How am I supposed to play according to DE?

[AzureScion]

11 hours ago, Lucian_Adrion said:

My apologies. I am just sick and tired of seeing people complain. Sure the game has issues but most people are not complaining about the important things to actually fix the game. You know like how no one uses conclave or the bugs and crashes. It was out of line to act so condescending but from my perspective. These small thing will not help the games larger issues especially when there are solutions in place to fix it already.

I see your point, and to be completely fair I do agree with you that some people are complaining too much regarding in game mechanics. Some complain about how the game isn't challenging enough - others the other way around. Honestly it's kind of irritating at this point.

 

But I actually would like to see what would happen if warframe abilities work on bosses. I'd love to see Eidolons getting mauled to death by Peacemaker or Saryn's spores. Haha.

Although if I were to add something about warframe abilities, I'd like to see Mesa's peacekeeper being able to shoot down nully bubbles.

[Helios_91]

9 hours ago, Test-995 said:

Well, melee weapons are always meta and cheesy, cuz co/br/ms.

I use a TIPEDO ;0;, and if melee weapons arent cheesy unless you decide to be an Apache attack helicopter with Max range.  But even then, that means you can't complain about not being able to cheese ;_;. Say cheese....I like cheese.

[Scissorsmith]

On 2019-03-18 at 2:36 PM, Lucian_Adrion said:

Who says you can not use your frame. You are not think or trying hard enough. How can you set here and call yourself "creative" if you have not found away to use your frame in the boss fight? Huh? Step back and analyze the boss fight. Lets do the exploiter since that the one you guys are bad at. You need 3 things. Survivability, wave clear/cc, and heavy adaptive damage. Survivability: Chroma, Inaros, Nezha, Oberon, Trinity, Nekros, Harrow, Revenant, Mesa, Nidus, Rhino, heck even Nyx and Zephyr. Wave clear/CC: Nezha, Nyx, Zeohyr, Volt, Oberon, Nidus, Titania, Hydroid, Nekros, Mag, Rhino. Adaptive damage comes from your guns but:Mirage, Chroma, Harrow. Can augment. Now am I saying all these frames are good in this fight. No of course not, but they can all work. You need to think. Play to your strengths and use that as your stepping stone. If I can make Titania Eidolon/Orb viable and Limbo and Ivars and Oberon and Gosh darn Octavia. You can too.

 

So, ignoring you're condescending tone, which is often an indication of weak argument and thus an attempt to appeal to emotion, I'll try to explain.

First, we're not bad a exploiter orb, I solo'ed it with Chroma, no problem, just took some time. It's not about it being hard, it's about there being only one way to do it with any efficiency, and thus, not-intersting after a few times. You can use other frames that aren't tanks, sure, but their abilities do not have any useful effects for the fight, and the fight will be the same as with tanky frames, just harder. As a comparison, I've done tridolons close to a hundred times.

Second, what you're basically trying to sell me with creativity is that having less makes you more creative. Why not remove all the frames then, and leave only 1 with no abilities? By your logic, that should force people to be even more creative as they try to overcome challenges with less. But it makes the game not interesting. It's like saying having only red color makes you more creative when painting. Not really, maybe I want to paint a colorful forest, having more color than just red means more options, means more potential creativity. I could probably do it with just red, I'd just prefer not to. Cause it's boring. You can only use shapes to create the depiction, as opposed to having both shapes and colors.

Also, I don't think you understand how some of the frames you mentioned simply don't work. You list Mesa as tank, but her shatter shield simply does not work in this fight. The orb shots bypass it (inconsistency like that makes me pretty annoyed too). The only CC that works is that which draws aggro (so Nyx/Octavia, have not tried Rhino/Nezha personally, but from what I've heard their CC should not work? If they do, might try them to mix things up at least. Even if they do, that's even more inconsistency, because then why does Khora/Limbo/etc. CC not work?). The dps you list are all buffs, which all work similar and don't do much for creativity. You still do the same thing, just faster even with a bad weapon. Same with tanks, sure, quite a few of them, I personally prefer Wukong and have been playing  him mostly since Valkyr Hysteria nerf. But the thing is, all the tanks in this fight play the same way. You don't have the choice "I'll dps things before I die" high-risk high-reward playstyle for example. You don't have creative uses of Limbo or other frames. You are forced to just chuk the canisters, shoot the raknoids. That's the only way to do it. Best thing I've seen from all this was Titania, who, it turns out, is a pretty decent all around frame for this fight.

EDIT: Just thought about something. Compare it to a simple capture mission. All the frames are useful here. You can sneak through with stealth, just nabbing the target. You can take a tank, and run through, attacking the target, ignoring everything else. You can take a dps, and kill everything including the target. You can take Limbo and do Limbo things. You can take Volt, and get through it faster than anything can shoot you. All the frames are useful in their own ways. Even if Volt is best/meta. 

EDIT2: Just checked, apparently there's a list on wiki what they're immune to now. It's worse than I initially thought. None of your listed CC frames work for example. Only Frost's 1 (the thing no one almost ever uses cause it's single target) and Octavia do. By the way, Harrow and Nekros don't work as tanks. Nekros can't raise their corpses which he needs for tanking, Harrow's 1 doesn't work, and he's pretty bad at tanking anyway. Nidus does not work either, they're literally immune to all 4 of his skills (almost as bad as Limbo). He has no skills that fight. Nyx's 4 works, but not great for tanking in this case (though for some missions I know there's a cool niche build).

