Riding the Power Creep uphill

[taiiat]

21 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

You can't have everything better or more notable than average, that isn't how it works.

if everything is competing to be the same thing (like how everything is competing to be a Crit Slash Hybrid Weapon currently), absolutely. but that's just it, everything doesn't and shouldn't just be trying to compete at being the same thing.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

19 hours ago, Deadoon said:

You simply can't have everything shine. That implies balance, and if everything is balanced, nothing stands out. Thus it isn't shining. Also the more unique things, the more development time spent, and the more potential bug fixes needed to make stuff stable.

You are not one to talk about statistics, you went on a roundabout explaining it so badly you didn't even get anywhere. People spent extra long in void missions due to you could get many rewards for a single key. The nerfed life support drops to make it less viable to stay forever. You then needed a nekros, rather than just pure dps and CC. 20-40 minutes for survival wasn't unusual, heck it was considered common. Hour+ t4 runs were a bit more specialized, but doable with a proper comp. Relics made the shift between vaulting more smooth and farming specific items easier, but you lost the flood of items from the endless missions. This has nothing to do with statistics, it is simple reward cycles, you spent more time you got more rewards, people built comps around maximizing rewards from single key usages.

You are becoming completely incomprehensible at this point. The gist of what I got from that is that you don't like them changing what is already in place and want them to implement new mechanics constantly. But what is with this inane drivel about malefactors? Also most people which did raids did it solely for the rewards, do your raids, get your arcanes, arcanes are rare valuable trade assets. Many people wanted them reworked. The Jordas verdict in particular was especially disliked, but people did it anyway due to it being the only way to get the rewards.

 

D E still makes new weapons like the Battlecor, which makes sense. Nerfing a unique weapon for about a year to be unnerfed closer to it’s original version just slows down and I P S changes that slows down the game. What is incomprehensible is asking for more nerfs than more weapons like the Tonkor, Orvis, Dera, Ignis, Zaar, Opticor, Simulor, Zenith, Mutalist Quanta, Mitterrand, and such. If it wasn’t for positive feedback, then we wouldn’t have this much great content added to the game.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

oh. ok now i understand what this Thread is about.

so, there isn't enough useless Powercreep for you. everything is already infinite, what is infinite+1.

absolute nonsense. choice A not making choice B completely pointless to exist does not mean everything is bland.
that is completely misunderstanding what balance means. 

if things are balanced, everything stands out, because the choices do different things and are all useful, but for different purposes. rather than you simply pick __ because there's literally no reason not to (or a similar situation wich pick 1% of things because the other 99% have no purpose or use whatsoever).

 

- - - - - 

if one is ok with, and even desires, a situation where choices that they can make, aren't choices because whatever choice you made was already predetermined and you will never think twice about it because one or a small number of choices does everything you may want or need at once - if that's something that's "good", that's just pretty simple that you don't like having choices and don't like content. or in short, every Weapon is gonna be 'Mastery Fodder' if 1% of them do everything at once and therefore you always pick that because it's just better.
which can come full circle too, if everything is made into a Crit Slash and/or Hybrid Weapon (as the game has been moving towards recently), then choices also won't matter because literally everything will be the same.

Barton Prime and Burston Prime are good. The Soma, Bolton, and Latron Prime have their diversity in options. Giving a side grade to the Stradavar to keep it below the Tiberon Prime is where the line can also be seen. The Stradavar Prime could have gotten a special mechanic that the Pyrana Prime got; but certainly people wouldn’t respect that kind of creativity from the devs. Asking for high quality content to be trickled down is like asking a waiter to serve you a 1 dollar mc Donald’s burger instead of their 7 dollar pound burger with fresh vegetables that has the right seasonings and time cooked along with fries to dip in cheese fondue. “Forget everyone’s order; because everyone else has to eat welfare burgers with you otherwise you’ll slander, harass, AND take them to court in the name of social justice.” That is all that ever comes out of the opposition to making warframe stay awesome,

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

3 hours ago, taiiat said:

if everything is competing to be the same thing (like how everything is competing to be a Crit Slash Hybrid Weapon currently), absolutely. but that's just it, everything doesn't and shouldn't just be trying to compete at being the same thing.

Winner winner chicken dinner!

[Deadoon]

 

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

if everything is competing to be the same thing (like how everything is competing to be a Crit Slash Hybrid Weapon currently), absolutely. but that's just it, everything doesn't and shouldn't just be trying to compete at being the same thing.

Which is not what I said at all. You are twisting it in a way which is neither implied nor stated.

If you put two things on a teeter totter and they end up at equal levels, they are balanced. One is not better, one is not worse, neither stands out from the other. 

Edit: Since you two can't understand what balance is. Balance is when in the grand scheme of things, the pieces in question are just as effective as one another. That does not mean that they will perform the same in every situation. In some situations one will perform better, in others it will perform worse. Overall though they will be just as viable as one another.

When everything is equal, nothing stands out. Some things might not mesh with certain players, some things will just click. Some things will have a higher skill cap, some will cater to the lcd. There is a degree of balance as it is. You don't have things like the old tonkor, where it outperforms so much that it's most notable feature and reason for it's overperformance was removed. The tonkor's lack of self damage and it's high damage with criticals gave players a way to safely push farther into the game than any other weapon. Even the boltor and soma prime of the time couldn't compete, they were the meta rifles, but paled in comparison.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Deadoon

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

25 minutes ago, Deadoon said:

 

Which is not what I said at all. You are twisting it in a way which is neither implied nor stated.

