic.  Honestly it's not a big deal if you mod correctly.  I can still sit inside her ultimate for a few minutes if I really wanted to.  But I use it more in short bursts.  Which is how I think it's meant to be used.

I'm sorry, always? even when she came out and Hysteria was a duration ability? and is not a better understand of the mechanic, because that wasn't there before, instead it felt like an absurd nerf as i said, and i understand that people could spend entire missions and entire hours inside Hysteria, but it still being something hypocritical because those same people are the ones spending hours and hours spamming Exalted blade, and the ability is still untouched, how funny isn't? and it's a bit of a big deal because it forces you to go full efficent and duration if you want to use Hysteria as much as possible with not that much energy being lost, but i, someone that has her with 130% efficency and 100% duration to constantly use Warcry against enemies, is a problem, i lose around 80 energy or 100 without even noticing it so i have to use it for like 10 seconds to not lose that much, and i use her for short bursts as well just to regen all my health back, but if i want to use her for more than that, i just can't.

 

17 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Not a fan of your change.  I'd rather keep it as a mobility tool.  Just make that mobility better.  Have her get pulled to the enemy for a pounce like animation that does ground finisher animation and damage.  Or have the enemy get pulled to her without ragdoll into a finisher animation.  Then give players the ability to move Valkyr while riding the zipline.  So she could swing herself off of things like a grapple in apex legends/titanfall.

I don't know what's apex legends or titanfall, sorry, but i think you mean something like how Spiderman swing around the city right? because it doesn't sound bad at all, i like it, but if you keep it for mobility then there wouldn't be a reason to use it against enemies, so why would it have the damage? and your change doesn't sound bad, but that would be just as slow as it is now, waiting for the animation to end, the ground finisher and yada yada, that's why i thought on the circle, because picking multiple enemies at once will compensate the slow animation, with CC and decent damage.

 

17 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

The slow effect exists to give Valkyr immediate breathing room.  It's not meant to be a main stay.  Warcry doesn't need to be touched at all.

I think the damage of the ability should be dropped entirely.  It doesn't fit her thematically and is messy mechanically to gain usage out of it.  It is currently a way to delete heavy units via opening them for finishers.  or with augment in toe a room wide spammable cc effect.  Personally i'd love to see her 2 and 3 rolled into one ability and her be given a new third ability.

That's the thing, is a one time AoE, if it keeps untouched then it would be fine because i keep her duration default to use it when is necessary (so, no eternal war for me), but that aura following her would seriously compesate the lack of that slow effect when using Eternal War don't you think? and at the same time you'll slow enemies down when using hysteria, and they are running away, because i'm pretty sure it has happened to you that every enemie start to run away and you have to catch each one.

 

17 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

She has her hysterical assault augment which is effected by range.  She has zero issues closing gaps so range is not a problem for her.  And with the up and coming melee 3.0 changes she'll be able to use guns in her ultimate.  So she'll be quite scary unless they change her ultimate along side 3.0.  Armor has deminishing returns the higher you go up.  You'd be better off slapping a flat damage reduction during her ult if you were going to remove the invulnerability.  But I don't see the need to remove it at all.  Nor remove/revert anything you're asking for.  I could see both warcry and hysteria's augments being added to their abilities.  But there isn't a compelling reason to.

Augments are still being something optional and some people might not have enough capacity to put it in (like me because Umbral Mods) and it wouldn't be worth to put like 2 more formas to remove umbral mods to give her the ability to just jump, its just not worth it unless, you use the normal mods (Vitality, Intensify and Fiber), is not that big of a change or advantaje at least compared to other augments. (cough cough chromatic blade)

And actually you're right, 90% damage resistance would be pretty similar, and i don't see a reason to remove the immortality at all, but those nerfs that DE just slapped on her face end up being annoying, and removing the immortality to give her resistance is the only way they'll think about removing the nerfs.

I hope the Hysteria augment becomes part of her kit because of the little advantaje it has not being worth the slot, but the Warcry augment would be like a curse, as i said, i don't use it to cast Warcry when is necessary, i'll have to drop myself to re-cast the ability, but well you understand.

17 hours ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

As a long time valkyr main I can safely say none of your suggestions would make her better than she currently is nor would make her more relevant.  Valkyr's problem is that she's dated.  She's literally just a moving melee weapon.  Which in it of itself isn't half a bad idea.  But it's kind of boring outside of her ultimate.  If you go out of your way to use her ultimate's combos and her 3 for finishers she feels more engaging.  But you're not really pushed to do either.  You either make an eternal war build with hirudo and never die.  Or you make a hysteria build and spam her pounce to gap close and slide attack to kill everything because it does 10 and a half nukes worth of damage.

