A nitpicky in depth ramble about Hyldrin

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

So the console build is in certification which means I feel like I can finally drop my thoughts about the newest frame as she's unlikely to change in any significant way anytime soon.  Obligatory statement that i've not actually played her yet, my opinion comes from watching various gameplay footage of her and reading up on everything about her.  It's entirely possible I don't understand something or miss something.  But regardless I still feel like i'm well informed enough to post my thoughts.

The good/what I like about her:

I figured i'd better do this first because I don't want people thinking that I hate her or think she's a bad frame.  There is just a lot I find confusing about her design.  Anyway, I LOVE Hyldrin for two main reasons.  She's a support that brings something unique to the table letting her compliment other supports rather than fighting over who's help is active more.  And she completely ignores my two biggest annoyances with the games combat.  Leeches and nullifiers.  I also am glad that the main thing about her, (that being a tank that survives on shields) actually ended up working out without the need for arcanes.  Which was one of my primary concerns when seeing early gameplay.

 

Why can't you be normal?:

So here is where things get weird for me.  She's basically Baruuk.  Here me out.  She's a tank.  Like Baruuk.  She is all about cc.  Like Baruuk.  Both help their team survive at a cost to their own survival.  Baruuk with his desolate hands.  Hyldrin with haven.  And both have an exalted weapon.  They don't play the same way but I thought it was funny how much she reminded me of him.  But there is more weird.  Hyldrin is "bad" at low level and amazing at high level.  This due to how her shield pillage works.  She also is bad against the infested when most frames do well against the infested.  Again because shield pillage.  Her haven ability doesn't benefit her at all and linking to enemies feels like an excuse to give her allies her passive.  Because nothing is gained from doing this beyond forgettable damage.

 

So so clunky:

So here we get into every little issue I have with her.  Haven does nothing for her.  Linking to enemies does nothing substantial. You incur movement penalties if you don't fire her balfire weapon properly.  Why make her have a dinky wrist pistol as an exalted instead of her amazing arch gun?  Why charge her shot at all?  DE again showing charge abilities being bad.  The radius of her balfire explosion radius is laughable.  Shield pillage works on a 1:1 scale making her awkward at low content and untouchable at high content.  Infested who primarily kill through toxin procs are hyper effective against a frame that has two seperate mechanics that are meant to counter toxin/slash procs.  Your movement is slow and inconsistent while hovering.  Enemies will randomly drop out of the effect from her 4 even if their in range.  Just like Bastille.  Forced to use her balefire.  The second balfire does absolutely nothing for her.  Doesn't automatically pull out her balefire when casting her 4.  can't use her shield pillage in her 4.  Avatior works on this glorified jetpack but not on an actual flying frame Titania.  Passive is inconsistent because shield pillage is inconsistent.

 

Proposed fixes:

~Balfire suffers no movement issues when being used.

~Balfire explosion radius is increased when charged.

~Shield pillage now gives shields back multiplicitively.

~Shield pillage always gives a percent of shields back regardless of enemies current defenses (or lack of.)

~Fix her flight bugs when going over holes.

~Casting Aegis storm also summons her balfire.

~Fire rate is increased on balfire when in her 4 and charging your shot charges both balfire guns.

~Can cast shield pillage in her 4.

~Fix bugs with enemies not staying cced in her 4.

~As long as Hyldrin is linked to enemies with haven equipped her shields are continually recharging.

 

Closing thoughts:

My feelings for Hyldrin are overall mixed.  There are some good things about her that make me want to use her every now and then.  She seems like that perfect low effort support for pub games.  Games where people won't be self sustaining through clever loadout combinations and operator usage.  Games where people don't bring a way to keep their energy topped up.  She can stay consistent with her support even when others might struggle due to leeches.  But I can't shake something about her.  At the end of it she's just a tank with some minor cc and support.  At this stage in Warframe's life being able to survive is basically a given.  Being able to tank insane things is no longer a sought after trait.  CC is also less and less important because we're absurdly powerful and only continue to get stronger.

It's even more weird when you realize DE is fully aware that frames that are only good at one thing/mainly cc based are not in a great place right now.  It's so weird that the last 4 frames (hyldrin included) are very strong at surviving.  But not much else.  Or even worse champion cc.  Revenant has mesmerskin and some soft cc.  Damage is forgetable.  Garuda has a shield and strong health pillars.  But her damage setup is really impractical to use on a frequent basis.  Baruuk can roll around in tons of damage reduction.  Lull and his 4 are cc machines.  Poor damage.  and hyldrin.  Very survivable.  Has cc.  but has a bland exalted weapon that doesn't do anything but damage.  IMO Garuda is the only one of the 4 that is even notable due to being able to give slash procs to her whole team.

