Petition A Change For (Or A Solution To) Current Reward System, Rng

[sambarpowder]

No. DE might as well phase out melee or the Grineer.

[Communist101]

No.

 

Until a completely viable an unexploitable system can be realized, RNG should be kept as it is, or we will be going back to Phase One all over again.

[BlueQuail]

I think DE should just hand everyone free S#&$ then shut the game down because no one would buy anything and only complain about the lack of content. You guys are so silly. You can't remove RNG from a game where you hunt bosses and enemies for gear. This is an MMOinstance based TPS. RNG will stay forever and a token system will be added later like every other MMO.

[VScipii26]

 This is true for me as well.

 

 However I'm not okay with doing something like 50 runs and not having all three parts.

 

  Saryn, Nova and now Rhino have all taken me better then 50 runs to build. It is the grind trap I mention every so often. The game has literally nothing in place to save a person from getting stuck in a huge rut where they're left running one mission for too long.

 

 There is a point where the sheer amount of times I've had to repeat a simple process becomes unreasonable. The repetition of it is horrible for a player.

What about RNG and a Token System?

% chance to receive Mod, resource, part, etc tokens, as if they were drops. Trade in a common token for a common mod, uncommon reousrce token for plastids, and have Void tokens be T1-T3, and you choose what you want to try for. EG. "I need Boar Prime, let me throw a T3 toke at this. 30% chance of receiver and 70% for blueprint? Well I have the blueprint, but at least I specifically know the chance and the logical amount of tokens i need!"

There would still be rage (In browser game I play, it's entirely RNG based. I've failed an 80% chance 17 times in a row. That was some earned rage from me. It didn't help that it failed the mission misrably, threw my character in prison, and then tripled his jail time), but the ability to choose your RNG mitigates a large portion of the hatred for it.

An additional thing would be trade X (I'm thinkin' 10:1) common token for an Uncommon token. Rather than having 27 Reach mods, maybe I could be part way to saving up to "buy" a Split Chamber mod.

Fusion Cores could be similar, with X tokens = a core.

As for the question "Why not just farm Xini for everything?"

Well, faction based tokens. "Uncommon Corpus Resource Token". Then you simply determine what resources correlate to what faction.

[BlueQuail]

You guys don't want a token system. Have you seen how it works in other games?

[Blatantfool]

You guys don't want a token system. Have you seen how it works in other games?

Yeah, that is what I keep thinking. I'd have to see some pretty phenomenal evidence that a token system would work out before I'd ever go for it.

I'd rather talk about other solutions first. Token systems are typically going to be towards the end of any list of solutions I'd want.

What about RNG and a Token System?

% chance to receive Mod, resource, part, etc tokens, as if they were drops. Trade in a common token for a common mod, uncommon reousrce token for plastids, and have Void tokens be T1-T3, and you choose what you want to try for. EG. "I need Boar Prime, let me throw a T3 toke at this. 30% chance of receiver and 70% for blueprint? Well I have the blueprint, but at least I specifically know the chance and the logical amount of tokens i need!"

There would still be rage (In browser game I play, it's entirely RNG based. I've failed an 80% chance 17 times in a row. That was some earned rage from me. It didn't help that it failed the mission misrably, threw my character in prison, and then tripled his jail time), but the ability to choose your RNG mitigates a large portion of the hatred for it.

An additional thing would be trade X (I'm thinkin' 10:1) common token for an Uncommon token. Rather than having 27 Reach mods, maybe I could be part way to saving up to "buy" a Split Chamber mod.

Fusion Cores could be similar, with X tokens = a core.

As for the question "Why not just farm Xini for everything?"

Well, faction based tokens. "Uncommon Corpus Resource Token". Then you simply determine what resources correlate to what faction.

I am not really on board with a Token system. This is mostly the fault of a horrible bias against that sort of thing. I hardly ever like it in other games, so I'm not finding myself getting hyped on the idea here.

I'd prefer there to be some method to take the duplicate parts I always end up with and turn those into the parts I need.

In as many runs as I've done farming for Rhino recently I've amasses a neat little pile of useless duplicates of both Rhino Systems and Rhino Helmet. I'd prefer to just turn those in for the Chassis.

At this stage no one can say I haven't grinded like crazy already. I had to grind at least long enough to manage the duplicates I'm speaking of despite the tendency for bosses to drop no BP at all.

So I see no reason 4 duplicates can't turn into the final part I need.

At least then I could quite boring myself to death grinding Jackal and move on to playing things I'd find more entertaining.

[Sixty5]

 This is true for me as well.

 

 However I'm not okay with doing something like 50 runs and not having all three parts.

 

  Saryn, Nova and now Rhino have all taken me better then 50 runs to build. It is the grind trap I mention every so often. The game has literally nothing in place to save a person from getting stuck in a huge rut where they're left running one mission for too long.

