MR9 test since Gauss (?) update - AI detection range and/or crouch stealth mechanics broken

[srgtcolon]

I tried to help a friend with MR9 but the detection range has grown huge in the past few weeks (perhaps Gauss update).

I ran my test 3 weeks ago easy, I basically crouch hid top of the columns when encroached. This does not work any more, grineers pick you out even high, across the map.
It seems guards, especially in phase 3, have extreme detection range even while crouching.

Here is a vid of phase 3 guards detecting after jumping back to phase 2 area and crouching.
https://youtu.be/0B5c3pJ_IyA

 

Edited September 6, 2019 by srgtcolon

[LittleFreak92]

thats why i have so much trouble passing it. grineers spotting my 1 km away

[Phreanox]

That's all true, one of my friends passed it and now my other friend is losing his mind. This test is still harder than Sekiro. Maybe it's not particularly from the Saint of Altra but DE pls fix

[WeltallZero]

My SO is stuck on this test too. It's hard to convey how broken it is. I passed it on my account a couple of months back, first try with no issue; we've been trying to pass it in her account, in practice mode, for several weeks, easily 50+ tries, and failed every single one of them. There's simply no way to do anything about the last three guards in the third test, they stay in sight range of each other at all times. We even tried boomerangs but their sight distance is far longer than the throw range. 

It obviously affects other stuff too. It's much harder to catch enemies off-guard now even in regular missions; other guards will see you and sound the alarm, often before you can even see them. So many mechanics have become useless now: stealth kills, turning down alarms... what used to be an entertaining alternative to kill everyone with guns blazing, is now useless and impossible, making the game that much more monotonous. In open world stages it's even worse; you are often shot from distances almost beyond draw distance, where enemies are little more than dots. Fauna conservation missions are far too infuriating to even attempt.

It's amazing how a little change like this can make the game so unpleasant to play, and every weirder how DE hasn't noticed or addressed this in any way. Please, DE, this straight out breaks Warframe! 😞

For context, this was broken before the Gauss update, but not long before. I passed my MR9 no longer than two months ago, so my estimation is between 1 and 2 months, probably during September. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by WeltallZero

[WeltallZero]

For anyone still stuck here, I finally managed to complete it by using Umbra's Skiajati. It turns you invisible for five seconds after a stealth finisher, so with a bit of practice you can simply chain them once you get the first one. Took a few practice runs to make sure I could pull it off consistently, then did it for real.

Of course, this workaround is useless for any new players that doesn't have Umbra or doesn't know about the Skiajati's special ability, and even with it, it requires far more skill and tenacity than any other mastery rank test; the bug still needs fixing ASAP. 

[LordXoom]

Many of my friends can't end it, if you don't fix it, you'll lose 2 people and a lot of money. 

[(PSN)crashteddy03]

On 2019-09-06 at 7:46 PM, srgtcolon said:

I tried to help a friend with MR9 but the detection range has grown huge in the past few weeks (perhaps Gauss update).

I ran my test 3 weeks ago easy, I basically crouch hid top of the columns when encroached. This does not work any more, grineers pick you out even high, across the map.
It seems guards, especially in phase 3, have extreme detection range even while crouching.

Here is a vid of phase 3 guards detecting after jumping back to phase 2 area and crouching.
https://youtu.be/0B5c3pJ_IyA

 

The same thing applies to the MR19 test. It seems that the enemy detection range has been significantly increased with the recent update. I remember doing the MR9 test using Ivara for her innate enemy sense and absolutely breezed through it first time. I've done several practice runs on MR19 today and only managed it twice using Skiajati. Sadly I failed the actual qualify. I also tried it using Redeemer Prime which seemed promising, until one of the Grineer enemies spotted me on the starting post from the other side of the map (had to be 50m+ away).

I also suspect that mods weren't taking effect as I had Enemy Sense, Stealth Drift and Vigilante Pursuit equipped and I could see an enemy on a platform just below me yet they were not showing up on the radar.

The MR tests should be difficult, but shouldn't require you to have a certain frame or certain weapons just to make them possible.

 

[WeltallZero]

10 hours ago, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

The same thing applies to the MR19 test. It seems that the enemy detection range has been significantly increased with the recent update. I remember doing the MR9 test using Ivara for her innate enemy sense and absolutely breezed through it first time. I've done several practice runs on MR19 today and only managed it twice using Skiajati. Sadly I failed the actual qualify. I also tried it using Redeemer Prime which seemed promising, until one of the Grineer enemies spotted me on the starting post from the other side of the map (had to be 50m+ away).

I also suspect that mods weren't taking effect as I had Enemy Sense, Stealth Drift and Vigilante Pursuit equipped and I could see an enemy on a platform just below me yet they were not showing up on the radar.

The MR tests should be difficult, but shouldn't require you to have a certain frame or certain weapons just to make them possible.