When/if DE does ever revisit her they either need to double down on her being "the melee frame" and make melee more engaging for her (which either way will be the case with melee 3.0.  But she still should get more oomph.)  Or they need to go the fan favorite route and re tool her into being a proper rage/berzerker like character.  Garuda kind of does this.  But in a more defensive and range manner.  Valk could easily do something similar but in a different way that would be 100% unique.

I mean yeah they way she is now is not bad, she's good actually but she needs an update because as you say, she's outdated, and i like to do finishers, but it still something really slow, the same problem with Ripline, while you do a finisher with hysteria or grap someone with Ripline, the rest of the team already killed the map, making her mostly viable for solo playing more than a squad warframe, and that's not bad tho, Ash is a solo warframe as well, but i wanted to suggest that mostly because i wanted to use it more on public matches, fissures and defenses without lacking on pretty much everything.

I hope DE revisit her and they do a good job tho, my suggestions aren't perfect at all, it's a more CC and damage based change, and yeah Garuda does, but i hope when they do something for my kitty, they keep her angry berserker like themed abilitys, i can't think on anything similar to Garuda's passive for example, but it would be a good start.

16 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

Hey I would consider myself also a Kitty main and have to say that your ideas... are not great at all.

I would suggest that her one should be what the hysteria augment is: a leap into melee range. She is a melee character so that would be better than the Ripline. I never used it ever and I play her a lot.

Doesn't sound bad, but you'll end up sacrificing the movility that she has, i mean she's a melee based Warframe indeed, so she need to always be close to the enemies, but what if there isn't any? i mean for example extermine or survival, or excavation, you couldn't move faster enough, while Ripline allows you to do.

 

16 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

Her two is totally fine. I would like to see the melee speed gets changes to a melee damage buff. In the moment with to much power your weapons bug out. I understand the point of it but if we have such things like primed fury and berserker already it should not just be attack speed. But that's personal preference. And yo the aura as you call it: it's the same with 3. She is not a CC frame nor does she need it.

Yeah she's not a CC frame, but Warcry and Paralysis are partially based around CC so my idea was to make it more effective, and idk if a damage buff would be better because our melees can already scale damage pretty fast and end up doing 2 - 3 hits to kill level 100 enemies, take for example Chroma since he does that and better because it's for all of his weapons.

17 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

So yo the three: if you use it for damage... you do something wrong. I also dont dont like this ability so much because we try to half the already not existant shields. You should use 8t to engage a group of enemies then use it and do a finisher on the strongest target. I think that is the reason for that skill. But I also want to change that.

I don't say that i use it for damage, i mostly use it to rush on low tier missions, to do a seriously strong CC with Warcry, leaving enemies shacking for like 15 seconds and i use it for finishers against strong enemies like Exiums, hiekka grandmas / bombards / heavy gunners / nox, i wanted to specify that, and if you want to half the shield you have the dragon keys, but the thing is that the ability use 30% of your shield to damage so the thing is, remove it for not doing that much, or make it a predetermined amount of damage, to not get those 0 grey numbers on the enemies because they constantly remove your shields on 1 to 2 shots, and i personally prefer the predetermined damage to be able to use it to finish the job or to kill low tier enemies quicker if they are around the area.

 

17 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

Now to Hysteria. Stop comparing Hysteria to Exaulted blade. They are totally different. In Hysteria she is immune and has livesteal so that she can recover lost health. I even build a new Valkyr prime to have a Warcary and a Hysteria Valkyr.  I also think that it should be stronger but I would say: let us see what melee 3.0 brings. Steve stated that you can change weapons in hysteria with melee 2.9. If that's the case without going out of the mode or could be a timed God mode even without using the claws that also could be a lot stronger with the fixed range of primed reach then.

I want to stop, seriously, but it's just like the issue with Nezha and Rhino before Nezha's rework, theyr 4th ability where the same and they still are with little differences, in this case, Exalted blade is better for the HP/s, huge CC, absurd range and DPS compared to Hysteria.

Exalted blade has lifesteal as well, aroung 50 to 200 HP/s for little to no cost compared to the 15 energy/s of Hysteria and her short range.

And that's the thing, Hysteria will become just a timed godmode wich can be abused as well with max efficency and duration, you'll be immortal on arbitration and pretty much everywhere, that's the only good point for Valkyr but looking at how DE is, they'll nerf it as well and make Exalted blade shine even more.