Edited March 19, 2019 by Scissorsmith

[SeekerErebus]

I get the impression the devs never fully planned for WF to become a horde-shooter, or for players to fully embrace min-maxed builds. I mean, "meta" builds are always going to be a thing, especially since the faster you can run a mission you'll probably have to run 100+ times, the better. So why does it feel DE doesn't test their new frames and modes with the meta in mind? Every devstream clip I've seen of them showing off a new weapon or frame in combat, I'm certain I can put together a better mod loadout then they're using without even thinking about it. How are we supposed to get good balancing when you're not balancing around the strongest possible configurations, DE?

[TioMegaManX]

2 hours ago, SeekerErebus said:

I get the impression the devs never fully planned for WF to become a horde-shooter, or for players to fully embrace min-maxed builds. I mean, "meta" builds are always going to be a thing, especially since the faster you can run a mission you'll probably have to run 100+ times, the better. So why does it feel DE doesn't test their new frames and modes with the meta in mind? Every devstream clip I've seen of them showing off a new weapon or frame in combat, I'm certain I can put together a better mod loadout then they're using without even thinking about it. How are we supposed to get good balancing when you're not balancing around the strongest possible configurations, DE?

That's the thing, and honestly it wouldn't be bad if we knew their thought process a little better.

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

Don’t try to cheese too hard abusing mechanics in a way that promotes negative methods is probably a no no

If the means don’t justify the ends it probably isn’t ok

[TioMegaManX]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BloodyXSavageX said:

Don’t try to cheese too hard abusing mechanics in a way that promotes negative methods is probably a no no

If the means don’t justify the ends it probably isn’t ok

The issue comes from knowing how much is too much, examples have been mentioned, people will always look for the most efficient way but sometimes it enrages the developers, meanwhile there are others available that are barely touched like spin2win, I don't really care much for that one but I find it boring and it certainly needs a macro or fast typing, the thing is, if DE wants people to stop doing stuff like this they shouldn't limit player options, what constitutes a negative method? was Shattering Impact a negative method on Profit Taker? why?

Edited March 19, 2019 by VanFanel1980mx

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

DE’s rational im assuming is Profit taking should only be hurt by archguns so not using an archhun on profit taker is unintended mechanic that goes against gameplay and lore.

As for me I’m on the fence with the issue

Maybe Spin attacks should have a slight status neg idk it’s not a big problem for me.

[TioMegaManX]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)BloodyXSavageX said:

DE’s rational im assuming is Profit taking should only be hurt by archguns so not using an archhun on profit taker is unintended mechanic that goes against gameplay and lore.

As for me I’m on the fence with the issue

Maybe Spin attacks should have a slight status neg idk it’s not a big problem for me.

They can still be only damaged by archguns, Shattering Impact only reduces armor, it happens with the Eidolons too, the spin case is simple, melee damage is minimal on standard attacks but insane with maneuvers like spinning so a guaranteed critical hit while spinning would do a lot more damage, the funny thing is how they will cripple combos on melee 3.0 by only making the combo counter effective on heavy attacks and then reset, so they don't want you to kill with faster melee attacks.

Edited March 19, 2019 by VanFanel1980mx

[(XBOX)IIIIRED1IIII]

On 2019-03-18 at 7:29 AM, (XB1)Damokles1818 said:

Except for the way DE nerfs ever single warframe power a certain person claims to be "broken" or "cheap" to the point that you're down to a meager 30 energy pool on every amp you own

Ya the engergy drops and what you start with do suk

[Hamstertron]

On 2019-03-18 at 12:19 AM, VanFanel1980mx said:

Mag on certain missions, specially defense on Ceres, but there are a ton of frames that can do the trick, Zephyr, Vauban, Valkyr, etc., I heard back when there were raids or some other very high level missions some teams had Mag to do the same and bypass the whole highly armored enemy problem, and then a developer got upset and did some changes because "they weren't playing the way it was meant to be" which only cemented the "Mag is trash tier" meme.

They were pulling Sargas Ruk into a pit to instakill him, hence bosses became immune to some abilities or component of abilities (I think pull still damages some bosses but won't drag them towards you) and enemies reset like warframes when dropped in pits.

They have a publicly stated policy of changing things which "trivialise the content".

Yeah, this doesn't explain Octavia. Just roll with it. (Pun intended)

Edited March 20, 2019 by Hamstertron
Spelling

[TioMegaManX]

42 minutes ago, Hamstertron said:

They were pulling Sargas Ruk into a pit to instakill him, hence bosses became immune to some abilities or component of abilities (I think pull still damages some bosses but won't drag them towards you) and enemies reset like warframes when dropped in pits.

They have a publicly stated policy of changing things which "trivialise the content".

Yeah, this doesn't explain Octavia. Just roll with it. (Pun intended)

That's kind of overkill, I understand the bosses but why the enemies? trivialize the content? I basically trivialize EO with Zephyr, will boss attacks pierce through Turbulence next just because I trivialize the fight?

[R353ARCH]

Adjust / adapt.

"How am I supposed to run my PLANTATION when the government is taking away all my SLAVES!?"

So some things historically were being relied on, the some things were later discovered to be wrong and not a good direction for the future, and in order to have a brighter future, we adapt.