So Is Stamina Back To Exactly What It Used To Be?

[Aure7]

If yes then I am probably one of the very few to be mad. New stamina mods look very exciting and they all were finally given a chance to be useful.
Such as http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Flux or http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Wind but of course people cried oceans of tears instead of trying to adjust, let game evolve and wait for upcoming changes, such as additional mod slots for agility mods only or something like that. I finally felt like the same repetitive gameplay we have now might finally have been given some depth with the new stamina and the updates were heading to a right direction, but endless community of rushers just wash good ideas away.

 

EDIT: okay I am not that negative anymore. Stamina mods are somewhat nice to have. But I still want DE to know that these major tweaks are most of the time heading the right way - making missions with more depth and there will all ways be complains.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Aure7

[LordAsmolicious]

Well i came up with an additional slot for agility mods. Since hey why not? with mods such as grapling hooks coming we would need ONE such a slot. (Just ONE to make it clear. but since the stamina has changed a lil again its fine now. still not what it used to be but that is fine )Besides who says im a whining rusher? I just dont like the fact that Slow frames were even slower thanks to that system and fast frames didnt notice it at all.  Rhino was reduced to 2 seconds of sprinting then for a few rooms you had no stamina at all... and you think that is good? How am i supposed to dodge or melee if i have no stamina at all thanks to sprinting draining it all in a few seconds?  Look at BOTH sides of coin mate. not just one. the system is a good idea but twas just badly implemented without second thoughts (imho.)

[Sagaris]

Baby want their toy...

 

It's unfortunate this games development will get nowhere if they continue to listen to any and every tantrum thrown after changes that tone down player power to introduce more meaningful choices.

[FlanShark]

Adjustment wasn't the issue. Some people enjoy speed. Going slowly is incentivised left right and centre as it is. The issue didn't need forcing.

e: Ah yes, "meaningful choices" such as "fit this mod or be unable to move like you've enjoyed moving for the past half a year+"

Edited September 15, 2013 by FlanShark

[Sagaris]

e: Ah yes, "meaningful choices" such as "fit this mod or be unable to move like you've enjoyed moving for the past half a year+"

 

Exactly! But then with less hyperbole.

[VKhaun]

The rusher problem needs to be fixed by fixing the enemies and missions and not by slowing down the player because player speed is relative. The rushers will still be faster if they built faster frames. The only difference stamina nerfs would make is &!$$ing everyone off.

Edited September 15, 2013 by VKhaun

[Enigma-Salad]

The movement possibility as it was and got fixed back was what made this game fun for me and I believe most people find this what makes the game different from generic shooter games. It was FINE as it was and did not need to be changed in order to help some silly mods to to be mandatory to move again.

[Hatr]

If yes then I am probably one of the very few to be mad. New stamina mods look very exciting and they all were finally given a chance to be useful.

Such as http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Flux or http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Wind but of course people cried oceans of tears, whined the S#&$ out of the forums instead of trying to adjust, let game evolve and wait for upcoming changes, such as additional mod slots for agility mods only or something like that. I finally felt like the same repetitive gameplay we have now might finally have been given some depth with the new stamina and the updates were heading to a right direction, but endless community of rushers just wash good ideas away.

..i don't agree to make a system around 2 mods, if you want the mods to be usefull, request a buff to them not a nerf to the system

tons of people whined about rushers, stamina got nerfed, another tons of rushers whined about being a ninja that's unable to run 20 metters without taking a break, stamina got reverted, and now you whine that it got reverted... why do you judge whiners when you're one yourself

[Aure7]

Adjustment wasn't the issue. Some people enjoy speed. Going slowly is incentivised left right and centre as it is. The issue didn't need forcing.

e: Ah yes, "meaningful choices" such as "fit this mod or be unable to move like you've enjoyed moving for the past half a year+"

 

So you want this game to stay in a closed beta state with only some weapons, frames, mods and tilesets coming update after update? I am not really throwing all the flame into rushers. It just seemed that they finally tried to force some more thought into your everyday gameplay, but since only few of us actually do something else besides farming by rushing or endless defense, it pissed everybody else off.