I wanted to write this as sort of my farewell to Warframe.  I haven't been happy with how they've been handling consoles since the switch version dropped and it seems like it won't be getting better anytime soon.  I haven't been happy with most Warframes they've released/reworked lately.  Nyx/titania reworks were slaps to the face.  Baruuk has barely received attention since he was dropped.  They keep trying to make Revenant appealing but they don't address his issues.  And they're making him worse with the newest change.  Making controlling/using his pillars less doable.  Garuda is the only frame of recent that I actually enjoy and I barely have touched her after I formaed her up.  It seems like DE is more running on cool ideas rather than roles in a team.  If anything this just further highlights the core issues of warframes combat/mission structure.  We all know that once you hit end game you play with others for better grinding.  Not because doing so creates fun or interesting play with other frames.  There was a time when mass slaughtering was fun.  Now it's not enough for me.  And DE doesn't show any sign of changing this.

So for now Warframe is going on the back burner for me.  Maybe if Wisp and the next few frame reworks turn out to be great I might come back.  Nightwave is amazing and I love it.  I am 100% on board with the new direction of melee.  But there is still so much quality of life things that need addressing.  And at least at this current time I can't be bothered to tollerate it.  So I appreciate y'all who come interact with me.  Even if you only read my stuff I still appreciate it.  I'll still probably come around here just to see what's going on.  But I won't be nearly as active as I used to be.  Thanks for reading this long post.  And thanks for being an amazing community.  I hope to be back again sometime.

[Guest]

100% agree with OP.

I think that the latest warfames released (revenant, garuda, baruuk anda hildryn) are not bad overall, they just can't find a spot in the game. 

DE has the potential to make better reworks/frames. Look at Nezha, he went from bottom to top tier in his last rework.

It seems that sometimes they are afraid to create powercreep, so they establish some illogical restrictions, like Nyx's physics bolts only affecting 6 enemies at a time.

But still, I am positive about Wisp and also like the direction they are taking with the game. DE makes many mistakes, but overall I think they are taking steps in the right direction.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

3 hours ago, Agropeu said:

100% agree with OP.

I think that the latest warfames released (revenant, garuda, baruuk anda hildryn) are not bad overall, they just can't find a spot in the game. 

DE has the potential to make better reworks/frames. Look at Nezha, he went from bottom to top tier in his last rework.

It seems that sometimes they are afraid to create powercreep, so they establish some illogical restrictions, like Nyx's physics bolts only affecting 6 enemies at a time.

But still, I am positive about Wisp and also like the direction they are taking with the game. DE makes many mistakes, but overall I think they are taking steps in the right direction.

TBH all of the ones you listed feel like cool concepts ripped from the community rather than a quality piece of work that is done by a company with a history of designing great things.  Garuda is the only one to me that while it does this actually comes across as acceptable for gameplay.  I'm not miffed that she doesn't really have a role and she's mainly just a for fun frame.  And that's because they executed her so well.  The rest don't even get close to the mark.

The person who did the Nezha rework actually understands the game on a level that the rest of the devs do not.  That and he's not contractually obligated to design new frames or reworks as a full time job.  So he can let inspiration direct him instead of a timeline.  Versus Revenant and both the nyx/titania reworks being spear headed by Megan which afaik is only a community manager and not a developer of any kind.  Really goes to show you what a little bit of difference can produce quality wise.

Wisp visually looks solid.  But we've no ideas on her abilities yet beyond place holder names and a potential UI specific thing for her.  So it's hard for me to be positive.  But even if she ends up being the best thing since Nidus it still wouldn't be enough to alleviate my general fatigue with the game.  I hope no one is reading my post and thinking i'm dogging on the devs or thinking the game is garbage.  I've just played far too much.  I'm spent.  And little things are getting to me.  So I want to step away for awhile and hopefully come back to a much cleaner experience.

[Chappie]

8 hours ago, Agropeu said:

Look at Nezha, he went from bottom to top tier in his last rework.

I think you are being to aggressive.   Nezha was never bottom tier.    However, she was a "discount rhino with a gimmick" before she got a playstyle that was unique.   I used her more than rhino pre-rework because I loved the slide mechanic and her 1.   

I feel that Hildryn is the same way.   Hildryn's kit has potential....but with TNW and RJ as high priorities, I'm not sure Hildy is going to get any real love any time soon.  😞  I can put my thumb on what bugs me about hildy but I'm not sure my viewpoint alone is the needed change.  So keep the ideas flowing.

 

[S0V3REiGN]

To nitpick Nezha is a “he”

 

with said i like Hildryn a lot but I feel like she lacks in a very important category, synergy. Most of it was covered by the OP so I am not going to repeat it. It think DE took the wrong approach in designing her; it’s clear that they wanted to make a mainly shielded-tank Warframe work and they’ve achieved that but it came at the cost of abilities that don’t work with each other. I think the ultimate fear was that they didn’t want to make her overpowered or unkillable and she feels awkward to use at times, animations that constantly interrupt gameplay and abilities that feel half useful.