Hopefully they'll find a way to make Exalted weapons equal and not with absurds advantajes, like Exalted blade's abusive duration and range with HP compared to the short ranges hysteria or the punches of Baruuk that has to be build up, so he cannot use it 8 hours like Exalted blade.

[Duality52]

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Exalted blade is better for the HP/s

 

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Exalted blade has lifesteal as well, aroung 50 to 200 HP/s for little to no cost compared to the 15 energy/s of Hysteria and her short range.

Only if you mod for it, and chances are that many don't have Healing Return nor even maxed.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

And that's the thing, Hysteria will become just a timed godmode wich can be abused as well with max efficency and duration, you'll be immortal on arbitration and pretty much everywhere, that's the only good point for Valkyr but looking at how DE is, they'll nerf it as well and make Exalted blade shine even more.

DE did nerf Hysteria for that purpose so Valkyrs can't just stay in Hysteria forever. Not to mention that Excalibur can melt quickly under fire on higher levels even with just Exalted Blade, along with the more frequent usage of Radial Blind/Howl to defend himself more that drains his energy more.

1 hour ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Hopefully they'll find a way to make Exalted weapons equal and not with absurds advantajes, like Exalted blade's abusive duration and range with HP compared to the short ranges hysteria or the punches of Baruuk that has to be build up, so he cannot use it 8 hours like Exalted blade.

You make them equal, and there will be no sort of diversity between each of the weapons. While Exalted Blade has its "abusive duration and range" , Hysteria and Serene Storm can effectively protect Valkyr and Baruuk more than Excalibur in higher level missions, respectively.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

11 hours ago, Deluxe-Chimera said:

Simple, because is the same issue that Nezha and Rhino had, they are both similar but different, but Excalibur can do better CC, damage and control, while Valkyr is only tanky, yes, they both have an exalted weapon, but Valkyr doesn't shoot infinite waves and cost little to no energy, instead Valkyr has the same range of a dagger and also cost absurds amount of energy, similar to Mesa and Revenant, but she's not a turret, neither a long ranged dancer with massive damage capabilitys, you understand now?

Nezha and Rhino imo are more comparable to each other.  And this is because the way they approached the design of Nezha was based on a pre existing person.  Versus most of the frames DE makes they try to visualize an ability or a role and go from there.  Excalibur to me is someone who embodies combat itself.  Where Valkyr embodies herself as a weapon.  I can see why you compare them (and probably should have said it was a redundant question.)  If anything it was more me trying to hint at you to not mention Excal simply because the more you do the less people want to listen and the further away we get from the subject.  Which is Valkyr.

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I'm sorry, always? even when she came out and Hysteria was a duration ability? and is not a better understand of the mechanic, because that wasn't there before, instead it felt like an absurd nerf as i said, and i understand that people could spend entire missions and entire hours inside Hysteria, but it still being something hypocritical because those same people are the ones spending hours and hours spamming Exalted blade, and the ability is still untouched, how funny isn't? and it's a bit of a big deal because it forces you to go full efficent and duration if you want to use Hysteria as much as possible with not that much energy being lost, but i, someone that has her with 130% efficency and 100% duration to constantly use Warcry against enemies, is a problem, i lose around 80 energy or 100 without even noticing it so i have to use it for like 10 seconds to not lose that much, and i use her for short bursts as well just to regen all my health back, but if i want to use her for more than that, i just can't.

If I recall correctly yes, it's always been there.  I went back and looked at her change logs just to be sure.  With update 18.13 they added the ramp up effect on her energy and made her Aura visible.  The wording in the change log imo supports it being there before.  But the wording of the update itself? ehhh...could go either way.  Regardless, It's an appropriate trade off for the sheer amount of damage she's capable of doing while being invulnerable.  It's not hypocritical because exalted blade and hysteria are massively different abilities.  Excal is still very capable of dying despite the auto parry from the front.  Valkyr is absolutely not capable of dying so long as she's in her 4.  My build does not go full efficiency and duration.  I don't know what build you use, but if you're going for a hysteria build you'd have higher duration and 150% efficiency with a lot of power strength.  And if you're going for a warcry build you'd not really care about efficiency because eternal war is a thing.  So you'd be pumping duration and power strength.  Duration for the higher cap on warcry's length and power strength to buff how much armor warcry is giving you.