[Aure7]

..i don't agree to make a system around 2 mods, if you want the mods to be usefull, request a buff to them not a nerf to the system

tons of people whined about rushers, stamina got nerfed, another tons of rushers whined about being a ninja that's unable to run 20 metters without taking a break, stamina got reverted, and now you whine that it got reverted... why do you judge whiners when you're one yourself

buffing stamina mods won't help because now you're fine with stamina most of the time anyway. And when you do need something more, just slap max stamina and you're unstoppable.

[LtZefar]

The rusher problem needs to be fixed by fixing the enemies and missions and not by slowing down the player because player speed is relative. The rushers will still be faster if they built faster frames. The only difference stamina nerfs would make is &!$$ing everyone off.

The only maps worth playing are Defense and Mobile Defense. On both of these the group should focus on staying together. If they do that things will be awesome. Boss maps have some usage due to warframe blueprints.

 

Any normal map in the game will not offer anywhere near the same amount of items, mods or EXP. So people don't want to bother with them other than blasting through them. 

Same goes for Boss maps because people don't want to scavenge around the entire map for stuff when they got a boss to farm.

 

If the normal missions actually had similar EXP values people might have stayed around longer or if there where more monsters on them. But most of the time you're running through empty hallways with nothing in them. It isn't fun.

 

Stamina didn't need to be changed in the first place. It's fun being a Rhino and running pretty fast to avoid stuff or close the distance quickly. It was fun running for quite some time because I'm a Space ninja with a robot suit on. I should technically be able to run for infinitive amount of time but nope, can't have that type of fun.

 

Slowing everything down isn't going to make the game better. It's just going to make people play the maps that needs less movement. What they should aim is to make normal maps worth to play in some way. Give them a reason to kill every enemy on the map or hunt down every little box.

Don't nerf speed or stamina for that because it will just make those maps more and more worthless.

[Aure7]

The only maps worth playing are Defense and Mobile Defense. On both of these the group should focus on staying together. If they do that things will be awesome. Boss maps have some usage due to warframe blueprints.

 

Any normal map in the game will not offer anywhere near the same amount of items, mods or EXP. So people don't want to bother with them other than blasting through them. 

Same goes for Boss maps because people don't want to scavenge around the entire map for stuff when they got a boss to farm.

 

If the normal missions actually had similar EXP values people might have stayed around longer or if there where more monsters on them. But most of the time you're running through empty hallways with nothing in them. It isn't fun.

 

Stamina didn't need to be changed in the first place. It's fun being a Rhino and running pretty fast to avoid stuff or close the distance quickly. It was fun running for quite some time because I'm a Space ninja with a robot suit on. I should technically be able to run for infinitive amount of time but nope, can't have that type of fun.

 

Slowing everything down isn't going to make the game better. It's just going to make people play the maps that needs less movement. What they should aim is to make normal maps worth to play in some way. Give them a reason to kill every enemy on the map or hunt down every little box.

Don't nerf speed or stamina for that because it will just make those maps more and more worthless.

It's just that people can't deal with the fact that they finally have to put on different mods. It's really not that hard when more and more hybrids mods are coming (which save a lot of space) And more mod slots are probably coming as well.

[fatpig84]

It did not slow down the rushers.

It slowed down people who did not had max stamina/sprint mods or requisite gear (like the S2 Rhino helm etc).

 

To prove a point i rushed a boss and 2 to 3 team mates were so swarmed with enemies that a few of them died.

Yes it was $&*^ish of me to do so.

 

But yes it only widen the gulf between players like me and casuals. Previously people could at least keep up with my loki (IE within same room or within 2 rooms away) that is decking stamina mods with wave rushing or creative slide flipping or even wall flying.

 

After the "fix", it became "if you don't have the mods" haha you got no chance in hell to catch up.

