Quit Making Limbo's Abilities Affect Allies

[TeddyTalker]

1 hour ago, EinheriarJudith said:

actually all of the issues are addressable by just removing the negative effect the rift has on players. removing the negative effects do not in anyway change what limbo is. he will still be able to protect his allies from the enemy without shutting their weapons off, preventing them from accessing consoles, and picking up items. in fact if they did do it they can remove the opt out because now his allies would have no reason to not want the protection of the rift (when they need it) because it no longer intrudes on their playstyle and how they interact with the environment.

Edit: well no one except the frames that need to take damage to gain buffs.

This makes them invincible and give energy regeneration. This is broken, but you readily advocate for it because of the convenience it brings. I.... not even gonna bother going indepth with how wrong this suggestion is.

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

15 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

 You can loot items and shoot enemies inside cataclysm, unless the Switch version of the game is so far behind the times, you're stuck with pre-rework Limbo that also froze teammates' bullets. Recent rework allows you to shoot enemies inside cataclysm (assuming you both are inside or at the very least banished) and collect loot if both you and the items are in the bubble.

The problems you're facing sounds like you're being simply banished rather than pulled in a bubble, stopping you from collecting items or killing enemies who aren't in the same plane. I don't know many limbo players who use that skill at all beyond propagating his Rift Surge ability to pull more enemies into the rift, or banishing rescue targets and sortie defense targets to make them invulnerable to damage, which leads me to believe you were getting trolled.

My advice is, if you run into a Limbo who is deliberately following you around and banishing you just to mess with you, take screenshots. Ask him to stop banishing you and if he says no and/or acts hostile, screencap the conversation, and send it all in as a support ticket. DE might punish the player responsible.

Yeah, we've been saying its Banish before.  But regardless the name, the issue still stands (again, I haven't use him yet, so I don't know his abilities' names fully yet.)  

Either way, simply removing the negative effect on allies will hurt limbo players in no way, and even fix the issue.

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

I just find it hilarious there are some people saying "No!  Leave the negative effect on teammates in!"  

Getting rid of this will literally not hurt Limbo mains at all, so I'm honestly curious why it makes more sense to have to find work around and just deal with it, when it can easily just be turned off, and both parties will be happy?

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Justo ahora, (NSW)Nintendork3D dijo:

I just find it hilarious there are some people saying "No!  Leave the negative effect on teammates in!"  

Getting rid of this will literally not hurt Limbo mains at all, so I'm honestly curious why it makes more sense to have to find work around and just deal with it, when it can easily just be turned off, and both parties will be happy?

A limbo with no "negative" effects sounds too op, it might even transform it into the one and only cc frame, a supreme creature worthy of his fabulous hat, after that he will receive a massive nerf rendering him useless, and that, hurts limbo players imo

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

A limbo with no "negative" effects sounds too op, it might even transform it into the one and only cc frame, a supreme creature worthy of his fabulous hat, after that he will receive a massive nerf rendering him useless, and that, hurts limbo players imo

I didn't say no negative effects.  I said no negative effects "on allies."  The player will retain the negative effects, which will also help prevent them from needless spamming.

Edited May 14, 2019 by (NSW)Nintendork3D

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

hace 1 minuto, (NSW)Nintendork3D dijo:

I didn't say no negative effects.  I said no negative effects "in allies."  The player will retain the negative effects, which will also help prevent them from needless spamming.

So basically you sacrifice your fun to be the time stopping god in the squad?

Edit: still sounds too op for me

Edited May 14, 2019 by (PS4)ZERO_ghost90

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

1 minute ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

So basically you sacrifice your fun to be the time stopping god in the squad?

Edit: still sounds too op for me

It's literally what he's already sacrificing. XD

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Justo ahora, (NSW)Nintendork3D dijo:

It's literally what he's already sacrificing. XD

I dont know about limbo casuals, but i use limbo because i enjoy having full control of the situation, and he is already too perfect as a cc, this game is way too easy for limbo, so i end up using his skills when al of the other squad members die or the objective is about to be destroyes.

You just keep playing, limbo is not as common as you might think, there is a very low chance to find a limbo that is not leveling up or out of a mobile defense mission

[EothasianBoar]

10 minutes ago, (NSW)Nintendork3D said:

I didn't say no negative effects.  I said no negative effects "in allies."  The player will retain the negative effects, which will also help prevent them from needless spamming.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

Edit: still sounds too op for me

It IS OP. I'm not in the group of Limbo is always right. I think he could be a lot more friendly with the team. BUT.

Unmodded, Banish give 25 seconds of invincibility + 2/s energy regen for 25 energy. You, as a teammate will be able to run around killing enemies without them being able to do anything back, while Limbo sits in the rift, safe and sound, just occasionally reapplied banished on teammate. That'll be broken. Duration Limbo FTW.