 

I don't understand why they keep ignoring this, there's so many threads about it:

 

Still not fixed, and no replies whatsoever from DE from what I can tell. Earliest one seems to be from August 30th, so the Gauss update seems to be indeed what broke it (for some reason I thought Gauss was more recent than that). It particularly makes any non-combat activity in Plains or Vallis almost unplayable and completely unenjoyable, as you have to be several literal kilometers away from any Grineer base or you'll be constantly bombarded and sniped by enemies that are a distant dot at best and can only hit back with sniper rifles. Even if you do, you'll be constantly pestered by Dargyns. Absolutely disastrous state of affairs. 😞

[Ogundiety]

Enemy sense is (and always has been) limited in verticality.  Range increases do not for some reason expand that cylinder verticality, they increase the radius. Even if it is map wide, it won't show the third floor if you are on the first.

 

 

[WeltallZero]

1 minute ago, Ogundiety said:

Enemy sense is (and always has been) limited in verticality.  Range increases do not for some reason expand that cylinder verticality, they increase the radius. Even if it is map wide, it won't show the third floor if you are on the first.

 

 

While this is an interesting bit of trivia (and why it pays to bullet jump into the air when you're searching for loot), what does it have to do with the topic?

[Ogundiety]

1 minute ago, WeltallZero said:

While this is an interesting bit of trivia (and why it pays to bullet jump into the air when you're searching for loot), what does it have to do with the topic?

It was in reply to the person posting about mods not 'taking effect' on the MR 19 test- phone posting makes quoting difficult so I tried without.  

As for the bug, it is absolutely real and I am quite aware- I thought someone was just whining, tried the MR19 test myself and was shocked.  I have since beaten the 9 and 19 test with as basic frames/weapons as I can and no relevant mods, but they are clearly broken/overtuned, trivially being the hardest MR tests currently in game ( personally I find the 9 harder than the 19), and anyone who says they haven't gotten a major difficulty bump almost certainly has not done them since this big change.

[(PSN)crashteddy03]

9 hours ago, Ogundiety said:

Enemy sense is (and always has been) limited in verticality.  Range increases do not for some reason expand that cylinder verticality, they increase the radius. Even if it is map wide, it won't show the third floor if you are on the first.

 

 

I wasn't aware of this - will have to keep it in mind for the future.

[WeltallZero]

13 hours ago, Ogundiety said:

It was in reply to the person posting about mods not 'taking effect' on the MR 19 test- phone posting makes quoting difficult so I tried without.  

Sorry about that, I completely missed that part of their post and I thought you were interpreting "enemy detection range" as players detecting enemies. :)

We went fishing for a while yesterday (needed murkrays for the operator amp) and boy is it ridiculous. Dropships from three different directions dropping plattoons that shoot at us while they're invisible except with a sniper scope. The only way to do any non-combat activity in the plains now is to bring a max rank frame with a sniper rifle and find a spot that is kilometers away from the nearest grineer base, and even then you need to drop everything you're doing as soon as you hear them.

[LordXoom]

Still no fix and no replay from DE.... What they can do for solve this bug on MR9? unistall the game?(sarcasm)... I really don't understand why this staff doesn't replay on this bug... really unprofessional!! It doesn't exist a way of communicating directly to a Game Master Developer for ask to fix it... or solve the problem that blocks new people from playing on this game... Maybe is this the way to manage a game?

Edited September 30, 2019 by LordXoom

[LeonardHankMcCoy]

16 minutes ago, LordXoom said:

Still no fix and no replay from DE.... What they can do for solve this bug on MR9? unistall the game?(sarcasm)... I really don't understand why this staff doesn't replay on this bug... really unprofessional!! It doesn't exist a way of communicating directly to a Game Master Developer for ask to fix it... or solve the problem that blocks new people from playing on this game... Maybe is this the way to manage a game?

I share his disappointment, it's a shame. I'm so sorry, as a clan leader not being able to help my friends to overcome mastery 9 makes me feel bad. I spent a lot of money and I'm not here to say how many in this game, it's not fair to not be heard by GM.

Edited September 30, 2019 by LeonardHankMcCoy

[Villalian]

2 weeks ago in training mode I completed this many times. But now they can see me through the walls, especially level 3 has become too hard

[WeltallZero]

I think we should consolidate all discussion of this issue in this thread. A single thread that keeps getting bumped is probably more visible than a handful of threads with a couple of posts that fall off the first page. 

In any case, the complete radio silence from DE is pretty shocking. I would assume it's because they're on vacation but they've been posting updates and fixes all month, so it's not that. I can only assume they think we're exaggerating when we say MR9 is impossible, because leaving the game in a literal progression-breaking state while fixing cosmetic clipping issues is surreal. 

[KittZehn]

I've personally given up on the MR9 test for the time being. I get way too frustrated when a pinprick mob on level 3 turns a sharp corner and detects me from across the map, or a non-adjacent mob spots me on top of a pillar or crouched behind a pillar. I can't figure out a pattern to my failures that I can solve, nor reliably establish a run routine so I can confidently take the test.