 

 There is a point where the sheer amount of times I've had to repeat a simple process becomes unreasonable. The repetition of it is horrible for a player.

Which is why I avoid running the same mission any more than three times in a row. Unless it is Yam-Sedna. I like that mission since it spawn swarms of infested for me, and use it as a test ground.

[Inquisitioner]

Show me a viable alternative that will still allow DE to make a living and maybe I'll bite.

[Blatantfool]

Which is why I avoid running the same mission any more than three times in a row. Unless it is Yam-Sedna. I like that mission since it spawn swarms of infested for me, and use it as a test ground.

 

 This isn't good enough. There needs to be a better solution then the player giving up on the grind for a while. It could be made to work better.

 

 The game should not be allowing situations where the RNG causes players to go extreme stretches without being able to get any form of pay off or satisfaction. When you are putting your nose to the grinder to get a new frame or certain specific weapons it can be torture because of the chance that it could take you double or triple the runs of your friends for no good reason.

 

 Evidence of it pops up often. I got Ember in a reasonable 15 runs.

 

 And like I said earlier - Saryn, Nova and now Rhino have all taken me well over 50 runs. Nova, in fact, significantly more.

 

 There needs to be a safety net of some description. Eliminating grind isn't necessary. Preventing it from getting nuts for no reason is getting more and more necessary as the game grows.

[Sixty5]

 This isn't good enough. There needs to be a better solution then the player giving up on the grind for a while. It could be made to work better.

 

 The game should not be allowing situations where the RNG causes players to go extreme stretches without being able to get any form of pay off or satisfaction. When you are putting your nose to the grinder to get a new frame or certain specific weapons it can be torture because of the chance that it could take you double or triple the runs of your friends randomly.

 

 Evidence of it pops up often. I got Ember in a reasonable 15 runs.

 

 And like I said earlier - Saryn, Nova and now Rhino have all taken me well over 50 runs. Nova, in fact, significantly more.

 

 There needs to be a safety net of some description. Eliminating grind isn't necessary. Preventing it from getting nuts for no reason is getting more and more necessary as the game grows.

Maybe tweak the system to work in a similar way to the Alerts 2.0, where if something hasn't dropped it gains a higher chance of dropping. I suppose it would be hard to impliment with 4 players, but I suppose you could bind it to the host or have an algorithm. That would most likely leave everyone happy.

 

Also I'm kinda happy I took the opportunity to grind out all of the Grineer bosses during the informer event. Got 2 grinds done for the price of one. 

[arche]

No.

[Blatantfool]

Maybe tweak the system to work in a similar way to the Alerts 2.0, where if something hasn't dropped it gains a higher chance of dropping. I suppose it would be hard to impliment with 4 players, but I suppose you could bind it to the host or have an algorithm. That would most likely leave everyone happy.

 

Also I'm kinda happy I took the opportunity to grind out all of the Grineer bosses during the informer event. Got 2 grinds done for the price of one. 

 

  I'm not too worried about what the solution is. Just that a solution is found. I'm not just sick of it myself - I'm tired of seeing it affect other people too.

 

 All RNG related complaints seem to involve or revolve around this weakness in the game these days. It is just getting worse too. 

 

 Your solution is alright. It would certainly help to set up a roof on the grind, which is as good a solution as any in my opinion.

[Sixty5]

  I'm not too worried about what the solution is. Just that a solution is found. I'm not just sick of it myself - I'm tired of seeing it affect other people too.

 

 All RNG related complaints seem to involve or revolve around this weakness in the game these days. It is just getting worse too. 

 

 Your solution is alright. It would certainly help to set up a roof on the grind, which is as good a solution as any in my opinion.

 

Mmn. The state of the game doesn't bother me that much, except for the Derelicts crashing my game 9/10 times (less after enabling multicore threading).

 

Real solutions are hard to come up with, but at least the one offered will placate the people who are bothered by it.

[RNG_God]

no.

 

Any system will have some flaws. And while a token system does sound better on paper, I can imagine it quickly becoming a massive grind.

 

Also, you people migh want to be careful ;D

[Niryco]

 This isn't good enough. There needs to be a better solution then the player giving up on the grind for a while. It could be made to work better.

 

 The game should not be allowing situations where the RNG causes players to go extreme stretches without being able to get any form of pay off or satisfaction. When you are putting your nose to the grinder to get a new frame or certain specific weapons it can be torture because of the chance that it could take you double or triple the runs of your friends for no good reason.

 

 Evidence of it pops up often. I got Ember in a reasonable 15 runs.

 

 And like I said earlier - Saryn, Nova and now Rhino have all taken me well over 50 runs. Nova, in fact, significantly more.

 

 There needs to be a safety net of some description. Eliminating grind isn't necessary. Preventing it from getting nuts for no reason is getting more and more necessary as the game grows.