Trinity's Blessing give you 80% heal + 50% DR, only last for 10 seconds and cost 100 energy; and it didn't even protect you from status effect and CC. Just to put in perspective of how broken Banish will be if it did not have damage restriction. The restriction are there for a reason. You remove the negative the ability become broken.

The other restriction like loots pick up and context action are just annoyance and can be remove but damage restriction is THE ONE THING that preventing it from being OP.

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by AhLiu338

[EinheriarJudith]

38 minutes ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

This makes them invincible and give energy regeneration. This is broken, but you readily advocate for it because of the convenience it brings. I.... not even gonna bother going indepth with how wrong this suggestion is.

please do not assume i personally want something op to be introduced. they could easily balance this by either removing energy regen, or changing it from invincibility to damage reduction, or both end result is limbo retains the ability to protect his allies from enemies without forcing allies to change playstyle by imposing his rules on them.

what i want is for limbo to be a welcome frame in every type of group setup in the game not just solo and premades. i also want him to not impose his rule set on other players. this is a coop game that has varied playstyles and no frame should disrupt a players preferred way to play with their existence.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Good news for me is that this thread will end in nothing, the only thing that limbo lacks imo is more ways to control the rift, just time stopping is too vague for a warframe that can totally control his own dimension, 4 skills is too limiting for a frame like this

[Pizzarugi]

30 minutes ago, (NSW)Nintendork3D said:

Yeah, we've been saying its Banish before.  But regardless the name, the issue still stands (again, I haven't use him yet, so I don't know his abilities' names fully yet.)  

Either way, simply removing the negative effect on allies will hurt limbo players in no way, and even fix the issue.

The next problem therein lies with how you'd balance out the rift mechanic. You can't simply remove players not being able to hurt enemies between planes (excluding powers) while they continue to take advantage of things like invulnerability, status immunity, and energy regen. It would be like taking Rhino's Iron Skin, make it duration-based instead of having its own health pool, tack on energy regen, and give it to a frame who can apply it to anyone they please. We can't remove players being unable to be harmed when attacked by an enemy from another plane, because otherwise there'd be no reason to have the rift at all.

At the very least, we can allow banished players to pick up items regardless of what plane its in, but anything more than that is going to require changing Limbo's core rift theme.

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, Datam4ss said:

Basically another Limbo thread because OP probably sees someone using Limbo in a context where Limbo is quite useless.

Limbo is fine now, actually. Surprising right?

Or the Limbo is deliberately trolling teammates and screwing up their gaming experience. Those are a thing.

I can't say I've had it happen yet, personally, but I almost always play Nidus so would-be Limbo trolls are completely ineffective against me. 😛

[(NSW)Nintendork3D]

6 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The next problem therein lies with how you'd balance out the rift mechanic. You can't simply remove players not being able to hurt enemies between planes (excluding powers) while they continue to take advantage of things like invulnerability, status immunity, and energy regen. It would be like taking Rhino's Iron Skin, make it duration-based instead of having its own health pool, tack on energy regen, and give it to a frame who can apply it to anyone they please. We can't remove players being unable to be harmed when attacked by an enemy from another plane, because otherwise there'd be no reason to have the rift at all.

At the very least, we can allow banished players to pick up items regardless of what plane its in, but anything more than that is going to require changing Limbo's core rift theme.

I'd be personally fine with just the loot change (as I said, the rare mod being lost is what made me make this thread after so much) but trust me when I say it is practiclaly 90% of limbo players that I encounter.  Despite what some trolls are saying, it wasn't "one" limbo player.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

As a person that plays at least 5 hours a day and only on public groups, the only limbo i see is myself, and unless the usage of limbo is different on nintendo switch you are probably concentrating way too much on little problems that you can easilly solve by just rolling

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, Datam4ss said:

It seems to be a problem on only your end, or maybe in the lives of some people. I don't experience it so why would I find it an issue? As far as my gameplay experience goes, Limbo works fine in his context.

So yes, it is unwarranted in my opinion.

so funny you should say this when DE has to add an opt out for banish and had to make fixes so you could loot items while in cataclysm. btw the rift still blocks console use banish still blocks picking up of items unless you roll. the rift still turns off guns and melee with banished player or enemies or any enemy outside the rift in cataclysm. it is not unwarrented and not asking much. limbo's lvl of CC is so powerful it doesnt even need to be used until enemies start fighting back. limbo is also a menace when it comes to arbitration.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Justo ahora, EinheriarJudith dijo:

 limbo's lvl of CC is so powerful it doesnt even need to be used until enemies start fighting back. limbo is also a menace when it comes to arbitration.