Worse of all, the fix encourage the game to remain more defense frame focused.

 

That is bad.

Edited September 15, 2013 by fatpig84

[Othergrunty]

Innovation through change good and fine, but forcing the game into a crawl by making us having to stop for several seconds ever few 20 meters is not the way to go to "improve the game.

 

 

It's just that people can't deal with the fact that they finally have to put on different mods. It's really not that hard when more and more hybrids mods are coming (which save a lot of space) And more mod slots are probably coming as well.

 

Excuse me but i think you overlook one important fact here.

 

You can argue all day long that the stamina change was good because it would force players to slap in a Quick Rest or Marathon for a change so that they could get a resemblance of the old sprint system back.

However the flaw in that logic is that you only look at veteran players who have these two mods maxed out to overcome the new obstacle.

 

You completely ignore the problems for NEW players. New players don't automatically have these two mods. New players don't have the credits and fusion cores to ramp these two mods up to max level as soon as they get them. New players don't have their favorit Warframes upgraded so they have the spare mod points to install them together with health, shield, sprint and othe boost mods. New players don't have the patience to stop every few seconds or accept that they can't reach the enemy with their melee weapons because they run out of stamina halfway towards them.

 

You display an elitist attitude towards a change in the game, ignoring those who are still beginning or those still to come. Which are very important people for the game because they are those who keep spreading mouth propaganda for the game and are potential platinum buyers.

 

Do you really think they would be more or less eager to continue playing the game when their first experience includes having to crawl down to a walking speed every few seconds and look at their stamina bar to fill up again?

Maybe even with some high level player rushing past them and telling them to "get some Quick Rest you noob!"?

 

The new stamina system was hitting these kind of players the hardest because they don't have the luxury of fully leveled mods to balance out a change done to the game with a progamming sledge hammer.

 

Finaly remember that everyone who would play the PS4 and X-BOne verversion of the game would start from scratch. So put this ruined experience of potentialy hundred thousands of new players.

 

The new Stamina system HAD to go, had to be changed back, not for rushers, not for veterans but alone for the new players.

 

I'm interested in what they might now plan to make stamina more important, but gimping the sprint system was the completely wrong direction and they got the verbal backhand for that.

[Shifty_Shuffler]

The system wasn't changed back. It's somewhere between the new and the old.

[MDRLOz]

Aure7 I just wanted to post to say you are not alone. I was going to make a similar thread to this shortly, and to see someone looked at this as I did is great.

The thing that is most shocking about this is the speed of the change back. We did not even get a day of testing on the new system.

I want to post more but on a train ATM. However don't think your alone Aure7! Fight on for DE to make mod choice important.

[X3Evanescence]

Well, it did help. Much more acceptable as compared to the recent horrible recharge rates.

We can live with this change... I think.

[MDG3ist]

If yes then I am probably one of the very few to be mad. New stamina mods look very exciting and they all were finally given a chance to be useful.

Such as http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Flux or http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Wind but of course people cried oceans of tears, whined the S#&$ out of the forums instead of trying to adjust, let game evolve and wait for upcoming changes, such as additional mod slots for agility mods only or something like that. I finally felt like the same repetitive gameplay we have now might finally have been given some depth with the new stamina and the updates were heading to a right direction, but endless community of rushers just wash good ideas away.

 

You are not alone... I really respect DE for taking so much of the community feedback on board but sometimes I think they should just stand firm and force players to break the mould once in a while.  People cry there's no build diversity and all warframes are the same, yet cry harder when forced to actually make some tough choices about loadout and what they can realistically expect each frame to do.  Mobocracy won the day on this one, unfortunately...

[ComCray]

The point is, if they indeed nerfed the stamina to force rushers to cool down, they have solved absolutely NOTHING. The relative speed difference will STILL exist and Volt will STILL run circles around Rhino.

That is what is wrong with this "solution". It solves NOTHING.