I suggest something similar to the current J-2000 Golem with good amount of tweaking. For example, current bosses in all planets would have their respective assassinate missions and players can kill them to get a unique weapon or gear(maybe scarves or skin for weapons or sentinels) whereas warframe parts would be drop as end mission rewards that is mixed in with some unique rare skins so that it isn't too easy to get warframes. In addition one does not need to craft any keys to get to the bosses. There could be at most 6 items in the end mission drop table and atleast 4 items including frame parts.

 

On to void, this can be practised on the same effect but instead of bosses dropping rare weapons, we can have "unique mobs" in the void with special features that have a chance to drop weapon blueprints, sort of like having a stalker that atleast appears once per mission and maybe 3 times at most. At the end of the mission it would be skins and the warframe as well as forma. This would help split the loot tables evenly thereby allowing for equal amounts of loot to be acquired in more places but not making it go out of control too.

[TwoCrabs]

token system DE, make it happen!

[Ailith]

Yes, I'd like a reliable system. However, I doubt it will be changed soon due to how much "effort" they've put into drop tables and the sheer number of drops that are currently in the game.

 

It's bad enough that I have to spend several days trying to find a mod or blueprint in the first place, but then most items take several days, sometimes up to a week, to craft. Those who defend this system are masochists. And no, I will not pay real money to speed up a process that's fundamentally broken.

 

I tried to keep it short.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Ailith

[alphaslider]

NO, Fokens are for laundry and old arcades.  You are going to really turn Warframe into farm land if you try to input Fokens.  Yes I intentionally misspelled it.  Also, I bet dollars to dounuts if a Foken system is implemented in 2 months time the same bunch of whiners begging for a foken system are to whine oh the requirements are way to high to get stuff with tokens. 

[ValiantCorvus]

Honestly, a good trading system would solve all of this.  But I would take it a step further and follow the steps of Perfect World Online with it (Except with the whole selling power bullS#&$ that they pulled after a while).

 

Put trading into the game.  Make an auction house of sorts where players can bid/buy any item in the game that they want if someone else put it up for sale.  Along with that, put in an exchange rate between credits and platinum.

 

Before you flip on me, hear me out.  This rate would be determined by the players who can auction off their platinum, not by DE who attempted to put real life value on the credits by putting them in the market.  In other words, it would reward players who spent the time playing the game to amass a large amount of credits while giving new players an incentive to drop a few bucks into the game without it being a real requirement; ultimately what this does is make Platinum a "pay for convenience" currency, while making market items available to everyone in game regardless if they pay or not.  Sure, this might not boil over so easily seeing that many players already have millions of credits (You want a credit dump?  Here you go) and it would require a lot of tweeking as to Platinum prices, but I believe that it would ultimately balance itself out in the end.

Edited September 22, 2013 by ValiantCorvus

[7.T.]

Yes, something has to change somewhere.

 

  I agree with pretty much everything Blatantfool has said. I'm going to link a post of a copy of a post that I made yesterday lol https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/110822-you-can-take-all-these-formaforma-bps-and-just/#entry1288014 Those 5 recent Prime weapons.... ugh.  

 

Edit: I've done a lot more void runs in total than it may seem. And the Mag Prime stuff happened after I was already tired of trying to get the prime weapons hence only 9 tries thus far

Edited September 22, 2013 by 7.T.

[Ailith]

Maybe tweak the system to work in a similar way to the Alerts 2.0, where if something hasn't dropped it gains a higher chance of dropping. I suppose it would be hard to impliment with 4 players, but I suppose you could bind it to the host or have an algorithm. That would most likely leave everyone happy.

 

Also I'm kinda happy I took the opportunity to grind out all of the Grineer bosses during the informer event. Got 2 grinds done for the price of one. 

I was going to suggest something like this.

 

There's a character in League of Legends, named Thresh, who collects the souls of enemies when they die and gains stats based on how many he's collected. The chance for a soul to drop from a dead enemy is adjusted based on how many have or haven't dropped in a given time frame. If your quota isn't being met, souls will drop more frequently and if a bunch have recently dropped, then you'll have a temporary drought.

 

Surely something similar could be done to the drop system, yes?

Edited September 22, 2013 by Ailith

[WeissKreuz]

Nope. Basic knowledge of statistics means that I can accept not getting all three parts in three runs.

Terrible argument. Just terrible.

[Lumireaver]

Triple no.

 

I like dicerolls, as long as DE balances the results responsibly no ill should result.

[edryuu]

yes

[Lumireaver]

I think the reason RNG dependent systems terrify people is because of the uninformed notion that the "R" for "random" implies that their future is at the mercy of complete random chance. I feel that if more people educated themselves as to why this isn't the case, they would be less averse to the idea as a whole.