I wouldn't say the test is impossible to complete. Since the Gauss mainline, I've managed it twice in about 20 practice attempts, Banshee/Redeemer/maxed out Enemy Sense mods. Once I have the Rakta Dark Dagger, I might try that out. I personally just don't find the aggravation worth the reward (same with conservation on Orb Vallis, I've just stopped doing them), and the radio silence from DE since August is surprising. At least some "we see this and are working on it" acknowledgment would be nice.

Edited September 30, 2019 by KittZehn

[Ogundiety]

Rakta Dark dagger is useless(sorry).  Try doing the primary story quests until you beat The Sacrifice (ed: this is after War Within, which is itself after Second Dream- if you have done both, and don't know what to do, feel free to PM me, there can be spoilers if you google, if you have not done both do those first), there is a reward from that quest that can significantly help.  There is a video floating around of someone doing it since the patch, it is possible ( just comically hard), I will take a look when I can  use my not phone and edit it in.

 

Edit:

Someone (not me!) posted this, and this route works and requires nothing special (I use a slightly different one, but functionally very similar)-

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Ogundiety

[Villalian]

21 час назад, Ogundiety сказал:

Rakta Dark dagger is useless(sorry).  Try doing the primary story quests until you beat The Sacrifice (ed: this is after War Within, which is itself after Second Dream- if you have done both, and don't know what to do, feel free to PM me, there can be spoilers if you google, if you have not done both do those first), there is a reward from that quest that can significantly help.  There is a video floating around of someone doing it since the patch, it is possible ( just comically hard), I will take a look when I can  use my not phone and edit it in.

 

Edit:

Someone (not me!) posted this, and this route works and requires nothing special (I use a slightly different one, but functionally very similar)-

 

 

This method does not work. Again wait for a day

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

On 2019-09-29 at 3:43 AM, (PS4)crashteddy03 said:

I also suspect that mods weren't taking effect as I had Enemy Sense, Stealth Drift and Vigilante Pursuit equipped and I could see an enemy on a platform just below me yet they were not showing up on the radar.

 

For the record, loot and enemy radar were designed either by someone incomprehensibly short-sighted or by someone using a genuinely amateur-hour game engine.  Or both.  Despite it being mentioned literally nowhere in the game, they operate based on a squashed cylinder, not a globe of detection.  You can have over 170m of horizontal loot radar, yet both loot and enemy radar have a max vertical range of I think 12m from your warframe.

[MandySeley]

Is there still no DE reply to this?

I'm also stuck at the MR9 test. I've read the guides, every topic on it, I've new frames/weapons/whatever (the ones people insist make this test "easy") building in my foundry to try them when I feel up to it again _{(don't need any more advice, thanks)}

The point isn't whether or not it's possible to clear it, the point is this test is a huge jump in difficulty compared to other MR tests so far. I'd call myself a casual player, but the tests still generally only take a few practice rounds to get right - they certainly never required me to source/build/practice with specific warframes or weapons just to slightly increase my chances. My SO (who cleared it easily, a long time ago) gave it another go and even he struggled with it this time around.

Is it even a bug, or is this some new intentional gameplay "wall?"

[JayD.VO]

I have been stuck on this test for over 2 months and i have almost completely stopped playing warframe for other games. I love this game because of the casual fun gameplay, but this test is nearly impossible. I have tried every strategy but I just cant do it

[Totally_Not_A_Skeleton]

The test is awful until you realize that there is no randomness to it (unless the game bugs out). Then it's all about finding a quick and efficient path. The more you wait around, the more difficult it's going to be since the AI patterns get really funky the more time goes on. This video has a very good strategy for the third area (which most have trouble with). After you have a route for each area, just practice practice practice.

I recommend using a weapon with good range and a fast attack. Skiajati worked really well because of its horizontal slash (I was using Lesion with Shimmering Blight initially, but the vertical angle of the running attack made it easy to miss). I don't know how much HP the enemies had so I threw on some damage mods just in case. For frame modding, just use a fast frame with some sprint speed mods (I don't recommend Mobilize/bullet jump mods because that makes it easy to overshoot jumps and get yourself caught).

Here's my route for anybody having trouble. The run takes around 1:40 or so if you don't mess up. Please, uh, don't mind the mistake I made in the second part. Ideally you hit that dude, get the guy going down the ramp, then continue as the video does.

Also, you don't need to build any specific frames or weapons for this. Just a frame with good sprinting speed + sprinting mods and a weapon with reach and attack speed.

[dingo-saurus]

bumping this as it's still a huge problem and the above solutions are near impossible if you have to play with a controller, as the speed and precision needed are even more difficult :< this is absurdly hard for a lvl 9 rank test, folks are only just starting to get into the game at this point