Alert Missions Drove Me Away From This Game, Sorry De.

[Cavman]

So, half a month back I made a thread talking about catalysts/reactors, and it turned into the biggest thread in Gameplay Feedback, for good reason. I'm sure I don't need to talk any more about this system. Most of you here have already read many opinions on it and assuredly have some of your own. Either way, here is the thread, it got locked not too long ago:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/7715-orokin-catalystsreactors-need-to-change-a-letter-to-the-game-devs/#entry59797

Basically, I posted this around the time when it was most relevant to my situation. I was hitting a wall. I had a few weapons already waiting to be supercharged, but no way to do it save paying for it. As much as I loved the gameplay, I lost my desire to log in. There was no reward for it anymore. I don't need weapon XP if I can't use the levels. I can't get new weapons without selling the ones I worked hard for, and the best gameplay in the world couldn't distract me from the sneaking suspicion that every single Corpus ship I raided looked exactly the same :P

So like I said, I just lost the desire to log in. One day, I decided to check out Path of Exile, as I've heard people on these forums talking about how great it was. It's not the most polished game out there, but it damn sure is fun. I honestly completely forgot about this game until I saw a facebook post today, advertising for the new Braton model. I logged in just to trade it for my 21 non-supercharged Braton, and logged off.

Ramblings aside, I came here for no reason other than courtesy to DE. You guys made a great game. I'm not here to ask you for changes anymore, just to let you know why this player has lost interest in your game. I wanted to play the game at one point, but "playing the game" was just logging in and alt-tabbing until I heard an alert mission pop up. If you guys at DE are wondering why some players decide to stop playing, you might need to seriously look to your alert mission design. I'm not saying it will kill your game completely, but it has killed it for me (and probably many others).

Adieu, fellow Tenno

[Cawkslapjones]

Sorry to see you go. I don't think they will notice a decline in players any time soon. The game is going into an open beta test today. Unfortunately, by the time the system is fixed for real, they will probably be in true open beta with again, another influx of players. It's a shame that it went untouched for so long.

Catalysts and Reactors are no longer a once a week thing, but that doesn't mean that the system is fine. It's still a matter of being in the right place, at the right time. I'm desperately hoping they listened to my suggestion to for giving Alerts a form of currency ONLY available from Alerts that would allow you to eventually purchase specific items that you otherwise can't get without waiting for a "?" and then for it to be the one you need. I understand that they need to make money, but if things continue as they are, there will be those who weren't around to get what they needed to progress. It's not very casual friendly, and casuals are what most games these days thrive from.

I think we could all agree that WoW would never have been the behemoth that it was (is still, I guess) if it had catered only to the interests of the hardcore with lots of free time, or those willing to drop 25 dollars for a single in game item. Regardless, the days of pay-to-play (or pay to win for that matter) are at an end. Sad to see you go, and if you want to catch me in PoE, I'm Cawkslapjones there too. I don't play it so often (as that game has lots of work to do as well, I really hate the no real currency system) but if you do see me on, we can go clear some quests.

Good luck in the future.

[Mak_Gohae]

The XP and higher levels gives you the ability to put higher level mods.

[Cawkslapjones]

The XP and higher levels gives you the ability to put higher level mods.

Sure. And how many mods can you fit without supercharging? Let's not even mention the passive bonuses. A non charged frame simply can't keep up with one that is. You're softer, have less energy, fewer mods to cram in, and weaker powers. It's just a fact, those who have them trounce those who don't. Take Trinity for example, who has only 2 mod slots without supercharging...

[Mak_Gohae]

Sure. And how many mods can you fit without supercharging? Let's not even mention the passive bonuses. A non charged frame simply can't keep up with one that is. You're softer, have less energy, fewer mods to cram in, and weaker powers. It's just a fact, those who have them trounce those who don't. Take Trinity for example, who has only 2 mod slots without supercharging...

This is true but what's your point?

Are you saying you are jealous because some one has a higher dmg percentage at the mission score page?

[Cawkslapjones]

This is true but what's your point?

Are you saying you are jealous because some one has a higher dmg percentage at the mission score page?

You're joking, right? I'm saying that some harder content isn't even feesible by people who aren't supercharged because they're just being carried, and some don't have wide shoulders. Look at the boss of Eris. His scream can often wipe out any non supercharged frame. If the first scream doesn't get you, the second will.