If you put two things on a teeter totter and they end up at equal levels, they are balanced. One is not better, one is not worse, neither stands out from the other. 

Edit: Since you two can't understand what balance is. Balance is when in the grand scheme of things, the pieces in question are just as effective as one another. That does not mean that they will perform the same in every situation. In some situations one will perform better, in others it will perform worse. Overall though they will be just as viable as one another.

When everything is equal, nothing stands out. Some things might not mesh with certain players, some things will just click. Some things will have a higher skill cap, some will cater to the lcd. There is a degree of balance as it is. You don't have things like the old tonkor, where it outperforms so much that it's most notable feature and reason for it's overperformance was removed. The tonkor's lack of self damage and it's high damage with criticals gave players a way to safely push farther into the game than any other weapon. Even the boltor and soma prime of the time couldn't compete, they were the meta rifles, but paled in comparison.

In higher levels the Tonkor would start hitting the wall. As far as everyone witnessed the toxic part of the community wanted spin to win nerfed, camping in endless survival dead, stealth + gas nerf, and more, just because they were unique and everything else including beam weapons weren’t buffed the way they are now. Implying equal opportunity and equality outcome is just indoctrination and it doesn’t benefit the fre world nor does it benefit socialist countries anymore. So this everything needs nerfs to be equality in attention is a strong overtone.

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

stealth + gas nerf

Which is still extremely powerful, but the "masses" overlook it because it's not part of the "known meta".  😄 

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

13 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

 

 

9 hours ago, Deadoon said:

If everything is balanced, that means that nothing stands out... You can't have everything better or more notable than average, that isn't how it works.

**oops, please ignore post, didn’t fully grasp what you were saying. I actually agree with you, we just phrased it differently!!

 

Actually, that is how it works in video games. Balanced, in regards to weapons, would mean that every weapon is viable but maybe plays a little differently. This allows players to choose how they want to play the game.

Want to just mosey around and point blank crowds of enemies from the hip? Get yourself an Arca Plasmor! If even THAT is too much aiming for you, get hold of an Ignis wraith! (These are my 2 go to’s BTW).

it seems to me that there’s enough variety of viable weapons, that all behave differently, that players can choose how they want to play and still do well. If there was always one gun that clearly out performed the rest than there wouldn’t really be a choice for players. Things would get stale. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by (NSW)Sk0rp1on
I’m dumb

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

17 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Which is still extremely powerful, but the "masses" overlook it because it's not part of the "known meta".  😄 

awe blade is the person who pushed for that nerf. They knowingly stuck their nose in the business of the end game players’ business and befriended them, just to turn around and throw this trick into the nerf wave.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

16 hours ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

 

**oops, please ignore post, didn’t fully grasp what you were saying. I actually agree with you, we just phrased it differently!!

 

Actually, that is how it works in video games. Balanced, in regards to weapons, would mean that every weapon is viable but maybe plays a little differently. This allows players to choose how they want to play the game.

Want to just mosey around and point blank crowds of enemies from the hip? Get yourself an Arca Plasmor! If even THAT is too much aiming for you, get hold of an Ignis wraith! (These are my 2 go to’s BTW).

it seems to me that there’s enough variety of viable weapons, that all behave differently, that players can choose how they want to play and still do well. If there was always one gun that clearly out performed the rest than there wouldn’t really be a choice for players. Things would get stale. 

The options helps weapons cover different niches and have different functions. This is how we can ride the power creep uphill.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

21 hours ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

 Implying equal opportunity and equality outcome is just indoctrination and it doesn’t benefit the fre world nor does it benefit socialist countries anymore. So this everything needs nerfs to be equality in attention is a strong overtone.

Oh-kaaay.... clearly this isn’t just about weapon balance anymore. Maybe take it to r/politics or something.

And just so you know, power creep is generally considered  a bad thing. It’s what you call it when a game just makes everything more powerful as a substitute for actually interesting gameplay.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

15 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Oh-kaaay.... clearly this isn’t just about weapon balance anymore. Maybe take it to r/politics or something.

And just so you know, power creep is generally considered  a bad thing. It’s what you call it when a game just makes everything more powerful as a substitute for actually interesting gameplay.

If we get the old raids back and other like wise content then we can go towards the world of warcraft direction than the destiny direction we’re everything is the same thing with different names. D 2 has that painful lesson.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

1 minute ago, (XB1)XGN DrFeelGood said:

If we get the old raids back and other like wise content then we can go towards the world of warcraft direction than the destiny direction we’re everything is the same thing with different names. D 2 has that painful lesson.

Woah woah woah, I thought we were discussing the validity of socialism here! Not silly video games!

Also, if English is you’re second language than you’re doing great. Keep it up! 

However, If English is NOT your second language then you seriously need to take some writing classes.

[(XBOX)XGN DrFeelGood]

9 minutes ago, (NSW)Sk0rp1on said:

Woah woah woah, I thought we were discussing the validity of socialism here! Not silly video games!

Also, if English is you’re second language than you’re doing great. Keep it up! 

However, If English is NOT your second language then you seriously need to take some writing classes.

Socialism hurts many things, especially Warframe. If English is your primary language, then I can teach you university English composition.

[(NSW)Sk0rp1on]

Good trolling, keep it up👍🏼