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I don't know what's apex legends or titanfall, sorry, but i think you mean something like how Spiderman swing around the city right? because it doesn't sound bad at all, i like it, but if you keep it for mobility then there wouldn't be a reason to use it against enemies, so why would it have the damage? and your change doesn't sound bad, but that would be just as slow as it is now, waiting for the animation to end, the ground finisher and yada yada, that's why i thought on the circle, because picking multiple enemies at once will compensate the slow animation, with CC and decent damage.

Yes how spiderman slings around is an accurate comparsion to what i'm asking for movement wise on ripline.  I was talking about doing that and the ability to fly at enemies for a finisher/pull enemies in for a finisher.  She's kind of built for finishers.

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That's the thing, is a one time AoE, if it keeps untouched then it would be fine because i keep her duration default to use it when is necessary (so, no eternal war for me), but that aura following her would seriously compesate the lack of that slow effect when using Eternal War don't you think? and at the same time you'll slow enemies down when using hysteria, and they are running away, because i'm pretty sure it has happened to you that every enemie start to run away and you have to catch each one.

As I mentioned the slow effect isn't meant to be constantly used and it doesn't really benefit her anyway.  Her 4 has her augment to gap close.  and she can use ripline to pull her closer to enemies or the enemy closer to her.  So enemies getting away is really only possible (in my eyes) if all you do is turn on warcry and then mash combos without using her other abilities.  I've not once had issues with chasing enemies down as her.

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Augments are still being something optional and some people might not have enough capacity to put it in (like me because Umbral Mods) and it wouldn't be worth to put like 2 more formas to remove umbral mods to give her the ability to just jump, its just not worth it unless, you use the normal mods (Vitality, Intensify and Fiber), is not that big of a change or advantaje at least compared to other augments. (cough cough chromatic blade)

Sounds like a case of just bad build management.  I have plenty of room to have lots of power strength and survivability mods and still have room for hysterical assault in my hysteria build and warcry in my warcry build.  Maybe you're trying to build for too much in one loadout.  FYI I only have 1 forma in my valkyr.

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And actually you're right, 90% damage resistance would be pretty similar, and i don't see a reason to remove the immortality at all, but those nerfs that DE just slapped on her face end up being annoying, and removing the immortality to give her resistance is the only way they'll think about removing the nerfs.

Similar to what? Armor buff?  Or survival?  Because if the former no.  If the latter than yes.  Damage reduction>armor always.  I don't think nor have a desire to revert her energy ramp up and remove her aura.  Both are entirely capable of being played around or modded around (in the case of the energy ramp.)

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I hope the Hysteria augment becomes part of her kit because of the little advantaje it has not being worth the slot, but the Warcry augment would be like a curse, as i said, i don't use it to cast Warcry when is necessary, i'll have to drop myself to re-cast the ability, but well you understand.

Well that's kinda the thing, augments that go in the exalus slot are not supposed to be straight up buffs.  Heck DE doesn't want normal augments to be that way.  But exalus augments are more about playstyle changes.  Things that can't be quantified on value.  If you're going for an all rounder build (like yours seems to sound) then yeah it's not really worth eeking out some more points to have.  But if you make a build specifically for hysteria you have more than enough room to have it in.  So you get a straight up mobility buff at basically no cost.  And nah.  I know why you want to.  But that doesn't mean I understand why you care so much about the slow.

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I mean yeah they way she is now is not bad, she's good actually but she needs an update because as you say, she's outdated, and i like to do finishers, but it still something really slow, the same problem with Ripline, while you do a finisher with hysteria or grap someone with Ripline, the rest of the team already killed the map, making her mostly viable for solo playing more than a squad warframe, and that's not bad tho, Ash is a solo warframe as well, but i wanted to suggest that mostly because i wanted to use it more on public matches, fissures and defenses without lacking on pretty much everything.

I don't think Valkyr can be retooled to be a team friendly frame without changing her core identity.  Nothing about a berzerker/rage tank style character really oozes team play.  I think that's exactly what Garuda is for.  (aka a violent/bloody/gore/claw-like take on a team friendly Warframe.)  Ash can be a team player actually.  Armor strip and team cloak for stealth damage/niche survivability.  Yes repeated usage of finishers is indeed slow for a horde based game.  That's why she either needs to be amped up on her berzerker/rage style and/or give her some kind of benefit for using finishers.

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I hope DE revisit her and they do a good job tho, my suggestions aren't perfect at all, it's a more CC and damage based change, and yeah Garuda does, but i hope when they do something for my kitty, they keep her angry berserker like themed abilitys, i can't think on anything similar to Garuda's passive for example, but it would be a good start.

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by (XB1)Knight Raime