I don't give 2 S#&$s out of a rats &#! what my damage is at the end of the mission. What I do care about is not being a burden to the team, and anyone who feels the same way knows without a reactor, that's how it's going to be.

[Cakes]

I've only tinkered around with supercharged Prime and Trinity, the rest are still waiting for their potatos. The difference between the uncharged and supercharged frame is pretty steep, especially later on when you've got a ton of double mods to throw on.

Haven't supercharged any weapons yet, so can't say how much of a performance boost that particular potato makes.

The alert mission design is fine. Random stuff happening whenever, wherever. Throws in some variety to an otherwise static map. The reward design needs some work.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Cakes

[Gaiters]

A F2P frame is just that, a F2p frame.

DE does not make you run high level content. There are plenty of missions that are level 15-17 perfect for a f2p frame. I assume you will be able to aquire at least one catalyst for your favourite warframe in a very short time, which will allow you to do higher level content, farm new warframes, and enjoy the game at it's fullest.

Until then, enjoy your f2p experience at level 15, which at the moment is much like level 30.

[sambarpowder]

They're still working on them, it appears the system is a skeleton of what it would be in the future. It better be, that's the only thing keeping me around.

[Cawkslapjones]

Until then, enjoy your f2p experience at level 15, which at the moment is much like level 30.

No, it's not. Before I finally got a reactor, playing with my friends who did have their frames supercharged, I was dead constantly in situations that they could just easily stand and tank on their shields. And how viable is a full melee spec on a basic frame? Again, Trinity's only got 2 slots, can she even survive if she drops in 2 70% melee damage mods in place of tanking it up? But supercharge her and she can, no problem.

[Mak_Gohae]

No, it's not. Before I finally got a reactor, playing with my friends who did have their frames supercharged, I was dead constantly in situations that they could just easily stand and tank on their shields. And how viable is a full melee spec on a basic frame? Again, Trinity's only got 2 slots, can she even survive if she drops in 2 70% melee damage mods in place of tanking it up? But supercharge her and she can, no problem.

Know your limits with what you have, if you cant make something work try something else.

Turn her into a sniper so you star in a safe spot in the back.

[Ryme]

FYI, DE is not happy with the current state of the alerts system either. Finding a better way to implement them is on the "to do" list.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Ryme

[Sedya]

I have to admit, the Alerts are quite pointless when it's just offering credits, I find myself just skipping them since 1,100 credits isn't worth the time waste when I can do a higher levelled mission and aquire more from the mod drops.

[Tykero]

Their entire "Free to Play" model is garbage.

Speaking of Path of Exile, they have an actual Free to Play setup. DE should take some notes.

I was a huge fan of this game until it became clear to me that DE does not seem to understand that "pay to not grind" is not a sound business model.

It detracts from this game's available content for paying players, so they don't stick around as long (aside from exploiting the "sunk costs" psychological weakness many people possess -- do you really want people to play your game out of a feeling of obligation? "Oh I've spent this much money on the game, I have to get some fun out of it somewhere").

It detracts from the game's available content for non-paying players, so they don't stick around as long either. (Hrm, I can't get new weapons or warframes, one of the main driving points of playing the game, without completely losing my old ones. I can't use my current ones to their full potential without getting lucky with an alert and waiting a goddamn day after I got done grinding out the materials for it to craft. I think I'll just play something else.)

And then both camps stop logging in. They don't recommend the game to their friends. Many people see the model for what it is in the first place and just don't ever get invested in the game at all. I have seen two of my close friends make this decision. Perhaps they've got less confidence than I do in game developers.

In any case, this game is on a one-way track to obscurity. DE may make some money off of it, and I honestly hope they do, because they seem like pretty nice people, and I wouldn't wish bankruptcy on them simply because I'm displeased with their direction in a video game. It will not be a success like this, though. It will not be popular. It will not be something of which the average internet denizen is even aware.

[UkyoSonoda]

Sure. And how many mods can you fit without supercharging? Let's not even mention the passive bonuses. A non charged frame simply can't keep up with one that is. You're softer, have less energy, fewer mods to cram in, and weaker powers. It's just a fact, those who have them trounce those who don't. Take Trinity for example, who has only 2 mod slots without supercharging...

