Sanctuary Onslaught's Cave farming concepts should be removed from the game.

[Teridax68]

7 hours ago, GrayArchon said:

I don't have access to any metrics or data on the subject. I can only speak for myself. I've been playing this game for 6 years, and I've never had any problems with the grind in the game. The fact that I don't have that last part of the Lato Vandal is the reason why I keep doing ESO, and I don't resent DE for that. I play this game because of the way it's structured, not despite it.

Okay, but then it is possible for anyone to view, say, player counts across time on Steam, or even Steam achievements showing the percentage of players who completed certain critical quests, such as The Second Dream or The Sacrifice (less than 2% have completed the latter apparently). If you don't have any problem with the grind in the game, more power to you, but it's clear that many people do in fact take issue with its incentive structure. Moreover, the way you frame your motive for playing ESO itself implies that, once you've completed your Lato Vandal, you won't have a reason to keep playing the mode: you may not dislike the grind inherent in that, but both of us can agree that it's not optimal for repeatable content to be designed in such a way that it has no reason to be repeated at all past a certain point.

6 hours ago, MJ12 said:

A huge problem is that only 'loot cave' style missions actually spawn enough enemies often enough and in large enough numbers to make Warframe into a real horde shooter as it were. Worse, only those sorts of missions spawn enough enemies to allow for someone who isn't way up in the Mastery ranks to bring a weapon back to usefulness in a timely fashion. Sure, someone with MR25+ can probably take a r0 weapon into a Sortie with zero issue, but most people playing Warframe can't do things like that.

I like SO/ESO not just because they give you tons of focus, but because they feed you tons of kills. If you have a weapon good at engaging multiple targets, even without Saryn farming you can easily get an average of 2-3 kills a second or more in normal sanctuary onslaught, and that's fun in a power fantasy way.

This is a fair point, most of our current designated horde modes tend to not be very good at their job: enemy waves on Defense are notoriously anemic, Interception splits players and enemies up across the map, Survival spawns get easily messed up the moment a player enters another room, and Excavation has huge lulls in enemy density as leftover enemies from the previous excavator are still catching up. At the very least, SO/ESO makes for a more consistent horde mode by locking players into a single room and force-spawning enemies as soon as the previous ones die: to me, though, this suggests we need to rework current endless missions to feature more intense combat, without needing to rely on a throwaway mode to compensate for all of them. Interception as a mode I don't think has any intrinsic value, but Defense at the very least should probably release continuous amounts of enemies without splitting them into fixed-number waves, and instead measure the player on time (which would also give CC frames a better time too). Survival could perhaps take a page directly out of ESO and lock the player in a single Defense/Interception tile, so as to deal with the spawning issues, or otherwise should adjust its spawning algorithm so that enemy numbers are more consistent throughout.

[(PSN)BenHeisennberg]

I know many people who enjoy ESO, myself included.

Rather than ask that features you don't care for be removed, just don't do them so we can enjoy them.

[Test-995]

Honestly i don't really think "1 rad for every 5 minutes" is a bad reward, actually that's the reason why i keep playing ESO.