Oh, and another thing: you don't call people who give feedback on a beta product "whiners". Disgruntled guinea pigs maybe, but not whiners. Whining is when you complain about people giving feedback on a beta product when asked for giving feedback. (<- oh, the irony of this statement...)

Edited September 15, 2013 by ComCray

[Hazadin]

If yes then I am probably one of the very few to be mad. New stamina mods look very exciting and they all were finally given a chance to be useful.

Such as http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_Flux or http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Wind but of course people cried oceans of tears, whined the S#&$ out of the forums instead of trying to adjust, let game evolve and wait for upcoming changes, such as additional mod slots for agility mods only or something like that. I finally felt like the same repetitive gameplay we have now might finally have been given some depth with the new stamina and the updates were heading to a right direction, but endless community of rushers just wash good ideas away.

You have minimal supporters slowpoke...

*slow clap*........

[fatpig84]

The system wasn't changed back. It's somewhere between the new and the old.

 

Well it isn't as bad as the Day 1 U10 speed fix, at least we don't see massive walls of QQ.

[AarkAngel]

If by "back to the way it was" you mean completely overpowered and exploitable so you have infinite sprint which enables rushers and people to "parkour or no life" then yes. it is.

 

IMO, Stamina was far better off with the limitations it had after U10 went live.

 

The only reason so many people complained was because they either were horrible at playing their frame or they were mad because they couldn't god-mode through levels anymore.

[Destro6677]

Infinite stamina parkour was practically the only reason to use parkour over straight running,

 

If we were forced to slap every stamina mod on our frames, then where the hell would we get slots to min/max our builds and power?

 

At higher levels, we'd be forced to either rush or completely slow down. 

 

Slowing down completely is not a satisfying option when dealing with level 60+ enemies, especially if you want to run a melee-focused build.

 

It also made a lot of full power builds unobtainable, such as Trinity's. Reach, continuity, flow etc.

 

Why should I be forced to step away from using the most powerful combination of end-game mods in order to keep her survivability up, and then not have enough speed to dodge around corners to avoid Grineer rockets?

 

Just accept it, life without speed will never be as good as life with speed. 

 

Keeping stamina the way it was would only widen the gap between rushers and non-rushers, dividing the community and discouraging PUGs further.

[Ghobe]

The update 10 version was almost fine. The only thing they needed to do was change it so that slow frames had higher stamina while fast frames had higher regen. Fast frame users weren't complaining at all, yet the people that were complaining used slow frames and talked about how it was "wrong" that they couldn't go fast. Which just blows my mind. "I picked slow frame Y I NO GO FAST!? UNBALANCED!" And I loved the complaints "the stamina mods shouldn't be mandatory"....they weren't, they were only mandatory if you wanted that much stamina and regen to which every time I suggested that I got met with backlash. "ERMAGERD! I CAN ONLY FULL SPRINT FOR 8 SECONDS! THAT'S AT MOST 2 ROOMS!" Which I also didn't understand...why are you traversing two rooms in a single sprint? Because you're rushing. To which they would say NUH UNH, but the reality is that they were, because in normal play, once you find enemies, you will continue to find them in every single room thereafter(excluding exterminate).

 

Sigh...these complainers are the same people that would support a change like making Rhino Stomp a passive that goes off every time he takes a step, except it has no animation. You just get to run around dealing 1k damage with every step and knocking all enemies up and freezing them in place for 5 seconds! Uses no energy!

 

I've never understood how people can enjoy being completely overpowered...

[fatpig84]

The "new" Stamina isn't as good as U8 or U9 stamina (slightly less) but it was much more accepting because after the first Live U10 fiasco, anything that improves the situation is better.

 

And I chose to be fast, I enjoyed slapping 3 speed mods on Loki and just leaving people to the dust back in U8 days. This came at the cost of my energy efficiency and my skill range. But I loved it.

 

Why should I be impacted so greatly that 3 mods in U10 are required to even barely match 2 mods in U9 (actually worse too)?

Edited September 16, 2013 by fatpig84