I have a non supercharged trinity. I recall it having atleast 4 available mod slots.

Most long weapons only gain 2 mod slots supercharging

Most pistols only gain 1

.

[Cawkslapjones]

Know your limits with what you have, if you cant make something work try something else.

Turn her into a sniper so you star in a safe spot in the back.

How's that work against Infested?

[Gaiters]

No, it's not. Before I finally got a reactor, playing with my friends who did have their frames supercharged, I was dead constantly in situations that they could just easily stand and tank on their shields. And how viable is a full melee spec on a basic frame? Again, Trinity's only got 2 slots, can she even survive if she drops in 2 70% melee damage mods in place of tanking it up? But supercharge her and she can, no problem.

I'm not really concerned with your personal frame's viability. Full melee spec might be a bad idea for a basic frame yes, but so is equipping a bunch of sprint mods. That's your problem, not DE's.

Trinity is currently the least favorite frame in the game, and I think that frame will be getting work.

Again, your friends were the right level for the content you were participating in on your weaker frame. Try somthing easier if you die all the time. Otherwise, just keep calm and carry on.

Edited February 16, 2013 by ZEDD

[Mak_Gohae]

How's that work against Infested?

You load up enemy radar and you look at it once in a while so they dont surprise you from behind.

[[DE]Rebecca]

The OP's honesty is much appreciated - we are certainly working to improve our system - it'll just take a little time.

Thanks for the maturity in this discussion folks!

[MJ12]

The OP's honesty is much appreciated - we are certainly working to improve our system - it'll just take a little time.

Thanks for the maturity in this discussion folks!

I'm going to ask an important question: Will you create more incentives to play regular missions that aren't bosses? Say, by giving them a low percentage chance (5-10%?) of getting a '?' reward?

Because right now most MP games are just Bosses: The Farming.

[Mak_Gohae]

I'm going to ask an important question: Will you create more incentives to play regular missions that aren't bosses? Say, by giving them a low percentage chance (5-10%?) of getting a '?' reward?

Because right now most MP games are just Bosses: The Farming.

You mean after opening the whole map?

[AK47-2000]

Yea i feel you man.The game is geting shallow for me too.This whole reactor this is crazy becasue i can level a gun up in one 2 days to level 15 if i wanted too.The slots are a pain too.

[WildJuice]

I'm going to ask an important question: Will you create more incentives to play regular missions that aren't bosses? Say, by giving them a low percentage chance (5-10%?) of getting a '?' reward?

Because right now most MP games are just Bosses: The Farming.

They have too many missions that are the same. Only difference is mob level/type.

People want rewards. Fun is gone after the 1st time doing it.

current farm methods :

Defense : mods

Assassination : blueprints

I suggest making sabotage/deception missions have some material storage we could get, so it would be a viable alternative.

Capture/spy mission would give us more credits( like ~15k). Right now, Xini gives us higher than that by just selling mods, but it's harder, so it's a good compromise.

Make it so that every type of missions yield different rewards, or reward us competitively to other farm methods. Some missions are just straight out useless, except to progress through map.

OT: Bosses should have more droppable BPs, like when Hades Boss could drop dark sword and such. Make those unique BPs drop in lesser quantity.

Alert system would remain as is, not as a main course, but as an addition to the game, for lower level people to access OR just random luck missions. Right now, the problem is that alerts ? are central. We don't need to play the game for anything except the warframe and mats. And, we have no space for anything so it's all pointless.

[Cawkslapjones]

I'm not really concerned with your personal frame's viability. Full melee spec might be a bad idea for a basic frame yes, but so is equipping a bunch of sprint mods. That's your problem, not DE's.

And I'm not really concerned with your input, or opinion. This topic isn't about me in specific, nor is it even about the OP who now presumably has left the game.

People who bought the founders packages aren't running into the same walls that people who didn't are. SImply because something doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it's not a problem, and that there's no need for change. Understandably, DE needs to make money. I could start listing plenty of F2P games that have no content restrictions and just get by on cosmetics (which, with a game that looks this damn gorgeous, would be a highly viable option IMO) but I'm not really concerned with furthering this conversation. Good day.