Exactly, this is the whole limbo story in a nutshell

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Now that i think of it, those trash limbo players were probably using the horrible augment that heals on banish, did you notice some kind of healing wben this incident happened?  Lol

Edited May 14, 2019 by (PS4)ZERO_ghost90

[Guest]

1 minute ago, EinheriarJudith said:

so funny you should say this when DE has to add an opt out for banish and had to make fixes so you could loot items while in cataclysm.

The thing is that these are already in game. They exist, so why is OP not using them?

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

btw the rift still blocks console use banish still blocks picking up of items unless you roll. the rift still turns off guns and melee with banished player or enemies or any enemy outside the rift in cataclysm.

This is known as a drawback. It is a demerit purposely put in the game to limit the power of Limbo.

If Limbo's Rift didn't have this drawback you might as well just permanently play Limbo because he cannot die/his team mates cannot die while the enemies get massacred.

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

limbo's lvl of CC is so powerful it doesnt even need to be used until enemies start fighting back. limbo is also a menace when it comes to arbitration.

You actually need it when babysitting pubs on Heiracon. They can manage to let the extractor get destroyed even in the first few minutes.

Anyone who takes Limbo to Arbitration is a troll, so it is a player issue, not a frame issue.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

hace 10 minutos, Datam4ss dijo:

You actually need it when babysitting pubs on Heiracon. They can manage to let the extractor get destroyed even in the first few minutes.

Actually, the vazarin school can heal and make incincible any defense objective, already rendering any defense frame useless or redundant, the word "need" might not be the correct therm

Edited May 14, 2019 by (PS4)ZERO_ghost90

[EothasianBoar]

Or we can give allies more control of where they want to be. 

- Instead of banishing, give allies Limbo's Riftwalk if they are hit by Banish, go through Rift Tear or touch Cataclysm. Duration is based on Banish duration or it can be a fixed stat, not effected by mods.

- Remove loot pick-up and context action restriction. Keep the damage restriction; that's THE ONE THING that is important.

- Cataclysm plane state does not effect allies, i.e. allies can be in material plane inside Cataclysm. Enemies inside of Cataclysm are still in Rift Plane and allies still need to get into the same plane to damages them. But by touching the bubble you now have Riftwalk and can shift plane as you see fit.

Allow allies to control themselves when playing with Limbo instead of relying on him. Just one possibility to considered.

Edited May 14, 2019 by AhLiu338

[Guest]

Just now, (PS4)ZERO_ghost90 said:

Actually, the vazarin school can heal and make incincible any defense objective, already rendering any defense frame useless or redundant

You might as well say Magus Repair renders any healing frame irrelevant at this rate.

Convenience is not equivalent in this case.

[Pizzarugi]

5 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

This is known as a drawback. It is a demerit purposely put in the game to limit the power of Limbo.

If Limbo's Rift didn't have this drawback you might as well just permanently play Limbo because he cannot die/his team mates cannot die while the enemies get massacred.

So were players inability to take carried items into the rift (ex. power cell into cataclysm where there's an excavator) or bullets freezing. Turns out those were too heavy of a drawback and got axed on the rework. Somehow I doubt removing console prevention is going to turn him from being okay to OP.

It's also another potential thing Limbo trolls can use against players. Can't enter the jail in a rescue mission or start survival if Limbo keeps popping cataclysm on a console.

Also, given current game mechanics such as Focus, it's pointless to have this limitation. Banished as Limbo and you want to use the console? Take out your operator, go into void mode, and use the console like normal. Still invulnerable. Might as well cut out the middle man and just let banished players use the console.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

hace 1 minuto, Datam4ss dijo:

You might as well say Magus Repair renders any healing frame irrelevant at this rate.

Convenience is not equivalent in this case.

Magus trash? No lol, vazarin is on a different level

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Pizzarugi said:

So were players inability to take carried items into the rift (ex. power cell into cataclysm where there's an excavator) or bullets freezing. Turns out those were too heavy of a drawback and got axed on the rework. Somehow I doubt removing console prevention is going to turn him from being okay to OP.

It's also another potential thing Limbo trolls can use against players. Can't enter the jail in a rescue mission or start survival if Limbo keeps popping cataclysm on a console.

Also, given current game mechanics such as Focus, it's pointless to have this limitation. Banished as Limbo and you want to use the console? Take out your operator, go into void mode, and use the console like normal. Still invulnerable. Might as well cut out the middle man and just let banished players use the console.

And your last point is precisely what DE will be anal about and say "but you can use the console". Suffices to say I won't be against it if they let you activate the consoles in Cata.

The thing about what OP was talking was a lot more than just that, though.

The freezing bullets thing pissed me off quite a bit so I won't comment further on that one.